Naturemaxxing & Opposable Thumbs

Summary

The Nightly — “Naturemaxxing & Opposable Thumbs”

Date: March 29, 2026
Host: Hatch Podcasts
Guests: K.P., Sophia, Matt

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Episode Overview

In this cozy Sunday “pub chat” edition of The Nightly, Matt, K.P., and Sophia transform their virtual pillow fort into an intimate pub setting, where they unwind with gentle humor and lighthearted conversation. The episode explores the current obsession with naming simple pleasures (“nature bathing,” “naturemaxxing”), the collective delight of springtime animals, particularly Britain’s formerly loneliest sheep Fiona, and the conversation meanders into the curious world of animal domestication and opposable thumbs. The tone is playful, meandering, and occasionally delightfully silly, perfect for helping listeners relax and stave off the “Sunday scaries.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sunday Vibes & The Myth of “Sunday Scaries”

• Hosts’ Rituals: Matt shares how he resists “Sunday scaries,” preferring instead to treat Sunday as his favorite, most relaxed day.
• Social Permission:
  • B (K.P.): “I like that people seem to let you get away with doing your own thing on Sundays.” (01:40)
• Reframing Sunday:
  • The group discusses coining “Sunday fun day” as the better opposite to the “Sunday scaries.” (01:36)

2. Nature Bathing, Naturemaxxing, and Modern Vernacular

• Naming Trends:
  • The hosts joke about the tendency to give modern names to everyday activities, like “nature bathing” for just being outside or “bed rotting” for lounging. (02:39–03:10)
• Maxing & Minning:
  • The group riffs on the appeal of adding “maxing” or “minning” to any activity for fun.
  • A (Matt): “Adding Max into everything is my new favorite thing.” (03:10)
• Veil Minning:
  • K.P. introduces “veil minning,” her own invented term to try to experience more paranormal events, leading to playful banter about Ouija boards and “entity maxing.” (03:35–04:32)
  • C (Sophia): “You’re going about it in a very scary way, I think.” (04:39)

3. Animal Tales: Britain’s Loneliest Sheep and Spring Babies

The Story of Fiona the Sheep

• Breaking News: Matt shares that Fiona, Britain’s loneliest sheep, who was rescued after years stranded alone in the Scottish Highlands, has now given birth. (05:02)
• Playful Confusion and Puns: The hosts joke about not knowing who Fiona is and play on sheep terminology (“You/ewes”).
• Fiona’s Resilience:
  • Sophia references an “encyclopedia” entry, recounting how Fiona survived stranded in a coastal cave for two years before rescue. (07:10)
  • B (K.P.): “She’s resilient. She really is.” (07:30)

Springtime Animal Joy

• Matt: “On my walk yesterday, saw a lot of lambs. Very new lambs. Very tiny. It was great.” (07:46)

• Sophia’s friend’s story of petting capybaras in Uruguay — animals so docile they “flop on their back for tummy rubs” (08:10)

• K.P.’s comparison to less affectionate pets like college roommate’s chinchillas: “They want you dead in a ditch. They just don’t care about you at all.” (08:25)

4. Animal Domestication — What Belongs in an Apartment?

• Chinchilla Woes:
  • K.P. describes the impracticality of keeping unfriendly exotic pets indoors, riffing on the chinchilla’s need for dust baths and their dodging of human affection. (09:17)
• Wistful Speculation:
  • The group speculates about which animals are ready to be domesticated in apartments: raccoons (“they’re primed”), pigeons (already domesticated), capybaras (“maybe we’re close”). (10:02–10:37)
  • C (Sophia): “What about instead of two chinchillas, we got one capybara? … They are much bigger than I knew them to be.” (10:28)

5. Opposable Thumbs: Science, Speculation, and Silliness

• Raccoon Hands:
  • The trio ponders raccoons’ dexterity and whether they possess opposable thumbs.
  • B (K.P.): “The only way you use that word is ever with thumb attached.” (11:52)
• Quick Science Lesson:
  • After consultation, opposable thumbs are “thumbs that can touch the tips of the other fingers,” and the group goofily tests this with their own hands. (13:02)
  • C (Sophia): “A lot of listeners are doing the same right now … we’re all just chameleon fingering our way through this.” (13:26)
• Animals With Opposable Thumbs:
  • The discussion covers which animals have them (primates, koalas, pandas), with Matt noting: “Chameleons. That seems a waste.” (12:41)

