Da Bomb Threat Beyond Insanity

Summary

The Next Level Podcast: “Da Bomb Threat Beyond Insanity”

Release Date: February 26, 2025

In the episode titled “Da Bomb Threat Beyond Insanity,” hosts Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, and Jonathan V. Last delve deep into the tumultuous political landscape, dissecting recent budget dramas, internal Republican conflicts, media manipulations, and emerging threats to democratic institutions. This comprehensive discussion offers listeners a nuanced understanding of current political maneuvers and their broader implications.

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1. The Turbulent Budget Vote and Republican Reconciliation Agenda

The episode kicks off with the trio unpacking the contentious budget vote that unfolded the previous night. Jonathan V. Last (JVL) expresses confusion over the importance and intricacies of the budget, prompting Sarah Longwell to provide a detailed explanation.

[00:24] Tim Miller: “I hope it's 10.”

[00:26] Sarah Longwell: “This budget has no force of law. It only gives the House Republicans a framework to pursue their reconciliation agenda, essentially outlining proposed cuts and tax plans without binding legislation.”

Sarah clarifies that the budget sets the stage for future government funding plans and tax proposals, emphasizing substantial cuts labeled under broad categories like HHS, which many interpret as Medicaid reductions. She highlights the internal Republican struggle between those seeking aggressive cuts and moderates concerned about the political fallout, especially regarding Medicaid's impact on their constituencies.

Massie emerges as a pivotal figure, the sole Republican dissenting against the budget due to its projected increase in national debt, underscoring the lack of concrete plans to address fiscal responsibility beyond the proposed cuts.

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2. Internal Republican Discord and Strategic Voting

Tim Miller and Sarah discuss the precarious nature of securing the necessary votes within the Republican caucus. They touch upon the strategic maneuvers, including pulling votes at the last minute through intensive lobbying efforts.

[01:49] Tim Miller: “Is the wrangler who think it's not enough, who think like right now the framework doesn't include enough cuts?”

Sarah elaborates on the thin majority that allowed the budget to pass, noting the tension between "budget hawks" and those prioritizing tax cuts, reflecting broader ideological splits within the party.

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3. Hypothetical Strategies: Targeting Medicaid and Data Utilization

JVL introduces a provocative idea aimed at addressing Medicaid cuts more selectively.

[04:53] JVL: “Can't they only cut Medicaid benefits for Democratic voters? Can they be targeted Medicaid cuts?”

Sarah and Tim discuss the political and ethical ramifications of such targeted cuts, debating the feasibility and potential backlash. They consider Elon Musk's data-centric approach, suggesting that advanced data analytics could, in theory, enable more precise policy implementations, though they acknowledge significant legal and moral barriers.

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4. Media Manipulation: Changes to the White House Press Pool

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the White House’s recent decision to overhaul the traditional White House Correspondents Association.

[13:12] Sarah Longwell: “They’ve kicked out HuffPost and Reuters today and subbed in Axios.”

The hosts critique the White House’s attempt to control media narratives by limiting the press pool to selected outlets, arguing that such moves undermine journalistic independence and transparency. They foresee long-term detrimental effects on media diversity and accountability.

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5. Government Overreach: Targeting Covington & Burling

Sarah brings attention to the White House’s aggressive stance against the prestigious law firm Covington & Burling.

[15:18] Sarah Longwell: “The White House is pulling security clearances from lawyers at Covington & Burling, directly targeting those representing critics like Jack Smith.”

The hosts liken these actions to authoritarian tactics reminiscent of oppressive regimes, suggesting that this marks a troubling trend of using government power to economically harm political adversaries. They discuss the broader implications for legal representation and the rule of law, emphasizing the erosion of constitutional safeguards.

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6. Real-World Impacts: Conference Bomb Threats and Civic Resilience

The conversation shifts to a recent conference attended by the hosts, where a bomb threat disrupted proceedings.

[44:37] Sarah Longwell: “We ended up having to hold a press conference to explain what had happened.”

They recount the incident involving Enrique Tarrio and members of the January 6th cohort, highlighting the continuous harassment faced by Capitol Police officers. Despite the threats, attendees exhibited remarkable composure and resilience, reinforcing the importance of steadfastness in civic spaces amidst attempts to instill fear and disrupt democratic dialogue.

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7. Social Media Fallout: Federal Contracting and Trump Supporters

JVL presents a series of social media posts from Trump supporters adversely affected by the current administration’s contracting policies.

[48:54] Sarah Longwell: “Give me more. I want more.”

JVL reads fabricated posts where Trump supporters lament losing federal contracts, some attributing these losses to anti-DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) stances. The hosts discuss the psychological and political motivations behind these sentiments, debating whether such tactics aim to marginalize dissenting voices and consolidate power within the Republican base.

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8. Tech Bros and the Push for Authoritarianism

Sarah introduces an analysis based on JBL’s article discussing the inclination of tech elites towards authoritarianism.

[54:19] Sarah Longwell: “JBL's article on why tech bros want authoritarianism is so good. They want to steal all your information to create an AI supercomputer.”

The hosts explore the motivations behind tech moguls' desires for centralized control, linking it to competitive races for technological supremacy and data acquisition. They frame this as a strategic move to undermine individual autonomy, advocating for a small cadre to make decisions on behalf of the masses, thereby eroding democratic principles.

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9. Reflections on Republican Party Loyalty and Integrity

The episode concludes with introspective conversations about the unwavering loyalty within the Republican Party, despite escalating internal conflicts and ethical dilemmas.

[35:14] Tim Miller: “It's now morally not okay to remain a Republican.”

Sarah and JVL lament the lack of party members defecting in response to the party’s drift towards authoritarianism and punitive measures against dissenters. They reflect on historical precedents of party switching and express concern over the current resistance to abandoning a platform that increasingly diverges from democratic ideals.

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Conclusion: Upholding Democratic Values Amidst Rising Threats

Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize the critical need for vigilance and proactive measures to preserve democratic institutions and integrity. From scrutinizing budgetary policies and media manipulations to confronting authoritarian tendencies within both political and technological spheres, “Da Bomb Threat Beyond Insanity” serves as a clarion call for sustained commitment to democratic principles and the rule of law.

The discussion not only highlights immediate political challenges but also underscores the long-term implications of unchecked power and the erosion of institutional safeguards. For listeners unequipped with the episode’s full content, this summary encapsulates the essence of a fervent debate on safeguarding democracy in an era of deepening political polarization and institutional fragility.

