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- [00:00]
A
Hello. You're about to drift into an episode of the Nightly a podcast designed to help you unwind and relax. For the full phone free immersive light experience visit Hatch Co. Enjoy.
- [00:30]
B
Alright, I'm back and I'm kp. Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch where your late night thoughts go to rest. Matt, last night we touched on our shared love of WWE and I want to get more into that and I want to know how you got into it in the first place. Were you like an early adopter? Like as a kid, did you watch at all?
- [00:53]
A
That was, I would say the most intense obsession with it was probably when I was maybe 7 or 8.
- [01:00]
B
It's a perfect age for it.
- [01:02]
A
Yep, really good. And I mean the perfect time for wrestling as well because that was attitude era peak so late 90s, early 2000s. It was unbelievable. And now I, every time I go back to it, I don't really go back to what's going on now. I will just revisit that time.
- [01:21]
B
Did you have a wrestler that you were. You really enjoyed the most watching it was Stone Cold. Yeah, he's incredible.
- [01:28]
A
Stone Cold was the ultimate kind of badass. Basically his whole thing was beating up Vince McMahon, who is his boss. So he was the kind of everyman who got to get his own back on his boss. And he was like a beer swelling. What would you say?
- [01:46]
B
Like a. I mean he's just an all American guy. Yeah, very, very American. Shaved head.
- [01:53]
A
Shaved head. Would drive a monster truck from time to time.
- [01:56]
B
Yes. It's like every stereotype you can think of of like bald eagle type of guy.
- [02:01]
A
Yes. Anti authority. Just. Yeah, real great hell raising guy.
- [02:05]
B
And he had that shirt that is very, very, very iconic. That says stone cold 316.
- [02:12]
A
Yes.
- [02:13]
B
And that was like his own little verse that he, that he lived by. Right. Is it the Bible?
- [02:20]
A
Yeah, well, it was, it was. So if I remember rightly, it was King of the ring 1994. Five maybe.
- [02:32]
B
Okay.
- [02:33]
A
And there was another wrestler who had like a, I think like a religious gimmick.
- [02:38]
B
Oh yeah.
- [02:39]
A
He said some Bible verse and said that's John, John 3:16, 4:12 or so. Yeah. Or something. And he said, well, Stone Cold 316 says, I just kicked your ass.
- [02:49]
B
That is it.
- [02:50]
A
It's great.
- [02:51]
B
Yeah, he's incredible. The beer thing is so cool. It's one of the coolest things.
- [02:57]
A
It's the best. I saw a video on Instagram the other day of him in a. I think it was just in a shop and he got on the counter and somebody threw two cans of beer to him and he did the. Where he hits them together and drinks them both. And it was so cool.
- [03:12]
B
Oh, my God, he's incredible.
- [03:14]
A
He's been posting a lot recently about being a cat dad.
- [03:17]
B
Oh, my gosh. I mean, he's a real sweetie. Which I love about wrestling is, you know, their characters versus their outside the ring self can sometimes be intertwined, sometimes not as much. You know, you're supposed to, I think, sort of keep the illusion that every single thing is real. It's like, oh, yeah, I really did that when I was in the ring. So Stone Cold's character, you know, he's a bit of a. Everybody loves him, but he was a hard man.
- [03:46]
A
He was a hellraiser.
- [03:47]
B
He was a hellraiser. And then to have him be a cat dad is really, really quite cute.
- [03:52]
A
It's very sweet. Yeah. Was that. Was that your era then as well? Were you doing.
- [03:56]
B
No, no. But when I got into wrestling a little bit in maybe my grand early 20s, that is the era I sort of watched and started with because that was what everyone around me, like, knew as their era. Also. It's all these people that were watching when they were, you know, 10 years old.
- [04:12]
A
Okay.
- [04:12]
B
And so I watched some of that. I mean, it is a great. I was very much. I liked. Let me make sure I liked Edge. He was kind of my guy.
- [04:22]
A
Great wrestler.
- [04:23]
B
He's another one that's got a really great just wrestling face. He's just emotive. You're looking and you feel. Because what I love about wrestling is they'll hold that offended stare for a while. It's like, yes, it's so good. Another guy will do, you know, surprise run in the ring and give him a hit, and he didn't. And you have to hold the, like, shocked stare and intimidating glare for one to two minutes longer than you think.
