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- [00:01]
A
Audio for sleep by hatch. Hello and good evening. I'm Josh. Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch where your late night thoughts go to rest. We had such a great episode earlier in the week. If you haven't listened to it yet, I highly recommend it. Where guest host Amanda Montel talked to caller Katie about the subject of pleasant grocery store shopping experiences. And so we thought Sunday night it would be nice to talk to an expert on grocery stores and shopping experiences. So tonight with me I have Jonathan Radens. He is the owner of Merchandise Food, a food retail consulting company based in South Carolina. And we're going to talk grocery stores. Jonathan, welcome to the nightly thank you.
- [01:08]
B
Pleasure to be here.
- [01:09]
A
Thanks so much. I really appreciate your time. So how do you get into food retail consulting and then follow up question, what is that? Can you tell me a little bit about what your job entails?
- [01:21]
B
Sure. I grew up on a small farm in western New York. Our family sold fresh produce and had the experience to pursue a degree in food marketing and distribution and had encountered most aspects of the food business, from restaurants to food manufacturers to retail with a group called Wegmans in western New York, which is really known for their service and their store experiences. And after spending a bit of time there, I decided that so many stores had the opportunity to improve those experiences and their retail strategy and profitability. So I started a company about 12 years ago to do just that. So but we're just out helping retail food stores and grow, enhance their profitability and create better environments for people to enjoy them.
- [02:04]
A
So when you said you noticed that retail spaces and food retailers, grocery stores, had the opportunity not just to increase their profit but to make their strategy and experience better. Like what were the big things you were noticing?
- [02:19]
B
Well, so many stores don't change, they don't use their space well to introduce folks to new products. You know, they might have a lot of items in a long aisle and nothing really stands out too much other than maybe something with a price tag on it for sale.
- [02:33]
A
Sure.
- [02:34]
B
And so I think the most exciting part of food experiences is interacting with new items or exploring. De Bruno Brothers in Philadelphia coined the term culinary pioneering finding new items. And so the way stores are set up and the way that their staff presents those things to folks, whether it's through sampling, demoing, strong presentation, unique displays, interactive experiences and events in store can really make a notable impression for folks being introduced to those new things they haven't tried before.
- [03:07]
A
Is there any place that you've seen or that you've worked with that you Thought really knocked something out of the park in terms of an introduction to a new kind of food for people in a really spectacular or even gentle but really effective way. Specifically.
- [03:24]
B
Well, I hate to take personal credit, but please do. One of the biggest things that came to mind is a special event that we had for farms Wagman's in Buffalo, New York, years ago. We actually wanted to feature local farm. So we brought in, you know, like an item we never really sold very often, but we brought in zucchini blossoms and like, just for that special day, had them available so people could batter them and fry them up, you know. And we also brought in this special item called a garlic scape. And so we knew the family farm that grew them south of Buffalo, so we, we brought them in and featured them in the store. And we made garlic scape pesto in the demo station adjacent to their interacting with custom. So we had a new item we didn't normally have that day, which was this really special treat with olive oil and parmesan cheese and garlic scapes, you know, with this unique flavor profile. But then we also had the farm there talking about their growing practices. They had a, you know, laptop there with video of their farm, and so folks really got to experience it. And then we had all the items in addition to the item we made there available for people to. To purchase and take home with a recipe to do that. So, I mean, people see these things often in stores, but it takes a lot of effort and put it together, and it also creates a memorable experience.
- [04:40]
A
Totally. And it sounds like you're like bringing that kind of farmer's market, human touch feel into the grocery store there.
- [04:47]
B
Yeah, I would say so. And it's. It's funny because we. We also work with a lot of farms and it's. I'll often tell farms, like the grocery stores are doing a better job than you are feeling like a farm.
- [04:59]
A
In what way? Like, what do you think the. Like, what is something that you're always telling farms to do that you're noticing in grocery stores?
- [05:07]
B
Well, I. You know, a grocery store probably has some corporate office as a marketing department, and, you know, really high quality imagery of a farmer. Farmers, you know, that they partner with that even the farm itself might not have.
- [05:19]
A
Yeah.
- [05:19]
B
And in some cases, the grocery store might be featuring the produce element, the fresh produce elements, and the farm might be featuring apple cider donuts.
- [05:28]
A
Sure.
- [05:29]
B
Or apple cider slushies. So in some ways they're both trying to do the same thing. But the grocery stores are trying to leverage an on farm experience or to connect the dots to, to, for people to feel like they have that connection to locally grown things or the, the farmers themselves or the, or the land nearby.
