The Finish Line (The Secret Podcast Preview)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Next Level – “The Finish Line (The Secret Podcast Preview)”

Release Date: November 1, 2024
Host: The Bulwark (Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, Jonathan V. Last)

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1. Introduction to the Critical Final Days

In the episode titled “The Finish Line (The Secret Podcast Preview),” The Bulwark’s hosts—Sarah Longwell and Jonathan V. Last—delve into the intense final 96 hours leading up to the pivotal election. They set the stage by highlighting the pressing issues and mounting tensions that characterize this election cycle.

2. Donald Trump’s Threats Against Liz Cheney

A significant portion of the discussion centers around former President Donald Trump’s alarming rhetoric targeting Liz Cheney. Sarah and Jonathan analyze Trump’s recent statement where he metaphorically threatened Cheney, saying, “let's put her with a rifle, standing there with nine barrels shooting at her” ([00:34]).

Jonathan V. Last expresses his distress:
"He is talking about putting Liz Cheney in front of a firing squad. Like he is. There's no, there's no, this isn't a bloodbath contextual thing. This isn't. He was talking about something else." ([04:43])

Sarah Longwell concurs, emphasizing the impossibility of interpreting Trump’s remarks as anything but a direct threat:
"I just don't, I don't think there is any other way to read it. Do you?" ([03:28])

The hosts debate the normalization of such extreme language in political discourse, criticizing the media for downplaying the severity of Trump’s statements. Jonathan remarks, "Trump is doing this. And what. But like, Trump could not do this without the silence and neutrality." ([14:56])

3. The Gender Gap and Electoral Implications

The conversation shifts to the gender gap in voting patterns and its potential impact on the upcoming election. While specific details are briefly touched upon, the hosts underscore the importance of understanding how demographic shifts may influence electoral outcomes.

4. Larry Hogan’s Changing Stance and Endorsement Dynamics

Sarah and Jonathan critique former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan’s recent actions, particularly his public endorsement of Trump, which contrasts with his previously stated reluctance to seek Trump’s backing.

Sarah reads from a CNN report:
"GOP Senate candidate Hogan touts Trump endorsement in private fundraiser after repeatedly saying he didn't want it." ([18:18])

They question Hogan’s integrity and strategic decisions, pondering whether he will distance himself from Trump’s controversial statements to preserve his reputation:
"He should repudiate Trump's endorsement?" – Sarah ([20:02])

Jonathan supports this stance, expressing confidence that Hogan’s electoral prospects are bleak regardless of his endorsements:
"He's going to get crushed." ([20:26])

5. Media’s Role in Normalizing Extremism

A recurring theme is the media’s complicity in normalizing extremist rhetoric. The hosts argue that by framing Trump’s violent metaphors as mere policy disputes, the media fails to hold him accountable and inadvertently legitimizes harmful discourse.

Jonathan criticizes the media’s portrayal:
"They turn this extraordinary thing, which has never happened before... It just turns into, like, well, it's a policy dispute with some strong language." ([14:56])

Sarah adds, highlighting the media’s role in eroding public perception of decency:
"They just sort of sane wash it. They turn it into a, like, you know, even, even the choice of the verb slammed... It just turns into a policy dispute." ([14:56])

6. The Final Stretch: Reflections and Call to Action

As the election looms, Sarah and Jonathan reflect on the broader implications regardless of the outcome. They emphasize that defeating Trump is crucial but caution that this should not lead to complacency. Instead, they advocate for continued vigilance to address the underlying issues that have facilitated Trump’s divisive influence.

Jonathan emphasizes the need for ongoing activism:
"It's extraordinarily important that he be defeated." ([17:54])

Sarah stresses learning from the past to navigate future crises:
"It is important to learn from this. And by learn from it, I mean to understand that when crises come, you actually can't count on people to do the right thing." ([16:15])

7. Concluding Remarks: The Importance of Accountability

In their closing remarks, the hosts call for accountability among Republican leaders to repudiate Trump’s extremist rhetoric actively. They warn that neutrality in such critical moments can have dire consequences for the nation’s democratic fabric.