- [04:53]
A
Much longer than is at all comfortable.
- [04:56]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I'd say wrestling is a lot of different things and it's rare you find a wrestler that can do all of them perfectly. But I would say it's, you know, promos. I'd say it's talking, having a good storytelling. Then there's the actual physical, like acrobatics and aerobics, the wrestling part. And then I'd say look. Maybe the look, honestly. Yeah, you really do. Because there's a lot that I'm thinking of in current day where it's like they really have the look, but then you put the microphone on them and then it's like crickets.
- [05:35]
A
Yeah, it does. I think that was. I've watched so many programs and listen to so many podcasts about this and I think it fell down because in the Attitude era there was way more freedom. People like the Rock could go out absolutely. And just do whatever they wanted. And now it's all way more scripted and it's a bit more uptight. But people like the Rock, you could just let their character out.
- [06:01]
B
And the Rock is a great example where it is like. I mean, they had so many that could do all of them. This is the thing as John Cena was this too. John Cena had the look. John Cena could talk incredibly and then was great at wrestling.
- [06:13]
A
Yes. I do think as well that there's an element of. At that time we were all way more able or willing to suspend disbelief so you could have. The bandwidth for characters was massive. So two more massive ones were obviously Kane and the Undertaker.
- [06:33]
B
Oh, my God.
- [06:34]
A
Who. Well, the Undertaker was dead, wasn't he? He was dead.
- [06:39]
B
So this is the thing where it's like. What I love about wrestling is. Yeah, there's a huge suspension of disbelief. And sometimes, and this isn't even the craziest one, I'd say the Undertaker is honestly quite a normal storyline. But yeah, he's dead and he is like a gravedigger type person. It's like he's kind of coming out from the grave or he lives in the cemetery.
- [07:04]
A
The Undertaker was probably about 6 foot 5. 6. 6, proper giant of a guy. All black, black long hair, tattoos, obviously everywhere. He had his wife's name tattooed on his neck for quite a while till they got divorced. Which is always the way, isn't it? Once you get. It's a curse, your wife's name tattooed on your neck. It's only going one way, isn't it?
- [07:27]
B
And he does wear a very cool hat. It's like a black, you know, cowboy esque, but not really. It's like a.
- [07:34]
A
It's a wider rim, isn't it? Like.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah, like a westerny hat, really.
- [07:39]
A
And he can do that thing where you put his eyes back in his
- [07:41]
B
head and he did that a lot. This was. Yeah, he looks. He's going with that undead vibe and he has got a little eyeliner on. It's a whole just real dark look. And he's got the longest leather jacket you've ever seen. So it's just a. Yes, a real intimidating undead. But I will say it's like it's not. They didn't go too heavy handed with the undead of it all. It truly is. You look at it and you go, okay, well, that is just a guy in a hat and a leather coat.
- [08:07]
A
I think they did back off the undead sort of thing ever so slightly. When he first came on the scene, I think they didn't know how popular he was gonna be. So it's like, oh, yeah, this guy's actually dead and he's mystical. And then he became massive. And I think they went, oh, that's. We don't wanna have to actually. In the bright lights of day. That's a bit unrealistic.
- [08:28]
B
Yeah, yeah, we can't keep that up. So then it was kinda like, all right, we don't need no updates here. He's alive, though.
- [08:34]
A
Yeah, but he's also dead. But he's not. But his manager is. I love the names as well. His manager was a man called Paul Bearer.
- [08:43]
B
Absolutely. And Paul Bearer is not. He's not paranormal looking. This man is in a business suit, right?
- [08:52]
A
Well, he looks like a. I don't know whether he's supposed to be a mortician, but he looks like he's got mortician makeup on.
- [08:58]
B
That is true. Okay, okay, okay, okay. He does have, like a white face and he looks a little from the Addams family, but he is still wearing a suit.
- [09:07]
A
Yes, A very, very sort of squat, chubby kind of character. And it looked great. Cause the Undertaker was like 6 foot 10.
- [09:17]
B
Yes.
- [09:17]
A
And Paul Bearer would be what, 5? 2? He looks great.
- [09:21]
B
Completely different. Completely different body type. Yep.
- [09:25]
A
And then Kane was obviously the Undertaker's estranged brother.
- [09:29]
B
Yes.
- [09:30]
A
Who. He was in a fire that the Undertaker set or something.
