The Incompetence In This Administration Is STAG-GER-ING!

Summary

The Next Level Podcast Episode Summary

Title: The Incompetence In This Administration Is STAG-GER-ING!
Release Date: March 26, 2025
Hosts: JVL, Tim Miller, and Sam Dine
Podcast by: The Bulwark
Description: Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, and Jonathan V. Last bring their signature political insight and banter to the masses in The Next Level podcast. Tune in to hear them discuss the news of the week, break down campaigns and elections, and wade into pop culture feuds.

---

1. The Signal Controversy and Classified Information

The episode opens with a heated discussion about the recent revelations from The Atlantic concerning Jeff Goldberg's leaked texts, which allegedly include sensitive war plans. JVL introduces the topic, highlighting the strain between Goldberg and the administration.

• JVL [01:55]: "The best part of all this is that after having called Jeff Goldberg a liar... the White House's answer from Carolyn Leavitt was no, we object to that. There's sensitive information in those texts."

Tim Miller critiques the administration's stance, suggesting that the evidence presented only pertains to "attack plans" rather than full-scale war strategies.

• Tim Miller [03:37]: "Jeffrey Goldberg is fabulous. He promised war plans and instead they were only attack plans."

The hosts express skepticism over the administration's handling of the situation, questioning the validity and intent behind labeling the leaked documents as sensitive.

2. Critique of Administration's Handling of Sensitive Information

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of mishandling classified information. The hosts argue that the administration's inability to manage sensitive data reflects deeper systemic issues.

• Sam Dine [05:18]: "The assumption is that Waltz is leaking to Goldberg and he's trying to influence the Trump administration's foreign policy by going back, channeling to the Atlantic."

JVL emphasizes the administrative chaos, pointing out inconsistencies and lack of proper investigation protocols.

• JVL [10:36]: "It is very difficult to download Signal on a government device... These people are all using personal devices for this stuff."

3. The Greenland Trip: Symbolism and Criticism

A significant portion of the episode critiques the decision to send Usha Vance and J.D. Vance to Greenland, metaphorically representing the administration's misguided priorities.

• JVL [23:22]: "If they don't control your borders, you're not a country. And if you have a country which is threatening you with annexation against your will... why the fuck should you let them in?"

The hosts mock the symbolic nature of the trip, suggesting it serves more as a publicity stunt than a meaningful diplomatic mission.

• Sam Dine [25:22]: "I don't feel for her, but watching someone disintegrate in front of a congressional committee. Just can't answer basic questions."

4. Tesla's Market Decline: A Brand Disaster

Shifting gears, the podcast delves into Tesla's declining market performance in Europe despite a growing overall EV market. JVL underscores the severity of Tesla's plummet.

• JVL [33:07]: "Tesla sales... down 43%. It is very hard to lose nearly half of your market volume, not share, but your volume when the overall market is growing by a third."

The hosts draw parallels to past brand crises, arguing that Tesla's leadership failures exacerbate the company's woes.

• JVL [35:39]: "They have the guy who owns the company telling people that he's a Nazi. He likes Nazis... unless you are a very specific type of person, he hates you."

5. The State of Accountability and Authoritarianism in Government

A critical theme throughout the episode is the lack of accountability within the current administration, with the hosts drawing comparisons to authoritarian practices.

• JVL [13:01]: "The most problematic is that the government won't investigate either of these things. Because that gets to a systemic problem."

The discussion highlights the administration's shift from addressing traditional national security threats to targeting specific groups and individuals, suggesting a move towards soft authoritarianism.

• Sam Dine [46:17]: "They're trying to put you out of business. And, um, it's quite chilling. I think it's soft authoritarianism."

6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, the hosts reiterate their concerns about the administration's direction, emphasizing the need for systemic change to restore accountability and prevent further decline.

• JVL [52:12]: "Why the fuck should you let them in?"

• Tim Miller [57:03]: "Good luck, America."

The episode concludes with a mix of skepticism and urgency, urging listeners to stay informed and critical of the ongoing political maneuvers.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• JVL [01:55]: "There's sensitive information in those texts."
• Tim Miller [03:37]: "Jeffrey Goldberg is fabulous."
• Sam Dine [05:18]: "He's trying to influence the Trump administration's foreign policy."
• JVL [23:22]: "Why the fuck should you let them in?"
• JVL [33:07]: "Tesla sales... down 43%."
• Sam Dine [46:17]: "It's soft authoritarianism."
• Tim Miller [57:03]: "Good luck, America."

---

Key Takeaways

• Administration's Mishandling of Sensitive Information: The episode underscores significant concerns regarding the current administration's ability to manage classified data, highlighting potential national security risks.

• Lack of Accountability: There's a pervasive theme of systemic failures within governmental structures, leading to unchecked power and a drift towards authoritarian practices.

• Impact on Major Brands: Tesla's drastic sales decline in Europe serves as a case study for how leadership and brand management failures can severely impact a company's market position.

• Symbolic Diplomatic Missions: The trip to Greenland is criticized as more of a political stunt than a substantive diplomatic effort, reflecting broader inefficiencies within the administration.

---

This episode of The Next Level presents a scathing critique of the current administration's inefficiencies, lack of accountability, and the broader implications for national security and corporate governance. Through incisive discussions and pointed humor, the hosts offer listeners a comprehensive analysis of pressing political and economic issues.

Transcript

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[JVL]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next level. I'm jvl here with my best friend, Tim Miller.

[Tim Miller]

Hey.

[JVL]

And that other guy, Sam Dine.

[Tim Miller]

Sarah's on vacation.

[JVL]

Sarah's on vacation.

[Tim Miller]

I thought we were doing a no vacation in the first hundred days rule is that the. The publisher gets a pass on that or what's.

[JVL]

I don't think that's. I don't think that's the way any of this works, Tim. We have to pace ourselves because we're going to be doing this for forever. So I encourage people to take breaks.

[Tim Miller]

I got a vacation coming in July, but, you know, I'm just not trying. I'm trying to grind here during the prime time, unlike you're the grinder.

[JVL]

He'll get you off a little east right there for people.

[Sam Dine]

Good start to the show.

[Tim Miller]

Welcome to the next level.

[JVL]

This is what happens when Sarah's this.

[Tim Miller]

Is the next level, boys level. Cock and ball jokes coming this hour.

[Sam Dine]

Within the first minute.