6. Animal Affection & Maternal Glory

• Possums as Top Moms:
  • The hosts swap trivia: possums are known for carrying their babies and being great parents.
  • B (K.P.): “Fiona, move aside. … Possums are known for being really, really loving and carrying all their kids on their backs.” (14:45)
• Fiona’s Stardom, Absent Father(s):
  • The group pokes affectionate fun at the media attention on Fiona the Sheep, her new “World’s Best Mom” title, and the total lack of reference to a father figure (“There’s a Mamma Mia-esque plotline happening”). (15:43–16:28)

7. Winding Down: The Nature Bath

• The episode closes with the group realizing the entire chat has been a kind of “nature bath” — unwinding in good company, sharing animal tales and gentle jokes, keeping “Sunday scaries” at bay.
• A (Matt): “We kind of… this whole thing was kind of a nature bath.” (17:21)
• C (Sophia): “Thank you guys for a lovely evening of beautiful tales. I think I’m gonna turn in as well. Good night, you two.” (17:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Adding Max into everything is my new favorite thing.” (A/Matt — 03:10)
• “You do not know the type. People I’m hanging out with, you know? They are cruel. They are really cruel.” (B/K.P. on her friends — 02:02)
• “They want you dead in a ditch. They just don’t care about you at all.” (B/K.P. on chinchillas — 08:25)
• “Fiona, move aside. … Possums are known for being really, really loving and carrying all their kids on their backs.” (B/K.P. — 14:45)
• “What is a hand, really?” (C/Sophia — 13:34)
• “All right. I’d like to see. Show that tape.” (B/K.P., imagining a sheep carrying her baby on her back — 15:15)
• “There is a Mamma Mia-esque plotline happening.” (B/K.P. on Fiona’s unknown sheep partner — 15:43)
• “We kind of… this whole thing was kind of a nature bath.” (A/Matt — 17:21)
• “Thank you guys for a lovely evening of beautiful tales. … Good night, you two.” (C/Sophia — 17:25)

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Timestamps to Key Segments

• [01:17–02:10] — Sunday fun day and the “permission” of Sunday relaxation
• [02:39–03:26] — Nature bathing/naturemaxxing and “max/min” memes
• [04:49–05:01] — Riffing on contacting the paranormal (“Ouij-maxxing”)
• [05:02–07:29] — The saga of Fiona, Britain’s loneliest sheep
• [08:10–09:45] — Differences in pet behavior (capybaras, chinchillas)
• [10:02–10:42] — Brainstorming which animals to domesticate next
• [11:47–13:34] — The science and silliness of opposable thumbs
• [14:45–15:22] — Possums as mothers & Fiona’s maternal credentials
• [17:13–17:25] — Winding down and final thoughts

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Final Thoughts

This Nightly episode is quintessential bedtime audio: warm, amusing, and filled with miniature teachable moments tucked inside playful banter. Listeners are treated to animal lore, linguistic fads, and offbeat “deep thoughts,” all delivered with the gentle friendliness that’s become a Hatch Pillow Fort signature. Whether you’re “naturemaxxing” or merely pursuing the opposite of Sunday scaries, this is an easy-listening celebration of humor, animals, and late-night curiosity.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. You're about to drift into an episode of the Nightly, a podcast designed to help you unwind and relax. For the full phone free immersive light experience. Visit Hatch Co. Enjoy.

[B]

Good evening, all. My name is K.P.

[C]

and I'm Sophia.

[A]

Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch a slumber party for pop culture lovers. And this is the Sunday Pub Chat with me, Matt. How is everybody?

[C]

Pretty good. It's a cozy Sunday.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

We've turned the pillow fort into a pub.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is great for me.

[C]

It's perfect. Exactly what I needed.

