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- [00:01]
A
Audio for sleep by hatch. Hello and good evening, everyone. I'm Josh.
- [00:28]
B
And I'm Ian. Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to rest.
- [00:36]
A
Ian, it's so nice to have you with us tonight on the Nightly. We've been bringing in so many fun, cool, interesting guests into the pillow fort this summer. And this week I am joined by my friend, the wonderful podcaster, Ian Chillag, who you may know from his podcast Everything is Alive and how to Do Everything with npr. And he's also a producer on Wait, wait, don't tell me where we work together frequently. Ian, welcome to the Nightly.
- [01:02]
B
It's so nice to be here. I was hoping, given the format of the show, that we might record it spooning one another.
- [01:10]
A
We can try.
- [01:12]
B
I feel like just audio wise, it's a challenge.
- [01:14]
A
Yeah. I feel like we would probably pick up in each other's microphones or at least the little spoon would pick up both big spoon and little spoon's audio.
- [01:25]
B
That must be the reason most radio shows don't record in spoon format.
- [01:30]
A
Yeah, honestly, I don't know of one that does. And it makes me feel like there's not enough experimentation going on.
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B
That's right.
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C
That's right.
- [01:42]
B
I was in Chicago last week for a wait, wait, don't tell me event, and I used to live in Chicago and I used to go to the zoo almost every day because I would run to work and the zoo was halfway between the wait, wait office and my apartment.
- [02:01]
C
Wow.
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B
And. But I haven't lived there for 10 years and I got to go through the zoo again. And when you go to the zoo regularly, it stops feeling like you're going to see the animals and it starts feeling like you're going to visit them. Like you have this regular relationship. Like, let me see what the lion is up to today. Let me see what the polar bear's into right now. It's a, it's a sort of, it's a nice feeling, like all those things that maybe we feel a little weird about zoos sometimes when you go enough and you have a relationship with the animals, those things go away and it just, it only feels good.
- [02:44]
A
Was there an animal or a set of animals, a group of animals that you were like, most regularly checking in on and found most, like, pleasant to check in with in the morning on the way to work?
- [02:55]
B
Absolutely. There was so that zoo. So I would like, I said I would run there in the, like all year round. And Chicago gets so cold and gray and dark in the winter and some Days when it would have been 10 degrees for six weeks and then it would suddenly be just above freezing and you would go, and the flamingos would be out. And it felt so out of place. Like that much color felt so out of place. And that was always such a nice feeling, like something so optimistic. Like when they turn on the color in wizard of Oz, it's like, yes, we are here. But my favorite animal there was. There's an enclosure with African wild dogs, which. The thing I liked about them at that zoo was most animals, they, you will look at them and they will do their thing and maybe they will notice you're there, but for the most part they don't care. But the African wild dogs make you feel like you're the one on display. Like they run to the edge of the enclosure and they look at you with this look on their face, like, what is that thing? What is it doing?
- [04:11]
A
And what was your reaction to their scrutiny and follow up question, did it ever get. Did they ever seem to recognize you as one of the regular.
- [04:25]
B
I definitely felt like, I mean, it's probably that that's what I wanted, but it definitely felt like, oh, yeah, there's. Hey, Ian's back. How's Ian doing? But like, it only feels good. It feels like. That must be what it feels like to be a kind of minor celebrity where you get a little bit of a second look, not so much that they're in your business, but like, huh, that guy. Yeah, oh, yeah, I know that guy. I've seen him somewhere before.
- [04:49]
A
It does like, it has. What you're describing sounds like kind of the same feeling of encountering a neighbor who you don't really know, but you have kind of like a refillable small talk bucket with them, you know?
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
Where you're like, oh, we're all part of the fabric of this community. We're not too much in each other's business. But like, I recognize your place here and you recognize mine.
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C
Yeah.
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B
I will never ask that man about anything except the New York Knicks, but I will absolutely ask him about the New York Knicks.
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A
Of course, of course. I grew up in a small town in Massachusetts that had, for the size of the town, like a pretty substantial zoo. It wasn't like the main Boston area Zoo, but I think it was. I mean, in my memory it was comparable because it was in town, but like, I don't know if it was vastly smaller and I'm just like inflating it because of proximity in a sense of importance, but we had in My small Massachusetts town, the notable feature,
- [05:52]
C
the
- [05:52]
A
best enclosure was probably either the mountain goats, because they would climb up a little rock face. It was very fun to watch them free, spry, or the otters splashing around. That was really fun. But the most striking and, I think, memorable animal that. That lived in my town was. We had a polar bear for years in. In suburban Massachusetts.
