Travel Agents vs. Decision Fatigue - The Nightly

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[00:01]
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Audio for sleep by hatch.
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Hello and good evening everyone. I'm Josh. Welcome to the nightly from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to rest. I am feeling so fortunate lately because my wife and I had a bunch of chaos happen at our old apartment. And that kind of tips that what happened was we lived somewhere and now we live somewhere different. And we were able to find a new place really smoothly, which was nice. And the big, big thing that's very exciting was like, we lived in the same cozy little spot for nine years and we had to move out on shortish notice, which was a little stressful. But we ended up in this new apartment with like, beautiful natural light. And like, the big complaint that we had in almost a decade at the place we used to live was that it just kind of felt like, dim a little bit, even on really nice days. And we always were like, oh, this is so comfy. And we, we love it here and we love the neighborhood, but like, if we ever move, this is the thing we want. And we have these beautiful windows, these giant windows, which you have not had for years and years. And it is just so wonderful to like. Also the other thing about these windows is that they are south and west facing, which means, like, in the morning there's a ton of sunlight, but it's not like, glaring. So if we want to sit and have coffee and like, look out, we can like see to Manhattan from our apartment in Brooklyn, New York, which is like, really thrilling. And we have a little terrace for having morning coffee on. And so we're like, so lucky and so grateful to have come out of this, like, true chaos that I don't want to stress you out by describing in too much detail, but we're on the other side of it and it's really nice and it makes me feel so relaxed going to bed at night because we've also. It took a couple days, but we are mostly out of the woods with boxes from the move, which is a real relief. You see the boxes and you get a little like, oh, where am I? Am I living? Like, I'm on the run from the law. But now that we've got our couch set up and my wife has these huge bookshelves and all of her books are set up. And so we're like, really at ease and enjoying the sunlight in the morning and the cozy, comfy vibes at night. And I just wanted to convey that at the beginning of the show because having a personal space that's set up and really the way you want it is such A relief. And I'm not a type A person. I'm like, type. I don't know, probably m like, way down the list. So stuff like that doesn't bother me a ton. But my wife Kwai offered to help. We had all these friends offering to help us move. And I said, do you need someone to help you put your books on the shelves? Do you need someone to help you put your books on the shelves? And she said, I'm too much of a Virgo for that. So she's a little type A and I'm a type Z. But even with, like, the way my brain works, it's such a relief to know where all our stuff is and, like, have all my T shirts in the drawer and all clothes hung up where we want them. And it's really nice. And I'm in, like, a great state of mind to talk to a listener caller tonight, I guess. Without any further ado, welcome to the Nightly Holly, thank you so much for being here.
[04:21]
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Oh, thank you so much, Joss.
[04:23]
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Thank you. It's such a pleasure. Where are you calling in from, Holly?
[04:27]
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I'm calling in from the Bay Area. California. South Bay, to be specific.
[04:34]
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I love that any place where, like, nature and city are really close together is, like, really special.
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The ocean's not far away, which is also amazing.
[04:45]
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Yeah.
[04:46]
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Get there in 30 minutes, depending on where you are in the Bay Area. So it's pretty fantastic.
[04:51]
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That's wonderful. And so, Holly, what have been your late night thoughts? What's been keeping you up at night? Or what have you been thinking about as you drift off to sleep?
[05:00]
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Yeah. The thing that has been bugging me for a bit is that I am coming to terms with the fact that. That neither myself nor my hand are international travel planners. It has not sparked joy for us to figure out the logistics of a trip that both of us have been talking about for several years now, which I'm embarrassed to admit. And yeah, people who know me know that I have been saying, we want to go to Costa Rica. We want to go to Costa Rica. And just. But we are sort of stuck in this decision fatigue spot where he's not a planner and I'm not a planner. We are great travel buddies. Both of us have had the good fortune of wonderful family members and friends who are phenomenal planners and love to get into the details of where we're going and how we're getting there and what we're doing while we're there. And both he and I are like, sure, sign us up. Tell us what we owe you. We'll be there. We'll get up for the sunrise hike. But, you know, so we'll do that. We'll do the trip and we'll do. We'll go, you know, head first, diving right in. But if you ask us to plan it with a blank slate, we're like. And it's been like that for years, Josh. So that has been bugging me. I need to figure out how to, like, break through this, like, you know, speed bump when it comes to planning this trip.
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Okay. I extremely relate to this because I am not a planner. I am like a true. I was kind of talking about this in the intro to tonight's chat of, like, I'm a real go the flow person. I'm, like, pretty adaptable. And so I think that is a good quality. But it also isn't a quality that, like, gets plane tickets booked or hotel reservations.
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Right. That part.
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Where are some of the places you've been with family and, like, on previous trips and what are the things you've most enjoyed doing?
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Yeah, so we. Our last, like, big international trip was to London, and it was so fun, but a girlfriend of ours planned it great. And basically played travel host for us, which was fantastic.
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Incredible.
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Yeah. And, you know, we just did. It was a variety. We kind of did walking tours. She had a couple of spots and that she knew this is a great place to eat. This has a great view. This is a really cool market. I am a huge fan of Les Nadirab. So we went and saw Les Mis on the West End, and that was extremely memorable for me. So it was just a nice mixture of Some of it was planned, some of it was just very much like, let's just wander and see what we run into and discover. But I do well with having, like, a clear plan of like, we're getting up at this time or we have a reservation at this spot. I kind of. I need that structure. I've noticed.
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Yeah, but you don't like to do it. You don't like to create this structure.
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It is like, give me the option.
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Could. Could not be more. Could not be more on the same page as you for this. I love an itinerary.
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Right.