Transcript

[JVL]

Hello, everyone. It's JVL here with my best friends Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller of the Bulwark Guys. We had a big budget vote last night with lots of drama and I don't understand it at all. I don't understand why it's important or what's going on. Can one of you explain this to me? Because this wasn't the budget.

[Tim Miller]

I hope it's 10.

[Sarah Longwell]

Was Sarah not awake during our prep meeting? Okay, neither of you guys wanted to talk about this. I got it, I got it. I'll just carry everybody on this one. Here is. I think why this matters is. Well, it is important to say that this budget because I saw a lot of people getting this wrong on the Internet yesterday. This budget has no force of law. It does not do anything. Actually, it only allows. It only gives the House Republicans now a framework with which to pursue their reconciliation agenda. So not to be too dorky, but essentially what it does is like here is our framework, right? Which is we're going to cut X amount. This is why people are focused on the Medicaid, because it doesn't actually say you're going to cut Medicaid, but it says you're going to cut 808-900-billion. Under the HHS rubric. Everybody assumes that ends up being Medicaid. We're going to cut taxes x amount 3.5 trillion. You know what I mean? So that is what it does. It sets up the framework for the budget for then, you know what the government funding plan and the tax plan and conciliation bill that they're actually going to put forward. And so, you know, I mean, I think that there is some important fighting going on, right? Because there are going to be some Republicans who are like, I don't actually care that much about these cuts. I just want the tax cuts. There's some that like, are like, I'm still a budget hawk. There's Chip Roy, right? So like that is the.

[Tim Miller]

Is the wrangle who think it's not enough, who think like right now the framework doesn't include enough cuts, enough cuts, Right, Right.

[Sarah Longwell]

So that is what all the haggling was over, right? And Massie, the one Republican that ends up voting against it is just like this adds trillions to the debt, right? And so that's why he votes against it. And so, and then there are people on the other side, as always, like the moderates, you want to call it the non ideological maga rightists, the ones who like actually want to be responsive to their Constituents who are like, I have a lot of people on Medicaid in my debt. So it's not so much that they're moderate, but they're like, I'm a little concerned about these cuts because they have a lot of people on Medicaid in my district. And so that is the gist. And to me, the interesting thing is that this, given the fact that this had no force of law, that my frenemy, my enemy, I guess, actually Josh Holmes, who's McConnell's old guy, formerly frenemy, downgraded to enemy, he posted, he's like, what are you guys doing? This is just a shirts and skins vote. You should just vote for it. Because it's like, work out the details later. And I think the interesting thing about his point is that, like, yeah, this should have been the easiest vote, right? And he ekes it out by the skin of his teeth by one vote. He has to. He didn't think he had the votes at first. He had to pull it down. And then they twisted a couple of arms and they like sent people home and they called them while they're in their Ubers. They're like, turn the Uber around, come back. We do have the votes now. It's like the fact that it was that much of a shit show to just get this unenforceable budget through, I think does not augur very optimistically for their ability to keep the budget open, actually pass a reconciliation bill, etc. Etc.

[Tim Miller]

To be clear, in my defense, I did know most of that.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

I thought, I thought. So here's the thing. No, no, no. So that what I didn't know was exactly what happened last night. So I was following it in the slack and I knew they pulled the vote and had to come back and like voted. And eventually it passed. So I didn't quite follow the drama of the evening.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, right. Basically. And the simple just thing on that is like, so Massey is the one vote. They can only lose two eventually when all of the people come back in, they might be able to lose three at some point in the future. But Massey is the one that's a no. And then there were three others. There's a Victoria Spartz lady who is from Indiana who seems like insane and I don't know if English is her first language. And she was saying that she wasn't going to vote for it and then changed her mind. And then Tim Burchett, who was one of the guys that overthrew McCarthy, who's saying that he was going to Prey on it. So he couldn't. So Mike Johnson didn't know how to whip him because he was going to pray, he was going to talk to God about it. And then there was another guy from Ohio. And so it was like there were kind of three stragglers that we're dealing with.

[Tim Miller]

I'm surprised Mike Johnson didn't just say, our God has already spoken.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, right.

[Tim Miller]

He wants you to pass this budget.

[JVL]

So this is why Lee Stefanik can't be the ambassador to the U.N. right. Okay, question, question. Because I think that I have, I've got a way for Republicans to cut the Gordian knot on the Medicaid cuts.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay.

[JVL]

Can't they only cut Medicaid benefits for Democratic voters? Can they be targeted Medicaid cuts? And before you tell me no, I want you to explain to me how the force of law would actually prohibit that in 2025America.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, well, this is where Elon getting into all the data creates a really, a different place for us because normally you sort of couldn't do that, but now, now they have all that info. They know everybody's voting behavior and so they could actually do it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right. Well, I think one of the main problems there is not legal, but political. They've convinced themselves, the Republicans, that now they've made big inroads with black and Hispanic working class voters. And so the easiest way to do this, what you're talking about, would be to just cut Medicaid, I guess in like black neighborhoods or in black. In states that have a place that's.

[JVL]

Like more than D plus.

[Tim Miller]

You go to the, you go to the voting rolls, you'd cross reference them with the people who are on Medicaid.

[Sarah Longwell]

A lot of people that are Democrats voting MAGA voters though, if you're in.

[JVL]

A, you're, if you're in a D + 20 district, that district is not going to get Medicaid.

[Sarah Longwell]

We are not quite in Russia. You can see who you voted for.

[Tim Miller]

To be fair. To be fair. I don't know why I'm leaning into JVL's scenario because I also obviously agree with that in reality that like we're not quite there yet, but we're also like not, not never getting there. I gotta say, Kara Swisher, when she's on the pod doing the focus group pod, I like have now run down many of the things that she's. She did change the framework for how. I was thinking about a lot of things by.

[JVL]

Oh, great. So Kara says all the stuff I've been Saying for months, and you're suddenly like, boy, you know, she's got a good point.

[Tim Miller]

Stop yourself.

[JVL]

She's a tiny lesbian. So I will listen to her.