- [06:19]
B
You made it sound like maybe the polar bear was not at the zoo. He was just. He just had an apartment in town. Okay, okay.
- [06:25]
A
No, no, no. Living at the zoo. Yeah, yeah, living at the zoo. He. He didn't have, like. Like, an apartment and ran a little business. But, yeah, I. Whether male or female polar bear, I remember the name Major. Major was, as, you know, Ursa Major. And it was always, like, very, I think, you know, kind of a joke amongst everyone in town of, like, have you seen our polar bear that we have on display, like, nine miles outside of Boston? It felt like a pretty. You know, I'm sure they kept the temperature correct in the enclosure, but like, a very funny place for a polar bear to be.
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B
Yeah. That polar bear has no idea how he ended up there.
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A
Yeah, for sure. And possibly no idea, like, what life is like for other polar bears.
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B
Oh, my gosh.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I mean, and I imagine there are no mirrors in the polar bear enclosure. The polar bear may not even realize it's a polar bear. It may just think it's one of you. It's just a Massachusetts guy.
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A
Yeah, it's just like a. A big, furry Red Sox fan we
- [07:36]
B
saw when I was at the zoo last week in Chicago. The polar bear, they have one of those things where you can see it on land, but then you can go below and see it underwater.
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A
Oh, fine.
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B
It was swimming back and forth, and it's so beautiful. And that's an animal where, if you know nothing about it, you would think it wants you to get in there with it. Like, everything. The proportions are so childlike, with, like, big paws and a big head. And it just. There's something sweet about their faces, which I guess if you are a thing that likes to kill everything, that's a good quality because it draws things near you. But there's something so tempting about it.
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A
I know. And it kind of like, especially in the water, it doesn't move in through the water in, like, an aggressive way. It's kind of like boom, boom, boom, you know, bobbing along and swimming in a way that you're like, oh, I bet it's nice in there.
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B
Yeah, it looks like it's on vacation when it's in there.
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A
Totally. You get why the polar bear is such a, like, iconic image of like kind of a friendly Christmas time figure.
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B
Totally. And you know, when we. So we looked at it under the water and then we rounded the corner after we watched it for a while, and the first thing you see when you round the corner at the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago is a Coca Cola vending machine. And it just felt like, wow, it's
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A
a perfect sales pitch.
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B
Like, did they know that seeing a polar bear, I would start salivating for ice cold Coca Cola?
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A
Totally. It is an incredible immersive marketing experience.
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B
I hope the polar bear gets a cut.
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A
They better. They deserve it. They deserve some extra salmon for that work as a brand ambassador.
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B
So I understand we have a caller on the line with a question. Do you want to introduce yourself for us?
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C
Yeah, hey, my name is Jacob. My question is for you guys. What do you think is the fastest animal you can beat in a one mile race?
- [10:01]
A
Oh, that's an incredible question, Ian. You're a runner.
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B
I am, yes. Yeah. Okay, so it's, it's one mile and are we just thinking about speed or are we thinking about temperament? Like, like a cheetah is very, very fast, but I just imagine that it doesn't have a long attention span, so it's going to want to take breaks. So should we factor in personality as we take on this question?
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A
I think yes, because if we're factoring in our own personalities, it makes sense to factor in the animal's personality too.
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C
Yeah.
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B
You may also want to take breaks like the cheetah.
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A
Yeah, well, and I think because we're talking about an animal, so I don't think they get a jockey. You know what I mean? I don't think. I think it's just starting line, go.
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B
Oh, yeah. Okay.
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A
Unless, Jacob, unless you have other stipulations, I would love to hear if you have any additional context.
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C
I mean, I was. The way I was thinking about it, because I was thinking about this. I got invited to one of the worst things you can get invited to as a, as an adult who doesn't run, which is to participate in a 5K.
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A
Oh, sure.
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C
And so I've been running recently and I have a. I have a doodle, I have a dog, and I've been trying to see if the dog can come in and run with me. And the short answer is no. My dog likes running for about 500ft. And then it's like from, from that Disney movie. It just goes squirrel and Tries running off to the side.
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A
Sure.
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C
So I'm trying to picture. Okay. If I could get my dog to focus.
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A
Okay.
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C
Could I beat it over a mile? And I think I can beat a doodle in a race. If we're talking other dogs, like a greyhound. I think a greyhound.
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A
Greyhound's very fast.
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B
Yeah. But the thing I like about a greyhound, whenever you see a greyhound in its civilian capacity, when it's just walking around as a pet, you get the sense that they absolutely. The last thing they want to do is run. They want to lie down all the time. So a mile feels like a long way. I read once that a wolf, which I guess is maybe the closest wild animal to the doodle you have a wolf can. It's either can run 30 miles an hour for 12 miles without stopping or 12 miles an hour for 30 miles without stopping. And either way that the wolf is going to beat me in the race.