[A]

Yeah, it is great. You can't. You can't beat the. You can't beat a Sunday night. It's always been my favorite.

[C]

You really can.

[A]

Favorite day of the week, actually.

[C]

Really? Wow.

[B]

You don't do Sunday scaries.

[A]

Don't do Sunday scaries. Never have done.

[C]

What do you do Sunday? What's opposite of scary Sunday? Bravery.

[A]

Yeah, it's a good point, actually. Just the Sunday. I was going to say melancholy, but it's not even relaxed but happy fun day.

[C]

Oh, there we go. Sunday fun day.

[A]

Sunday fun day.

[C]

You're relaxed but happy.

[B]

I do like that people seem to let you kind of get away with doing your own thing on Sundays. Like if I'm like, ugh, I'm just spending today cleaning. Not true.

[C]

Lying to my teeth.

[B]

But all my friends are like, oh, totally. That's what Sundays are for. So that's kind of nice. I feel like people like get away with chilling out on a Sunday.

[C]

It is a nice reset.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think you even need to lie when it's a Sunday.

[C]

Just.

[B]

You don't know my friends.

[C]

Jamie's like, you do not know the type. People I'm hanging out with, you know, they.

[B]

They are cruel. They are really cruel.

[C]

You might not need to lie, but I do. The way I'm doing it, the way I'm living my life, I gotta lie all the time.

[B]

High pressure situations I'm in.

[A]

I tell you what, what is a. A good thing to do, I think on a. On a Sunday? What I've been trying to make a point of doing recently is to get out and walk and just be outside properly for a bit. And I saw a news article about, you know, when people come up with names for stuff that don't need names.

[B]

Mm, sure.

[A]

They're talking about nature bathing.

[B]

Nature bathing.

[C]

Not just a walk.

[B]

Ralph Walder Emerson's nature bathing.

[C]

Nature bathing. Nature maxing.

[A]

Well, it's just going outside.

[B]

It's like, okay, well, and now there's because there's bed rotting, nature bathing.

[C]

That is very true, kp.

[B]

So now everything has to have a place and then a positive or negative adjective.

[C]

Yeah, well, that's what I was thinking. Nature. Nature maxing.

[B]

Nature maxing.

[A]

Of course, that's what. Adding Max into everything is my new favorite thing.

[B]

I do like it. It's really good.

[A]

Yeah, I'm slop maxing this week.

[B]

I like Ming, too. I've been like, I am sleep min.

[A]

Unfortunately.

[C]

That's good.

[B]

Sometimes things are minning and that's bad.

[A]

I've not heard of mining before. That is, I am kind of trying

[B]

to make it happen. Yeah.

[C]

I think. Is that something you made up or.

[B]

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I had an idea because I. No paranormal things have ever happened to me. I just have, like, you know, that's just my truth. And so I was thinking that maybe I would do something called veil minning. So I'm trying to make my veil from here to the other side smaller. So maybe I would sort of go.

[C]

Otherwise known as veil thinning.

[B]

But it's mint.

[C]

But it's not. It's not. You see, it's Minnie.

[B]

So I thought maybe I would do some scary things to see if maybe I can make my veil very fun.

[C]

What are you. Yeah, what kind of things?

[B]

I'm thinking, you know, Ouij. Get going on the old weeds.

[A]

Be careful with that KP Weed maxing.

[C]

Be careful.

[B]

Ouij. Maxing for my veil mining entity maxing. Portal maxing. Yeah. Put mirrors facing each other.

[C]

That is dark, ominous energy maxing. Within the guidelines of my own home.

[A]

Really rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah, it really does.

[C]

Haunting maxing.

[A]

You might be going about it the wrong way. Like you're going about it in a very scary way, I think.

[C]

I don't think you should start with the Ouija board. I'm gonna be real. Yeah, I really don't think you start with the board.

[B]

No, no, no, I don't want to.

[A]

Yeah. It's like saying that. I really wanna learn how to swim. So I'm just gonna go and jump in the North Atlantic for an afternoon.