Jonathan passionately states:
"Look, I wrote a piece, I wrote a piece for the Bulwark Speak now, guys, or forever hold your peace." ([07:54])

Sarah concludes by urging listeners to remain engaged and informed, underscoring the pivotal nature of the current election:
"Everything is the French Village... everything is at stake." ([17:38])

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jonathan V. Last: "Trump is doing this. And what. But like, Trump could not do this without the silence and neutrality." ([14:56])

• Sarah Longwell: "I just don't, I don't think there is any other way to read it. Do you?" ([03:28])

• Jonathan V. Last: "He should repudiate Trump's endorsement?" ([20:02])

• Sarah Longwell: "It is important to learn from this. And by learn from it, I mean to understand that when crises come, you actually can't count on people to do the right thing." ([16:15])

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Conclusion

In “The Finish Line (The Secret Podcast Preview),” The Bulwark’s Sarah Longwell and Jonathan V. Last provide a sobering analysis of the current political landscape as the election approaches. They dissect Trump’s incendiary rhetoric, critique the media’s role in normalizing extremism, and call for decisive action among Republican leaders to safeguard democratic principles. This episode serves as a clarion call for voters to recognize the gravity of the moment and the enduring work required to uphold the nation's values.

Transcript

[Sarah]

Hey there. On the last secret show before the election, Sarah and I talked about. We talked about a lot of stuff. We talked about Donald Trump's latest threat, this time against Liz Cheney. We talked about the gender gap and what that's gonna mean next Tuesday. We talked about St. Larry, who had some things to say this week. And, well, we just talked about what our feelings are heading into the last 96 hours. Here, here's the show.

[Jonah]

Let me just read it. Can I read it so we get every word correctly? She says, let's put her with a rifle, standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. Let's see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face. And honestly, me reading it out loud doesn't do it justice. Because when you hear him do it with the vitriol and the. The her face, like, shooting her in the face, it gives you, like, I think, like the big bad kind of chills of, oh, okay. Like, this isn't like, sorry. This isn't like when Republicans flop in distress because, you know, Joe Biden marble mouths his way through a thing where he's trying to call someone else garbage, and then he accidentally calls all the Trump voters garbage, which is, and I think a testament to why Joe Biden shouldn't be the nominee. But then Republicans, they just. Oh, they say they're so offended. I can't believe it. It is. I want to know what you think about him sitting there. Straightforwardly. I've seen a couple of people try to do a context thing, like, be like, here's the longer clip. I watched the full extended clip. There is no, there's no additional context. There's no anything that's like, oh, he meant something else. No, he meant, uh, let's see how she feels when the guns are in her face.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I mean, I. I mean, I could. If you were paying me money to do it, I could create some sort of explanation for this in which Trump is really saying that he had been brave having guns pointed at his face and that, let's see her be as brave as him. The weirdest is the number nine. That's a weirdly specific thing to say, isn't it? Because the only, the only possible explanation of that is that he's talking about a firing squad. There is no. When it comes to firing squads, there is no rule on this. I mean, sometimes it's five, sometimes it's seven. Sometimes it's what, you know, you just get whatever guys you can find to shoot the bad guy. But I just. Or the good guy or the good guy?

[Jonah]

I don't think firing squads often the people they're shooting at are not bad. Depends on the context.

[Sarah]

Sure. Depends on the context. I think it is almost impossible to read this as anything other than a fantasizing about putting her in front of a firing squad. I just don't, I don't think there is any other way to read it. Do you? Do you?

[Jonah]

No. I mean, no, no, I've been, I've been on a bit of a. Like I watched it and I was like, I immediately I went to my team, so my team had surfaced it, you know, in the middle of the night.

[Sarah]

I bet the people at the Free Press are going to be so upset about this. I mean Barry's got like 80 people ranging from pro Trump to anti, anti Trump coming to her election night watch party. And I bet every single one of them, because they just believe in free discourse and good faith, I bet they're all going to be really upset.

[Jonah]

I just, I care less about the Free Press and more about. Okay, so I know this is my personal obsession. Yeah, I know this is not what's important, but, but, but I've got my own personal obsession around this. That the thing is, is like the Free Press guys, I don't know there's such a specific thing they've decided they're doing, right, A specific lane and frame. The thing that I have been on about this morning is like this is where like Mitt Romney like knows Liz Cheney, you know, has like been with her at a lot of appearances. Jonah, Steve over at the Dispatch, like those guys, they know Liz Cheney and.