[Tim Miller]

There's some, there's some validity in that. Like, yes, sorry, the musings of, like, straight men don't always, like, land and then like, sear fair. Hold on. First of all, I have never heard you say this particular thing, or if you've said it, you've never said it this succinctly, but her point about, like, Elon competing on AI, the way for him to win with Sam Altman and the competition on AI. And I only know this actually from listening to another podcast of theirs because I don't follow the tech news. But if you go down back through the intrigue of Elon and Sam Altman and how he was originally with their company and didn't want it to be a nonprofit, and they got in a fight because he wanted it to be a for profit. And so he took his ball and went home. And so now he's got his competing AI stuff. And how the number one thing that he wants is all the data. He wants all the data from the government. And the reason that I think this landed so hard, not just as a point, but in thinking about everything they're doing now, not only does he have access to all the data and like, we have no. Are they uploading it all into a cloud? Like, what are they? What's the tech? How would we stop them? How do the people in the government have any idea? What are they bringing in big, you know, things that they're downloading the data onto?

[JVL]

Maybe five and a quarter inch floppy disks. Yeah, it's all, it's all in five and a quarter inch floppies.

[Sarah Longwell]

All ball bearings these days.

[Tim Miller]

And then, and then think about that. And then, and then she didn't even talk as much about this. But if you start going down, like, her path, all of the places that regulate his companies, right, and all of his competitors, they have all the government has, all the information. The, like, what's in Coke information for all of these companies because they've done investigations into them, whatever. And so Elon can go get all the information. Like, if you're him, would it not be very helpful to be able to go and see what your AI competitors have done, what patents they fought, all of that. So, like, the amount of information he now, like, I guess I hadn't. And you show me, Mr. Jvl, the Jvl. You show me where you've done You've made that exact point.

[JVL]

I mean, I'm sure it was in one of the newsletters you didn't read. I. But here, I mean, so I want to use this to segue to. When you say, like, hey, we're not in. We're not in Russia yet. Two things.

[Sarah Longwell]

I was just making a narrow factual point about the fact that you cannot see who people voted for. You can look at where you're registered and which primary you voted in. But we are not. Like, it is not. That's not an available piece of information to AI.

[JVL]

However, when you cross reference that on top of, say, all the stuff that Google Pixel or the Facebook algorithm gets from you, you can build a fairly accurate picture.

[Tim Miller]

I feel like right now we're just giving them ideas.

[JVL]

Wait, can we.

[Tim Miller]

But just. Can we go back to the budget fight? Sorry for.

[JVL]

Yeah, sure.

[Tim Miller]

Because I want to do a little bit on Massie, who Massey sometimes for me is like, worst person in the world. Makes a decent point.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And it's because the thing I, I hear this from voters a lot. Republicans do this a lot. And frankly, I'm sensitive to it because of all of the things that I think really pushed me into the Republican camp is that I was a debt and deficit hawk. I was always like, we cannot spend like this. Our debt is with China. This is a national security risk. And the, the idea too, it's always just sort of offended me is from a common sense standpoint of we should not let our debt get this high, we should pay for our debt, we should set a budget. Like that idea of like an American family, you have to set a budget. And granted, sure, the, the, the American government is big and complex, but like, we are at a very dangerous level of debt. And the thing that Massey is saying that is true, you cannot, cannot without making some of the cuts, but you cannot cut taxes. You cannot cut taxes. And then. And even. And then you're not going to be able to offset it with the spending program and get anywhere on the debt. Like if you do a tax cut. And this is where Trump, Trump added so much to the debt and voters don't. I'll never forget, more than any president in history, more than any president history, he added to the debt. And so like, they do not at all have a plan right now to cut real stuff out of it. Right. And so Massie's point of it does, like, he is correct for them to do any of the things they say they're going to do. He's correct.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. I mean, What Massie wants is like, to end Medicare and Medicaid, a solution to it.

[Tim Miller]

I don't agree with him on that point exactly.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right, yeah, yeah. But no, his critique is right. I mean, like, the, the night, like, even the MAGA economists, like the fake MAGA economists are like, this plan is only going to increase the debt by 1 trillion. Like, that's like their pitch, right? When it's like the real numbers are like 4 or 5 trillion. Right. Like so, you know, I mean, that's just like the actual state of play.

[JVL]

It's not only that Trump doesn't have a plan to reduce the debt. They have no interest in it. Like, it isn't like, you know, they've.

[Tim Miller]

Been talking about reducing our debt. Now we can just sell all of our debt to Russia and they can own it.

[JVL]

Potential partnerships that we can have with them now.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's great.

[Sarah Longwell]

Rare earth minerals, though, might pay off the debt. It's hard to know how many rare earths.

[JVL]

Maybe the tariffs, maybe our big, beautiful tariffs will pay off the debt. Right. And the rare earth minerals from Ukraine that we take from them. All right, so listen, we got to move on because we got a heart out today on the subject of Russia. We had two things yesterday. First, the Trump administration announced that they will now decide who covers the White House in the White House press Pool. For 129 years, it has been the White House Correspondents association, which maybe not 129 years, it's been. It's been a long time. I forget the actual number. Please don't hold me to 129 years. Although that may be correct.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's been 117 years that we've had a deputy director of the FBI who was an FBI agent.

[JVL]

Maybe that's. Maybe that's what I'm thinking.

[Sarah Longwell]

So there are a lot of things over 100 year tradition breaking, and this is.

[JVL]

It seems like a bad thing to have the White House just deciding who gets to be the pool. And if, if our media institutions had any balls, they would simply all say, well, screw that. We're not showing up to cover anything at the White House until you guys stop this malarkey. That's not.

[Sarah Longwell]

And it's starting today. They've kicked out HuffPost and Reuters today.

[JVL]

And they, they subbed in Axios. And of course, this is how it's.

[Tim Miller]

All right.

[JVL]

They start out. Like, well, what's wrong with Axios? You think Axios is bad? Right, Right. And so that, you know, six months from now, when it's oan right in there.

[Sarah Longwell]

Matt Gates is the polar.

[JVL]

Right. So I don't know, do you guys have some thoughts about this? Because this plus the Covington and Burling thing, which we'll, we'll talk in a minute, does strike me as Moscow level stuff. And maybe. You know what, let me just set the table with Covington Burling. The other thing that happened yesterday is that the White House announced that they were going after the law firm of Covington and Berling. This is a very big DC White shoe firm. They are, the White House is pulling security clearances from a bunch of lawyers who work there, which is, is all about actually hurting their, their personal economics. Right. Because you lose your security clearance, you lose your ability to work on cases. And, and they are also pulling government contracts wherever they can with Covington and Burling. Why? Because Covington and Burling is representing Jack Smith in, in his litigation. And, and so the White House is making it clear that if you agree to serve as counsel for somebody they don't like, they will attack your business with the full force of government. So those two things both actually do seem like Moscow stuff. Am I wrong, Sarah?