[JVL]

So we got to talk about the Atlantic and the Signal. We don't have a story for this. Please don't call it signal gate. I don't ever want it to be that. But lots of stuff happening. Tim, you had a great interview with Jeff Goldberg yesterday. Jeff Goldberg, one of my heroes. We can maybe in the back half have a little magazine boy talk about Jeff Goldberg and what he's done at the Atlantic because it's so impressive. But then this morning, Goldberg released a lightly redacted version of the rest of the texts. With the war plans that are of a, quote, sensitive nature. And, you know, it's just some timing of when aircraft are going to be taking off in which aircraft and then which drones are going to be used and when they're going to be taking off and then the time that the bombs are going to be dropping. And, you know, some stuff about having eyes on the ground to watch the target go into his girlfriend's place, which probably couldn't compromise any sources of it. But the best part of all this is that after having called Jeff Goldberg a liar and said that there were no war plans, there was nothing confidential and nothing sensitive, the Atlantic then reached out to like all the people involved and were like, hey, so are you cool with us publishing the rest of the texts? And the White House's answer from Carolyn Leavitt was no, we object to that. There's sensitive information in those texts.

[Tim Miller]

But not war plans though, because they've set a lot of talking point today. It's attack plans. Jeffrey Goldberg is fabulous. He promised war plans and instead they were only attack plans.

[JVL]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Hold on. Tim, Tim, don't you have to have an act of Congress to declare a war? Ah, so if Congress has not voted to declare the war, then there can't even be a war to have plans for.

[Joe]

Boom.

[JVL]

Roasted.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I'm mostly interested and you know, they're absurd talking points today that I guess they feel like they have to do to just. It's like this test that Trump does to his people occasionally. He's like, I'm going to make you defend the most absurd thing possible just to demonstrate you're on side. And so we're going to go through that process again. I'm more interested though in the Waltz part of this and the Hegseth parts. Waltz on Laura Ingraham last night. Obviously self conscious that there's some chatter in MAGA world that people think that maybe he did this on purpose, that he's a neocon in the midst, that he's not a true believer. And so he's got to go on to Fox Prime Time and like do really, I mean, Pizzagate Jack level conspiracy mongering about this, about how like, oh, Jeffrey might have just hacked it, hacked into my phone and who knows whether it was deliberate.

[Sam Dine]

It was even crazier, got sucked in.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Sam Dine]

Well, first of all, I think the backstory is there's a lot of chatter that this proves that Waltz has been leaking to Goldberg. So that's why Waltz is freaking out Right. Like, the.

[JVL]

The.

[Sam Dine]

The assumption is that Waltz is leaking to Goldberg and he's trying to influence the Trump administration's foreign policy by going back, channeling to the Atlantic, which is probably not the most effective way.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe the worst way to do it.

[Sam Dine]

Maybe the worst, worst way. But putting this in. And then Waltz. So Waltz obviously has to, you know, shore up his credentials. So he goes on Ingram, and I think, if I'm describing it correctly, his. His excuses. He added a contact to his contact list, and somehow the number, Jeffrey Goldberg's number, got transposed into that contact. And because he can't figure out the technology, because he's a boomer, he's having Elon Musk look into it.

[Tim Miller]

But he. But he thinks it might have been deliberate. He throws out there the national security.

[Sam Dine]

Could have been. Yeah. He suggests it could have been deliberate. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

That's an insane. That is like. That is an accusation of a very serious charge of espionage.

[Sam Dine]

It also doesn't really. It doesn't really say much about him that he's doing this happen.

[JVL]

I mean, Waltz is saying, like, it was a mistake, and I take full responsibility for it, and we're moving it on. And then, like, literally later in the same day, he's like, you know, we got to look and see how it is that this. This loser he called Jeff. Jeff Goldman, loser, got sucked into. Sucked. You know, we have a tiger team that we are Elon Musk's smartest. Big Balls 42 is on it. Big Balls 42 is looking into the boss.

[Tim Miller]

I liked when Laura's trying to help him out, she's like, you know, it could be one of these things where he comes in and there's a. And he's using the press list from the old National Security advisor. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Mike Waltz has just taken Jake Sullivan's signal, you know, signal message, you know, contact list it into his phone.

[Sam Dine]

And then, like, it was something on the cloud. Right.

[Tim Miller]

It's like, what?

[Sam Dine]

Meanwhile, the cloud works.

[JVL]

Yeah. I mean, it could be that. I mean, I assume that, like all important people, Mike Waltz is friends with the great Jeff Goldblum, the actor. And it could be that when he was putting Jeff Goldblum's contact information into his phone, he just mistyped a couple digits and accidentally put Jeff Goldberg's number in. I mean, that's a thing that could happen.

[Tim Miller]

The spin on this stuff is all ridiculous, but I do think it's an important exercise to just think about what Pete Hegseth would be doing today if this was One of the woke generals that had done this, One of the woke generals, you know, that had a DEI lesson or a black general or a woman. Honestly, honestly, if this exact same situation had happened and a mid level woke general, a three star had put Jeff Goldberg on, on a attack plan, they, that we would have wall to wall hearings, court martial. I mean like it's a better. Yeah. And it's a better analogy than the. What if Biden had done this? How would Fox cover it like that? I was thinking that's right. But like what would this administration do?

[Sam Dine]

Well, you can say Howard Fox covered it because Pete Hexif would have been on Fox.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Sam Dine]

So yes, that's exactly the analogy. And he would have absolutely called for a court martial. He would have absolutely demanded that they'd be fired, resigned, prosecuted. But it's not just Pete, obviously. I mean we were going through this exercise yesterday with, I was doing with Bill Kristol for the morning shots and we're just like, okay, let's, let's assume this happens in normal times. Like what would Congress do? They'd hold hearings, they'd launch investigations. What would the DOJ do? They'd have to investigate it. What would the FBI do? They'd have to do an assessment of the, you know, damage done. Same with the intel community. I mean it goes down and down the list. And what will Trump eat up the entire.

[JVL]

It would eat up the entire administration, Sam. Because it wouldn't be just confined to this case, it would be who's using signal where elsewhere.

[Tim Miller]

And so they say at the beginning of the Signal chat a couple other things we haven't like talked about. I just want to flag. They say at the beginning of the Signal chat. I don't have it in front of me, but something like, you know, adding from the previous PC group or something. Right. So like we know there's at least another group that was having these discussions on Signal, maybe a smaller group than the PC small group. Maybe it's the PC super small group. The other thing I think southpaw. I want to shout him out over on mentioned on social media, which I think is noteworthy is Stephen Miller gets added in late as like the heavy.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

In a foreign policy discussion. Like the Vice President is saying that he doesn't like this, he has concerns about this.

[Sam Dine]

They bring in Stephen Waltz.

[Tim Miller]

Brings in Stephen. It just shows you, you know, kind of like the la. There is no confidence. There's no member of CENTCOM in this channel. Right. Like there's no actual generals. And so you have the TV secretary do it. Yeah, you're the TV Secretary of Defense. You have Waltz, who obviously is not in great standing yet, is still building his competence. Rubio is an outsider, so they don't have anybody. It's like the heavy. Has to be Stephen Miller to come in and be like, nope, the President really wanted this. I think that's really telling about just how fucking deep into amateur hour we are.

