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- [00:01]
A
Audio for sleep by hatch. Hey there. I'm Wills.
- [00:25]
B
And I'm Josh. Welcome to the nightly from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to rest. Well, before we really get started today, I have to comment. You were drinking a big, I want to say cup of water, but it's not. Because what I want to remark on is you're drinking what I want to call the bear style.
- [00:49]
A
It's the bear style. I'm bringing a container of water. This is like the chef's Tupperware. Whatever. I never know what size this is. It's the largest size that I have in my kitchen, but it's, like, quartish.
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B
It looks quart or liter adjacent.
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A
Yeah, but, yeah, I. I left my water bottle somewhere last weekend, and I've. I'm going to get a new one, but it's like, I feel like a glass of water I drink in, like, 10 seconds flat. So I really need, like, a huge tub of water. I need a trough.
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B
A tub was the word.
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A
I need a trough of water.
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B
Yeah, you need kind of a rushing river to just dip your face.
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A
I guess I need a pool. An Olympic sized pool of water is what I would say. But, yeah, it's not very, like. I mean, it's like, it's not very cute, but it gets the job done. This is what the chefs do. This is what I do.
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B
If it's good enough for chefs, it's good enough for you. I say that about everything.
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A
This is like, another thing that I've done with these. Like, quart is. I guess what we're calling them size Tupperwares is I make a lot of, like, if I'm making a, like, hydrating beverage, I'll put it in here because I'm like, I want interesting as much as possible, and I don't like getting my, like, water bottle having, like, flavors in it. So I'll make my, like, liquid IV in here or. I was on a kick of making, quote unquote, homemade Gatorade for a while, which is like coconut water and water and hibiscus tea.
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B
That sounds delicious.
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A
And a bunch of salt and lime.
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B
How was it?
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A
Oh, it was literally so good. I honestly need to start making it again. It's so good.
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B
I feel like you could call that a mocktail and charge $15 a glass for it at a restaurant in Brooklyn.
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A
And I'm sure people have. I'm sure they will.
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B
Yeah, no doubt. Hibiscus is, like, big time mocktail ingredient.
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A
It's absolutely huge. But I love, like, a salty, electrolyte drink. I just can't. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I'm going to be completely honest about it.
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B
I appreciate your candor.
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A
Thank you.
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B
And I would never ask you to lie about something so serious as this is completely serious.
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A
It's my job, basically. I take it deathly serious.
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B
Have you been bringing the tub to the gym?
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A
No, no. The tub can't go anywhere outside of the house. There's no top to it. It's simply like I don't put a top on this and carry it around. It's just like when I'm in the
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B
house, I do associate that with a staff of a restaurant kitchen.
- [03:26]
A
Yeah, it is a kitchen staff kind of move. But look, they do it for a reason. Like it's handy. I have like a, a million of these at my house. Cuz I like only use the little like the. I don't know what they're called. This style, this microplastic container. You have about 3,000 of them. They're like easy. You can stack them on top of each other. I honestly. Look, I could talk about the Tupperware situation for a while, but I won't. Okay. Do you have any like things that you've done? I feel like when I got this style of like Tupperware, I was like, oh, it just makes sense. Like you have a bunch of them. It's really like you don't have to worry about if you lose them, you get more. When you get takeout and they all match and as I said, like they all fit very neatly together.
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B
It is pretty impressive.
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A
Do you ever get or do you have anything in your house where you're like, oh, I hit that out of the park. Like my system works.
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B
Oh, this is very good. You know, I would always kind of laugh at especially my grandparents because my parents, it was a little less visible. But the plastic bag full of other plastic bags that you get from grocery shopping or whatever and then you're like, oh, I need this for. I'm just bringing a bunch of, you know, a bunch of little things somewhere. And I don't, I don't want to bring a tote because I'll lose it or leave it. It's got to be. Or I'm going to put it on the ground at the park or something and then throw it out. And it is like plastic bag full of other plastic bags remains unbeaten.
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A
You can't beat it. I have one hanging up in my, in my closet. I have like on a hook.
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B
It's so helpful.
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A
As we know as I keep telling people I'm doing an apartment renovation, but one of the things that I've. I did to my apartment before I moved everything around in my living room is that I created a chord situation that made sense for the way that, like, the cords were displayed and. And hidden or not hidden.
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B
Okay.
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A
Which basically means I have, like, cords that I've put inside of plastic little houses that run along the perimeter of my living room. And I. And you can buy these and you can tape them to the floor or whatever, and it's like, hides your cords. I call it cord management because that's basically what it is. And then I have, like a. I have a. A place the cords. The outlet hides as well. I have all these things. However, since moving my.
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B
Wow.