[C]

Okay, well, we don't want to. We don't want to scare everyone too much.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So I have got some good news. As it's Sunday, I'm ready. You'll be really pleased to hear it as well. Britain's loneliest sheep, Fiona, has given birth.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

What made her lonely? Sorry, I don't know. I don't know this woman exactly.

[C]

That was My. Sorry, I've never met Fiona. I don't know her. What? Made her lonely?

[A]

Sure. Yeah. No, it's understandable. Fiona is you.

[C]

Wait, what?

[A]

You.

[C]

What does that mean?

[A]

E W, E. Oh, God.

[B]

Female sheep.

[C]

She is me. Okay.

[B]

She is you. She is we.

[A]

She is us.

[C]

She is. She is us. She is the plurality. And we all gave birth to.

[A]

We are all together.

[C]

Okay. She is a you.

[A]

And she was rescued from the foot of a steep coastal cliff in the Scottish Highlands in 2023 after spending years alone.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

That's why she was Britain's loneliest sheep.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And she won hearts all across the globe when she was rescued close to the Chromaty Firth in the Scottish Highlands.

[B]

So they presumably came from somewhere and they kind of went. Moved on without her.

[A]

I guess so. I guess so.

[C]

Got abandoned by the herd. Fml. That is like your community leaves you behind. Can you even believe it? Yes.

[B]

I hate when this happens. Okay. But she now has a family. She's starting.

[A]

She is starting a family. Don't know who the dad is in all this. It was a kayaker who spotted the dad.

[C]

The kayaker dad. Sorry, sorry.

[A]

It was actually kayaker Jill Turner. It's a very modern situation.

[C]

It's a sheep kayaker. It's incredible. You would not believe. Opposable thumbs.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

It's. Apparently the farm said that she's now traded her title from Britain's Loneliest Sheep to World's Best Mom.

[C]

Oh, my God. World's Best Mom.

[A]

I don't know what she's done to get that moniker.

[B]

They're just kind of addicted to giving her labels. I'm sure she's a very normal mom. Just the limelight. I don't want it to go to her head. I worry.

[C]

I'm also. I'm seeing in one of the huge, vast encyclopedias that we have here in the pillow fort. That what they think is that after she fell down the rocky slope when she was young, she was stranded in a cave on a narrow shore for over two years and then was spotted initially in 2021 and then rescued in 2023. Oh, my God.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

She's resilient.

[B]

She really is. Oh, I'm. Yeah, she is cute as can be. I do like sheep.

[C]

They're really, really cute. Yeah.

[A]

Well, the lambs are really. They are really cute as well as. Actually, on my walk yesterday, saw a lot of lambs.

[B]

They're cute.

[A]

Very new lambs. Very tiny. It was great.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, that's amazing.

[B]

Love the spring for that reason. When you see a bunch of baby animals all around, it's so cute.

[C]

Oh, my God. I just saw my friend who went to Uruguay for a wedding and he saw a bunch of capybaras and a bunch of baby capybaras. And I was like, that's just the craziest thing in the world. And they got to pet them. They said, like, they're so, like, socialized with humans that when you walk up to them, they just like flop on their back so that you can, like, rub them on their tummy.

[A]

Wow, wow, wow, that is so good.

[B]

That is ideal because sometimes you see a really cute animal and they hate human guts.

[C]

It's no touching.

[B]

My roommate in college have two chinchillas and like, you look at them and you're like, wow, those are really, really cute to have as a pet. But they want you dead in a ditch. They just don't care about you at all. So you're trying to like pick it up. It's running away. It's just not an ideal pet situation. So it's kind of nice when you get a cool looking animal that enjoys human touch.

[C]

Yeah, it is. Like, in terms of your roommate having two chinchillas.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, let's get into that.

[A]

Obviously.

[B]

Obviously. Obviously. I have some thoughts on that. What do you got?

[C]

Wait, sorry, No, a couple things. I mean, my first thing is I'm like, did. Were they cuddly with her?

[B]

No, absolutely not.

[C]

Okay, so it's like, why even have them kind of where I'm coming from?

[A]

It's such a good question from your

[B]

lips to go, I don't want them. I didn't want them in the place. I mean.