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Hate to create an itinerary. And what are the. Like, what about Costa Rica has been on your list? Like, why. Why is that a place that's been so appealing for so long, even though you're like, God, I would love to go there, and I do not want to make the plans to go there at all?
[08:20]
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Yeah, I You know, I have had several people that I know have gone and have raved about it and just said is, you know, I'm a big fan of nature and being outside and plants. Like, my home is filled with house plants. Like, I just love greenery. And so the foliage there, the butterflies, just the access to these beautif trails and waterfalls. So for me, the proximity to, you know, forest and jungle and also the coast and just, you know, I think they have, like, is it pura vida? Is there, like, country phrase? I haven't been. So I don't know for a fact, but, you know, just, like, good vibes, right? Yeah. It just seems like such a grounded, relaxing place to hang out, but also to explore, so.
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Totally.
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That's. That's. That's what appealed to me. And my. Also, my husband speaks Spanish and Great by proxy. I have, like, learned through, you know, with him. And so just being somewhere where we can feel like we can actually engage with the local culture is really appealing to me too.
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For sure. Yeah. That sounds really awesome. This sounds like a great trip if. If you ever get around to getting it on the books.
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Right.
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Is. Is there a friend you can trick into planning this one?
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Right. And I feel like that is what I need to do. You know, I've. I've been thinking, like, oh, we can do it on our own. We're going to figure this out. And that's really where I've been torn of, you know, do people still use travel agents? Like, is that a thing? I know, like, years ago that was a big deal. I don't know.
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So they do.
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Okay.
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There are still travel agents, and I think this is, like, a real. I think this would be so cool to, like, have that experience. I also, like, I don't know what the price of a travel agent is, but my hunch is that it's the kind of service that you're. That, like, if. If you have a budget in mind for the trip, I. I bet you can do it without, like, exploding that budget. You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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Like, I don't. Are you like this at all? If there's a thing I've never done before, had or had professionally done for me, I always assume it costs an exorbitant, prohibitive amount of money.
[10:25]
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Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's. I think there's, like, the sticker, you know, price tag, fear to totally. What is this going to be?
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Right, right, right, right. And, like, I remember I have someone that I pay to do my taxes now because I tour a lot and, like, I have all these different little jobs, and so it's kind of complicated, and it's annoying for me to do. So I pay someone. And the first time, I think it's gone up a little bit. But the first time I ever did it, it was because my wife and I had started dating, and I was like, oh, I'm really dreading doing my tax, and I've dragged my feet. And I had to apply for an extension. And she was like, go to my guy. And I was like, oh, but what does that cost? Like $5,000? And she's like, no, it's a $400. And I was like, oh, $400 is an amount of money I have to make this specific problem go away. I can't spend $400 on everything in my life, but on this, I certainly can.
[11:21]
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Yeah, Such a good point.
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And so I wonder if this is like, that, where it's like, oh, there's a fee here, but. But, like, it's not doubling the cost of our vacation, certainly.
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And if it's actually making the vacation happen, then it's, you know, doing.
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Then it's super worth it.
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Right, Right. It's worth the investment. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I think that's because you have been
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saving money by not going on vacation so far.
[11:48]
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It's there, it's available. We just need to. Yeah. Make it happen. And I think the other part of it, too, is, you know, knowing that there's this budget set aside for us to go travel, then you kind of get into the. Gosh, everyone's talking about Japan right now and saying how wonderful it is to go to Japan, you know, and all these other places.
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Yeah. You see someone on Instagram, like an old college friend or like a work acquaintance, you're like, wow, they're in the Amalfi coast of Italy. Maybe that's where I need to go.
[12:18]
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Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That is for sure. What has also been happening is this sort of like, maybe. Maybe we go here instead. But, you know, and the thing is, you know, I need to remind myself, if we just go on this one trip, like, there you go. We figured it out. And now next year, we can make this an annual tradition.
[12:35]
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Totally.
[12:36]
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You know, I can go to all those other places, too.
[12:39]
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You have to, for lack of a more elegant term, break the seal.
[12:43]
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Mm, yes. Yeah. Push through. Make it happen. So is your wife the planner? Like, how do the two of you travel with.
[12:51]
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Oh, yeah, she's much plannier than I am.
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Okay.
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And I've. I've Gotten better since we've been married, I've gotten better and. Cause we also kind of drag our feet sometimes on planning big things because we're both like, well, what if something comes up and we'll wanna be here? But that's, like, in my experience. I don't wanna say never happened, but it's like, it's not. You can't go through life, I think, not making plans in case something better happens at every turn.
[13:25]
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Yeah, carpe diem. You just gotta go for it, especially
[13:27]
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when it's something you're excited to do. My parents are planning a big trip for their 50th wedding anniversary, which is in a couple years. And they're, like, already so excited about it. And we're gonna go with them. And I'm going to recommend my friends. Just did a river cruise in Europe with one of their sets of parents, my friend Stuart and Charlene, who are married, and they brought Stuart's parents on a river CRU cruise. And they went through. They have a friend who's a travel agent who I've met and is wonderful. And they said that experience, specifically these folks. But the experience of working with a travel agent who is capable and thoughtful and a good listener and a creative planner is such a relief. And it's so nice because I think we've been so conditioned to not expect customer service, but those jobs that are customer service forward, people are really experts at it, and it's so soothing.
[14:29]
