Podcast Summary: The Next Level – "All the Fascist's Men"

Release Date: October 23, 2024
Host/Authors: Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, Jonathan V. Last (JVL) – The Bulwark

Introduction: Unveiling the Bombshell Story

The episode kicks off with Jonathan V. Last (JVL) introducing a groundbreaking story by Jeff Goldberg published in The Atlantic. The article scrutinizes former President Donald Trump's controversial actions and includes new revelations from John Kelly, Trump's former Chief of Staff. JVL sets the stage for a deep dive into the potential ramifications of this exposé on the upcoming election.

JVL [00:03]: "...this should be a bombshell. It should destroy the Trump campaign. It should cause Kamala Harris to wind up with 55% of the vote."

Sarah Longwell’s Analysis: The Gravity of the Revelation

Sarah Longwell delves into the significance of Goldberg's findings, emphasizing that the revelations about Trump and Kelly could be more impactful than a typical "October Surprise." She highlights the collective weight of credible sources who deem Trump unfit for office, drawing parallels to widespread sexual assault allegations to underscore the credibility of the claims.

Sarah Longwell [00:49]: "...this is peak gaslighting time, where they come for us to try to isolate the individual and say there's something wrong with the individual story... General Kelly is not alone, not by a long shot."

Sarah argues that the media has a responsibility to amplify these findings beyond fleeting news cycles, ensuring that the information reaches and resonates with the American public rather than being diluted or dismissed by Trump defenders.

Tim Miller’s Insights: The Substantive Threat of Trump’s Rhetoric

Tim Miller complements Sarah’s analysis by focusing on the substantive threats posed by Trump’s rhetoric and intentions. He discusses Trump’s admiration for authoritarian military leaders and his disdain for generals who show restraint, painting a picture of a leader who desires unchallenged loyalty from the military.

Tim Miller [06:35]: "...what he wants is generals that will do whatever he says, that will go after his enemies. And he wants that in the second term."

Tim emphasizes the danger of Trump potentially executing authoritarian measures in a second term, especially as he ages and becomes more insulated. He references a conversation with Jeffrey Goldberg, who conveyed that many officials fear Trump’s propensity for authoritarianism is genuine and imminent.

Media’s Role and Campaign Strategies: Bridging the Gap

Sarah Longwell critiques the media’s approach to disseminating these critical revelations, arguing that elite media channels may not effectively reach the Trump-supporting base who distrust traditional media outlets. She advocates for direct communication methods, such as press conferences, where credible figures like John Kelly can address the nation unfiltered.

Sarah Longwell [04:55]: "...if Kelly, who was the chief of staff, who's like a very respected general, led the charge, that is something people can see your eyes, man."

Conversely, Tim Miller suggests utilizing paid media campaigns to broadcast these revelations directly to voters, particularly in swing states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. He acknowledges the substantial resources required but views it as a necessary investment to counteract Trump’s messaging.

Tim Miller [29:03]: "...they think he's Hitler. Now, there is no. They pretend like there is some higher minded way to be anti Trump."

Surrogates and Endorsements: The Power and Limitations

The discussion shifts to the role of celebrity surrogates and endorsements in swaying voter opinions. Sarah and Tim debate the effectiveness of high-profile endorsements from figures like Eminem and the Insane Clown Posse, questioning their impact compared to Trump’s own media-savvy persona.

Sarah Longwell [43:51]: "...the idea that surrogates can be decisive now is... maybe young men notice that Eminem is doing it, but also like Eminem, I don't know, is he like, he's like old now."

Tim adds that while surrogates can influence certain demographics, Trump’s unique celebrity status and direct engagement with his base make his influence exceptionally potent.

Tim Miller [44:50]: "...having surrogates out there that could conceivably reach people that are like, I literally don't know who any of these people are or what you're talking about."

Election Dynamics and Swing Voters: A Precarious Path

Sarah provides an in-depth look into the current state of swing voters, particularly focusing on those who previously supported Trump but are now wavering due to recent events like January 6th. She highlights the challenge Kamala Harris faces in retaining these voters while also addressing new voter groups influenced by the recent revelations.

Sarah Longwell [53:37]: "...what we're trying to figure out, does that coalition hang together? Right, because they made up the margins in 2020."

Tim echoes these concerns, expressing anxiety over Kamala Harris needing to secure narrow victories in critical states to amass the necessary electoral votes. He reflects on past electoral miscalculations but remains cautiously optimistic about certain voter demographics, particularly non-college educated women.

Tim Miller [55:02]: "...they put the coalition back together and so that's good for her. But in almost every group, you're losing one or two people back to Trump."

Conclusion: Reflecting on the Election’s High Stakes

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts reflect on the uncertain trajectory of the election. Tim conveys a sense of urgency and concern over the narrow paths to victory and the potential for Trump to secure a second term despite the mounting evidence against him. Sarah underscores the importance of maintaining focus on substantive issues rather than getting sidetracked by partisan bickering.

Tim Miller [50:35]: "...my only thing that I can say is that I believe... non college white women specifically. But I think black women turnout is going to be as big as we've ever seen it."

The hosts express a shared commitment to ensuring that the American electorate is fully informed about the existential threats posed by Trump’s potential presidency, advocating for strategic communication and unwavering vigilance in the final stretch of the campaign.

Notable Quotes

• Sarah Longwell [00:49]: "...this is peak gaslighting time, where they come for us to try to isolate the individual and say there's something wrong with the individual story."

• Tim Miller [06:35]: "...what he wants is generals that will do whatever he says, that will go after his enemies."

• Sarah Longwell [04:55]: "...if Kelly, who was the chief of staff, who's like a very respected general, led the charge, that is something people can see your eyes, man."

• Tim Miller [29:03]: "...they think he's Hitler. Now, there is no."

• Sarah Longwell [53:37]: "...does that coalition hang together? Right, because they made up the margins in 2020."

• Tim Miller [55:02]: "...I believe black women turnout is going to be as big as we've ever seen it."

Final Thoughts

In "All the Fascist's Men," The Next Level podcast delivers a compelling and urgent discussion on the potential downfall of Donald Trump’s campaign through credible allegations and strategic communication challenges. The hosts provide insightful analysis on media effectiveness, campaign strategies, and the intricate dynamics of voter behavior, emphasizing the critical importance of informed and decisive action in the final days leading up to the election.