B (3:07)

Oh, that's so funny.

A (3:09)

So burn effigies of Guy Fawkes and set off fireworks. But that seems to start an end earlier and later every year. Like, it's a bit of a pain, to be honest, but, you know, it's. It's got its perks. It's all toffee apples and all that sort of stuff.

B (3:24)

Burn your fires at home. Don't come up here burning your fire. Get it out your system, see what happens.

A (3:31)

Don't mess about with the government. But everywhere.

B (3:33)

I feel like a lot of places celebrate Christmas at the very least for the consumerism and the joy and the holiday fun of it.

A (3:43)

Yeah, it's interesting as well how other countries sort of celebrate it, because famously in Japan, that Christmas dinner is kfc, isn't it? That's the tradition. And I've got a friend specifically went over to kind of see what it would be like spending the Christmas season over there, which I'm sort of jealous of, but I.

B (4:03)

That's wild.

A (4:04)

Yeah. I can't imagine sort of being anywhere else for Christmas, though. It's a weird feeling.

B (4:10)

One day I want to do a cruise for Christmas.

A (4:13)

A cruise sounds frightening because it's. At Christmas. It's hard enough on land to get away from family that you don't want to talk to.

B (4:21)

That's true.

A (4:21)

If you're actually trapped with them at sea.

B (4:24)

That's true. That's why you just go. You just go with the family you want to go with or a partner. And you're really skipping Christmas with, like, family. Because, like, nowadays people do travel and things like that, but travel is not as easy as it is in Europe, for instance, domestically or. Or in the UK domestically. So, like, once family members start to, like, splinter off and move away, having, like, full Christmases where everybody comes together isn't as much of a given as it used to be, unfortunately. You know, we really only have by plane, considering how far you live from. From someone. No trains across the country that are fast. You know, the Amtrak going from one state to one state will take almost 48 hours sometimes. So, yeah, it's rough.

A (5:23)

That is wild, isn't it?

B (5:26)

And one year we went to Florida, and we were taking the train back from Florida to Chicago. That took us over 50 hours to get, like. We slept twice on that train at night.

A (5:42)

50 hours, yeah.

B (5:44)

It was crazy.

A (5:46)

Was it one of those trains that's designed for sleeping on? Was it like, it had sleeper cars?

B (5:51)

Yeah, there are a few that have sleeper cars, but not every, you know, the majority of the people on the train are just sitting in regular, regular.

A (6:01)

Seats, man, for two days.

B (6:05)

It was whack. And the seats, like, the seats leaned down, but yeah, it was, it was a little whack. It was a little whack. And just so you know, like from Chicago to Florida is a little over 1200 miles. So, you know, okay, it's a nice little distance.

A (6:23)

I mean, that, it's a long, it's.

B (6:25)

A long way, but 43 hour train ride and then the trains are never on time or, or, you know, run efficiently.

A (6:35)

It was, it was it just going super slow or did it break down or something? What was that?

B (6:39)

No, go super slow. It stops a few times for no reason and it just goes really slow and you know, it makes stops along the way. But like, it was, it was, it was trash. And I was like, I want to do this anymore. So.

A (6:53)

Yeah, that'll put you off for life, that, won't it?

B (6:55)

That put me off for the rest of time, which is a beautiful transition because the thing you were excited about is something that I'm excited about as well. And as you know, it is drowsy history week here in the pillow fort. So I say it's time you play a round of drowsy history. Let's do it. Here's what's happening. I'm gonna prepare to tell you a history story all from memory. And if we get stuck, we can just, you know, rewrite what happens. Who cares? The history is whatever we make it, but funny and maybe not completely accurate, you know, so that's, that's what it is. And today, being from Chicago, I'm going to tell you the history of when Michael Jordan retired from basketball and his baseball career started through that career and his return to basketball. That is the history that I want to talk because it was a history that like permeated, like, even though it's sports, it permeated pop culture. And it is one of the more well known sports history times that everyone knows.

A (8:17)

You say that, you say that everyone knows, except I had no idea. Did you say baseball?

B (8:24)

You didn't know Michael Jordan played baseball?

A (8:27)

Honestly, this is the first time I've ever heard of this. And for all I know, this is absolute nonsense. And you're making me.

B (8:33)

Oh my goodness.

A (8:33)

This is like a.