[JVL]

I want to read from one of the hearings going on today. Senator Kelly, just going to read the transcript. DoD policy prohibits discussion of even controlled, unclassified information on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that? Tulsi Gabbard? I haven't read that policy.

[Sam Dine]

All right.

[JVL]

The CI director, Radcliffe, I'm not familiar with the DoD policy. And here's the other thing. So it is very, very difficult to download signal on a government device. Maybe impossible. Which means these people are all using personal devices for this stuff.

[Sam Dine]

Right?

[JVL]

Right. And I.

[Tim Miller]

In foreign countries, there is. There is some. Because we've said this at Supporting Kids, there is some dispute about Wyckoff. Wyckoff is credibly disputing that his phone was not in Russia. I guess maybe he left his phone at home, which maybe has its own issues.

[JVL]

Left it in the Uber on the way to the.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Yes, there's some. There are OPSEC issues for. We're not. With not having your phone where you're discussing a bombing plan on it. I left it at home to being in the Kremlin when you. When you had it.

[JVL]

There is.

[Sam Dine]

There is enough. There is another little chestnut in there, though, which is in this text, which is Marco Rubio at one point adds a different contact or a device for Marco Rubio. Right. Like, he adds a separate device. So either he was currently on a government device and then added his personal one, or he was on a personal one and thought to himself, this is not great. I need to add the government one. Either way, one of them was likely a personal one and Marco Rubio. There's a litany of, you know, statements from Marco Ruby about, you know, sanctity of, you know, protecting classified information, all that stuff. So, you know, they all look shitty in this. They just can't admit it.

[JVL]

Am I wrong, though, that the. So I. I mean, I talked about this yesterday in the newsletter. I mean, there are three levels of problem here, and we're all. We're all. I don't mean us, but the world is obsessing about the least problematic one. The least problematic one is national security breach. Right. Like Those I'm.

[Tim Miller]

The idea that the Houthis could have got an anti aircraft missile and shot.

[JVL]

Down, which is bad. Right. The idea that somebody is mishandling classified information is bad. Bad, but not the end of the world. The idea that people are violating the Presidential Records act, also bad. In fact, worse than the national security thing.

[Sam Dine]

You think so?

[JVL]

Not. I think so. I think much worse than the national security thing because that speaks to the mode of government and not like amateur hour fuck ups. Right. That, that speaks to people who are trying to hide what they're doing while in government. The most problematic is that the government won't investigate either of these things.

[Sam Dine]

Yes.

[JVL]

Because that gets to a systemic problem. Like that's not. And that's new. Right? I mean people mishandle classified information all the time. That doesn't mean it's okay, but it just means like that is a thing which we are, we are used to dealing with. People do try to get around Presidential Records act not okay. But it's a thing that we have a system set up to handle. We do not have a system set up to handle when the government becomes lawless.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, I totally.

[JVL]

I don't even know what to do about that.

[Sam Dine]

No, I mean we have recent history of exactly how we handled it. You know, it was messy, obviously, but when Hillary Clinton's emails became an issue, obviously there were multiple investigations launched into a James Comey and so on and so forth. No one expects Pam Bondi to lift a finger. Right. Like that's never going to happen.

[Tim Miller]

No cash.

[JVL]

Right. I mean this is. Or catch. And Hakeem Jeffries isn't even trying. Hakeem Jeffries. Like maybe we can guilt Pete Hegseth into resigning. You know, which is not the. I mean, I guess that could Great.

[Sam Dine]

Could House Democrats. Could House Democrats launch some sort of probe? They would.

[JVL]

No, but they could. But they could bang the drum about. Well, we need an investigation. Right? We need an investigation to how the entire administration.

[Sam Dine]

I bet they. I bet they end up there. Jbl. I. I can't imagine they don't. But it's. It is pretty alarming that we just have no recourse here. No, not just recourse. No way to find out exactly the extent of the damage and how bad this. How bad the signal use is just impossible to know.

[JVL]

So can I. Can I. I just want to make another point about how silly these things are. So. So Waltz says that he's got some of Elon Musk's best, best boys investigating this. I mean, on the One hand, okay, that's wrong. But on the other hand, is that even true? Like, okay, if. Let's pretend this was true.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, of course it's not true.

[JVL]

Okay, who are the names of these people who are investigating? Do they have the clearances to investigate these things? Who are they employed by? Are they employed by Starlink? Are they employed by the federal government? What is their work product going to be? Are they going to do a report? Right. These are all things that you would, if you were actually doing an investigation to find out what happened. These would be the questions you answer even before you start the investigation.

[Sam Dine]

It's going to be the guy who says, let's normalize Indian hate.

[Tim Miller]

Your obsession over this is similar to my obsession over accusing Goldberg of espionage. So it's kind of like, okay, you said. The National Security Advisor has said that. So what are we doing now is.

[JVL]

So are they going to Goberg, right?

[Tim Miller]

Is someone called the DOJ going to.

[JVL]

Go to the Atlantic do that?

[Tim Miller]

Are you going to see.

[JVL]

I totally agree. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Seize just Goldberg's phones or else. What are you doing? What are you doing? Just, like, willy nilly accusing people of espionage on television. The whole thing is all just a farce, which I think speaks to your underlying point that there's no actual interest in accountability at all, which goes back to the firing of the inspectors general, which we've talked about. And all this. I mean, the other element to this that ties into my obsession of the San Salvador deportations simultaneously that the entire US Government is out there saying, there's no big deal here. Nothing sensitive, nothing classified about talking about the specific time that we're going to bomb Yemen. Okay, Nothing classified there, but the details of when a plane left with people that were refugees to go to San Salvador. That's a state secret. Now, we also put out a video. We also put out a snuff video about it with a sizzle reel.

[Sam Dine]

Look at how great this is.

[Tim Miller]

But that's a state. So that's what they're saying in court was to. And we've talked about this with Wittis and others you've talked about with Ryan Goodman, Sam, and the interviews. Like, there are, like multiple administrations happening where, like, they have this, like, oh, we're going to try to backfill some level of rationale and seriousness to this anytime an actual judge makes us do it. But, like, the whole thing is just fake. Like, it's all. It's all for shit. It's all fake.

[JVL]

This is the. This is like, you know, we didn't There was nothing classified or sensitive. Also, Jeff Goldberg can't release any of it because it's sensitive. It's the same thing, right? It's all like, I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

That's good.

[JVL]

I don't know. I don't know what else to say about it.