[C]

And was that in a college dorm room?

[B]

No, it was off campus, but it was still a small apartment. I was sharing a room with another girl. And then the chinchilla girl had her own room with two chinchillas. And then the other thing is that they need dust baths so they can't get wet because their fur is too dense that it'll mold. No, guys, you can't get a chinchilla wet. They have to only have a dust bath to clean themselves. And so, you know, that's really tough.

[A]

That is. Were they caged?

[B]

They were caged. And then you'd let them out and then that would be your time to hopefully, like hang out with them. But they didn't want to hang out with you. They just wanted to, like, kind of run up the walls.

[C]

Well, a chinchilla doesn't want to be in an apartment.

[A]

That is a great point.

[B]

There are so many animals that I think we could domesticate.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I go, raccoons. They're primed. They're really primed for this. We're just about to get there.

[C]

They're ready.

[B]

They're ready. Pigeons. I go, sure.

[C]

Well, yeah, they. They already were.

[A]

They are domesticated.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I think we could be if. If she had a pigeon in the apartment. I go, that's kind of cool. I would almost have a good time with that. Chinchilla's like, oh, they're so desperate to not be here, and I don't want them here. Capybara. Maybe we're close. Maybe we could get one capybara in the apartment.

[C]

What about instead of two chinchillas, we got one capybara? They are with the photos. They are much bigger than I. I knew them to be, the capybara.

[B]

Okay. See, that is what has been interesting to me.

[C]

Like, basically the size of a dog almost. Some of them.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah, really big.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

They're very bubbly. They're such round little things.

[A]

Yeah. I'm sort of going off of cartoons and plushies.

[C]

They have crazy teeth, though.

[B]

Yeah. Beaver esque.

[C]

Yes, Very beaver esque. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. I picture that the hair is a little wiry, like a little wiry dog.

[C]

I'd like to pet that. It is. It was really cute. Okay.

[A]

And you can't. So you can't have a capybara as a pet.

[C]

I don't think so.

[B]

Not yet. Which is fine. I go, I don't want to do anything the animal doesn't want to do.

[C]

No, of course not.

[B]

Give me 10 years. Maybe we can get to that.

[C]

We'll see what happens.

[B]

Raccoons. I'm pretty interested. I got one in my backyard now, and I go, maybe the door gets left open.

[C]

A raccoon. So funny. In your apartment. It's standing at your bed rubbing its hands like it does to clean them off. They don't have. Sorry. This is so stupid. Humans are the only animal with actually an opposable thumb. No. A monkey has them. And does a raccoon have one? They have such human hands.

[A]

They have got. It does look like human hands, doesn't it, on a raccoon?

[B]

Okay. They don't have opposable thumbs.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So it's like that thumb is just not opposable, which we all know what that word means, but they're very dexterous. I go, what? Opposable? The only way you Use that word. Is ever with thumb attached.

[C]

Okay, so basically, the animal, I think it's the ability to rotate.

[B]

Oh, the rotating is probably dead, right? Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I bet it is. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Also animals with opposable thumbs. It's mostly. It's primates, marsupials, koalas have them. Giant pandas. That is scary because I feel like they could really do something with that.

[B]

We should not domesticate those.

[C]

They have a giant pant. Actually has a false thumb. A modified wrist bone used to hold bamboo. Amphibians and then chameleons have specialized grasping feet.

[A]

Chameleons. That seems a waste.

[B]

So I have the definition of opposable thumb, too. While we're learning stuff.

[C]

Please.

[B]

It is. Can move independently and can touch the tips of the other four fingers on the same hand, which allows that grip. So it's like the gripping requires the thumb to be able to touch the others. Which makes sense to me now.

[C]

Okay, got it. Good to know. But then I'm just confused about how the other fingers aren't opposable.

[A]

Wait. Because if our fingers aren't opposable, then are they? Because I can't touch my other fingers with my other fingers.

[B]

The tip. I can't touch the tip with the tip.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Because I can touch the nail.

[C]

You're right. You're right, you're right. I was just. I. What I was doing in that moment was touching my fingers to my thumb. And it's like, you're just proving the point.