- [09:34]
B
Yep. I think you're right. I think you're right. Because he was wearing. He sometimes wears a mask.
- [09:40]
A
That was it.
- [09:41]
B
So I think there was some sort of fire. He has this scary. And Kane's humongous too. I mean, Kane's even taller by a little bit than the Undertaker. I think Kane's 6 foot 7 or something. They're both giants. And yet Kane is wearing a full black mask with long, permanently wet, wet hair.
- [10:01]
A
The permanently wet hair is fascinating.
- [10:03]
B
I love that. That's. That's a classic wrestling move.
- [10:07]
A
Have you seen all the other. So basically this actual cane was in. It was a over the shoulder number, I think, wasn't it like a red and black.
- [10:17]
B
Yes, yes.
- [10:18]
A
Spandex unitard.
- [10:19]
B
Yeah.
- [10:20]
A
Unitard, yeah. Recently I've seen online a load of knockoff canes at amateur wrestling events. They are so funny. There's gain. Who's in like A rainbow unitard.
- [10:37]
B
Okay.
- [10:38]
A
There is cocaine, who is in full white.
- [10:41]
B
Absolutely.
- [10:43]
A
There were some other ones as well. It's the most bizarre thing. But that's become like a cult thing in itself now.
- [10:48]
B
Yeah. Is Kane knockoffs, Knockoff canes.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah.
- [11:09]
B
If you're a wrestling fan, you have Monday Night Raw. So that's every Monday night. You're watching that for the real, like, up to dates and smackdown. Because these are the weekly updates, really. This is the weekly journey to the large events. So there might be each episode, three to four actual matches, right? This is.
- [11:30]
A
Yeah, I'd say so.
- [11:31]
B
Yeah. Three to four actual matches. And then there's a lot of things happening in the time that fighting is not happening. So this is cutting promos is like. Let's say that somebody just won a match against somebody else's rival, then they might cut a promo after the match and be like, see? Blank. I told you, I'll take down anyone to get to you. So that's part of it. What else do they have?
- [11:57]
A
I think probably the closest comparison is soap opera, isn't it? So you'll have that side of it with the matches and the promos, and then there'll be backstage. It'll be all set up like in a soap opera, where it'll be KP stood in the locker room.
- [12:14]
B
Exactly.
- [12:15]
A
I come in and say, I didn't like what you did last week on smackdown. And then there'll be a back and forth. Will cut promos on each other, and then eventually fight at WrestleMania.
- [12:26]
B
Yes. So it's locker room talk. It's hallway talk. It's like, oh, he's getting ready for his next match. And then all of a sudden, somebody will come and just completely clothesline him in the hallway. And it's like, whoa, how did that happen? So there's a lot of the in between moments are sometimes just as important, if not more than the actual matches.
- [12:45]
A
Yeah. Like a reason for fighting, I think. A couple, just to show you the madness of the era that I got into, it was. I remember who ran over Stone Cold backstage, just ran a car into him. And also one. Where was it? Mae Young, who must have been in her mid-80s at that point, gave birth to a mop. They were trying to figure out who the parents, who the father was.
- [13:11]
B
And sometimes people's kids got kidnapped. Eddie Guerrero's kid got kidnapped.
- [13:15]
A
There was a ladder match for the custody of Eddie Guerrero's child.
- [13:18]
B
Yes, yes, yes. So there's a lot. And the backstage part is what's really interesting. Too is you are seeing like in the hallway always stuff go down. So that's like, you know, it's a real reality show.
- [13:28]
A
Yeah. You can't look away.
- [13:29]
B
And then there's the WrestleManias. That's the big one. But then there's the pay per views. There's a lot of different matches.
- [13:35]
A
Is it smackdowns or on. Is it smackdowns on Thursday?
- [13:39]
B
Thursdays? Yeah, I think that's right. So it's a lot to watch.
- [13:43]
A
I never know because it was always. I remember as a kid growing up, I remember being in the kitchen at our house and we had a tiny little tube TV in the corner of the kitchen. I remember sat on a kitchen chair when I was like 9 or 10 watching Monday Night Raw. But it always aired on a Saturday night in England. So from like 10 to 1 in the morning. And it's. Yeah, I've such fond memories of that, but it's always been confusing to me what day they actually go out on. So as you can imagine as a kid, like that went out on Saturday nights, but they always referred to it as Monday Night Raw. And I was so. I was like, what? The time difference.
