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- [00:01]
A
Audio for sleep by hatch. Hi everyone, I'm Matt Young. Welcome to the nightly from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to
- [00:33]
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now.
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I was previously a guest on the nightly and now I'm taking over for the entire week. You may know me as Usador the wizard on hello from the Magic Tavern, an improvised comedy podcast where everything we say becomes canon and has for the last 11 years. But tonight it's going to be a little drowsier, a little sleepier. If you want to come on the show to talk about anything that's on your mind, email us or send a voice memo to thenightlyach code. But I just wanted to take a second and share something that happened to me yesterday. And that was I moved into my current apartment about a year ago and we had one room where we had just sort of shoved a bunch of boxes. I had the opportunity to take some of the boxes out yesterday and what was awesome was there were a lot of books in those boxes. I had about six boxes of books that we hadn't unpacked yet. And I was unpacking them and putting them up on shelves, which is a very satisfying thing to do. But I was also going, you know what? I don't need this book anymore. I was deciding things that I was going to give away, donate, and that was also very satisfying, sort of a unburdening of myself of these books. And I just also found things I had never read. And it was like such a journey to like, kind of shop for books from yourself. Anyway, I hope you find some books that you forgot you had or that you no longer need or that just look nice up in your shelf. Well, anyway, that's enough about that. But today we have a caller. Their name is Aaron. Aaron, where are you from and what's on your mind tonight?
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Hey, I am from Massachusetts, and I thought we could talk about lucid dreaming tonight.
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A
I am so excited about that. I have to start off by asking you, how much do you know about lucid dreaming?
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B
I know a decent amount, you know, like, I find it really interesting. I've wanted to be able to train myself to do it, but for me, it's a little scary, you know, Like I've had sleep paralysis before in my life and that's very scary to me. So I want to try to get other people to do it first and then let me know how it is and then maybe I might try it.
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A
So lucid dreaming would be an opportunity for you to kind of take it back and own your own your nights and sleep Soundly through the night or sleep in control of your night. That's awesome. I. I don't. I personally don't know a lot about lucid dreaming, and I was trying to think if I've had what I would refer to as a lucid dream. Have you ever had a lucid dream?
- [03:33]
B
I had one once when I was a child. You know, obviously it wasn't intentional, but I remember being in my grandmother's house and, you know, they say when you pinch yourself and you don't feel anything, that's when you know you're in a dream. And I pinched myself and I was. I was in the dream. You know, I remember nothing else about it except. Oh, man. All right, I guess.
- [03:54]
A
So this is. This is clearly a dream right now. Yeah, I think I've always. I don't think I've ever intentionally tried to lucid dream. I don't know the steps to do that. I did a little bit of research and what I. But what I have experienced is that concept of, like in lucid dreaming, you know, you're dreaming, right? And you're directing it, you're controlling it. I find that sometimes right before I wake up fully, I sort of go into a lucid dream state and I'm like, oh, this is a dream and I have to be up in 30 minutes or 40 somehow. I kind of have a sense of the time and I'm like, oh, I hope I can sleep longer. The thing I try to do in lucid dreams is stay in the dream longer. But, yeah, it's really hard to stay there though, right?
- [04:54]
B
Yeah. I mean, the question is, so you can actually train yourself to do it, so you can go through a bunch of steps and do it intentionally. But I guess my question to you is, if you had the ability to just do it on purpose, where would you go? Like, what would you do in this dream?
- [05:14]
A
Oh, so if. Okay, now here's. Here's the real premise. Aaron. You just cracked the nut. The real premise is, were we given the powers to do anything we wanted in our dream world? What are we going to do? And that is very intoxicating to think about. I'm assuming you've got something fully loaded since you came into this with this idea. I would have to say if I did the training, and I know there's a way to the little bit of research I did, you can kind of like do a short dream wake up cycle, kind of get yourself in and out of dreaming, and that kind of helps you take control of it. It seems If I were really going to do all that training, I think what I would want to do is to be able to. Not really a power fantasy as much as, like, being able to do things I never would be able to do. Like, flying's a really obvious one, but, you know, going back and visiting people from my past, seeing how they're doing, even if it's not exactly the truth, it's not like I'm not plugging into their dreams. This isn't a dreamscape situation. Yeah. I want to find out about the other people in the dream. If I'm seeing my grandparents again or I'm seeing my family, really kind of digging in and seeing what state they're in in this dream and trying to appreciate how my mind is representing them. Yeah. What about you? Did you have something in mind for your. If you could. Lucid dream?