B (8:34)

Well, this is gonna be fun then. This is gonna be, this is gonna be very fun. You do know who Michael Jordan is? And you know he is a basketball Player that is very famous. Famous. Considered to be one of the best of all time, right?

A (8:48)

100%, yeah. On board with that so far?

B (8:51)

Yeah.

A (8:51)

Okay.

B (8:51)

All right, here we go. Let's take you back to 1993. Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls are fresh off a third championship, which in basketball terms we call a three peat. Michael Jordan has fully cemented himself not only as a full blown champion, but at this point in the prime of his career, he is considered to be the best basketball player of all time. Not just in the NBA at that time, the best basketball player of all time.

A (9:26)

And how old is he at this point in his sort of peak?

B (9:28)

What we talking? Michael Jordan in 1993 would have probably been about 30 or 31 years old. So not retirement age. He's still in his prime for a basketball player. And now Michael Jordan also had some personal strife in his life. A lot of people may not know this, especially because, you know, once he came back, the myth of Michael Jordan was so big. But in the first part of Michael Jordan's career, Michael Jordan and his dad were inseparable. Like wherever Michael Jordan was, Michael Jordan's pops was, you know, pretty close by. He was always around. Everybody knew MJ's dad, Michael Jordan's dad, unfortunately passed away. And that left Michael a little distraught, obviously. Right. And we get to the summer of 1993 after the Bulls have already won and Michael Jordan calls a press conference and all the Bulls are there, the press is there. This is unusual. Like during the off season, players don't call press conferences. There aren't player conferences. The basketball is dormant. We are in baseball season now, I.

A (10:52)

Suppose, especially at that time as well. It wasn't like the 24 hour news cycle. So there was stuff like this going on all the time. Was there? It was.

B (11:01)

This was so rare. But people are like, what's going on? What's going on? Michael Jordan calls a press conference to announce that he is retiring from the game of basketball. Out of the blue, the best player in all of all time. Fresh off a championship. Nobody knows how anybody's gonna beat the Chicago Bulls. Like they are in the middle of a dynasty. The best player announces, I'm retiring from basketball. I no longer have the passion for it. I'm done with it. And I am going, because my dad loved it. I am going to play professional baseball. You see, Michael Jordan growing up, baseball was one of his, was probably his first love, and it was his father's number one love. When basketball became MJ's favorite sport, baseball was still Michael Jordan's father's number one sport. And so according to Mike, he wanted to challenge himself and he wanted to do this in honor of his father who always wanted him to kind of be a baseball player. The thing is, while there were multi sport athletes out there, a lot of them did not take time away from the sport and then try to come back professionally. Michael Jordan hadn't played baseball since high school, so almost a good 12 plus years.

A (12:25)

Wow.

B (12:26)

And not only that, he was fully focused on basketball. However, it's Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan could do whatever you want, right? Especially when the owner of the Chicago Bulls, Jerry Reinsdorf, is also the owner of the Chicago White Sox, a major league baseball team. So Jerry Reinsdorf was like, I gotta keep this dude close and I gotta keep him close to the family. I gotta keep him within the Chicago organization. I still want to make money off this man. Michael Jordan wants to play base. Sure, go play baseball. Insane.

A (13:03)

Smart move.

B (13:03)

And so Jerry Reinsdorf was like, you have a spot in the Chicago White Sox organization. And lo and behold, come February, Michael Jordan is playing for the Chicago White Sox organization in their minor league system called the Birmingham Barons, which is their double A system.

A (13:28)

So is he. Basically he's still got to go in kind of at the bottom then to.

B (13:34)

Work his way up kind of. But he doesn't even start at the total bottom. Like you have players coming fresh out of like college still playing, are going to be considered like, oh, this is going to be a major league player who start in single A. You have single A, double A, triple A and then you have the majors. Michael Jordan had not played baseball since he was 18 years old probably. And for him to come and go right to AA with players who were on their way to major League Baseball, it was crazy. Was insane.

A (14:10)

Yeah, they must have resented that a little bit.

B (14:14)

You would think, oh, they loved it. They loved it.

A (14:17)

Do you think deep down, do you.