[Tim Miller]

No, you're right. And honestly, there's been a lot of these piling up. You know, I wouldn't this Edward R. Martin Jr. Eagle Ed. Eagle Ed, who is a United States attorney here in D.C. he tweeted as President Trump's and he put the apostrophe in the wrong place as though Trump is plural as there, there are many Trumps. As President Trump's lawyers, we are proud to fight to protect his leadership as our president. And we are vigilant in standing against entities like the AP that refuse to put America first. So the, they are standing strong against a publication that is refusing to what would put America first? What does that mean?

[Sarah Longwell]

Say the Gulf of America?

[Tim Miller]

Well, I know what it means, but I mean in general, like if we are now saying we are standing against people who fail to put America first, it's sort of like Trump shouting at Janet Meek Mills of Maine. We are the federal law now. So I, when you add all of these up, like any individual instance, because there were individual instances in the first term that we were like, this is outside the rule of law. This is the kind of, this is, you know, this is why we're talking about fascism, because they're doing a couple moves but like they sort of were these one offs in a way that now they're piling up in ways that feel like in the aggregate now, like.

[JVL]

We, we're Only five weeks in.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, no, like they, it's only been five weeks. Jbl, I'm, I'm with you. Like we are in some. Legitimately I agree with Tim. We are not Russia yet. And I think we should use the fact that we're not Russia yet to fight back as hard as we can so that we don't become Russia. At the same time, I do not think we should be blind to how serious all of this is.

[JVL]

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[Sarah Longwell]

The Covington Burling thing I think is particularly interesting and like because it's complicated and because the quote unquote victims are like the least Sympathetic people in the world, like rich lawyers. You know, it's, I think it's easy for this to kind of get washed over because I don't, you know, it's not something that the Democrats can use with effect politically like the firing of veterans at the VA or whatever. But just in the context of like protecting the constitutional republic, I get really important, I get, I think like more important than even the pool thing. I can then some of this other stuff because like you said jbl, I mean it is the government going after political foes economically. Like that's what this is, right? It's like this, this, this law firm is representing somebody that I perceive to be a political foe because he was investigating me using the rule of law, even though, you know, it's not like he's a Democrat. But. And so we're going to go after that firm. And so that is, you know, again, Eastern European type behavior, banana republic type behavior. But then on top of that, there's like the demand side of this too. It also prevents people from getting the type of representation that they need. Right. Because if you're stripping lawyers, there are only so many lawyers that have classified clearance, that have security clearances, that can go and do these high level cases. And so you're limiting that pool of lawyers, limiting the ability to get good representation. If you are somebody that gets what lawyer's gonna take the case.

[JVL]

If you're Liz Cheney and you wind up in the government's crosshairs, who, who is going to take your case knowing that it could mean the loss of their ability to practice the kind of law they practice.

[Sarah Longwell]

Correct. And Lila's Cheney thing is probably, you know, she'll be able to find somebody because like, you know, there'll be some side benefits to that. Like what about random FBI official that was part of the investigation into Russiagate 1.0 or whatever, you know, and like there was some story. I don't know if people would have seen this because it's like, like this is, you remember Men in Black were like, they're like, you've got to read the tabloids to get the real news. Like sometimes you've got to like read the MAGA outlets to get the real news. But like there's a Washington Times article yesterday that was like, they're looking into a Jim Comey honeypot scheme from 2016. And it's like, who the fuck even knows what they're talking about? And like, you know, this some random reporters, probably friends with Dan Bongino, popping off, but like okay, let's say they open some investigation into some deputy. Deputy. Of Jim Comey, but it was a classified investigation that they were doing into Russia activities, into Papadopoulos or whatever, all these characters from Trump 1.0. Who's gonna.

[Tim Miller]

Take that case that's not about Papadopoulos.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. Who's gonna take that case? Right. Cause there's no. That person isn't gonna have that much money, probably. There's no upside. You know, there's no sheen of Liz Cheney type respect. So. Yeah, I mean, I just think it's super alarming from that. From that perspective.

[JVL]

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know that there's any way to stop it. Right. That's the. That's the other thing. Like, what's the recourse?

[Tim Miller]

Well, I mean, the recourse is. And this is so just. Yeah. Is a. That the judges stand up on some of this, which I think we've seen a lot of evidence that they're willing to do in many cases. And then also, I mean, look, I don't know. This is going back to the ap, but there needs to be some of these, like, I am Spartacus moments here, guys. Like. And so let's say you're the Washington Post. I understand if you think, well, if all of the legitimate publications refuse to cover the pool, that's just gonna be all Newsmax and everything else. But Donald Trump does care about the New York Times coverage, whatever. And they should at least try. They should try to all say, all right, you're gonna. If you're gonna set the pool. None of us are participating in the pool.

[JVL]

That's what they should do.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right. So that's just a question for, like, Axios today. Like, what should Axios do?

[JVL]

Axios should say, absolutely not. It's not. It's not tough at all. It's the easiest thing in the world. It's the easiest thing in the world. And the. For the. For the law firms, the only recourse. Because I actually don't think that the court. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe a lawyer friend will correct me here. I don't believe that anybody has standing to stop the government from pulling security clearances. I don't think that you can file a suit about that. I don't think that some judge could find against the government and force them to issue a security clearance. I think the only answer is a bunch of prestigious law firms are going to have to lose money because of this stuff and be willing to lose money. And they're going to have to say, yeah, we're going to take these cases. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. And. And that's what the media is going to have to do, too, and say, yeah, well, may would maybe hurt us to not have access on that. Yeah, it might. And we don't care. And I'm sorry, but, like, people need to start accepting pain, this idea that we're going to get out of this without ever having to give up anything. And maybe that's why, like, we started this whole journey that way. And so we are a little more. A little more acclimated to pain. But it does drive me a little crazy that people seem to think that there is some. Some way out of this, that if we were only clever enough, we could all figure out a way out of this that doesn't hurt. And I just don't think that that's the case.

[Tim Miller]

Can I just tell you guys, I was reading. There's like this guy's substack. Somebody sent it to me. And he had written this long thing about the Ku Klux klan in the 20s and how culturally dominant they were, how all the judges and the cops in lots of places in. You didn't know because they wore the hoods, but, like, you knew who the clan was.

[JVL]

This John Ganz was this.