- [14:21]
B
It's crazy. You guys are six days behind us. That is really hard.
- [14:26]
A
I was so confused as a kid.
- [14:28]
B
Yeah. I went to. Now, have you gone to any of the WWE events in person?
- [14:33]
A
Never. I would love to. It's bucket list thing. Yeah.
- [14:36]
B
I went to a Raw when it made its way through Connecticut when I was living there.
- [14:40]
A
Wow.
- [14:40]
B
And I just thought it was a really, really fun time. I like. I mean, I'm gonna say something controversial. I might like going to sporting events more than concerts, and I don't even like sports that much. But I think the energy in the room of a sporting event, especially wwe, it's just fun. You're having a good time. You can talk, you can yell, you can get a really overpriced drink. And I think that that energy really appeals to me where it's like we're all just watching and hanging out and we all like the same thing. Where concerts. You got to be a little more buttoned up. It's. There's concert etiquette.
- [15:15]
A
That is true. Yeah. I do. I love the idea of going to wrestling.
- [15:19]
B
Yeah.
- [15:19]
A
I mean, I want to know everything. Did you take a sign?
- [15:22]
B
No, I didn't take a sign. We were so far back. I mean, the tick. I mean, it would have been.
- [15:26]
A
Oh, really?
- [15:27]
B
They would have needed binoculars to see my sign.
- [15:31]
A
How far back could you see the ring?
- [15:33]
B
Oh, yeah. Because they have the television up top, you know.
- [15:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. But I was the Titan Tron.
- [15:40]
B
Yeah. I don't mind. I don't mind at all there. This was the recent era too where there was kind of a dead zone era, I'll say, where I think people just weren't super watching. I would say from 2010 to 2020.
- [16:00]
A
Honestly, it basically, for those of you that don't know, it kind of went pg, didn't it? That was it. It was a PG era. They wanted to get more kids watching it.
- [16:09]
B
Yeah.
- [16:10]
A
Despite the fact little 10 year old Matt was loving it.
- [16:13]
B
Totally.
- [16:14]
A
But they wanted to get other kids involved and it was. It lost its edge, didn't it? I think, pardon a pun.
- [16:20]
B
But now I've checked back in and I think it is really fun and I think the changes that they've made in the last five years or so have been really beneficial to a larger group of people. Like the storylines are crazy again, which I think has been kind of fun. And especially the women's matches. They've put so much effort and so much money into a women's wrestling as like a whole sector. And now that it's very intertwined with the men's matches. And I think the female wrestlers are so fun and just heavy storyline and really they're going hard. They're so athletic and they're hurting each other. It's awesome.
- [17:08]
A
It is great.
- [17:09]
B
Yeah.
- [17:09]
A
I have to say I watched that one of the backstage documentaries that's on Netflix.
- [17:14]
B
Yeah.
- [17:16]
A
Cause I'd not checked in with it for such a long time and I was blown away watching the women's matches. So entertaining. Yeah. Do you know this completely very brief tangent? Two of my mates went just on a whim holiday to Mexico last year and they're round the pool, got chatting to this woman who was Rikishi's manager in the Attitude era.
- [17:39]
B
Wow. Rikishi's look, he's got platinum blonde hair. He's large. He's a really, really large man.
- [17:47]
A
Very wide man.
- [17:48]
B
Wide man. He's got like a shell necklace. He is Samoan if I'm not mist. Yes, he's Samoan. And he had a really, really cool finishing move.
- [17:59]
A
Cool.
- [18:02]
B
It was really cool. Let me try and do you remember what it was called?
- [18:06]
A
Tell us about it, kp. It was called the Stink Face. If you want to describe how the stinkface worked, kp.
- [18:13]
B
I feel I've backed myself into a corner where now I must.
- [18:16]
A
That is a terrible place to be
- [18:18]
B
backed into the corner or the stink Face. Stink Face, if I'm not mistaken, was once he's gotten someone down on the
- [18:25]
A
ground, it's in the corner.
- [18:27]
B
Yeah, in the corner. He would turn around and take his rear end and sort of rub it on that person's face. And that was called the stink phase. And the crowd would go wild.
- [18:39]
A
And he was so large that a lot of the time it would knock out the opponent.