[Tim Miller]

Jbl, me and Sam talked about this yesterday. I'm curious your take. The other thing that really jumps out at me at the text is just how try hard Pete Hegseth is. And speaking of fake and like, pretending to be a real Secretary of Defense, man, it's hard to imagine Mattis, like, forget that. Forget the emojis, you know, forget the fist bump, American flag, fire emoji. Jim Madison ever would have sent that. It's really hard to imagine Jim Madness being like, I'm on a chain with Scott Besant and like the random, like a person that the. That Marco has appointed.

[Sam Dine]

Joe Kent.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Marco's political director is on here. And Joe Kent. Yeah.

[Sam Dine]

Twice failed congressional candidate.

[Tim Miller]

Candidate. Aspiring white nationalist. Like, so I'm going to send you that chain of 19 people, like, very detailed plans about when we're going to bomb at what time for war. You can't imagine. Yeah, you can't imagine.

[Joe]

For war.

[Tim Miller]

For attack. You can't imagine him doing that because he's like, he wouldn't need to feel the need to get the approval of all these random fucking nobodies. Right. Like, he has the confidence in himself as a secretary of defense to have a plan and he has the president's confidence and he moved forward. Like, this is the chain of somebody who knows that he's a TV host to me. And that is why the sensitive information was out there, because he was. Because he sent.

[JVL]

Yeah, this is all like cosplay with him. Like, it's. This is. I don't. I mean, well, he's bad.

[Sam Dine]

But I've been watching Tulsi in the hearings yesterday and today, and that is like you. I don't feel for her, but watching someone disintegrate in front of a congressional committee. Just can't answer basic questions, can't answer them.

[Tim Miller]

Looks very nervous.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah.

[JVL]

Republicans voted to confirm these two people, like, five minutes ago.

[Sam Dine]

Yes, that's. And that's. I don't want to, like, I don't want to overstate it, but, like, ultimately a lot of this does come back to the Senate Republicans just being like, we'll roll the dice. Like, we will roll the dice with people we know are fundamentally unserious.

[JVL]

Great, guys. You won that bet for four Weeks.

[Sam Dine]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

Actually was that Marco and Waltz would be there. Honestly, like that's part of their. That was part of their. And they probably would have got there anyway. But like that's how they convinced themselves.

[Sam Dine]

But every. Yeah, fine, fair enough. But like it's. And it's not just national security because they rolled the dice obviously with a bunch of these people. And like, you know, we could talk about this later, but like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. On the domestic front is doing all the anti vax stuff that Bill cast. He said he would get, you know, heads up on and all that shit. And of course it didn't happen. And everyone predicted this would be the case. And they look like we were right. Yeah, we were right. And they look, they look like amateurs that we predicted. And the Senate Republicans owe a lot of this responsibility.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I think so far RFK has been like a top three cabinet member.

[Sam Dine]

Oh, don't even.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe behind Doug Burgum, maybe number two. I mean, it's a pretty motley crew. I can't. I mean it can't be Sean Duffy. I mean with all the planes falling, you know, Linda McMahon shutting down her own thing. That's true. The Ag Secretary is out there saying.

[Sam Dine]

Do you count as a cabinet member if they're eliminating your cabinet? I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

That's a chickens. John Radcliffe couldn't remember. He's the head of the CIA. Couldn't remember what was on the text chain that he was on about bombing apparently.

[JVL]

So hard to know.

[Tim Miller]

Lori Chavez Durimo. She hasn't done anything too bad.

[Sam Dine]

What about Besant?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Besant's been a disaster.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, but is he worse than great?

[Tim Miller]

I think so so far. I mean, so far we're only two.

[Sam Dine]

Months in 1 24th the way through 1 24th.

[JVL]

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[Tim Miller]

I can't wait to talk about Greenland. What do you want to talk about, Sam? We can. You're no.

[Sam Dine]

Greenland.

[JVL]

I really want to talk about Greenland.

[Sam Dine]

I like it.

[JVL]

So Usha. Usha Vance was going. Was sent to Greenland.

[Sam Dine]

Usha.

[JVL]

Usha. Not Usha. Like Usher.

[Tim Miller]

Not like Usher.

[JVL]

Oh, Usha, I'm sorry. I. You know, these people care so much about getting people's names pronounced right that I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to disrespect her in that way. Me neither. So Usha was going to get shipped to Greenland to do her, I guess their trolling of our allies and somehow she roped her husband into going with her. Is going to Greenland like the equivalent at the vice presidential level of like, sure, I'll go to Bed, Bath and Beyond with you, honey.

[Tim Miller]

Is that like.

[JVL]

Is this errand that you desperately don't want to go on?

[Tim Miller]

I wanted Greenland on the show map jbl, because I want you. Because I think you're the only person out there doing it. I want you to do your rant about how they should not allow them off the plane that they should not allow the vice president of the United States. Because I kind of agree. It's one of these ridiculous. JBL takes that. You. More you think about. You're like, you know what? I think JBL is right about this. I don't think they should let J.D. vance into the country.

[JVL]

So here's what I would. My. My contention is that the government of Greenland should not approve the entrance visa for anybody from the Trump administration. Like when Charlie Kirk showed up and Don Jr. And all these people. So I. If they are flying into the US Military base, Greenland cannot prevent them from landing. But to get off the base, one assumes you have to pass through some form of immigration checkpoint. You know, Greenland's got to control their borders, guys. If you don't control your borders, you're not a country. And if you have a country which is threatening you with annexation against your will, and that country's leaders are showing up in order to do propaganda, why the fuck should you let them in?

[Sam Dine]

That's a totally fair point. Like, this would be like, he totally.

[JVL]

Saying he wanted to visit Czechoslovakia and Poland and the polls being like, well, I mean, you know, we can't stop him. You know, I know he says he wants to subjugate us, but, like, why? Why would you let them in? I don't understand. I literally don't understand it.

[Sam Dine]

I want to go back to how JD Got roped into this trip, because I think you're right. I think it's like a Bed Bath and Beyond experience. She probably was like, look, I've been doing a lot of the parenting. You've been busy. Like, you owe me this one. You. I'm not going alone. Like, you're coming with me to Greenland. I. I don't want to be thrust into this horrible diplomatic fiasco that's being unfolded here. So JD has to get a plane. I wonder, do they get signal service in Greenland? Because that's kind of important.

[Tim Miller]

It will be important. Did you and Nuke. Did you. Did you watch the USHA video where she announced going to Greenland?

[Sam Dine]

No.

[Tim Miller]

I would recommend going to watch it because it is so humiliating.

[Sam Dine]

Hello.

[Serena]

I'm so excited to share that I'll.

[Sam Dine]

Be visiting Kalali Nuna, Greenland, next weekend.

[JVL]

I'm particularly thrilled to visit during our.

[Sam Dine]

National dog sled race, which our country is proud to support as a sponsor, like Usha Vance.