[Tim Miller]

No, it actually was. But there was this guy at the time, he owned his. He owned his own little newspaper and he just kept pounding at them. He would name names and they kept throwing him in jail and they kept trying to sue him and take his money and the. The Klan judges would. Would throw him in and like, eventually he had to. He had to leave, but then he came back anyway. Every day he fought. And by the 30s, they had changed enough people's minds. But it was like such a. It was like the Klan would march through the streets and like, it'd be six deep of people out there to cheer them on. And they were so. They owned all the institutions. And you were. This is. And I've brought this up before that, like, if you start. If you take a historical lens, it can help for me to think about, like, we have been in really bad places where people have been. And it wasn't just. It was like the Klan was also there against immigrants, against Catholics, against Jews, as well as obviously black people. And so like. But. And they had a lot of support and they controlled institutions and they were eventually pushed out. Right. Eventually they lost power, but they were in Congress. They were everywhere. And so. And. But the story is really about this guy who stood up and Just like, But he, he did suffer pain. They bankrupted him. And like, I'm. That is very much. And I do wonder, I wonder what has to happen before people get to the point where they're like. Because we keep kind of being shocked. Like there was that, that, that, that thing that came out from the district attorney and in D.C. everybody was like, everybody noticed the bad apostrophe. But also like, what are you saying? Like, your job, that is not your job. You are not the President's personal attorney. What is happening? But it's just like Trump's Napoleon quotation about how, like, you know, it's all right if I do it because I'm saving the country. Like, we're in a really bad place. And at some point, I don't know what the place is where people are finally going to fight back, but I think we should already be there. And I think in the institutions like the press pool and in the law firms, people are going to have to say like, no, I refuse. That's it. People are going to have to refuse to do it as long as they feel like people will go along. That's the problem.

[Sarah Longwell]

We've seen some of that already at the doj. It's funny, it's like, it's like, oh, it's like what, six, seven people have quit already for being told to do illegal actions. Then we have the woman, I guess that's the administrator of Doge. There's like some work that. You see this yesterday there's this big legal question and Ben Wittes at law firm has been obsessed with this. So for people want to know the backstory. I did that with us interview yesterday. But like for legal reasons, DOGE has to have like a person that is administratively in charge because a special advisor to the president cannot legally like fire people. Right. Just for arcane legal reasons. So they kept asking like judges kept asking Anna Ballard. Lawfare kept asking reporters kept asking, who is the administrator? Who is the person that is doing this? And yesterday they were like, they announced this woman's name and it's like Kathy Jones. She works from home in Tennessee. She was in the mid level person in the Obama administration. And it's like, really? No, Elon isn't in charge. It's this, it's this lady that is. Does not that she. Is she really the one telling big balls what to do? I mean there's a lot of, there's a lot of Mod Bailey happening over.

[JVL]

Here kind of a problem. And again, I like the Susan Collins is of the world who were like, we. There must be a way out of this without me losing my seat or something. Like, no, well, this is. The way out of this is that people have to. People have to get hurt.

[Tim Miller]

Hurt how? I'm sorry, are you not a senator anymore? Is it not worth it to use Susan Collins to be a hero for the Republic, to stand up for. For something real? And, like, this is the thing that I will never understand about any of them. Is your Senate seat that precious? You're in your 70s. You've done your time. Like, go do the right thing. And, like, you know what? And it's like, what's the pain of that? She loses her Senate seat and she, like, goes, you're a millionaire. Yeah. Like, yeah, don't. Don't tell me that's real pain. That's. Anyway, sorry. That was my reaction.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, I agree with that. And just, you know, because we care about facts here. It's Amy Gleason, who's the administrator of Doge. She began her career in nursing and then discovered a passion for technology. She is the chief operating officer of Caresync. So we'll keep an eye on Amy. Who's. Who's, I guess the one firing everybody.

[Tim Miller]

So her name's not Patsy.

[Sarah Longwell]

Boom.

[JVL]

Nice. Is Amy gonna show up on the Sunday shows? Is she gonna be a guest on the Sunday shows this weekend?

[Sarah Longwell]

We'll find out.

[Tim Miller]

Seat backstage. Where was she?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, she's. We. The other thing about these senators, at least Susan Collins voted against some of these people. On Nicole. They were playing these clips from the Hill. I hadn't seen some of them. And it was like John Curtis from Utah who has emerged from the cave, and John Thune. And Lisa has actually done a couple things, but Murkowski was on there. There's one Attilus, I think, was the fourth one. And it's like, you know, we're hoping that Elon and I guess Amy Gleason are using some empathy. We're hoping they could use a little bit more empathy. Like, I'm directionally with them. We got a cut of fraud and abuse, but, like, we could use a little bit more empathy or humanity. Treat people with dignity. These are all the words that were being used. And I'm like, wait, who do you think is in charge of the government right now? If you want people to be treated with humanity and dignity, then you, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, are going to have to take some power back and demand that people be treated with empathy. Because if you just let Donald Trump and Elon Musk and the vaping bros run roughshod over the government. We know what they're gonna do. So what is even the point of saying, I wish they would use a little empathy. Right. There's no, I guess just to make you feel good. It's like a Republican version of virtue signaling, honestly. Which is the meanest thing that Republicans could say about Democrats. It's like the Republican virtue of virtue signaling. I have some empathy, but.

[JVL]

Okay, then do that. I think it's self soothing. I think it's self soothing. Right. It's not. It's not even about virtue signal like they feel the need to say something.

[Sarah Longwell]

You're right, actually.

[JVL]

And.

[Tim Miller]

There'S also a way in which. So I saw Dan Crenshaw, who we should talk about just like ever so.

[Sarah Longwell]

Briefly because he wants to murder Tucker.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[JVL]

Which feel like if one of us talked that way, it would be a very, very big deal about the end of civility and. How dare you, sir? And like saying that you would actually kill somebody.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, didn't Dan get to go on Saturday Night Live because somebody made a joke about his. Because Pete Davidson made a joke about how he had one eye and then he had. He gave a speech about civility.

[Tim Miller]

Well, I mean, to be fair. To be fair. Like, here's what I like these hot mic moments because it is a reminder. See, Tucker is authentic to who he is, which is like the scummiest scumbag, Russia loving. Well, you're right, Tim. For all we know, he's destroying this for shits and giggles. Like, Tucker's the worst. But Dan Crenshaw, he hates these people and yet, you know, pretends like he's on the team. But the thing about Crenshaw, that was not the Tucker thing. Oh, I saw him doing a clip the other day. He was on one of the Sunday shows and it was. He was saying how, well, President Trump, you know, is smart enough to know that if you abandon Ukraine, whatever. And he's. He was. So he's. He's couching it as like, like this is how they try to manipulate Trump or how they try to manipulate Elon. Like there is. I think it's not just self soothing. I also think they think that their power is now these subtle nudges to be like, well, somebody with your bright mind, Elon, would know that having some empathy here as you do this is very important. And they think what they're doing is like pushing them in the right direction.