- [18:45]
B
That is the thing about finishers is it doesn't have to make sense. Mick Foley had that one with the sock.
- [18:54]
A
The mandible claw.
- [18:55]
B
The mandible claw. And does it make sense that a sock puppet sort of incapacitates the other person? No, no, but it does. And you have to just accept that.
- [19:08]
A
And that's. Well, it's Mr. Socko as well. The sock puppet. Whole character in its own right.
- [19:15]
B
Yes, yes. So I got in to the whole thing by watching a match specifically called the Royal Rumble. The Royal Rumble is my favorite match, truly. Royal Rumble. Why I love it is this is 32 wrestlers enter the ring over the course of this one event. And you have to get them over the rope and their feet to hit the ground. That is how you eliminate another wrestler, Kofi Kingston, who I think is one of the best just athletes in the wwe. He really flies. He's flying all across the ring. And one of the Royal Rumbles, he got thrown over the ring, landed onto the announcer's rolling chair. So all the way over the ring, landed on the rolling chair, and then scooted himself over the course of a few minutes, scooted on that rolling chair, back into the ring, got over the ring again, and continued the match.
- [20:13]
A
It's so cool, isn't it?
- [20:14]
B
It's so cool.
- [20:16]
A
What's amazing as well is that's in the scheme of things, pretty recent. And you would think you do a big event like that every year, and it has been every year Royal Rumble has been a staple of wrestling.
- [20:28]
B
Yes.
- [20:28]
A
And yet they still come up with new angles and new ways to do it and new sort of. I just find that so impressive.
- [20:38]
B
It's so cool. And I got into this from a drinking game. This is how I got into WWE in general, is the Royal Rumble drinking game. So this is, let's say it's you and me and five of our friends watching a Royal Rumble. We each pull out of the hat numbers 1 through 32 or 30, however many wrestlers there are. I think 30. And then, you know, we might get five numbers each. Those are the wrestlers you are rooting for. So you drink when they come out. You drink when they eliminate someone and you double drink when they get eliminated to say goodbye.
- [21:12]
A
What a great game.
- [21:14]
B
Isn't that nice? All it takes for me to get engaged, as you know, is a competitive experience.
- [21:20]
A
How did it go for you last time? Did you. Did you win?
- [21:23]
B
It's been a while since I've played. I've definitely won some of the times I've played. I've played many of the years and I've definitely won a few of them. And you realize that there's. I think the number one slot is 27. The most amount of winners of Royal Rumble have been number 27.
- [21:43]
A
Right.
- [21:43]
B
So there's some. There's some gaming that you can do where it's like, okay, it's rare, but it has happened that the first guy out defeats every other person over the course of 90 minutes and then wins. That's rare. But it's. It's gone on.
- [21:56]
A
I'm genuinely excited for the next one. I really want to try that. I don't know when. When is Royal rummaging?
- [22:01]
B
January, I think.
- [22:03]
A
Yeah. It's early, isn't it?
- [22:04]
B
I think so, yeah. It's end of January usually.
- [22:06]
A
Because then the winner gets the wrestle at WrestleMania, which is like March, isn't it? I think.
- [22:11]
B
And I haven't done. And you could do the women's ones too. So there's double the amount of royal.
- [22:15]
A
Double the drinking drink too.
- [22:16]
B
Yep.
- [22:19]
A
Excellent news.
- [22:21]
B
If you said all time, it is stone cold. Is your. All time. That's the one that you liked the most? Yeah.
- [22:27]
A
All time. Gotta be. Yeah. I mean, with that. If. If you're listening, Steve.
- [22:33]
B
Mm.
- [22:34]
A
Just want to say a massive good night to Mr. Austin and. Yeah, I mean, at some point down the line, if we can make. Make that happen, I would. I'd love to come and hang out with the Cats and ideally go to WrestleMania. It's not too much trouble.
- [22:49]
B
Yeah, the cats would be great. WrestleMania would be really great. So if we could just get all of that lined up, that would be really nice. I'm gonna say goodnight to Rikishi. I think I have such joy watching you. There is something really incredible about what you did for that era and I love the finisher and I have no regrets in bringing it up. So good night to Rikishi and good night to you, Matt. May you dream of Stinkface.
- [23:25]
A
Lovely night, kp.
- [23:27]
B
Good night,
- [24:45]
A
Sa. To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch co. You can also follow us at HatchPodcasts.