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- [00:01]
A
Audio for sleep by hatch. Hello and good evening, everyone. I'm Josh. Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to rest. It is Sunday night, and listening to this week's episodes, there was something that really jumped out at me. And it was from an episode that I hosted, actually, which is embarrassing to say that, gosh, I was so fascinated by this other conversation that I had that I needed to. I kind of explored further. But that is how I'm feeling because this episode featured me and a caller named Lucy, who was talking about how her partner really values affirmations. And she thinks that she is giving affirmations to this partner. But what he says he's receiving are compliments. And there is a difference there. And I think that is, like, such a sweet thing to be striving towards, right of, like, ugh, I can't figure out how to do affirmations. I can only say compliments. And it's like a really beautiful kind of light conflict to be in. And I thought it would be fun to kind of talk through some of this with my wife Maris, who is here tonight with me. We're going to talk about affirmations and, like, communication and different ways of showing that you care for the people that you love. Relationship goals. Maris and I have been married for nine years. We've been together for 12 years in total. And she's also an accomplished writer and author. She's the writer of the weekly newsletter the Marist Review, which is so good she recommends books. If you're a book reader, I cannot recommend it more highly. I say that with extreme bias. But I am also right. And her essay collection, I Want to Burn this Place down, just came out in paperback a few weeks ago. So that's really exciting, too. The book is really good. Again, I know that I kind of have to say that especially she is listening to me and looking at me right now, but I mean it very much. And I want you, the listener, to know that. So welcome back to the Pillow Fort to my beautiful, brilliant wife, Maris Kreizman. Hi, Marisol.
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B
Hi, Josh. I'm so happy to be here.
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A
I'm very happy that you are here also in our apartment where we both live.
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B
I can sort of hear your voice in the other room.
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A
So when I was talking to Lucy earlier in the week, she mentioned that her husband will explain the idea of affirmations and the difference between affirmations and compliments to her, and she will go, like, got it. And then that distinction, like, immediately flies out of her head. Which I said to Lucy, that's how you describe when someone tells you about the blockchain.
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B
Yes. I can't keep it all in my head. It exists.
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A
But once someone is not telling you
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B
what it is, you can't go on your own.
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A
It doesn't. Yeah. There's no definition. It's all kind of mush. Do you have, like, any thoughts about affirmations versus compliments?
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B
It's so weird to be talking to you about this and in general, because you are sort of the king of the pep talk. Would you say a pep talk is an affirmation or a compliment?
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A
I think it could be either. I don't think a pep talk has to be one or the other. Right. The understanding that I've kind of come to through talking to Lucy and then doing a little outside research, because, frankly, her grasp on it was not masterful, which is why she was calling in. I think a compliment is a little more on the surface, and an affirmation is about a quality someone possesses. A compliment is, hey, that's a really nice outfit you have on today. You look great. And an affirmation is like, you have such a great sense of style. You always dress so well for any occasion.
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B
Yeah, I think that's a fair distinction.
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A
Do you have a preference, compliments versus affirmations?
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B
You know, I had never broken it down this way before.
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A
Me. Me either. I'm really kind of shooting from the hip and, like, you know, we could really be cracking something open right here.
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B
Yeah. Maybe we should practice both.
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A
Okay, let's practice both. Do you want me to start?
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B
Sure.
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A
I'm going to start with the affirmation because it's right on top of things. I always admire the way you, like, take on big projects. Really, like, assertively and intentionally. Like, you really attack a big project. And I feel like that is in direct conflict. Not conflict. It is in direct contrast to the way that I maybe don't do everything at the last minute, but I certainly am not like, ah, I'm going to get this done well in advance, and then it'll. I'll set myself on the path for success. Like, I'll get to it when I get to it.
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B
And you're like, you're just moved if you didn't know.
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A
Totally. Which I've talked about a lot on the show. Yeah, yeah. That's not a secret. But also, like, even when we go away for, like, a weekend and we come home, like, I'll take the dog out and you'll have already unpacked And I'm like, oh, that's. This is gonna be a two week process for me. And, like, 13 and a half of those days will be just, like, stepping over my suitcase.
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B
It is very Virgo of me to not be able to stomach a full bag sitting in the living room.
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A
Totally. And, like, even anywhere else, like. Cause I try not to leave stuff out that way. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I try not to make your life worse because my brain doesn't want to do something, but I do. Like, even I'll put, like, a full duffel bag full of, like, dirty clothes, plus, like, toiletries and, you know, whatever I came back with, it'll just be, like, next to the bed on my side, and I'll step over it before I go to bed for, like, five nights in a row. And then it will, like, occur to me that I couldn't put it somewhere else.