[Sarah Longwell]

I got to tell you, the self soothing at least is a psychological thing that I can understand that is sensible. If John Curtis thinks that he's. He's nudging Trump by mentioning that he'd like to see a little bit more empathy. Like, he is too stupid to vote rather than to be in the Senate. Like, we. He is too stupid to, like, exist. Like, how does he wake up in the morning? How does he make himself breakfast if he's dumb enough to think that Donald Trump is going to care about his comments? I don't. I just do.

[Tim Miller]

You know, I do think that they are all, if not dumb, humans. I do think they are insulated and somewhat blind to what is happening to the Republican Party. And I think some of them are, like, just catching up. Like, it's weird. It's like it happened to Mike Pence, but maybe it hadn't happened to them. But it feels like sometimes they're just starting to be like, oh, you know what this is. Because here's the thing. How could they. How could they give Cash Patel? Like, I mean, Murkowski voted for. For rfk. Now, she didn't vote. She voted for rfk. And, you know, I'm a big Murkowski defender over here, but I have been like, what are you guys doing?

[Sarah Longwell]

She's got to preserve some political capital.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you gotta keep your powder dry, guys. Gotta keep that powder dry for. For when it's all over.

[JVL]

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, if not her, like, if she were to lose her spot, the person who replaced her would be really bad. So she has to vote like a really bad person in order to prevent a really bad person from also voting like a really bad person. Yeah, that all makes sense.

[Tim Miller]

Didn't she just win? She, like, has years. Like, how about, yeah, yeah, go be an independent, Lisa Murkowski switch. This is. I'll tell you, of all the things on JBL's world that I've come around to. Like, I have understood intellectually the whole time why one remains Republican. I no longer. But I think, like, we've hit, and I think we hit this line a long time ago, where it is now morally not okay to remain a Republican.

[Sarah Longwell]

It is pretty crazy. I know. This is a. JBL thinks well, this JBL can rub his belly with the JBL is always right thing. But, like, it's pretty astonishing that we're nine years into the Trump era and the only elected officials who have changed parties have been from Democrat to Republican. Like, there's been a single person, not a single. I mean, God love Liz and Adam and all that and whatever. It's not like there's not been a. You know, like, that kind of happened a lot when we were growing up. Like, Ben Nighthorse Campbell switched parties. Jeff. Jeff. Was it Jefferies or Jeffords in Vermont? Jeffords, I think.

[Tim Miller]

Zell Miller in Pennsylvania.

[JVL]

We had our Senate, Harlan Spector.

[Sarah Longwell]

And like, not a single person has been like, you know, I think. I don't know if this party's for me anymore.

[JVL]

The Republican Party's formal position. Well, maybe it's an informal position. Is that Mike Pence should be murdered and Mike Pence can't bring himself to leave the Republican Party.

[Tim Miller]

That's true.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's something.

[JVL]

I mean, what. What is that? Okay, we got to move on because we have.

[Tim Miller]

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[JVL]

Do you guys want to talk a little bit about your big weekend? You guys, you guys went out and met some people and Human beings. And I got to skip it, which was amazing. And then Enrique Tarrio, who is fresh off of being arrested last Friday, let.

[Sarah Longwell]

Out of jail, then arrested, then let.

[JVL]

Out, let out of jail, arrested, released again. Yeah, because he was arrested for assaulting a counter protester. And I. I would say allegedly assaulting a hunter protester. But the arrest was done because the cops were right there watching it. And so it's not like somebody called the cops. And then it was, you know, like a person, you know, the victim. Alleged victims. Word against the alleged defendants. It was the cops watched this thing happen, and we're like, hey, you can't do that, and went and arrested him. And then he showed up to. To your principal first. I. I don't know. Like, let's do some story time, I guess. Do you guys want to tell me what went down or what your feelings were or do. Does this, like, not interest you at all?

[Tim Miller]

No, it's interesting. I actually think it's really important. Okay, so Tim and. Yeah, well, Tim and I were kind of closing the day. The first day. And the first day was. I mean, first of all, the principals. First. I've been to all of them. And in the early days, like, a couple hundred people. And this time it was, like, sold out with a big, long waiting list. And Mark Cuban spoke, and Chris Christie was, like. There was, like, a pretty crazy hodgepodge of people that were. That were there speaking. So it was impressive. It was just, like, an impressive event. But. So Tim and I were closing out the first day, and when we got there, I was, like, kind of running late. We were planning our, you know, much like the show, we were trying to come up with what we were going to talk about five minutes before we were going on. And, like. But while we were kind of in the back, like, backstage waiting the cops, the January 6 cops who had been on a panel. So it was Harry Dunne, it was Michael Fanon, it was Ganel, who received, like, a courage award. Enrique Tarrio and a bunch of the proud boys show up at the front of the conference. And I think some of the backstory here is also, there was a weird thing that happened at cpac. Weird, I don't know, but, like, Matt Schlapp, they had been not allowed into cpac. And then, of course, everybody complained that they weren't allowed into cpac. Like, if you look at match laps, because I've checked it out, just checked it out to see if people were giving him grief over his latest alleged assault.

[Sarah Longwell]

Fondling, pummeling.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, pummeling Penis pummeling situation.

[JVL]

Mr. Banana Grabber. Hi, Heather.

[Tim Miller]

No, that's not what they were mad about. What they were mad about was that the January 6th attackers had not been let into CPAC. And so of course Match Slap reverses course and says, of course these people are welcome at cpac. But it was like always a little hazy maybe if like some of them weren't allowed in or what. Anyway, they decided to come over to the principal's first event and they basically come into the lobby of the hotel and start like trying to get in. And because it is a sold out event, they're like being told, no, I'm sorry, you can't have a ticket. And then. But they're filming, right? They bring cameras so they can put the whole thing on.

[Sarah Longwell]

Did Ivan rain with them? The Magma Marauder. He's like five, three, very scary.

[Tim Miller]

Very scary.

[Sarah Longwell]

Very scary. Five foot two and a half man.