- [06:59]
B
Yeah, you know, I. I've always loved the idea of going into the past. You know, the only thing, like, if somebody came up to me and was like, okay, well, I built a time machine, where would you want to go? The only thing stopping me from going into, like, the 1700s would be the smell. You know, I'm sure it smells very terrible.
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Sure.
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And so I wouldn't go, but if I could dream and create kind of like, it smells like an ocean breeze, I would one go into, like, the 1700s and then see how much chaos I could do. Like, I would go, and I would, like, steal a loaf of bread and just see what happens.
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A
So you want to cause chaos in the 1700s? The American Revolution was in the 1700s. That's all I'm saying. There was already some amount of chaos. Democracy was born, you know, 250 years ago. But that's okay. If you want to steal a loaf of bread and see. And see the butterfly effect from that, I totally get it. That makes a lot of sense to me.
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Yeah. I mean, I would go to England or something.
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Oh, you.
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Yeah. I want to see what happens. I want to see them put me in the stock.
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Oh, okay.
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And then see what they throw at me. Like, are they throwing tomatoes? Are they throwing old pies? Like, what. What's going to happen?
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A
But since you're lucid dreaming, you know that none of those pies or tomatoes are going to smell bad, Right?
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Exactly. Will smell like at the ocean.
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A
Yeah, that's right. You've turned off your nose. You turned off all your olfactory senses in this lucid dream because you have the power to do so. That's pretty amazing. It also made Me think about other. Like I said, I was trying to think if I'd had kind of quasi lucid dreams. And I feel like I can think of one sort of recurring thing that happens with me is in that state where I'm just waking up. A lot of times when I'm in that state. I feel like the dream I'm having is about being roughly high school, college age again. And my parents trying to move. I feel like that's a thing that's happened a lot recently where I'm like, my parents are moving. I have to move to this new place. My parents are moving. And then I wake up and I realize, well, that was decades ago and obviously not a problem I actually have to contend with. Or I realize it in the dream. Like, as I'm waking up, I'm like, oh, I can just kind of enjoy being here with my parents as we decide we're moving to, I don't know, Minnesota or something. You know, I don't know. It's a very strange recurring thing. But it's usually when I become aware, I think. Because I realize I'm not that age. And I realize I'm not living with my parents. Somehow in the dream that I kind of take control of it. And I'm like, oh, this is a thing that I'm dreaming right now. Because obviously this can't happen anymore.
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B
Is it something that actually happened? Like, a lot of people I know kind of go back and experience things that they experienced in the past. Is it something that actually happened? Or is your subconscious kind of making that up?
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No, it's kind of making it up, I think. And I don't know if it's like a longing for the past or something. Or if it's just pieces of thinking about them during the day comes together in that way. But no, like, when I was young, we moved to different houses, but we were always in the same city. Never particularly far. And it never really affected me in terms of where I was living or my friends or school or anything. It wasn't too bad. And then the other one that I have, it wasn't really a lucid dream. But it is a funny dream. And it felt very real at the time. So not quite lucid. It doesn't probably rise to the bar of lucid. But I remember dreaming this. In my late 20s, probably early 30s. I had a dream that I found out Harrison Ford was my real dad.
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B
Oh, man, that's amazing.
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Oh, yeah, of course. Right. I was thrilled. I was like, oh, my God, Harrison Ford's my dad. I'm going to go meet Harrison Ford. And he lived here in Chicago, so I had to have already moved here. And I remember going. And it felt very real because I remember the steps of, like, driving to the house and, like, getting out of the car and walking up the steps to this house in what is called Roscoe Village here. And I knocked on the door and he answered the door. And I was like, I'm so excited. I'm such a huge fan, but I just want to let you know I'm your son. I just found out you're my real dad. And he pulled out his wallet and tried to give me money to tell
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B
me best case scenario. Yeah.
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I was like, oh, no. I just wanted to be your friend. I don't need your money. I just want to meet you and talk to Indiana Jones. And that sounds fun to me, obviously. Then I woke up and I was like, oh, how strange. The thing that was strange about it was like, how I think once you become a lucid dreamer, this is probably true. It's like you're more aware of it. And I felt very aware of that dream. I felt very like. Like I said, I can really, even now I can imagine and look back and see the exact house I was pulling up to, the car I was getting out of, like, the grass and the lawn, all the detail of it. Have you ever had just like a really vibrant, realistic dream like that?
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I think the most important question, and this shows you what my priorities are, like, how much did he offer you?
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It was like 50 bucks. It wasn't like, a ton of money? No.