[Tim Miller]

I don't have her CV in front of me, but she was, like, a very accomplished lawyer. She's a clerk for multiple Supreme Court justices, maybe one Supreme Court justice. And one. And then I think maybe Kavanaugh before he became Supreme Court. I forget what the listeners, but Usha is extremely accomplished, smart person, and she is just doing like the Melania Trump kind of reading from a teleprompter. Yeah. And we will go to Greenland as a cultural exchange. And it's like, why are you making yourself into just a pawn, a PR pawn for Donald Trump's ridiculous spoof? John Robertson, Brett Kavanaugh. There you go. Yeah. So it's a. It's a. It's an absurd video. It is. There is the, the. The Curb youb Enthusiasm music version of it is kind of needed.

[JVL]

I think we know why. Right. Because in for a penny, in for.

[Tim Miller]

A pound, in for a penny, right? This is.

[JVL]

This is true of literally all of them.

[Tim Miller]

Well, and jd, name one.

[Sam Dine]

Name one who's ever been like, you know what? I'm just not.

[Tim Miller]

That's a good point. But for JD in particular, it was. This is maybe bad news for some of our listeners because everybody loves bad news for a Trump administration person type story. But I forget who I was. I forget what I was watching. I was watching some lefty video where they were like, J.D. vance is the most unpopular vice president in history. And like, here's the thing. I think JD's strategic imperative is to become the most unpopular vice president in history. Right. Like, the only way for him to ostensibly, at some point, be the heir to MAGA, assuming Trump passes it off in 28 or 32 or 36, and assuming he doesn't want to give it to Baron, like, the only way to do it is to just demonstrate over and over again as ostentatiously as possible that he is a MAGA troll. Right. And so. And so you have. He has to actually act even more irresponsible than Trump to, like, gain the credibility. And so his numbers will be worse than Trump. But that is then how you secure the magazine. And then you take a gamble that the Democrats, like, put up.

[JVL]

Right.

[Sam Dine]

You know, I mean, the history of, history of modern Republican politics is if you show even, like, a modicum of daylight with Trump, you're done. Right. Like Mike Pence, January6. Done. Ron DeSantis, the Temerity to challenge Trump. Done. Like, you can do everything possible to be a Trump clum, but if you show one little bit of daylight, it's over. And I think JD recognizes that.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So I think that. I mean, that is the answer then to the JD and USHA thing. If USHA is on board for the infra Penny and for a pound, it's like, no, I have to. Not only do I have to just be a good.

[Sam Dine]

Small sacrifice, small sacrifice to make in the greater good, to go to green.

[Tim Miller]

I've got to be ridiculous. I've got to be a ridiculous clown. Like, I can't just be a good soldier. That's not good enough.

[Sam Dine]

Right.

[JVL]

Can we, can we talk about why we haven't invaded Greenland yet? Because like everything else, we, we keep being told that Greenland, I mean, Donald Trump said the words vital to our national interests. Okay, well, he's the president, he must know. And so if it's vital to our national interests, then we should take it. Right?

[Sam Dine]

Well, what's the point of them going there? So they already sent Don Jr. There, they sent Charlie Kirk there. They held Greenland, held this election in which the, this party that had never done well suddenly did well because they were running against ostensibly Trump's influence. Like, what's the point of sending JD And Usha there? To your point, why not just like, do it?

[Tim Miller]

I think that this is the. Learning from Putin. Who's the model? The first try here is to just, can we, can we just corrupt the political system there and obtain. And obtain Greenland via smoking bears and Trump's political pressure and celebrity and maybe money may crypto. I don't know, maybe we'll throw them a few, you know, a little bit of. See if you can do Trump coins.

[JVL]

Right? See if you can convince somebody in Greenland.

[Sam Dine]

But they tried.

[JVL]

Only 50,000 people.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, they tried that. It didn't work. I think if you're being really nefarious about it, you know, maybe this is where you're hinting at JBL is like, you try to spark something like on the ground there, like some sort of like, you know, confrontation or riot or something like that. When you send someone there, create a pretext, right.

[Tim Miller]

You know, there are only like 41,000 people in Greenland, I think. I mean, so you could, honestly, at that point, you could just go door to door and just try to find the person to be the spark. That's not like anybody here want to.

[JVL]

Shoot the Archduke of Ferdinand.

[Tim Miller]

56,000 people. And that is like a state House district in New Jersey. And you could really just do a door to door campaign.

[JVL]

Honestly. Honestly, just go write a check for 1 billion American dollars or Trump coin half of the people in Greenland and say, vote for us to write. I mean, you could do that. Yeah, like just literally pay people off. It's a small enough group.

[Sam Dine]

I agree with Tim, though. Make a Trump coin. You got. You want to profit from the head.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I like. I like the idea. So if you're watching and you're One of the 56,000 people in Greenland, suggest to your new government that they not allow J.D. vance in. Because I think that's a great suggestion.

[JVL]

It doesn't make any sense why they would. No, that's weak. You got to show strength.

[Tim Miller]

You do have to show strength.

[JVL]

I've learned anything. You have to show strength. You got to respond very strongly, very strongly at the border. If you don't. You know Americans, they're not sending us their best.

[Tim Miller]

And they said in the group chat that they loathe our European allies. Loathe. And that was in a private chat.

[JVL]

So, I mean, freeloaders. It seems like it. Okay, some Tesla news. Can we talk about Tesla news? Really, really great stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Canadians. I saw our Sam's friends up in Canada are no longer providing rebates to people for Teslas. You know, if you buy a clean car, you get a rebate. Not for Tesla anymore. Tough.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, I saw some. I saw a Financial Times article. European sales of Tesla like completely tanking. Something like 73% down.

[JVL]

Let me tell you about that. So we have numbers now for the first two months in Europe. Overall EV sales in Europe up 31%. So EVs selling like hotcakes in Europe. A third, third increase.

[Sam Dine]

Wow.

[JVL]

Tesla sales at the same time down 43%. It is very hard to lose nearly half of your. Your market volume, not share, but your volume when the overall market is growing by a third. They are on pace right now to sell 67,000 cars in Europe for this year. That's if they hold where they are now.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah.

[JVL]

I mean, that is astonishing. And I want to, I want to. I'm putting this in the newsletter today. This is YouTube. I understand the YouTube audience doesn't. Doesn't read the newsletter. It's fine with me.

[Tim Miller]

It's not true. Everyone is reading your newsletter. Your newsletter is the most read newsletter anywhere on the Internet.

[Sam Dine]

I don't know about that.

[Tim Miller]

Who are you competing with? Maybe Heather Cox Richardson as you beat.

[JVL]

So I want to, I want to. I want to ask you for a moment if you can think of a bigger brand disaster than what has happened to Tesla.

[Sam Dine]

Oh, yeah.