B (14:18)

Reckon they loved it? Because I'm sure like maybe a player or two who Michael Jordan took the spot for didn't love it. Cause Michael Jordan went to go play center field. He was an outfielder. Cause he was fast, especially for baseball terms. He was very fast. He had a strong arm. Cause he was strong, so he could throw. But more media attention was focused on a minor league baseball team than the New York Yankees, like at that time. Like, you know, so like Michael Jordan, you know. Cause when you are a minor league player, you're like riding the buses. You're not, you're not living in luxury, you're a minor league player. But MJ is there. MJ's buying like TVs for the clubhouse. Like they're upgrading, like the tour bus they ride on. Cause Mike is like, I'm not riding on the coach bus. Like, let's get a real bus in here. So he's like upgrading everything. Like all these players are becoming, like, known to the public, so they're kind of like becoming stars as well. Because the biggest athlete at the time is on your team all of a sudden.

A (15:29)

Yeah. You want to fall into that orbit, don't you? Someone the size of him.

B (15:34)

Somebody the size of him. The problem is he sucked. He wasn't great at baseball. However, as a person who plays baseball, baseball is, I think, the hardest sport in American sports to play. Just to give you a little science. On average, a major league baseball pitcher pitches 94 miles an hour. Like their fastball. The mound is 60ft, 6 inches away from the plate. A 95 mile per hour fastball coming from that mound to the plate takes less than almost a second to get there. Your brain can't process information faster than 0.4 seconds, which means you have 0.6 seconds to not only decide do I swing at this ball, you have to decide where it is and then get your hands and eyes to that location, which is just a 17 by 17 box that the pitcher is trying to throw into and make contact with that ball and get it somewhere on the field that the other eight players can't get to. It is one of the hardest things to do in sports is hit a baseball. So there's no. It is no, like, it's understandable. He wasn't great.

A (16:56)

Oh, yeah. It looks. From the bits that I've seen on telly, it looks like borderline impossible. And I tell the person who I think is genuinely one of the bravest jobs in the world is that fella who stands behind the plate.

B (17:12)

Yeah, the catcher and the umpire.

A (17:14)

The umpire, I think. Yeah. With the big. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (17:18)

They both. They both have to have it because you have a weapon like hurling towards you, like at a very fast speed.

A (17:25)

It's terrifying. I never played cricket as a kid because that's. It's. I hate the idea of something that hard coming that fast at me.

B (17:34)

It sucks. I play baseball now and on average our players pitch like 50 to 60 miles an hour. And that hurts.

A (17:41)

That's enough, isn't it?

B (17:42)

90 miles per hour. Like I've gotten bruises from getting hit before. 90 miles an hour, man, please.

A (17:48)

Yeah, that's.

B (17:49)

Get outta Here, it's not worth it. But here's the thing. Michael Jordan was starting to improve. He hit a couple home runs, he was fast, so he could steal the ball, he could get to the ball in the outfield, he could catch, and he was starting to see the ball better. Because the purpose of minor league baseball is to get better at baseball. Because the jump from Kyle to the minors is huge. And the jump from the minors to the majors is also huge. Like, it is also the only sport where players and are like, yeah, you're good, we think you're a major league baseball player, but you're still not good enough to play major league baseball. Like every other sport in America, if you get drafted, you go right to the professional top tier league for the most part. Like, you are ready to play with the big boys. Not in baseball. You have to go play with the development players, basically.

A (18:46)

Right, okay.

B (18:47)

So to jump into that and play with professional baseball players because you're still a professional is so hard. Here's the thing. Michael Jordan's trajectory was starting to get to a point where if you gave him one more season, a lot of people think he could have made the majors. Which is remarkable because even though he's not a baseball player, he is still one of the top athletes of all time. And you put a top athlete in Andy, any athletic thing, they will likely start to thrive and survive in that thing. But in 1994, 95, Major League Baseball went on strike and like all the players stopped playing.

A (19:30)

I vaguely remember you telling me about this, actually, and I think I've managed to retain it because we spoke before about Sosa and was the other fella.