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A
Some stuff around in my living room, one of, like, the main area that's like, a mess of cords because it's where they installed the WI fi router is now much more visible. And I'm like, oh, my God. I have to tackle that somewhat soon. And it's. Yeah, it's weighing heavy on my spirit.
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B
Are you a big cord management, cord hygiene person? Like, if it's all behind the TV or.
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A
No, not really. Well, this is what I'm saying. Like, I had my couch in a position where it was hiding all these cords, and I was kind of like, it's not business. Like, what's going on?
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B
I misunderstood.
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A
Don't. Hey, don't ever apologize.
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B
Thank you. I will never apologize.
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A
I love saying that. It's like, wait, that's not true. But no, I'm not like, that anal about it, but I. But now I'm like, the ones that were hidden are no longer hidden. And that's where there's this, like, crazy. It's where they. The guy installed my WI fi. I think it was, like, basically the only place he could put it. So it's just like, chords that I don't even really know where they're chords that I have. I'm not intimately familiar with. I did not put them there. I have no idea where they're going. And they're like. So it's a shocking amount of chord is what I'll say. I feel like we could have used a shorter chord for some of these, but I'm going to leave it to the professionals.
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B
The situation behind our tv. I don't aesthetically mind it, but it is the kind of thing where when we have to check and make sure everything's plugged in right. It is kind of a rat king
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A
of really, you're like.
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B
And so it's functionally difficult to navigate.
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A
Yes.
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B
And you're just kind of like feeling the thickness of one.
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A
Yes.
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B
And then like remembering that feeling to see if it's the same chord somewhere else.
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To hope that it matches with the one that's plugged in the tv. You're like, do you know what I mean?
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B
Where you're like, okay, this one has like a little vein on the back. And so I'm gonna. Yeah, of course. Okay, I gotta find the vein on the other end.
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A
Yes. This is like a. It's like a game.
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B
It is like a game.
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A
I have another thing I want to say about my apartment.
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B
Please.
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A
Basically, because I've been. As I said, I'm doing this renovation. Really makes me laugh to call it that. But I had a friend over on a couple nights ago who's an architect, and the way that he was like reading my. I was like. Cuz I am in my apartment and I'm looking at everything and I'm like this. I'm like so aware of, like everything that looks strange and needs to change because it just. It doesn't look bad to most people, but because I'm like, very particular and I know the way I want it to look, it looks very odd to me right now. But all my friends will be like, no, it's like that. It's like, fine, like, whatever. And then I had my first architect and he was like. He would be like pointing to stuff and be like, so that looks weird there because da, da, da, da. And I was like, I know, I know, I know. And it felt both good and bad to have someone affirm it. Do you know what I mean?
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B
Yeah, yeah. To be like, oh, the thing. You think that's real, but it does also. You think you're getting away with something. And then you realize you're like not. You, like, go through a whole party where you're like, oh, probably no one notices that this shirt is missing a button. And then someone like, right as you're leaving is like, hey, did you want to just. Your buttons come undone. You're like, no, it's gone.
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A
They're like, I didn't want to say anything, but I've been noticing it all night, like.
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B
And I respect you. Last year, like, no.
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A
Yeah, that was very funny. It made me laugh. He was like, I'm sorry. Like he. He was like, I'm sorry for saying this or whatever. And I was like, it's okay. And in fact, it's good because everything you're Pointing out is stuff that I noticed, too. So I'm like, oh, good.
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B
There wasn't like, some other, like.
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A
And also, by the way, not at all. I was like. I was like, you are. Accurately, you are. I was like, you don't have to apologize because you're saying it because it's true. And in that way, it feels good to have someone a little bit on my side.
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B
Yeah, you're. You're seen. You're valid.
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A
Completely valid.
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B
Totally. Last week we were talking about, like, fake trends. Like, things that people kind of announce, like, oh, it's this aesthetic, or I keep seeing this. And we were talking about fake ones.
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A
Yes.
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B
Like, oh, that's not real. That's Three people said that. Or this one person did this, and someone came up with a name for it, and the name took off more than the third. And I've been, like, trying to think about other fake trends.
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A
Yeah. Did we talk about Coastal Grandpa last week? Is that where we started?
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B
We did. I think that's the one that sparked discussion was like, that's. No, stop that.
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A
And can I say furthermore. Yes. The coastal and furthermore. Furthermore, Additionally, vis a vis, et cetera. Here's you. For the reason that notwithstanding, I don't think. Nonetheless, nevertheless. However, the Coastal Grandpa thing was so funny, I think, because people were talking about the aesthetic trend of Coastal Grandpa, which, when I look at Look it up, is described as nostalgic, cozy, and slightly eccentric fashion and interior design aesthetic. And I think what a lot of people were taking issue with also with that was that it was like someone was being like, the new thing is Coastal Grandpa. And then everything that they were talking about was people are basically like. What you are describing is someone who has, over a life that they've lived, has accumulated eccentric, interesting things, which is so, like, incongruous with, like, the idea of it being, like, trendy. Because it's like, what, do you want someone to go buy 100 new, like, little things that somehow seem like they've, like, gathered this over 20 years? It doesn't make sense.