[JVL]

And while you think I'm going to give you. I did some digging on this. A quick component which is when Tylenol. You guys are probably both too young to remember this.

[Sam Dine]

No, I know what you're about to say. Yeah.

[JVL]

So in October, I Don't.

[Tim Miller]

I'm too young.

[JVL]

In October of 1982, seven people were killed by Tylenol because somebody had contaminated Tylenol in the Midwest and snuck cyanide into it. Tylenol's response was to pull every caplet of Tylenol off the shelf all over the country and destroy them. And then stand up an entire new method of sealing these things and then manufacture the baseload of Tylenol all over again. Anyway, with this, they only lost 7% of their market share over the course of that year. 7%. And they killed seven people. If Tesla. If Teslas had started driving around and killing their drivers and Tesla had to simply brick every Tesla that had currently already been made and just start all over with their manufacturing processes, they probably would be doing better now than they are.

[Tim Miller]

It regained some trust.

[JVL]

And instead, I just don't think there's a bottom because they have the guy who owns the company telling people that he's a Nazi. He likes Nazis, he salutes like a Nazi, he backs the Neo Nazi party, and that he hates you. Unless you are a very specific type of person, he hates you.

[Sam Dine]

It's a horrible brand failure. It's hard to see way out other than trying to like, get stronger footholds in China or hope the Russians, I guess, start buying EVs. I don't know. Even that wouldn't probably do. Well, you asked for a comparison. I have a few. They're not exact.

[Tim Miller]

Exciting.

[Sam Dine]

All right. Enron comes to mind. Wasn't a great company. Hold on. Jared from the Subway.

[JVL]

Oh, that's good.

[Sam Dine]

Jared at Subway. That did not go well. That was tough to survive after that.

[JVL]

Very tough for Jared.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, I guess.

[Tim Miller]

Kind of.

[Sam Dine]

New Coke. I don't know. Those are the ones that I have.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, those are good. I also had Endrod in my mind and as well as new cook, I.

[JVL]

Could think it was Value Jet, which I don't know if you guys remember Value Jet, but Value Jet had one of the most horrific air crashes ever. A Value Jet crashed into the Florida Everglades. And it was one of these things where all of the bodies were getting eaten by gators, which is one of these like, like a Faces of Death level horror. And they changed the name of the company.

[Joe]

They were like, hey, everyone, welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Serena]

And I'm Serena and we are here.

[Joe]

With the Iheart Music Awards and David's.

[Serena]

Bridal who are sponsoring this podcast and we are so grateful to them.

[Joe]

Thank you. Thank you for finishing my sentence. And we are here with our favorites, Dot and Charity.

[Serena]

Where were you in bikinis in the snow?

[Charity]

Montana.

[Serena]

Okay. She flew out and joined you guys.

[Tim Miller]

Isn't it cold?

[Charity]

No, it was we.

[Serena]

Well, yeah. Bikinis in the snow.

[Charity]

We risk getting hypo thermia for those photos.

[JVL]

Wow.

[Serena]

They were sick though.

[Joe]

I don't get bikinis in the snow.

[Serena]

Just like an aesthetic.

[Joe]

I don't know if him and I did that. If we did like Speedos in the snow, you guys would be like douchebags.

[Charity]

I would be like, let's see it. Come on. I would not complain to do stuff like that. He's like, no.

[Serena]

That's going to be the name of this podcast episode. Bachelor Happy Hour, Speedos in the Snow, David's Bridal.

[Sam Dine]

If you're listening.

[Joe]

Branding a little bit.

[Safeway Advertiser]

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[Joe]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Bach yout Happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Serena]

And I'm Serena and we are here.

[Joe]

With the I Heart Music Awards and.

[Serena]

David's Bridal who are sponsoring this podcast and we are so grateful to them.

[Joe]

Thank you. Thank you for finishing my sentence. And we are here with our favorites, Dot and Charity.

[Serena]

Where were you in bikinis in the snow?

[Charity]

Montana.

[Serena]

Okay. She flew out and joined you guys.

[Joe]

Isn't it cold?

[Charity]

No, it was we.

[Serena]

Well, yeah. Bikinis in the snow.

[Charity]

Getting hypothermia for those photos.

[Tim Miller]

Wow.

[Serena]

They were sick though.

[Joe]

I don't get bikinis in the snow.

[Serena]

Just like an aesthetic.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I don't know if him and I did that. If we did like Speedos in the snow, you guys would be like douchebag backs.

[Charity]

I would be like, let's see it. Come on. I would not complain to do stuff like that. He's like, no.

[Serena]

That's going to be the name of this podcast episode. Bachelor Happy Hour, Speedos in the Snow, David's Bridal.

[Joe]

If you're listening to branding a little.

[Serena]

Bit, sponsored by David's Bridal Bridal, Speedos.

[Charity]

In the Snow.

[Safeway Advertiser]

With the stock up sale at Safeway and Albertsons Stock up and earn four times points at your local store when you purchase participating products. Save now on your favorite beverages from Red bull, coke, monster 7up, body armor, and Pepsi. Clip the offer in the app for event savings and look for participating items throughout the store. Shop in store or online. Plus, you can even have your groceries delivered or use. Drive up and go to have your groceries brought to your car at the store. Restrictions and exclusions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[JVL]

So we. We also have news that the FBI is shifting agents onto a Tesla task force.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah.

[JVL]

To go after people who vandalized Teslas.

[Tim Miller]

Is that public? That's reported.

[JVL]

That is reported. That's why I put it on this. We. We had heard it through channels. Yeah, but now it's been publicly reported. You guys have thoughts on this? Is that how we keep America safe?

[Sam Dine]

You know, it's. There's. We talked to him. I talked about this about a week ago, but it's an amazing amount of government resources now being devoted to help.

[JVL]

Tesla, and it's against government waste.

[Sam Dine]

I thought we were against crony capitalism and all that stuff. We have the Commerce Department, the Commerce Secretary literally saying, buy Tesla stock, which was insane. The President doing a Tesla showcase from the South Lawn. Then we have the FBI now doing this. Come on down. Get your cyber truck. The. The DOJ is also looking to. Like, I'm all for. Obviously, we should.

[Tim Miller]

Dhs. Christy, no one put out a press. No. Both. No, Christy. No.

[Sam Dine]

No.

[Tim Miller]

Yes. I'll pull this up while you. While you keep ran. I'll pull this up.

[Sam Dine]

You Google it. My point is it's still valid. I'm fine with them looking into people who are, you know, setting fire to Teslas and all the vandalism stuff. But, like, this is a severe amount of government resources, and rededicating FBI agents to a task force specific for this one company is extraordinary. Extraordinary wasteful. There are other things that I'm sure the FBI can do in addition to this. We don't need a dedicated task force.