[Tim Miller]

Well, if you actually see. And so like then, so the Harry Dunn and Michael Fanone, I don't know why they did go up. There was like a confrontation then where everybody and like, imagine the bad blood between like. Bad blood's not even, it's like a stupid term because this isn't like a Real Housewives fight. These are, these are the people who attacked the Capitol who like tased Michael Fanon and then who have been harassing him. Right? Like these guys who were the January 6th cops who have been, who have been outspoken about what happened that day and testified in front of the committee. They have been subject to just non stop harassment and their families. And so there was this bad confrontation. And I was backstage with Tim and I was like, are we nervous? Are we nervous about going out on stage right now? People are trying to get into like, fight with everybody. I don't know, Tim. That's, that was the first day. I can get to the second day.

[Sarah Longwell]

But yeah, I don't really have much to add to that. I mean, I, I again, we had security there. Harry Dunn is like 7 foot 3.

[Tim Miller]

He's so big.

[Sarah Longwell]

And so I was figuring I could hide behind him. So I wasn't, I wasn't really nervous at all. And it felt like a stunt. So at some level you hate to give them even attention for it. But you know, because you're, because of your point of like the righteous anger of these guys, of Harry and Michael and Ganelle is like so understandable. I'm gonna talk to Fanon about it later on YouTube, but like, you know, so I felt more, less scared and More like mad for them, you know what I mean? And so, you know, when we went out there, I kind of felt it was more important to hold the line and to like. And to be talking about righteous anger and standing up for ourselves rather than wor. Than. Rather than worry about. Worry about them. And they had already been kicked out by then.

[JVL]

What color shirts were these gentlemen wearing? Were they wearing brown shirts by any. By any chance?

[Sarah Longwell]

Tario was in a very tight D, as I recall. I don't know. It was hard to see Raek when he was so small.

[Tim Miller]

But here's the thing that happened the next day, and this is important. So the next day I wasn't going to the conference, or my plan was not to go. And like, halfway through the day, maybe noonish or something, someone called in a bomb threat to the hotel, and they sent an email, and it included a bunch of very specific pipe bomb threats, including Michael Fanone's mother. And I can't remember who, but they were like, we've put them in this room. And it was like a weird.

[Sarah Longwell]

Bill Crystal was mentioned. Not you or me.

[Tim Miller]

No. Well, it was all boys. It was all men. It was all the girl. We were. We were not on the hit list of.

[Sarah Longwell]

I would say that maybe I was not included because I wasn't, because they don't include gays as men, but they did specifically name another gay person and call him Smash Against Man. I can't say the f. Slur on here because we get demonetized, but it's not because we're woke. But anyway, so it's. I guess maybe I'm just not on their radar.

[Tim Miller]

And so. But here, the thing that. So we ended up having to kind of, like, hold a press conference at the end of the day to sort of explain what had happened. But here's the thing. They evacuated the. The conference, which, you know, it's got a thousand people in it. So everybody's got to go stand for a while.

[Sarah Longwell]

They evacuate the hotel. I was wondering about that, because I had left by then.

[Tim Miller]

No, it was just the. So every. Because it was like they said. They put them, I think, down. There was, like, in the room. And so, like, the mpd. So now everybody's got to come and sweep the place. And I do think there was one room, that hotel room maybe, they said. And they went. They were gonna go. You know, they checked that room pretty quick. Anyway, everybody stayed, like. Everybody just, like, stood around for a while, and then they were like, okay, we're gonna reconvene and Everybody stayed and everyone went back and they finished the conference difference. And here's the thing, I don't know. The, the email, you know, was like kind of one of those spoof emails. But like it said it was from Enrique Tario. So like at first there was like a little bit of like, was this Tario again since he was here the day before? I do think, you know, one does often not sign their own bomb threats or, and it was like, you know, I forgot, I'm not gonna actually say what the email was. But the, I just, to me the story was, despite the fact that these January 6th cops have been harassed within an inch of their life, the fact that their families are being harassed every time they make a public appearance, they haven't stopped making public appearances. And all these people who came to this conference just normies, a lot of bulwark people. When there was a bomb threat, they just went back to the conference. And to me there was like a casual bravery to all of it that you see out of none of our elected officials. Like, and to me this is sort of like where we're gonna, and I said this on the stage. We released that, that talk that we did. But like ultimately we're gonna be the ones we're waiting for, right? Like we are gonna be the ones who have to both, I think do do the thing that we're healing and everybody else to do because I'm not sure they will. But none of these people who showed up for this workout, none of the speakers were, everybody still went and got on stage. We went and got on stage when like it was happening right then. And like, I don't know, I just, that was my big takeaway was like they continue to try to chill civic spaces. They continue to try to, they want to disrupt places like that and make people feel fear. And like no one in that room did.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hell yeah. Good job people in the room.

[JVL]

I'm still glad I wasn't there.

[Tim Miller]

People, everyone asked about you. They were like, where is the jvl?

[Sarah Longwell]

Everyone did ask about you. It was annoying.

[Tim Miller]

It was annoying. And I was like, well he hates this and you. And everybody was like, oh, give me more bad jvl. Yes. He's such a hater. Love him so much.

[JVL]

I, I, I have a question for you guys about bad jvl. So my, my brother in law is on a, a signal chain with some friends who are collecting social media posts from Trump supporters who are absolutely outraged at bad things happening to them. And so for instance today we have, I just Want to read this to you. It's a Facebook post. I've been a proud Trump supporter for three elections, and now my business just got cut off from our federal contract. This is bull. We're not some DEI quota filler. We do real hard work. We need to get in touch with someone ASAP to fix this mess, like and share so the right people see this.

[Sarah Longwell]

Give me more. I want more. I want more. I just need one more.

[JVL]

You want one more?

[Sarah Longwell]

I need one more.

[JVL]

Okay. My daughter is losing her job. Thanks to Doge. I voted for President Trump three times. My daughter is a hardworking, excellent worker for the manatee Manistee. I assume this is Sick National Forest. She doesn't work for DEI. She runs the office. I'm at POTUS 45 at Elon Musk. It's not right.

[Tim Miller]

Do people think DEI is an agency? She doesn't work for DEI.

[Sarah Longwell]

Manatees. I'm sorry. If you're doing manatee work, you're a shit lib.

[JVL]

Sorry. Let me read another. Let me read another one for you. Today I found out my neighbor who works for the USDA lost his job. I don't know him well, but I do know he's worked for USDA for the 12 years I've known him. What I do know is that I'm incredibly happy for him and his family. I'm glad he lost his career. I'm glad he lost his source of income. I'm glad he got everything he voted for. I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for the Trump flag he's been flying for the last five years to come down.