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B
Like, oh, what's the hip new thing? It's like, well, this tapestry that your great grandmother bought. Yeah.
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A
The hip new thing is you need to go to an antique mall and
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B
you need to live a life rich with meaning, experience, completely. But that is such a big one.
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A
And Coastal Grandpa is just such a funny term.
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B
It's. I do like that phrase. Like, I wish I had more excuses in real life to say Coastal Grandpa.
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A
Okay, wait. I'm excited to hear your trend that you've been thinking of.
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B
Okay, this is kind of a made up term that people started arguing with and talking about. Like, it was not only a real phenomenon, which I think it kind of describes a phenomenon that is kind of real, but the word was just fully pulled out of thin air. And the only people using it were the people that were like, I'm not this thing. You're like, well, that's because this thing doesn't exist. And you actually, by using it, you are this thing. And this is. Do you remember this? I, I, I have to look up in our almanac when this took hold, but I heard, I saw someone use the word cheugy the other day and was like, oh, that was never real. We don't have to say that.
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A
Wait, let's talk about cheugy. Let's talk about cheugy, because I think that there are two camps of people. So for people who don't know, cheugy is basically like, what? Like basic? Kind of like it was, it's very, like, tied to, I feel like millennial. Is that right?
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B
My understanding of it was that it was kind of like a corny millennial aesthetic. Like, even maybe a notch less desirable than basic in terms of like, oh, it's not just, this is popular taste and it's not super. Excuse me, compelling or interesting, but it's like truly stereotypically corny millennial. And this is from, I was thinking this was like four or five years ago. Cheugy was 2013.
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A
Yes. Yes. So according to the New York Times, cheugy was coined in 2013 by a high school student named Gabby Raisin Rassen. Ra who knows to describe people who are slightly off trend or try too hard to be fashionable. Okay, this is interesting because I'm caught between your opinion and an opinion that I heard recently, which is someone that was like, basically said, like, kind of what you're saying, which is like, people forgot about cheugy. But in many ways, it is kind of. It does accurately describe some stuff.
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B
I think you're right. Like, I think the, the thing. It is. So this is kind of, it's similar to Coastal grandpa in that it's like a fake trend word.
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A
Yes.
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B
For like, a phenomenon that is kind of real, but it's not like a trend.
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A
No, it's not a. No, it's just, it's just a descriptor.
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B
Yeah. When people were talking about this for real, people were like, is this cheugy? Is that cheugy? And you're like, well, that's hard to Define. Because that word was just made up like a week ago. You know what I mean? But it is. I think there is something to the idea of, like, the hello, fellow kids of it all. Like the kind of Steve boo, semi, age 48 or whatever, holding a skateboard with a backwards cap and a T shirt that says, like, music band.
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A
Yes. The question of, like, is this cheugy or whatever. It's so much of that, to me is like, context dependent. Because it's like, yes, to be, I guess, to be, like, off trend to me. I'm kind of like, what does that really mean? Because, like, someone could wear skinny jeans, which people are like, oh, it's like, lame or whatever. And look cool. Like you can. People can wear whatever and look cool.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But I guess the part that is chuggy, if we're operating off of this definition from the New York Times, the cheeky paradise is like the trying, trying too hard. Because I think that's the part where it's like, if you're trying too hard for something, then it's like, it looks a bit sweaty and it's a bit obvious.
- [15:15]
B
But that I think that's right. And I think, like, arguing like our skinny jeans Cheugy, for example, is like, kind of beside the point where it's like. It's not the being a little out of date as much as it is the, like, running full tilt in a corny way at the thing that you think is the trend it, like, reminds me of. And this is like, so far off topic, but do you know about Kiki and Bouba?
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A
I love Kiki and Bouba. Okay.
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B
The best possible answer.
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A
Not only do I know I love them.
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B
They're like sisters to me, thank goodness. Kiki and Bouba are my closest friends in confidant.
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A
Kiki and Booba raised me. Yeah.
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B
Kiki and Buba taught me it was okay to be weird.
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A
Kiki and Buba, that's my chosen family, by the way. So be careful. Whatever you're about to say, be careful.
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B
But Kiki and Bouba, if listeners don't know, it's like a linguistic concept that people kind of intuitively know by hearing words and looking at shapes and figures. Which word maps or people group things instinctively in similar ways. Right. So Kiki is like, people will usually group things that are spikier and angular. And Bouba is stuff that's more round. But the point of it isn't what each one is. It's that people kind of generally know to group them similarly, even if they've Never heard these made up terms before.