[Tim Miller]

So DHS is involved because of domestic terror. That's true. They put out a statement. They considered the attacks on Tesla to be domestic terrorists. So that's under the.

[Sam Dine]

Are we going to deport these people to El Salvador? Have we? Is that possible?

[Tim Miller]

Yes. Chamath suggested that.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Chamath Palihapatia. Mayflower. American Chamath Palihapatia wants to start.

[Sam Dine]

So if you set fire to a Tesla charging station, you could end up in El Salvadorian prison.

[Tim Miller]

Even if you're a citizen.

[Sam Dine]

If you're a citizen, what the fuck?

[JVL]

Again, like, this is all. It's all like the signal stuff. It's all like the. Nothing there was classified. But also, Jeff Goldberg shouldn't release the things because it's sensitive. If you vandalize a Tesla, that is domestic terrorism. However, we're going to pardon everybody who has been convicted of January 6th crimes. And now President Trump says that they're looking very strongly into a compensation fund. Yeah, reparations. Yeah. Republicans finally came around to reparations.

[Sam Dine]

It's. It took a while not to the.

[JVL]

Family of slaves to wipe the. The guy who wore the Camp Auschwitz shirt. He needs reparations. Cool.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, about this. Last night we were trying to take bets about who. Who in Congress would introduce the reparations bill. First he went with Marjorie Taylor Greene, which I think is too easy. I'm going with someone else. I like that Brandon Gill guy down in Texas, I think.

[Tim Miller]

Brandon Gill, that's a good pick. Tim, what do you think about the reparations?

[Sam Dine]

Yeah, Tim's four.

[Tim Miller]

After we do this, I'm about to. I'm about to reappear on Piers Morgan. I took a couple months off of doing the yellow yelling at maga's content, but I just. I have too much anger in my. In my system these days to. To just, you know, kind of let it out on all you guys, you know, and I'm tired. I'm letting it out on slack. You know, Sebastian's getting the brunt of my. Of my kind of blood. Blood pressure rising. And so I need to let it out on some magazine. And. And so one of the people that want the reparations is on with me today, so I'm excited to explore it with him. Brandon Straka, I guess the guy that was. Did. The former Democrat that then became a MAGA and then was at the Capitol. He didn't actually attack.

[Sam Dine]

He's going on piers.

[Tim Miller]

He's going on piers. Yes. We're gonna be out together here in just a little bit.

[Sam Dine]

How much reparations does he want?

[Tim Miller]

Personally, I think he wants legal. Like, pay for the. Legal.

[Sam Dine]

Pay. Pay for the fees.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Pay for the fees, etc. And I, I don't. I think that's going to happen. I don't. I don't know why that wouldn't happen.

[JVL]

Where.

[Sam Dine]

Where are they going to get the money?

[Tim Miller]

Would they even need to get it from Congress? Couldn't. DOJ couldn't.

[Sam Dine]

Some slush fund that DOJ has just lying Around.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, either. We're not investigating, we're not looking into criminals anymore. No, we're looking at the Tesla.

[JVL]

Tesla.

[Tim Miller]

Vandals. Vandals. One people, one class of criminal say mean things about Elon Musk. Oh, we didn't Even mention the U.S. attorney in D.C. is using resources to go after. And. And the new U.S. attorney in New Jersey, Alina Haba, probably just to go after people that, that criticize or vandalize Elon Musk. So, you know, like, I think that we probably get a lot of resources line around the doj. These, the types of traditional expensive investigations that they undertook. You know, going after kingpins, drug kingpins, you know, people that. Selling weapons across state lines, white collar criminals. We're not doing any of that anymore.

[JVL]

Well, I assume that these guys think that the government works the way Fox does, where there's just a pool of money to pay off the people who, who need to be paid off.

[Tim Miller]

Well, but are they wrong? Could they not do a settlement?

[Sam Dine]

I'm sure there's.

[JVL]

Why would. Pays money, you know, for, you know, for suits that are against it. Right. Wrongful imprisonment and that.

[Sam Dine]

That is victim settlement suit funds.

[JVL]

It happens to police departments, to city fire department. This is a thing that happens. Right. So why not Just a question about the. The scale would be. It is. I mean, am I the only one who's disconcerted by all this stuff? Because you put this with.

[Tim Miller]

I'm pretty dis.

[JVL]

What are they doing? They're signing executive orders to go after law firms that represent clients that they don't like or who employ lawyers who they don't like that they're very keyed up on.

[Sam Dine]

Yeah.

[JVL]

Catching actual criminals, like, I don't know, aren't we, Aren't we already at soft authoritarianism?

[Sam Dine]

Yes, absolutely. The legal stuff is. The legal stuff is really, I mean, almost underappreciated. But I, I should disclose. I have a sister. My sister's at one of these firms that's been targeted. So just full disclosure. But you know, they're. They're perverting justice here. Right. It's like if you dare to take a side against the administration, they're going to try to put you out of business. That's what they're doing. They're trying to put you out of business. And, um, it's quite chilling. I think it's soft authoritarianism. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

You know, it's Orban, it's shakedown. I mean, I think that you can maybe quibble because what they're doing with like at airports and with immigration is mostly with, like, green visa holders. Right. So. Right. You know, this is dipping a toe in the water. But, I mean, look, the Miami Herald story about the guy that followed the refugee process, waited in a third country for two years, did everything right. Just sent to San Salvador with no due process. The woman. That was the Korean woman, they're chasing down a Columbia student.

[Sam Dine]

They're literally chasing down a Columbia student. It's crazy. She's a valedictorian who attended a pro Palestinian protest.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And got a ticket, I guess. I guess she got a ticket for being outside the. The, you know, one of the buildings that were being occupied. Again, it wasn't like a leader of the group. So all of these people are kind of on visas, but none of them are getting due process. And to me, it all, you know, it's like testing the doorknobs of authority. So I don't know where you want to, you know, put it on. What's the stupid clock that they have? The nuclear. The nuclear doomsday clock. The doomsday clock. We're at 11:57. Like, I don't know where we're at on the, on the, on the authoritarianism clock. But, like, they're testing it.

[Sam Dine]

And I think that the thing that, you know, obviously it's troubling that they're testing it. For me, I guess the other troubling thing is just how little pushback they're getting for it. Right. Like, obviously, we're complaining and we're pushing back and reporting on it, and there's plenty of people who are raising hell. But, like, you know, we've all covered the acquiescence of the institutions. Columbia, Paul Weiss. I mean, but it's not just that. It's like, you know, for instance, on the law firm stuff, there's two real firms that are kind of aligned with Trump in D.C. sullivan and Cromwell and Jones Day. Okay. They have a choice in front of them. Do they represent the institutions of the law and stand up against what Trump's doing, which you would think is an appropriate thing to do, or do you just stay quiet because you like the business from Trump? I've put in requests for comments to both firms. They're not responding. They're just going to stay quiet. And that's all well and good, because they're going to get plenty of clients. They'll have their, you know, audience with the president. The lobbying business will be great. But, you know, that's. That. That's the problem here, is that they've Gone. Put it this way, it's been an easy step towards authoritarianism for Trump.