- [06:00]
A
Going back to your experience growing up on a farm, what is something that you feel like you're bringing from that experience to the grocery stores?
- [06:10]
B
Well, I can appreciate all the hard work that goes into the process. I mean literally planting, harvesting, wholesaling and retailing produce. Growing up gave me a strong work ethic and, and a connection to what it takes to get those things there. So I think one of the things that the best retailers, grocery retailers do is they, they have the ability, just like Disney, to storytell.
- [06:33]
A
Yeah.
- [06:33]
B
You know, to, to pinpoint what those unique elements are in that farming process or that, that particular variety they're growing or that hundred year family generational farm, you know, that's putting this corn on the, on ice in the store. There's a lot infused in that. And that's I think, what's exciting and interesting about it.
- [06:55]
A
That's such an interesting point of like how much it takes to bring the produce to the grocery store and like what, what work that takes from so many different angles and like walk into a market or grocery store for the first time. What are some things you're noticing right away? What are some things that you're like, oh, this is great or this could be done better. What really grabs you on your way in?
- [07:18]
B
Well, generally folks are leading with exciting, fresh departments and I think new modern equipment is limiting some of the barriers that have been there in the past that have kept those things a bit separate in the retail experience. Like grocery over here, fresh over here, merchandising in specific temperature zones. But more and more folks are finding, you know, supplemental shelf management tools or merchandising techniques that are allowing for those things to be more joint, if you will, you know, and exciting.
- [07:48]
A
It sounds like all this space has the opportunity to be really intentional.
- [07:52]
B
Right.
- [07:52]
A
Like both in how. Where merchandise is being presented to customers and like how they're being led through the space. What the, like you said, temperature control even plays such a factor or has historically played such a factor in the experience of being in a grocery store. What are the things you think that shoppers don't realize are being designed with such intention that just feel like part of the experience? You know what I mean? Is there anything that you're like, oh, this is done so carefully and when done right, people don't notice.
- [08:23]
B
Oh, absolutely. The flows of the store, the later the stores, the location of departments, the products that are featured in particular areas, you know, the optimizing, the specific selling zones, the views and orientations in which someone would approach a display. Those are all things we're helping people with. And I, I tell our clients often, like, there's a million ways you could set up a store and some of those tend to be more enjoyable and exciting and promoting things that people are going to want to come back and buy and enjoy experiencing.
- [08:52]
A
Are there things that like, you're just like, oh, this is like money that some markets or grocery stores are leaving on the table by not doing this kind of like warm, inviting thing.
- [09:03]
B
I think having humans in the department interacting and encouraged to build relationships and solve people's needs, you know, bringing them somewhere if they're asking a question.
- [09:17]
A
Yeah.
- [09:18]
B
Rather than just like pointing or, you know, operating autonomously, like someone just stocking a display versus, you know, genuine hospitality in space. And I would say over the last few years we've seen a lot of that abandoned with, you know, pressure on retail. Retail models, you're seeing less labor in the space or maybe even training or efforts in those areas. But I think some of that, what you're talking about comes from premium signature, intentional displays and merchandising techniques that feature fresh or attractive or seasonal or compelling new items that, that the retailer is proud of.
- [09:53]
A
Yeah.
- [09:53]
B
And then a lot of it's supplemented with the human interaction that there are, you know, something you can't get just clicking a button and haven't delivered to your car, that or your home. And I think, you know, in general folks are going to want to continue to have those authentic, exciting, educational experiences. I think it's more important than ever, you know.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think what you just said about experiences with like a well staffed, helpful staff at a store that feels so good and you really feel the absence of it like pretty acutely, you know, like I feel like a lot of drugstores now, pharmacies, the big chain ones, there's, you really have to seek someone out to help you and everything is locked up and it's just such an unpleasant shopping experience at times. And so like to have like you said, to have someone who is not just stocking a shelf and then you have to like chase them down for an, for a face to face experience, but someone whose job it is to like be engaged with customers is so helpful.