B (19:40)

Yes. When they. Mark McGuire In 98, 98, they had the home run chase, but like they brought popularity back to baseball because that strike really like decreased the popularity in baseball. So this is the strike and all the major league players were not playing, but the owners were like, we still want baseball. So like, hey, minor league players, you want to come up and play baseball now? And Michael Jordan was like, I'm not going to cross the picket line, I'm not playing. And so he basically was like, I'm done playing baseball. And also at this time now, a year and a half plus had passed and he was starting to get the itch for basketball again. So he called up a couple homies. He was like, hey, come play pickup basketball with me. He played pickup basketball. And now all of a sudden that fire is coming back that he missed. He's like, oh, I think I, I think I still got this. Oh, wait a minute. I think I still can do this. And after some time, he decided, he told me, like, the White Sox organization, I am not going to play baseball anymore. And he made the decision that he was going back to basketball. And he did it in the coolest way of all time. He sent a fax to the Chicago either Tribune or Sun Times, which is two words, I'm back. And that was it. He sent the fax that said, I'm back. End of facts. And they got wind of it. And everybody was like, wait a minute. Because it was toward the end of the basketball season at this point, too, I think there were only like 10 games left. And people were like, michael Jordan's coming back to basketball. Michael Jordan's coming back to basketball. And he came back instead of wearing number 23, he's wearing the number 45, which is the number he wore for baseball. And he comes back and he's still good. He's still good, but, you know, he's a little step slow. And they're in the playoffs. And Nick Anderson of the Orlando Magic says, look, man, I know Michael Jordan is who he is, but that ain't the old Michael Jordan over there. That Michael Jordan, a little bit slow. That ain't number 23 right there. And Michael Jordan heard that in the next game, dropped the number 45 and came back as number 23. And he was number 23 again for the rest of his career and then won three more championships after that retirement. But for brief time, Michael Jeffrey Jordan was a baseball player. And that is lore for the Michael Jordan, like brand, that a man in his prime left his sport, went to go play another sport, left that sport, came back to basketball and won three more championships after. After taking almost two years off. It's crazy.

A (22:40)

It's an unbelievable story. I feel like it's such a kind of inherently American story as well. It's so. It's sort of romantic, isn't it?

B (22:50)

Yeah.

A (22:51)

And the way that everyone treated Michael Jordan and, like, he's back and he's welcome back, and then he crushes it and it's amazing.

B (22:59)

Yeah.

A (22:59)

I love. Because if that happened in England, say, like a football player decided to sort of jack it all in and go and do another sport, he'd be ridiculed at the start for doing that in the first place. And then they'd be all over him while he's doing the new thing and ridiculing him for being bad at it. And there wouldn't be this big Hollywood Moment where he comes back and rips it up again. It would literally just be, you know, a month of newspaper articles saying, like, loser is a loser.

B (23:29)

Nah, I couldn't make it. I will say this. I will say this. Michael Jordan did get, like, you know, a lot of flack while he was playing baseball. People was like, he's making a mockery of the sport. Like, he's not good. Michael Jordan. Watch. He's still not good at baseball. Like, although I think people were being a little unfair because, like, he was hanging with those players. But people were expecting Michael Jordan.

A (23:56)

Yeah. I mean, the confidence to go and try that. That, that. I mean, that should be commended in itself. It's. Yeah.

B (24:03)

Toward the end of that baseball stint, he was playing better, and then his teammates respected him. They was like, yo, he was the first one, like, at the practice facility. He was the last one to leave. He put in the work. He wasn't just, you know, you know, halfing it. He was. He was putting in work. So he got the respect of his players, of his teammates and his coaches as well during that stint. But, you know, the artist came back to the canvas. He knows. And kept painting masterpieces after that.

A (24:32)

I had no idea about that, and I'm so glad that I do.

B (24:35)

That's so cool. I don't get to talk about that with many people who don't know that at all. So, like, that's really fun. Yeah, that's really fun to, like, talk to you about it and, like, introduce that lore to you and introduce that, like, that little bit of sports history to you.

A (24:50)

I love it. Yeah, I'm learning along.

B (24:53)

Yeah. Well, there you go. Now, you know, go tell your friends.

A (24:57)

I'm really getting a timeline down of baseball now, which I never, ever thought you do possible.

B (25:01)

You got a timeline of mid to late 90s baseball.

A (25:06)

What more do you need?

B (25:08)

Nothing. That's all. That's all you need?

A (25:11)

Well, this has been. This has been great, man. I think it's about time we turned in now, but I look forward to chatting again about mid-90s baseball next time.

B (25:21)

I love it. I'm gonna go dream about it. Hitting home runs in my dreams. So until next time, buddy. Good night, Matt.

A (25:28)

Good night.

B (25:47)

Sam.

A (26:33)

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