[Tim Miller]

Jbl, this ties back to your point at the top about why the classified information element is the least concerning. And the fact that there's no accountability, there's no structures, no process.

[Sam Dine]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

Like, that ties to this. Right. So if you look, you know, sometimes when you talk about, oh, like, these are authoritarian tactics, like, you hear. We hear from people in the comments. I'll get emails or texts from people that are like, well, you know, this kind of stuff's happened before. Obviously you go back to, you know, internment camps or whatever. And if you just go back to the Bush administration, look at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo as examples of relative things that you could missay are comparable to what's happening in San Salvador, etc. Even in, like, all those situations, there was never a moment where people were like, there's never going to be any investigation into any of this. Right. Like, there's no. Like, the Bush administration will just ignore a U.S. attorney or a judge that wants to weigh in on all the. Right. Like. Like, sure. Like, they pushed the edges. You know, there was the John, you. You know, memorandum they used to defend the fact that they could act extra, extra constitutionally. So it's not as if there haven't been times where. Where other administrations have pushed the boundaries or gone overboard on what there's constitutionally allowed. But, like, that is the unique part here. Like, we're seeing this stuff happening, and across the board, across all institutions, there's, like, no expectation that there's recourse. And I do think that's really what is. What is meaningfully different.

[Joe]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Bach yout Happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Serena]

And I'm Serena.

[Joe]

And we are here with the Iheart Music Awards and David's Bridal, who are sponsoring this podcast.

[Serena]

And we are so grateful to them.

[Joe]

Thank you. Thank you for finishing my sentence. And we are here with our favorites, Dot and Charity.

[Serena]

Where were you in bikinis in the snow?

[Charity]

Montana.

[Serena]

Okay. She flew out and joined you guys.

[Joe]

Isn't it cold?

[Charity]

No, it was. We.

[Serena]

Well, yeah. Bikinis in the snow.

[Charity]

We risk getting hypothermia for those photos.

[JVL]

Wow.

[Serena]

They were sick, though.

[Joe]

I don't get bikinis in the snow.

[Serena]

Just like, an aesthetic.

[Charity]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Thank you.

[Joe]

If him and I did that, if we did, like, speedos in the snow, you guys would be like, douchebags.

[Charity]

I would be like, let's see it. I would not complain. I beg him to do stuff like that.

[Serena]

He's like, no, that's gonna be the name of this podcast episode. Bachelor Happy Hour Speedos in the Snow.

[Joe]

David's Bridal if you're listening, branding a little bit.

[Serena]

Sponsored by David's Bridal Bridal Speedos in.

[Charity]

The Snow Room anywhere.

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[JVL]

So I got a question for both of you before we get out because we got a heart out here and I ask you to play armchair psychologist for a broad group of people, institutions. But do you think if you are a senior partner at one of these firms or you are the president of Columbia or you are, take your pick, right, you know, on the board of Meta or something, do they think to themselves, you know what, we just got to be right with this thing for four years and then it'll pass, or do they think we got to get right with this because this is the future?

[Sam Dine]

Well, I'll go first and I granted.

[JVL]

This is a distinction without a difference, but I am curious, as a matter of psychology, do they know what time it is?

[Sam Dine]

Yeah. So my, my understanding just from asking around, I'll just speak to the Paul Weiss component of this because I think that's a, that's the right, that's a good microcosm of the situation. I know nothing about the Columbia thing. I think for Columbia, $400 million is a lot even for a well endowed institution. But put that aside. Paul Weiss, Paul Weiss decides they're going to settle with Trump and the question is why? Why not just fight it? And the question that you're asking is do they think we just got to get to the right side of this and bear for four years or this is just the future and you have to deal with this guy. My understanding from talking with people in that situation is that they felt that they could maneuver their way through it so that it was essentially, this is a four year thing, just get through it and that they had these hard, these negotiations with Trump people in the background and that they thought that they came out of that pretty well situated. They didn't really have to make any sacrifices that they weren't willing to make already. The DEI stuff wasn't even in the memorandum. They didn't mention the pro bono work. They're already going to do a lot of that pro bono work. And like, what's wrong with defending kids who are being attacked for being Jewish on campus? Like they. The problem was that, and this is always the problem, is that Trump runs out, spins the settlement the way he spins the settlement, presents them as cowering, which they really did, and then suddenly they look like assholes. And that's why their chairman had to issue a second email to staff defending himself, because it was withering criticism. So, yes, I think they believe that they could survive. If they could just survive four years, everything will be all right. And then they learned a really quick, hard lesson, which is no, in fact, this is the new reality and you're going to get worked.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I don't think any of these people are thinking about 2029. I think it's a minute by minute calculation that people are making. It's short term calculations, it's quarterly earnings mindset. And I think that is what explains most of this. But the thing that frustrates me about it all is like in a lot of these cases, I just, I kind of reject just the assumption that acquiescing is even the medium term play for many. Like in some of these cases. Certainly it is many of these. I hear what you're saying about Columbia, Sam, but like Columbia has a huge endowment. Like Columbia would have been able to, could have gone to some of the gazillionaire donors that they have and said, hey, we're going to fight this. And they would have put more money in. They have a backslid stop. They would have gotten like from kid, like a much, you know, a huge influx of excitement about people wanting to come to the universe. You know what I mean? Like, it's a riskier play.

[Sam Dine]

I agree with that.

[Tim Miller]

It's a riskier play, no doubt. But like it's so, so to me it's caution and short term thinking that is, that is what is driving.

[JVL]

You know what's funny? The bad guys are always willing to make sacrifices. So like Colombia looks at this and is like, oh, $400 million. You guys remember Bob Jones University? Sure, of course, yeah, Bob Jones University, which had a, a racial segregation policy, basically, like, you know, no interracial dating in the student body. And you know, like the Justice Department I think came out, maybe it was DOE and basically was like, yeah, you know, no, no federal funds. If you don't get rid of this, Bob Jones was like, you take your federal funds, we don't care. Why? Why is it that Bob Jones can do that for their racism, but Columbia can't do that for liberalism? I don't understand.

[Sam Dine]

No, it's totally fair.

[JVL]

All right, boys, good show. Medium length show, average length show. Hit, subscribe hit like follow the channel. We'll see you next week and I'm sure by then everything will have worked itself out. Good luck, America.

[Tim Miller]

Peace.

[Sam Dine]

Bye.

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