- [10:52]
B
Yeah. And if you think about the implications there, if someone buys a steak but they don't cook it well because they didn't talk it through with their local butcher or something like that or you know, so they, they bought something from you, you got a sale, but they, they didn't, you know, they might actually have had a negative impression or would never come back and buy it again because they had that experience. And you're seeing other retailers enhancing that. You know, companies like Seven Brews who even have a drive thru but are leaning into the customer interaction in that drive through process, they've recognized that that human interaction is required and essential to the building their brand. And as more and more stores invest in giving their, their team members direction and professional development and strategy and talking points or even just generally that they're empowered to interact with guests, it not only I think builds that connection point in the relationship with the customer, but also expands business opportunities. You know, it's like if someone's got a family event coming up, like just getting to know them a little bit could help open the door for another sale, you know, for sure.
- [12:01]
A
And then from like a customer point of view. Right. People talk about their favorite grocery stores, whether it's something regional like a Publix or a place that they really enjoy shopping and find items that are really like exciting to them, like a Trader Joe's, I feel like does that really. Well, people really speak about the like character of those establishments in terms of the experience. Like what gives a grocery store a specific personality other than just being like positive customer satisfaction experience.
- [12:31]
B
Yeah. And if it's you know, Hawaiian shirt and empowerment and not even empowerment, but an expectation that you're going to be interacting with the folks who are there, I mean that's sure those are memorable things. And especially for a store like Trader Joe's, you know, they have such unique new items and they're cycling things through. And you know, when you see like staff pick stickers on the side of a display, it's kind of just helping them connect with their customer base, keeping things fresh and exciting for folks and they're providing a way for folks to learn about it.
- [12:59]
A
Yeah, and like staff picks is like such a personal thing. Like it almost makes the grocery shopping experience feel like being at like an old school video store or like a bookstore.
- [13:07]
B
Right.
- [13:09]
A
So our caller this week, Katie, was talking about her experience in the checkout line and enjoying like the small talk with other customers and with I think the staff as well. So like are there ways other than mandating, like you were saying, the expectation that you're going to talk to the staff and that they will have like suggestions and information for you, Are there other ways you can kind of, like, foster that sense of, like, you're not just here to, like, buy a roast chicken and then run home. You're here because this is, like, part of your experience being out in the community.
- [13:45]
B
Yeah. I think the stores that have that their culture and the environment, you know, is something people want to be a part of. Like, their brand is so well known and beloved that the people who visit the store feel like they're a part of it. That's, I think, when the walls come down and folks will interact with other people in the community or just be friendly to the person in front of or behind them in a line because. Because they can resonate with that person. You know, they're part of the club. And I think that environment fosters that where it's not fake and it's not just a, you know, a mandated hello, but it also can just influence others in the space.
- [14:28]
A
Last question before I let you go. You grew up on a farm. You worked selling fresh produce and seeing that whole process through. You now work with grocery stores. Do you have a favorite vegetable or piece of fresh produce that you always kind of look for when you're looking around? Like, ooh, they have a good fresh this. And it gives you an affection for the place.
- [14:57]
B
I think one of my favorites is probably a good watermelon.
- [15:00]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [15:01]
B
I'll give you my tip that I learned, but hopefully not at the sake of them not being available for myself any longer out there in the field. But I usually look for melon that looks nice and green but has good strong contrast to the lighter colors. So really green and really light. And that it's heavy for its size.
- [15:21]
A
Mm, a density of melon.
- [15:23]
B
Yeah. And that usually means it's pretty juicy. And I found it to be a pretty good consistent. It's not always, but pretty good consistent indicator for finding one.
- [15:32]
A
This is a huge tip for listeners. High contrast, a lot of mass packed into the volume of a melon. That's what you're looking for. So at the end of every episode of the nightly, we like to say goodnight to anyone out there in the world that you would like to wish sweet dreams to. So I can go first. If you need a second to think of someone. I would like to say goodnight to the guy who works at my local bodega, the local corner store. He's up all night and I just hope that he has a restful experience and gets to sleep in the morning smoothly. Jonathan, do you have any good nights?
- [16:08]
B
Yeah, I'D like to say goodnight to my beautiful wife who needs as much help as she can to get a wonderful night's sleep.
- [16:16]
A
Well I'm glad we gave her the leg up here. Good night Jonathan and thank you so much for being here. This has been such a wonderful conversation.
- [16:24]
B
It's my pleasure.
- [16:25]
A
Have fun shopping and listeners. If you want to come onto the show and talk about anything from your favorite produce aisle to why you always back into a parking space when you get into the grocery store parking lot or anything else really, we would love to hear from you. This is a listener driven show. We love to talk to you so please send an email or a voice memo to thenightlyach co. That's t h e nightlyatch co. Thank you so much for listening and good night. Sam sa. Sat. To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.