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B
There you go.
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A
Yeah. Okay. So that's the affirmation of, like. I admire your diligence and assertiveness in taking on tasks instead of procrastinating. A compliment is. Oh, your newsletter was so good this week. And you really wrote so beautifully about Julie Bunton's new novel, Famous Men, and Colson Whitehead's new novel, which is the third of his kind of like, Harlem Heist trilogy. What's the new one called?
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B
Cool Machine.
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A
Yeah, Cool Machine. Which. Great title. The first one was Harlem Shuffle, and then the second one was a third thing.
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B
Yeah, I'm not gonna pull that.
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A
But you always make stuff sound. I was gonna say it always sounds so good, but I don't. I think what you do is you make everything sound like the best possible version of what it is, which is, like, a very cool skill and like, one you work really hard at. Cause I find sometimes people can make things sound too good. Not in a dishonest way, but I used to get tricked all the time. I don't know if you ever had this, but I used to get tricked by, like, Pitchfork reviews. Specifically. I'd read Pitchfork.com and I would read about some band.
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B
Then I'm like, 9.8.
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A
Yeah. I was like, wow, this sounds really good and complex and layered and interesting. And then I would listen to it, and especially with something like a noise rock or like a heavy metal, I'd be like, this to my unrefined palette, sounds the same as the stuff you don't like. And I think you make books sound like what they are and a great version of what they are when you like them.
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B
Thank you.
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A
You're welcome.
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B
I feel very affirmed.
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And complimented.
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And complimented.
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A
Good, good, good.
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B
I've told you this before, but one of the things that I just really admire about you is how you check in with friends. If I have a half hour on the train, I'm going to bring a book.
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A
Yeah. Well, you're going to enrich your mind.
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You're going to enrich your friends, and that's the coolest thing in the entire world. And you check in on everyone, and I think you're a ray of light to so many people, me included.
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A
That's really lovely of you to say. And it, like, is nice to hear that, because I feel like partly what I'm doing is, like, strengthening bonds with people that I care about, and then part of it is, like a refusal to be alone with my own thoughts.
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B
Here's a compliment. Most people are a little deranged by their phones, and I don't think you are.
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Thank you.
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B
You manage to be a normal person and still look at your phone a lot, and I don't think that many people can do that.
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Thank you. Do you think you're good at taking compliments?
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If I think they're sincere, yeah.
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Okay.
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B
You know, I think that we are socialized to compliment people all the time.
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A
Sure.
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B
You were very good at, like, if we're at a restaurant and the server comes over and they're wearing pretty earrings, you point that out.
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A
Well, the last time I did that, which I did recently, we were out with our friends Stuart and Charlene, and the server at this restaurant that we were at had earrings that were little guillotines, which I thought was, like, kind of a bold choice to wear to your job. But I love. I was like, this is cool. And it was very funny because I think earrings are something where when you compliment them on someone, I would say at least 50% of the time I've told someone I like their earrings, they have had to reach to their ears and touch them to see what earrings they're wearing. And I think, like, me noticing the earrings guillotines, saying that her touching her ears, realizing what they were and being like, huh? Was like a very funny little moment.
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B
Yeah, I love that.
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Do you have a compliment that you give often that you mean a lot, but that feels specific to you? Like, this is something that you think you offer to other people that they don't get everywhere?
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B
Ooh, that's a good question. Going back to my newsletter, like, that is the thing I'm good at is affirming writers and selling their books. And I'm not really getting a cut. I just love it.
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Well, people, you used to have a podcast of the same name and also the Marist interview. And I think people really felt. Authors really felt that you gave their books a generous read. And not. Not that you loved every book, which is obviously not true, but you met the author where they were trying to get to, and I think that's a really special quality. And I think those authors feel very seen and affirmed by it in a way that I don't know that everyone who writes or talks or thinks about books works as hard as you do to really generously, like, open your heart and mind to what you're reading.
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B
Thank you.
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A
You're welcome.
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B
You know, I think that the podcast made me realize that I'm a reader and I have my own experiences. And then when you talk to an author about what they're intending to do and what they didn't realize that they were doing, you kind of see the whole book in a different light. And that, to me, is really cool. Let's get a little meta, though, for a second, because you're so good at this, what we're doing. You're so good at talking to people, whether it's in person or on a podcast or you just. You have an easy way about you.