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A
I mean, yeah, it's like all these things are so actually nebulous. And I think that's where it gets difficult. Is the. The like pinning it down or. Or just like that. It matters so much. Do you have anything that you're like, this is cheugy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Have you have any moments recently where you felt chewy?
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B
I feel all the time. I definitely feel I'm always, like, toeing the line. Because this is the problem with, like, having trying too hard as like a pejorative is like, you know, what's worse than that is the people who aren't trying at all.
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A
I agree. It's better to try, and I think
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B
it's better to try.
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A
And I don't think the trying too hard is bad inherently. It can be very, like, nice when you're like, oh, someone was so thoughtful about xyz, or you, like, tried to, like, put an outfit on or look nice or whatever. It's like, sweet. We're all just, like, being sweet.
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B
I guess the only time it feels bad to me is when I feel like I kind of get got by, like a trend that I'm trying to understand. Whether this is like a band or like a fashion thing, something that I'm like, I don't think this is for me. And then I try it and it like, definitively is not.
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A
But once again, you have to try. But I know sometimes I think that's right when you take the risk and then you're like, wait. And I feel awkward, by the way.
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B
Yeah, this did not pay off.
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A
It's not good.
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B
Oh, you know what? I. I was very self conscious. We. I meant to talk about this a while ago, but I was able to. I was very graciously loaned a, like, beautiful formal jacket for a big charity event that I was hosting.
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A
Nice.
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B
And I was very self conscious about pulling it off. And I think my self consciousness is diminished, the extent to which I was pulling it off.
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A
Yeah, I think that could happen too.
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B
It was like this really beautiful. This designer, Jack Sivan, lent it to me. It was really, really nice of him. And it was like kind of a patchwork, kind of eggshell, pink, blue. Like pink and blue pastel. Not like plaid, but like big squares
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A
of them all, like quilted kind of.
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B
Yeah, quilted is a great. That's, I think, exactly right. And it was, like, pretty bold.
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A
Yeah.
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B
As a. As a jacket. And I was, like, a little insecure about it, but I think the insecurity about it was what made it A little try hard. Whereas I think I should have just, like, taken a deep breath and been
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A
like, this is what it is.
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B
I'm crushing this. Yeah.
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A
But sometimes it is hard because you will be like, this is cool. And I don't know if this is how you felt, but sometimes it is. Like, I think both are true, which is that the insecure, you kind of have to be like, fake it till you make it. But at the same time, sometimes that feeling is there because you're like, it's just not me necessarily.
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B
Right.
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A
However you're describing that, I'm like, it does kind of sound like you, because I feel like you like a. Like, fun.
- [19:58]
B
It does sound a lot like me. It is like a very me. And my wife Maris was very encouraging. I was like, I kind of threw together the rest of the outfit last minute because I had these pants, they didn't fit quite right, but I put on. I was like, looking for shoes to wear. And I have these really beautiful. I don't wear them that often because they're a little clunky, but they're these beautiful high top floral pattern Adidas rivalries. And they're designed by this designer, Eric Emanuel. And I like, not for me. They were like, mass market. I bought them from Adidas.com or whatever. But I love.
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A
And those are called the Joshes.
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B
Yeah, yeah, they're the air gondolins. And. And my wife was like, oh, those shoes really tied the whole thing together. And I was like, you think so? And then over the course of the night, it did become clear that the shoes were tying the whole thing together.
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A
I bet you looked phenomenal, by the way.
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B
Thank you. I felt really great about it. It was this big charity event for the Authors Guild Foundation. It's like a really cool group. And I got to host this event. And I was like, looking back at the pre shows, I was like, you know what? This did look.
- [21:08]
A
Oh, that's so fun. You're like, look, it paid off. Sometimes the photos don't lie.
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B
We did it.
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A
You know what?
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B
What's that?
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A
I need to turn in. And it might be the perfect time because everyone can go to sleep with the image of Josh in his beautiful, beautiful jacket in their mind. And I mean that wholeheartedly.
- [21:28]
B
Thank you, Wills. That is a really nice thought for me.
- [21:31]
A
So on that note, I think I'm gonna say, goodnight, Josh. And I'm gonna say goodnight. I'm gonna say goodnight to anyone who's just trying something fun aesthetically. Just try it. See how it feels. I think you'll be rewarded handsomely in this life and the next.
- [21:48]
B
I think that's so beautiful. This life and the next. And I'm going to say goodnight to you, of course, to all the listeners, and to Gabby Resin, the Beverly Hills High School student who is deemed responsible for coining the term cheeky.
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A
Yes. Good night, Gabby.
- [26:18]
B
Sa.
- [26:44]
A
Sam.
- [27:18]
B
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