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Okay, well, never mind. What grade are you? Harrison Ford? If you're not going to give me a ton of money.
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No, we won't hold that against the real Harrison Ford. I'm sure he would have given me 100.
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No, for sure.
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A
What about you, though? Have you ever had, like, a. Just a really vivid dream that almost felt real?
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B
Oh, yeah. I have a lot of vivid dreams, but none of them are really interesting enough to talk about. You know, they all involve, like, my childhood and, you know, things that people wouldn't really be interested in. But I do have a question for you, though, please. Would you ever be interested in training yourself to do it intentionally?
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A
Well, honestly, Aaron, I've never thought about it until now. And once I started kind of reading a little bit about it before I was going to meet with you today, it just didn't occur to me. It wasn't a thing that was really on my radar. And now I'M kind of curious because I sporadically remember my dreams. And it sounds like part of this whole process is going through this training process and doing the kind of training or, sorry, the kind of cycle of sleeping might actually help me sleep better. You know, I think there's an element of like, of hoping that, you know, I listen to things like this show to help me sleep sometimes. And the hope is, like, if you can kind of focus, it helps relieve sort of some of the stress that might be associated at some times with sleep. But I think I would. I think I would be willing to learn. I would love to have like a. Rather than just reading a book or going onto the Internet, I'd love to have like a lucid dream guru of some kind. I imagine those are out there somewhere. I could probably find a psychologist or something who specializes in this. Now, will I spend the time and money to do that? I don't know. What about you? Are you. You're going to dive in and then we'll have another call where you tell me about your lucid dreams?
- [14:55]
B
Actually, I would be totally up for that. But, I mean, it doesn't seem too difficult. It seems a little like you have to put a lot of effort into it. From what I've looked into, you have to do a couple of steps that they seem pretty easy. It just might take a long time for them to work. Like, the first thing, you just need to keep a dream journal.
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Yes.
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And, you know, every time you wake up and you have like a whisper of a dream, just write it down as soon as possible. So that way you start to remember kind of what things you're dreaming about. But then the next thing, which I think is arguably a little bit more important, is like, you have to do what they call a reality check all the time. When you're awake, make sure you're pinching yourself. You know how they say, like, if you pinch yourself in a dream, you're not. You won't feel it if you do that all the time, or like, if you look at the clock and time is moving exactly the way you would expect it, you know, you're awake. But then if you're in a dream and you look at the clock and time is moving forward and backwards and, you know, all these wild things are, like, if you pinch yourself and you're not feeling it, that's when you are going, okay, well, now I know.
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So basically, you need the control, right. For this scientific experiment of learning how to lucid dream. And reality is the control.
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Exactly. Yes.
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Yeah. Okay, great. I love that.
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Easy enough. I mean, why not?
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Yeah, no, there's a lot of things I love about that. First of all, it'd be great, you know, just to make sure this is reality, you know, like, let's double check that. Secondly, if we went back to the dream journal part for a second that I do lose, I know I wake up sometimes and I'm like, I gotta remember this thing and I don't write it down. And I think like, oh, that was really interesting. It might not have been. It might have only seemed interesting in the dream, but I do think that if I wrote enough of those things down, there would be something interesting and probably a pretty cool screenplay, right?
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Exactly. Who knows how famous we would all be if we wrote all of our dreams down and they became movies.
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If we wrote our dreams down and wrote a screenplay. Yeah, it's the easiest thing in the world. Why aren't we all doing it? Everyone just please write down your dreams. Write a screenplay. Get immensely famous, enriched. Thank you.
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B
No, for sure. Yeah. Like if I submitted my dream, that was me just going to college for the first time. That sounds like a great movie. That's literally the entire dream. Yeah.
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A
Well, that sounds fascinating. The concept of the way you control your dreams is focusing on reality. So you have to be able to delineate it. Right. The problem with us non lucid dreamers, I guess, is that we're too complacent about reality. So we have to check in and then figure out where we belong. Well, Aaron, this has been incredible. I really appreciate you being here and talking with me. Talking with me today about lucid dreaming, that was just me checking reality when I. When I misspoke there. So don't worry about it. Thank you for being here.
- [18:11]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was fun.
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If you want to come on the show to talk about anything that's on your mind, email us or send a voice memo to thenightlyach co. And I'd like to take a moment to say good night to my mom. I miss my mom. I love my mom. I don't get to see her often enough, but when I do, I like to give her a hug and say goodnight in person. So I'm sending a goodnight to my mom out over the podcast waves tonight. Sleep tight, everyone.
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Sa.
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To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at hatchpodcasts.