[B]

And I think a lot of listeners are doing the same right now, to be honest. I think we're all sort of just chameleon fingering our way through this right now.

[C]

We're all just like, what is a hand really?

[A]

I don't know if they are.

[B]

They're like, you guys, you needed to have learned this in third grade. This is scary.

[A]

Yeah. I think, like, five minutes ago they were going, why are they still on this?

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Beauty, not brains, everybody. Beauty, not brains.

[C]

This is what happens when you don't have the Sunday scaries. You don't learn things like this because

[A]

so much time to think about.

[B]

I wish this for raccoons, though. I want them to have that grasping power.

[C]

But they would be even. Honestly, even more powerful because I feel like they really can, like, get to work with their hands.

[A]

Have you ever pet a raccoon, anybody?

[C]

No.

[B]

I'd like to have you.

[A]

No. Well, we don't have raccoons over here.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I was like, you're being quiet with raccoons.

[C]

You're being awfully cagey about the raccoons, Matt.

[A]

But I love them.

[B]

What are you hiding? They're really, really cute. Do you guys have possums?

[C]

That's a good question.

[A]

No. No. But love possums as well. Well, I love the idea of possums. Yeah, they're a real pest, aren't they?

[B]

I think they are. But they're known for being really. I mean. Fiona, move aside. Because they're known for being really lovely mothers.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Possums are known for being really, really loving and carrying all their kids on their backs and doing the best for their. Their babies.

[C]

That's really cute, huh?

[B]

And Fiona could never do that.

[C]

Fiona could never.

[B]

I hate to talk ill of her, but she just doesn't. She just doesn't.

[C]

You don't know that. We can put that. We could put that little sheep on her back, see what happens.

[B]

All right. I'd like to see. Show that tape.

[C]

Roll that. Roll that. I'm like, you have no idea what Fiona is capable of.

[B]

Don't you?

[C]

Ever. And I mean, f. Do not come here. Do not come in here with this.

[A]

Yeah. Remember, she has got the. She's got the title, as well as World's best mom. That's Fiona.

[C]

I know. I am like, what makes her the best mom? I wonder.

[B]

She just gave birth. I'm sorry.

[C]

She just deserves it so much. She's the best mom because she was so sad for so long.

[B]

I do. I do like that. I like also that we're not talking about the father. It's Fiona's time to shine. We don't know who the father is. There's a Mamma Mia esque plotline happening.

[A]

It's Pierce Brosnan.

[C]

Because also the implication that she became. She was. She was even lonely when she mated. Like, do you know what I mean? It's like she's only now not lonely because she has the kid, not because she has her man.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder.

[C]

Maybe he's gone. He's probably a deadbeat.

[B]

He's just. He doesn't have star power. Maybe. Maybe they looked at him and they were like, we cannot put this face.

[C]

He just does not have a face, for.

[B]

He does not have it for the local British newspaper. No. Compared to Fianna, he is just uggo.

[C]

Yeah. He's just busted. They were like, this cannot. This will not stand. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I've been diving deeper, and there's absolutely no. Yeah. Zero mention.

[B]

See, that's good.

[A]

So there you go.

[B]

It's good that he's not using her for her clout, too. I'd hate to see him thank God.

[C]

That would be scary. Yeah, he's on TikTok.

[A]

Or he has just fallen off the same cliff. He's now the world's loneliest she.

[C]

No.

[B]

Dang it. We have to put a fence on this place.

[C]

We'll get to him in about another two years. It's gonna take us two years.

[A]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting pretty sleepy. I think we've covered all we can cover on a Sunday. Kept the Sunday scaries at bay.

[B]

I know we really got deep with the animals, which I loved. It was good to have some. Wait, what was this all about? The nature maxing?

[A]

No, nature bathing.

[B]

We kind of. This whole thing was kind of a nature bath.

[A]

It was.

[C]

It really was. It was. Well, thank you guys for a lovely evening of beautiful tales. I think I'm gonna turn in as well. Good night, you two.

[B]

Good night, Matt and Sophia.

[A]

Good. Sa. To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.