In this conversation with philosopher Dr. Philip Goff, we dive into one of the deepest questions in science and philosophy: what if consciousness isn’t produced by the brain—what if it’s fundamental to reality?

We explore panpsychism, the “hard-to-ignore” problem of subjective experience, why physics may describe what matter does but not what it is, and what it would mean if even the smallest building blocks of nature contain a spark of experience.

Philip Goff’s work:
Website: https://philipgoffphilosophy.com/
Substack: https://philipgoff.substack.com/

In this episode:

What consciousness is (and why it’s so hard to explain)
Why brain scans don’t “find” experience
The core argument for panpsychism
Galileo’s legacy: how modern science set consciousness aside
What physics really tells us about matter
Implications for meaning, spirituality, and mystical experience
AI and consciousness: are LLMs “aware” of anything?

Chapters:
00:00 What if consciousness isn’t made by the brain?
00:14 Pansychism in one sentence (a conscious universe)
00:40 Why consciousness breaks science’s “objective” method
01:16 Welcome + Durham vs California weather
02:35 What is consciousness? “What it’s like to be you”
03:38 Goff vs Anil Seth / Donald Hoffman (physicalism vs panpsychism)
05:10 Why consciousness is so hard to explain (objective vs subjective)
07:49 The “dogs → plants → atoms” ladder into panpsychism
08:34 Galileo’s move: taking consciousness out of science
10:23 The bold claim: even atoms/particles have experience
11:43 Plant intelligence + pea-plant learning (Monica Gagliano)
14:02 Why extend mind to the “inanimate” world?
15:14 Unifying what Galileo split: matter + experience
16:17 Consciousness as fundamental (not “emergent”) + Maxwell analogy
18:54 What panpsychism claims (and doesn’t)
19:08 Russell & Eddington: physics tells what matter does, not what it is
21:44 “Matter is what consciousness does” (the core framing)
23:16 Consciousness isn’t publicly observable (why the “hard problem” persists)
26:56 Flipping the project: start with consciousness first
33:04 Sponsor: Finding Your Best (Michael Gervais)
34:00 Flow, mystical experience, and taking inner experience seriously
36:01 Groupthink, rigor, and why “woo” ideas get dismissed
37:46 William James on trusting mystical experience
40:21 Nick’s Auschwitz experience + the limits of science
42:01 Value, depth, meaning—what experiences seem to reveal
44:26 “Science isn’t the complete story” (logic, math, value, consciousness)
46:59 Sponsor: Zapier + AI agents
49:19 AI and consciousness: is there “something it’s like” to be an LLM?
51:47 The Turing Test and redefining “thought” as behavior
54:12 Why Goff thinks LLMs aren’t conscious (and what would be)
57:54 No consensus in consciousness science + philosophy inside the lab
1:01:26 The question keeping Goff up: math, logic, and Gödel
1:05:40 What shift does Goff hope you take away?
1:07:42 Where to find Goff’s work + closing thoughts
1:09:50 Outro: ask questions, reject the status quo, stay curious

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Ask questions,
Don't accept the status quo,
And be curious.

#Consciousness #Panpsychism #PhilipGoff #Philosophy #Neuroscience #Science #AI #Mind