[Sarah Longwell]

That one's a little less satisfying. Okay. Where are you going with this?

[JVL]

I just wanted to ask, on a scale of 1 to 10, how wrong is it to get off on these?

[Sarah Longwell]

I mean, I think that if you're literally jerking off to them, that is a problem. And you should probably see a therapist.

[JVL]

All right, so let's say not. Let's. Let's pretend it's not. Literally, look at old bad wolf. Sarah has her arms crossed. Oh, Sarah's crossed her arms and now she's gonna use my middle name.

[Sarah Longwell]

I think it's okay to take a little bit of satisfaction and people seeing the consequences of their own actions. I think it's okay to take a little bit. I think it can go overboard like anything else, you know, I think taking, you know, having two drinks of bourbon is pretty good. Having 20, you know, sometimes gets you into trouble.

[JVL]

I'm not saying that I get off on this. I was just asking for a friend.

[Tim Miller]

Sure. Here's. Let me reframe this for you so that you can in a, in a better moral place with your happiness. Because I think that the part to take solace in and perhaps derive some happiness in is that the level of chaos that these guys are and like it just, it is permeated, it's so diffuse that like each of these individual stories represents what I hope will be in aggregate, a drop in support for Trump. Like a fierce, like a stone drop, like anger toward him that will rob him of the number one thing that is giving him power right now, which is the patina of public support for the stuff that he's doing. And so each individual story hopefully layers up to a public refutation of what Trump is doing. And so that you can find pleasure in that can make us happy. I think delighting in the individual pain of people is probably not good for you.

[JVL]

Okay, well, I mean, to be clear, again, that's for a friend. I don't, I don't. And could JVL the good JVL's response to these is that what we should do to people like this when we encounter them in our lives. Hug is we should say, I am so sorry that this happened to you and that these very bad people lied to you. How can I help?

[Tim Miller]

I really like that jvl, in order to get through this moment, has like severanced himself, like split himself into parts so that he can say, no, this.

[JVL]

Guy, which one is the innie and which one is the outtie?

[Sarah Longwell]

How can I help?

[JVL]

No one knows.

[Sarah Longwell]

Obviously the how can I help is the innie. Yeah, obviously I would say I do think it's interesting and we can get into this as the weeks go on, but like consumer confidence is down, stock market is down, people are losing their jobs. There's not a ton of stories about people getting jobs. There's not a ton of stories out there about like Trump's. Not again. You could imagine an alternate world of.

[JVL]

Dozen 19 year old interns who now have gainful employment with the federal government.

[Tim Miller]

And this woman, Amy, what's her face.

[JVL]

She got a big promotion.

[Tim Miller]

She did.

[Sarah Longwell]

But like you can imagine a world where Trump's out there. He did this right, with Matas Yahassan or whatever his name is. I'm calling him Matis Yahoo, like the white rapper, the white Zionist rapper. Matayoshi Son. What is it, jbl?

[JVL]

What is the person you're trying to. The softbank guy? Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

He did that press conference with them. It's like we're investing in America. You can imagine a thing where that was where they're focusing their energy on. I haven't seen a ton of that. We have seen the stories of people losing their job. We have seen the polls about consumer confidence. I think that that's just. I do think that's a bad sign for them. And I don't see a lot of outs at the moment for I see a lot of ways that it can get worse and not a ton that it's going to get better. So there you go.

[JVL]

All right. Did you want to talk about tech Bros?

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, I did. But here's what I really just want to say. JBL's article from the Triad earlier this week about why tech bros want authoritarianism is so good. It is good and it's so important because I just think going back to Sarah's comment from Kara at the beginning about giving people a framework for why these people are bad is very important. Right. And the idea that they're stealing all of your information because they want to create an AI supercomputer, I think is a good framework. That they're in a race, in a tiny dicked race to be the first trillionaire is like a good frame. I also think yours is jbl, which is like they actually don't want you to be in charge of your own destiny at all. Like, they've decided that the system is broken and that there should be a small cadre of brilliant tech dorks who make decisions for everybody. I think that is also a good frame. And so I just think there's an important article as, like, people start to think about how to talk about this. I think all of those are more effective than being like just Billionaire Bad, though. I think obviously Billionaire Bad works for some people and so I like it and I want to go deeper. But Sarah, I think is on spring break in a couple weeks, so maybe me and JVL Secret podcast can just be about Curtis Yarvin. Because I don't know that we're going to have time to really get into that in a deep way right now. But that was what I wanted to say.

[JVL]

Well, thank you. It's very.

[Tim Miller]

JBL got a lot of praise on this show. This is getting.

[Sarah Longwell]

There's a lot of this annoying. Have either of you guys praised me recently? I can't think of it. That's fine. Not a fish. Don't do it. Just wait till it comes naturally.

[JVL]

You know, I did a show with Dan Pfeiffer yesterday where I almost cried on air talking about Sarah.

[Sarah Longwell]

I fell asleep during that show I was taking. I just kind of dozed off. I just needed a nap, Dagger. I just needed a quick nap. It wasn't your fault. It was my nap time. I do these eight minute, I call them Mimi naps because my Mimi rest in power Mimi would take these naps that are like, sometimes as short as 30 seconds to as long as like 11 minutes. That's it, though. Nothing more. And I've trained myself to do them. So, like at 1:00 in the afternoon every day, I, like, will nod off and sometimes it'll just like. It'll be 30 seconds, but I'll feel rejuvenated. And that happened to me during your. During your Danfifer interview. But I'll give it another swing today.

[Tim Miller]

And obviously now that I know you talked about me, I'll go listen to it.

[JVL]

It's here. I'll save you the half hour. I think it's like a minute 24 or something.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, thanks.

[JVL]

It's in the back third of the show. All right, guys, good show. Long show, last show together for a little bit or. No, we're going to have. We'll have a little bit of time together before. Before Sarah heads off and we have to start taping one week.

[Tim Miller]

It's one week of spring break gone.

[Sarah Longwell]

For spring break in like a month.

[JVL]

Spring break, yeah. Are you going to go to Senor Frogs send your song Senor Tadpoles Wednesday show.

[Sarah Longwell]

Oh, shit. I forgot when we rescheduled next Wednesday show taping for. But it's the day after Mardi Gras, so we might have to push that back.

[Tim Miller]

That might have to take your zbiotics, Tim.

[Sarah Longwell]

I will be taking my zbiotics. All right.

[JVL]

All right, guys. Subscribe to the channel, like the feed, all those things. We'll catch you next week. Good luck, America.