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A
Yeah. That's an incredible feat of stamina. 12 miles an hour is 5 minute miles for 30 miles. So that's outrageous.
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B
Yeah.
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C
I think you, I think you have to cross off a large swath of the animal kingdom here. Like any, any savannah animal. Horse, zebra, gazelle, like all of those immediately off the table.
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A
Yes.
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C
None of those. I'm, I think I'm even coming close to. But then there's some other ones where it's like, you know, they say I'm from Florida originally. I know an alligator is fast, but an alligator is fast for a really short distance when it really wants to eat you over a mile, I'm out running. That, that, that it has, those legs are too tiny. It's not getting anywhere close to me.
- [13:13]
A
I agree. Yeah, I think I could probably beat an alligator, especially like if we're talking because I think if I started running and an alligator were chasing me, it might be able to run me down before it got tired. But if we're just side by side kind of cordoned off from one another, where I'm not, I'm not an enticement culinarily for this alligator, I think, I think I have a better chance.
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B
I picture Josh, I picture you and the alligator each in your own lane, each chasing something you want to eat.
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A
Oh, that's good.
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B
So the alligator, there's. Maybe there's another human and then you. So what's, what's gonna get you to run your fastest mile, do you think?
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A
I think it would be, not necessarily a. Something I want to eat, but like a thirst quenching beverage out ahead of me, like an iced coffee I think would be exactly like. I would run towards an iced coffee for a mile very quickly knowing that that was at the end. Because I think if it was like, you know, like a big turkey leg, like a cartoon seeing a mirage on a desert island, I'd be like, that does not seem appealing right now. Ian, what do you think? Like what, what is your starting animal that you're like, I know I'm faster than this one. Let's. Maybe I could do a faster one
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B
if I need to guarantee the victory. Yeah, I think that. I think I can run 12 miles an hour for one mile. I think I can do that.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah, I can do that.
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A
So you could do a five minute mile for one mile?
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B
Yeah, but no further.
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A
No further.
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B
That's gonna be my max. You mentioned the doodle chasing a squirrel. I do think a squirrel. Squirrel versus man, one on one for one mile. I think that's gonna be a good race.
- [15:03]
A
I've never seen. I wonder how far a squirrel likes to run because I've only seen him kind of go along a power line. You know, we're talking hundreds of feet at a time. But I bet they've got more capacity in them if they need to unleash it.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so hard to imagine. It's. It feels like we're the only species dumb enough to do this for pleasure.
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A
Right. And not for survival in one way or another. Escaping or chasing prey.
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C
I don't know if this is just like the hubris of man either. I feel like if you put me in separate lanes from a gorilla over one mile, I think I beat the gorilla.
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A
Interesting.
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C
How is it, do you think it. Do you think the gorilla runs on. On its two little legs and it's all puffed up in the chest or is it doing like the knuckles?
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A
I think the knuckles are involved. I'm picturing the kn.
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C
That's got to be so much energy. I don't think they can keep that up for a mile at a fast speed.
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A
Yeah, I bet. Gorilla. I was thinking, honestly where I started was chicken. I was like, I would. I think it would be fun to raise a chicken.
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B
They should reserve one lane at the Olympics for something from the some, some non human. Just like in the hundred meters it's the eight fastest people alive and one chicken. I think that would be so fun to watch.
- [16:27]
A
They did briefly, do you remember in like, I think probably the early aughts they did those like man versus animal TV specials where it'd be like A guy. Could a guy drag an airplane or something farther than an elephant? Or, like, how many people does it take to do that faster than an elephant? And those were, like, extremely. They did a couple. They were, like, extremely strange. And I think after you got past, like, speed and strength, the. It was hard to figure out roughly equitable competitions where you're like, we can't have them, like, play chess against each other.
- [17:04]
C
Yeah.
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B
I just like knowing so many runners, being a runner, knowing so many runners. I just worry about one of the animals getting way too into it. Like an armadillo who just will. We'll never stop talking about the Vectees training for a marathon.
- [17:22]
A
Yeah. Kind of a relentless runner. Armadillo.
- [17:26]
B
Like, lion. You actually need to be hunting wildebeest for your family. Just maybe don't run today.
- [17:35]
A
We don't care about your Strava statistics. Lion. Okay. I think I'm trying to think of, like, a faster animal than a chicken because I'm a slow runner. I'm not a good runner at all. So I think chicken. And I'm trying to think if there's anything faster.