[Sarah]

I have no problem with that.

[Jonah]

You have no problem with what?

[Sarah]

Sorry, that's just for Heather. Okay, go ahead.

[Jonah]

I want the people who, who like this should be a moment, it should be a break glass moment. If you can dismiss this as just another thing Trump said. He is talking about putting Liz Cheney in front of a firing squad. Like he is. There's no, there's no, this isn't a bloodbath contextual thing. This isn't. He was talking about something else. And also this is one of those things where it's like the rhetoric alone is disqualifying, not even like the explicit intention, like the rhetoric alone is disqualifying. And if you are somebody who thinks that this can happen, that he can say things like this and you're going to do, I don't know, maybe I'm going to write in Edmund Burke.

[Sarah]

I mean Sarah, Kamala Harris has talked about, maybe Sometimes using some form of price controls for groceries. So I mean, how can you ask people to support that?

[Jonah]

Well, it's bad, it's bad policy and also has like literally nothing. They're not, they're not, they're not on the same planet. I'm just being not in the same moral universe. And I just.

[Sarah]

You weren't on the TV with Scott Jennings this morning by any chance?

[Jonah]

No, but I also went after him because I was like, you know, I'm sure I can't wait to see Scott Jennings today. Because you know what he'll do? He will defend this by saying somewhere someone on a college campus is doing a bad thing. And you know what? I bet they are. And I will not elect that weird 19 year old for president.

[Sarah]

19 year old for president, right.

[Jonah]

Sure won't. Sure won't. And that guy never get your vote. And you know what? If that person on that college campus is threatening violence. Violence, threatening to put somebody in front of a firing squad, guess what? I would kick them out. Okay? And I believe there is no better place for free speech than on a college campus. I'm a free speech absolutist. But guess where free speech ends. It's when you say I'm going to threaten violence against this person, which is just, it's not. And that's a. Free speech ends. It's a, it's a thing that we don't, that's where we don't tolerate. Right? Is the, no, I'm going to put her, I think she should be put in front of her firing squad. We should, we should aim guns at her. Like if a kid said that about another kid on a college campus with whom they were in a political debate, I think there would be consequences for that. And none of that matters actually, actually doesn't matter. This is the problem is like people get wrapped up in the corollaries or whatever. Forget that. Is it okay? Is it, is it, is it, is there any defense for somebody trying to be president of these United States to talk like this about somebody who opposes them politically? And I know there's no defense, but the question is, is like Mitt Romney, Jonah, Steve, Barry, whoever, will you tolerate this by saying probably just going to leave it blank, or will you say this is unacceptable as so many other things are. He is so egregiously unfit that obviously, obviously with all the reservations that come with your, your give all your reservations about her policies, say that you don't support him, but do something to keep this guy out of the White House. Do something. People who maintain their neutrality in moments like this, this is the last chance. Look, I wrote a piece, I wrote a piece for the Bulwark Speak now, guys, or forever hold your peace. Because if he wins by 9,000 votes in one of the industrial Midwest states and becomes president, it's on you guys. On you. I'm glad your hands are so clean.

[Sarah]

God, I love this version of you. Hot fire, I would say.

[Jonah]

What do you think? You talk about it.

[Sarah]

Well, I mean one of the paradoxes we have seen is that Donald Trump couldn't possibly get a security clearance for any job in the government except president, right?

[Jonah]

He couldn't get a job at the mall. But this, he's a convicted felon.

[Sarah]