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A
People definitely feel like they can say anything to my face. No, thank you. That's very sweet of you to say. I like that, though. I like creating. It makes me feel good to create an environment or cultivate a presence in a room where people feel like they can say what's on their mind. Because. I think so many people feel like the questions that are normally asked, or if you phrase a question in a kind of conventional way, you want the conventional answer. Does that make sense? Like, if you're like, how are you? And people will be like, fine. And I'm like, don't give me fine. Give me something like. And I'm pro small talk. I'm not anti small talk.
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B
Yes, yes.
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But, like, you don't have to say fine. Like, if you're like, fine, we don't need to get into it. I'm like, get into it.
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B
Yes, we do.
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A
What else? Yeah, this is what we're here for. We just were watching this morning a clip of Joe Firestone on who former guest of the podcast and hopefully future guest of the podcast. She had just put out her second book, Sex on Murder Island. It's the sequel to Murder on Sex Island. And she was trying to remember the quote, the Mary Oliver quote from her poem about your one wild and precious life.
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I'm proud of you for knowing that.
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Yeah, of course. It's, like, one of four poetry quotes I know. And it's like the one that I see on Instagram go viral, like, every 12 days. But. And it's great. I, like, love that quote. I think it's really, like, beautiful and tender. And Jo was, like, trying to remember it and trying to, like, lead sad, and he just was, like, not. It was so funny.
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We were talking about Love Island. He was not going to marry Oliver.
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But I bring that up to say, like, I do think there is a utility to small talk and, like, only opening up as much as you feel is safe in a given situation or is, like, appropriate in a given situation. But I also think, like, we shouldn't shut each other off from, like, giving real answers just for the sake of, like, politeness and possible decorum.
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Yeah, I think especially one on one. I don't know if you're in a room full of people.
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No, totally.
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Yeah.
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And you don't. You don't need someone to, like, air all their business in front of, like, a room of varying levels of, like, trust and comfort.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
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Do you have. I guess, like, we've really been talking about, like, compliments and affirmations this whole time and haven't, like, spiraled further out, So I will ask you, are there compliments that you have received or that even. Do you have compliments that you've seen other people receive that you're like, why not me?
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B
Oh, that's a good one.
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Like, what's the best compliment you've ever seen in the wild? And it could be one that you received even.
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B
I can't think of a specific example. But I do know that it's when you're talking about someone's intentions that the best compliments are about, like, who you are as a person. And if you're being seen that way,
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A
I think Lucy would say that her husband would say that. That's an affirmation.
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B
Well, then I'm failing.
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A
No, no, no, no, no. What I mean is, like, I think you're getting to the same place as we were talking about before of, like, oh, that is, like, a deeper level. Although I'll tell you what, this is one that I received. A stranger on the train sitting across from me kind of, like, motioned like, hey, take out your headphones. And I did. And he was like, those are great shoes. And it was like, a stranger feeling so moved by my sneakers that he had to be like, whatever you're doing, this is important. And obviously there are ways that strangers give attention to other strangers. That feels unasked for in an unpleasant way especially. I know that happens to women a lot, but dude to dude, just kind of broing out over sneakers as like, this I'm gonna, this is gonna be with me for weeks. And I like explained, I was like, oh, they're these Japanese only release of New Balance and I bought them secondhand and they're so comfortable. And he was like, hell yeah, man. And I was like, woo. Just like I was on fire. I feel like I could do no wrong that day.
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Yeah.
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A
Is there like a compliment or an affirmation you'd like to put out there to someone in the world that is that you just kind of hope they feel it out there? I know you're saying you're not like super mystical woo woo astrology, but just energy you want to put out into the world, compliment or affirmation wise?
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B
Yeah. I think I come back to this a lot when we talk to each other and I know a lot of friends are in the same position. They're creative, smart, wonderful people and sometimes the industries that they were trying to work in no longer really support them. And I know everyone knows, like, it's not you, it's the system. But it's so important to like really know that like, you are not unemployable, you are brilliant. And a world that was fair would have you being brilliant for money. And it's not a reflection of you. It's not you, it's them.
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A
Oh, that's such a good affirmation or compliment. This is for Lucy to decide. We'll have her on to tell us how that how we did on these. Maris, thank you so much for joining. I really like, can't recommend your book and newsletter enough to listeners and this was really nice of you to take the time to come on and chat with me on this Sunday night episode. We do this every Sunday night. We have an expert on. It's like a really wonderful time. But the rest of the week it is a listener call. So if you are a listener and you want to get in touch, shoot us a voice memo or an email at the night leach co. We would love to hear from you. And Maris, I always love to hear from you and it's time to hang up and continue our conversation in the other room.
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B
I love you.
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A
I love you. Good night to you and good night to listeners.
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B
Good night.
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A
To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience. Head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.