- [17:53]
C
If we put you in the Aesop fable, do you think. Do you think you're beating the tortoise and the hare? Are you winning that? That three person.
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A
Okay, here's the thing. I think, yes, because I know I'm faster than a tortoise and I'm more competitive than a hare. So for sure I'm winning that. Although a hare. If a hare has learned from their previous mistake in the initial tortoise race, I might. I might be cooked.
- [18:17]
B
That story, by the way, has done more to harm track and field in the United States than any other. Because what you learn is slow and steady does not win the race. Really, really, really fast and steady wins the race.
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C
Right.
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A
You can have two good qualities.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Like, yes, pace yourself, but that pace has to be very, very, very fast if you want to win the race.
- [18:49]
A
Yeah. Well, especially, like, there's all these running metaphors and sayings that invoke slowness as virtue. Right. Where people go, hey, it's a marathon, not a sprint. You're like, marathon runners also run really fast. Not as fast as sprinters, but faster than, like, normal walking.
- [19:09]
C
For sure. That's all the people on the podium telling that to everyone behind it being like, no, you're fine back there. No, don't. Don't think this metal is so heavy. You don't. You. You really don't want this gold tacky. It's out of you don't want.
- [19:21]
A
It's a psyop by. By the. The medal winners. It's psychological warfare.
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B
Yeah. It's a marathon, not a sprint. But is there a third option? I don't want to do either of those things.
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A
It's just kind of a job.
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C
I think that's just a drive.
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A
Yeah, it's a drive. It's a drive, not a marathon or a sprint. You actually go really fast, and it expends very little energy. I was going to say Jacob. I did once hold a gold medal, and it was heavier than I expected, and I was expecting it to be kind of heavy. This was through. Ian, this is at a. Wait, wait, don't tell me. Recording in Bloomington. You were there, right?
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B
I put it on.
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A
You put it on.
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B
It was Lily King. Lily King Swim, the Olympic swimmer, was our guest, and she brought her gold medal. And I remember she brought it out, and everyone was like, everyone at the same time. You could see them wanting to ask, can I put it on?
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A
She was so gracious.
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B
No one could do it. Yeah, she's like.
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A
She just.
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B
She volunteered it. She said, you can wear it if you want. And all of us did.
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A
I just held it because for some reason, this is like going. Going back to my Massachusetts upbringing. I was like, well, anyone can hold a medal that's just, you know. But to wear it, I didn't earn that. I just showed up in the room where the medal was, and so I, like, didn't do it, which is like an ex. Extremely New England psychosis.
- [20:46]
B
I was fully comfortable with Stolen Valor.
- [20:49]
A
It's very cool. It is. It was both heavier than I expected and substantially shinier than I expected. Okay. I think we've given this, like, a. A lot of good thought and intentionality. We've considered a lot of different angles. Why don't we. I'll count to three, and then we all say the fastest animal we think we could outrun over a mile. One, two, three. Mongoose.
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B
Goat.
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C
Gorilla.
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A
You said gorilla. I said mongoose. Ian, what did you say?
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B
I said goat.
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A
Goat.
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B
Whoa.
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C
Oh, that's a good one.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Wow.
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B
That's gonna be a loud race. As the kind of guest host of this show, I am not familiar with the format, and part of me is a little bit afraid that at this point, Harry, the producer is going to come in and say, okay, we have a goat here. You have to race it one on one.
- [21:51]
A
But I think I could do it. I picked something intentionally with small legs because I've got big legs, but I tire easily and I was like, okay. Mongoose feels energetic, but not especially built for the task.
- [22:06]
C
We'll have to get you upgraded to my doodle at some point. See what you can do, Josh.
- [22:10]
A
All right. I'm trying to get up. That's my summer task is getting up to doodle speed.
- [22:14]
B
Just train your way up the food chain.
- [22:18]
A
Jacob, thank you so much for this question. This was really fun and it was so nice to meet you.
- [22:23]
B
Good luck in your 5k.
- [22:24]
C
Yes, thank you both.
- [22:27]
B
Well, I feel like having having answered that question definitively, I feel like it's kind of time to go to bed.
- [22:37]
A
Yeah. I'm feeling very satisfied and at ease with the conclusions of our conversation and I'm gonna wish you a good night, Ian. Good night to all our listeners and good night to Jacob's doodle. Sleep well, Doodle.
- [22:53]
B
And I'm gonna say goodnight to the Mongoose, which you will be racing shortly after we turn off here.
- [23:00]
A
I hope it gets a bad night's sleep cuz we got a competition in the morning.
- [24:42]
C
Sa.
- [25:07]
A
Sam sa. To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.