But this is the weirdness of the American political life, right? It's people will tolerate anything because it's the biggest job, right? And then, you know, so we saw like there was a rejection of Doug Mastriano at the, the level of Pennsylvania governor, but I don't know if Doug Mastriano was the Republican nominee for president, I think he'd get 47%, 46% of the vote, right? Because people, people just, they're so into the tribalistic partisan lock in is so great that at the top level job, that's when they'll excuse everything or anything. And it's bad. It's really, really bad. It's worse that we like the media. I know Tim. Well, Tim's not here. I can say it like, you know, like the media plays along with the kabuki garbage stuff and then you know, like the media, both sides is all of it as like, you know, oh, look at this bad thing. And this other thing is also bad. Like yeah, sames. And I just don't, don't know how we get out of here. It'd be great if, look great if she wins. I think there's an even money chance that she'll win. I think it's great. I would like for it to be more than even money, but I'll take even money. Joe Biden didn't have an even money chance to win. And if she does win, things will be much better than if she loses. But at least in the near term, like the what, eight weeks between election Day and the certification of the votes, like that's going to be period of very real danger because I don't know what you think about this, Sarah, but my sense is that the mood in Republican circles is that like 100% of them expect Trump to win 100% of the time. Like, they do not seem to believe that they're. They think that they're in, like, Reagan 1984 territory, which doesn't make any sense to me. Like, I don't. I don't understand how any rational person could look at this. Whereas on the Democratic side, like, I don't even know if, like, half of Democratic voters think that she has more than, like, a 70% chance to win. Like, even the most optimistic, most. Even Simon Rosenberg is not telling you. Like, oh, yeah, you know, 100 out of 100 times she wins. This is in the bag. And when you've primed people to do that after they've already attempted an insurrection and they've, like, I just. I don't know. Looks pretty bad to me. Looks pretty dangerous.

[Jonah]

Yeah, I think. I do think that there. It is worth saying that no matter which way this election goes, there's so much work to do. It's like, a weird thing, actually. And this isn't specifically about the Bulwark or Never Trump, but I'm getting a lot of calls right now from reporters who are going to write the, like, what does Never Trump do after if Trump loses? And, like, you know, we get asked.

[Sarah]

This a lot because he's just going to evaporate.

[Jonah]

Right, I know. Well, it's not even that. No, but it's not that. It's not even about him. Like, I think that the mistake that people are making when they're like, well, what's the bulwark going to do if Trump loses? As though Trump is our only rison d'etre and not the manifestation of a sickness that is gripping our country and a political party that now is replete through that political party. And, like, we're not at this moment of political realignment and media disruption and everything else. Like, what do you mean? Like, what do you. It's not. It's great. Everything. It is extraordinarily important that he be defeated. He. But if he's defeated, the idea that, like, it's all hunky dory, man, it's copacetic now, have we learned nothing? Have we learned nothing from the last few years, then?

[Sarah]

I mean, it'd be great if it was. But the most likely thing to me is a. That he keeps his grip on his party, on the party for another four years. But even if he doesn't, like, Republican voters have now gotten a taste for authoritarianism. And I think whoever succeeds him is not gonna succeed him by being Nikki Haley.

[Jonah]

Wait, can I just read to you the New York Times Headline. I'm sorry, I just, I just saw this. This is the New York Times headline about this attack. Trump attacks Liz Cheney using violent war imagery. In an on stage interview in Arizona with Tucker Carlson, former President Donald J. Trump slammed a top Republican critic as he criticized U.S. involvement in foreign conflicts.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Jonah]

Yeah, guys. No, it's, it's, it's just, yeah, it's just, he's just, it's just a foreign policy dispute.

[Sarah]

The New York Times is fucking the worst. That's not true. They're not the worst. The New York Times publishes many great things. I love the New York Times. It's a wonderful institution in many ways.

[Jonah]

But this is unreal.

[Sarah]

This is like, but this is what they've done for the last fucking four years.

[Jonah]

No, Donald Trump said Liz Cheney should be put in front of a firing squad and see how she feels with the guns pointed at her face.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah, I, and they just sort of sane wash it. They turn it into a, like, you know, even, even the choice of the verb slammed, Slammed is, is a normal thing that political opponents do when criticizing one another's policies. Right? Like, that's everything about that. It's just, this is how things get normalized. Right? The time is just normal. They're turning this extraordinary thing, which has never happened before. No presidential candidate has ever said that his opponent, not his opponent, but, you know, a member of the opposition should be put in front of a firing squad. It just turns into a, you know, well, it's a policy dispute with some strong language. Great job, guys. Bang up job, man.

[Jonah]

The number of people who have failed to meet this moment really is extraordinary. Like institutions, humans. I, I, I'll never forget it. I just, I won't. The north will remember. I just, I have this, I don't know why, and sometimes I'm like, Sarah, you know, Trump, Trump is doing this. And what. But like, Trump could not do this without the silence and neutrality. What is, what is. I feel like there's a quotation and it's like the hottest places in hell are reserved for those people who in moments of crisis, maintain their neutrality.

[Sarah]

I think, I think there's like a Dante, like the circle of hell. There's a.

[Jonah]

Look this up. Because I got to tweet it, because that's how I feel right now.

[Sarah]

You're composing tweets while we're taping. I would say this. It is important. I mean, it's fine to not forget and to keep a list like Steve Buscemi and Billy Madison, because I do that. Like with everything in my life, I have a series of lists that I keep for grudges.

[Jonah]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But it is important to learn from this. And by learn from it, I mean to understand that when crises come, you actually can't count on people to do the right thing. And I think we entered the Trump years. I don't want to speak for everybody, but I certainly entered those years with a set of assumptions about the innate decency of people and how people's relationships to ideology and policy preferences and all those sorts of things. And honor. And all of those assumptions on my part were wrong. And it was my mistake for not knowing, because it wasn't like this was unknowable. Like, anybody who has studied human history would have understood that this is what people do, this is how societies fall apart, and that this is a thing that happens. But I, you know, I just didn't, I didn't clock any of that until Trump. And so it's important to understand, and this is why it informs my view of whatever comes next. You know, like, the people are like, oh, what are you gonna do? Have you not been paying attention for the last eight years? We now, like, everything is the French Village.

[Jonah]

Yeah, right.

[Sarah]

Everything is the French Village.

[Jonah]

You know, you should really watch the show.

[Sarah]

I'm sorry, I don't do series television.

[Jonah]

Like, it's amazing to me that you have internalized the French Village simply through me talking about it as a metaphor for the things that are going on.

[Sarah]

I mean, I'm sorry. I am willing to accept you as the mediating lens for everything and more in the world. That's my level of trust for you.

[Jonah]

That's great. That's great.

[Sarah]

Can we talk about Larry Hogan?

[Jonah]

Oh, yeah, we can. Oh, God.

[Sarah]

So, Larry, what did, what did. What is it he said in his closed door, off the record fundraiser yesterday?

[Jonah]

Did you. You know, so I saw this, like, slide by and, you know, got sad about it for a minute and moved on. But the. It sounds like he said. But is there a tape? He said he was telling these business leaders, look, Trump's endorsed me. So he was touting the Trump endorsement, according to this report.

[Sarah]

This is a CNN report exclusive. GOP Senate candidate Hogan touts Trump endorsement in private fundraiser after repeatedly saying he didn't want it. Yeah. Tell me what you think about this. Were you surprised on a call here? I'll just read from the CNN story. Okay. On the call Wednesday, a local GOP donor asked Hogan about the public perception that Hogan and Trump, quote, hate each other. The former Maryland gun and Governor clarified that he did not actually. That he did actually receive Trump's endorsement. According to a video of the call exclusively obtained by cnn, quote, donald Trump actually endorsed me. Hogan says, interrupting the donor and repeating, donald Trump actually endorsed me. Okay, so, you know, good for Larry. Here's both ways.

[Jonah]

Yes. I wonder.

[Sarah]

I wonder after the Liz Cheney thing, like, could maybe we could place a phone call or text Larry Hogan and ask him, hey, so would you like to repudiate the Trump endorsement? Since he just said that he would like to put Liz Cheney in front of a firing squad? And would you like to put out a statement saying that he should.

[Jonah]

He should repudiate Trump's endorsement?

[Sarah]

Because you're gonna fucking lose the race anyway. You're going to lose, so why not take your fucking honor and do you know, at least preserve that? I'm sorry.

[Jonah]

Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. This guy, you are losing.

[Sarah]

It doesn't like this idea. Oh, boy. It doesn't matter.

[Jonah]

I. Yeah, he's going to get. He's going to get crushed.

[Sarah]

Take Marjorie Taylor Greene every day of the week. You knew it was going to come back to her, didn't you? It always does. No, I can't quit her.

[Jonah]

Everybody, I'm deeply disappointed in today and this weekend, the last four days, you will find me at my absolute most insufferable. I'm going to demand every single Republican who's been anywhere on anything, like, formally repudiate what Trump says and say that you've got to keep this guy out of the White House. They're all getting text messages and emails from me.

[Sarah]

The conversation goes on from there. This is it, guys. This is the time to do it. This is the time to join. If you want to be part of Bulwark plus, we want to ride with you. We want you riding with us. Head on over to thebullwerk.com and subscribe.