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Yes. Yeah. And, you know, the reality is they're experts on the locations that they're recommending to you. Right. I mean, that's. That's been. You know, I've had people say, oh, just, you know, use AI to figure out your trip. Just plan it that way. And sure, that. That can produce an itinerary for me, but I want the expertise of, hey, I've been there, I've stayed at this location. It's great because it's close to this spot and you want to, you know, get in line earlier, make a reservation like I want. Somebody has lived it and walked it and tried it to point me in the right direction, too.
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Yeah, absolutely. I think having that experience and that personal touch is so much better. I mean, to me, even better than classic using whatever websites people use to book stuff that I use all the time or my fear with using something like a chatbot or whatever is they don't. They don't have the. Like, they're not gonna call the place.
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Right.
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And make the reservations and. And, like, if something goes wrong, you can't, like, call ChatGPT and be like, hey, they say they don't have a reservation, and ChatGPT will be like, whoops, I didn't make it.
[15:36]
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Right. Figure it out for me.
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I don't know anything. Yeah, exactly.
[15:40]
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So, like, that's such a good point, Josh.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. Having that advocate, I really think that
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that human touch is, like, so helpful, especially when you're like, oh, I'm dealing with maybe a bunch of reservations too, because that's it. I get. Specifically, I'll. I'll do one part of it, and then I just get exhausted where it's like, okay, I booked the hotel and I booked the flights. What are we doing all day? I have no idea. And I don't want to think about it.
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Yeah. Yes. And I think that. Yeah. Figuring out that balance of how much is relaxation and how much is, like, hit the ground running. Yeah, you gotta. Yeah. And that's where I think the travel agent can also advise. Right. And give better.
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Totally. I. I think this is, like, such a good plan, and it's, like, certainly worth exploring. And I don't know, like, you. It sounds like we're very alike in terms of our, like, psychological makeup around travel and recreation. But it, like, takes a lot for me to jump that barrier from, like, I've never called a travel agent to, like, oh, I found one that I like, and this is amazing.
[16:47]
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Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I just. I need to make the call. And that part of this is, like, it's good accountability to talk to you about it. Right. Make it very public.
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That's what I'm for.
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I want to go on this trip.
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The nightly is mostly about accountability. We're holding people to account on here. Yeah.
[17:04]
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So appreciate this team.
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Of course. So is this. So do you have, like. Do you have, like, dates in mind? Are you like, oh, this will be for the holidays, or is it just kind of. We'll figure it out. It's been a rolling thing so long that it's just kind of whenever.
[17:20]
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Yeah, the latter. You nailed it. I think at one point I Googled, like, when's the best time to go and when is, like, storm season, you know?
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Yep.
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So I need to figure that out. Like, that's probably step one, is when is storm season? I don't want to go when there's, you know, hurricane potentially happening.
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But, yeah, see, okay, now we're planning. Now we're playing it with gas here.
[17:40]
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Yes. Narrow down the time and then. Yeah, commit. So I'm getting closer. This is. This conversation really has helped unlock some of the inhibition and just reminded me it's important and there are resources out there that can support me in making this happen.
[18:01]
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Yeah, there's a whole industry and it's probably not as big as it once was, but, like, there are people to call. What a relief. Gosh, if I. Because I'm not a great delegator, but, like, the idea of when someone is an expert and you can go to them for something, gosh, incredible.
[18:21]
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Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. Now I feel empowered to make this next move. Get in touch with a travel agent.
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This is going to be huge.
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Yes.
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Well, call us. Feel free to call us back and let us know on the show. Like, how did that go? Did you. Did you get the dates on the books? Is it too far? Is our holiday season there? Is our holiday season there, rainy season, et cetera. But, like, yeah, let us know. I can't wait to hear how this shapes up because, like, this is going to be so exciting and, like, it could be as. As few as one phone call is what it takes to get it into motion, which is like, what a relief.
[18:58]
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Yes. Agreed. Thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate the encouragement and the support. I can rest easy knowing that this COSTA Rican holiday T.R. is going to happen and it's going to be blissful.
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I believe in you. Have so much fun. Thank you so much for calling in. This was such a treat, Ollie, and good luck with everything and good night. Enjoy some of that easy rest you were just talking about.
[19:23]
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Thank you. Good night.
[19:27]
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That was so nice. It was also, I don't think I've ever talked to someone that we've had on this show. Colin and I feel so aligned with them spiritually about this. And, like, this is talking to Holly about calling a travel agent and, like, finding someone to help because I'm, like, kind of help resistant at times. And so talking through that with her is making me want to. To seek out that kind of help myself for planning some travel. We, like, my 10th wedding anniversary is next spring and we've been talking for like, a year about, like, well, this is when we do a big trip. And like, you know, but I'm. I'm freelance. My wife is freelance. We could plan anytime to do a big trip. We just have to, like, do the planning and set aside the time. So, like, this was a great kick in my butt and I'm feeling really great. And I'm gonna say good night to you all right now, and I'm gonna say goodnight to my friends Stuart and Charlene. Out there who recommended me a travel agent, and I'm going to call him. Listeners hold me to account now. If you want to call in and be a part of an episode of the Nightly, we would love to hear from you. If there's something on your mind, email us or send a voice memo to thenightlyach co, the Nightlyatch co. Call us at 904-nightly. That's 904-644-4859. We're looking forward to hearing from you and have a great night, everybody. Sleep well.
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Sa.
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To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.

Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: The Nightly – "Travel Agents vs. Decision Fatigue"

Hosts: Josh Gondelman (with Matt Bragg and Greta Johnsen, not present in this episode)
Date: July 25, 2026
Main Theme:
This episode of The Nightly explores the paralysis people face when planning big trips, highlighting the mental barrier of "decision fatigue." Listener Holly calls in to share her struggle with planning a long-anticipated Costa Rica vacation, prompting a thoughtful and humorous conversation with host Josh about travel logistics, the value of expertise, and the roadblocks that keep us from turning dreams into reality.

Episode Overview

In this Sunday deep dive, Josh connects with Holly from the Bay Area, who candidly admits she and her husband have delayed an international trip for years due to an aversion to trip planning. Together, they explore why the sheer number of decisions—hotels, flights, itineraries—becomes overwhelming, and whether outsourcing to a travel agent could be the solution.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Burden of Decision Fatigue in Travel Planning

Holly’s Dilemma: Neither she nor her husband enjoy the logistical side of travel, despite loving the adventure itself. (05:00)
Both have relied on friends or family as “travel hosts” in the past, and struggle when starting with a “blank slate.”
Josh relates: “I’m a real go with the flow person... but it also isn’t a quality that, like, gets plane tickets booked or hotel reservations.” (06:26)

2. The Joys and Limits of Spontaneity

Holly describes her favorite previous trip to London—all thanks to a friend who planned everything. She values a schedule, but doesn’t want to generate it:

"I need that structure. I've noticed... but I do not like to create the structure." (07:49 - Holly)

3. The Allure of Costa Rica and the Infinite Scroll of Options

Holly is drawn to Costa Rica for its natural beauty and relaxed “pura vida” philosophy.
Decision paralysis is worsened by exposure to endless alternative destinations online:

“Everyone’s talking about Japan right now... and all these other places.” (11:48 - Holly)
“You see someone... on the Amalfi Coast of Italy, maybe that’s where I need to go.” (12:07 - Josh)

4. Should You Use A Travel Agent in 2026?

Holly wonders if travel agents are still a thing, or if she should try AI or online services instead.
Josh affirms the value of human expertise:

“There are still travel agents... and I think this would be so cool to have that experience.” (09:45 - Josh)
“They are experts... who’ve been there, stayed at this location. It’s great because it’s close to this spot, and you want to get in line early or make a reservation. I want someone who has lived it... to point me in the right direction.” (14:28 - Holly)

5. Cost Concerns and the Value of Delegation

Both admit to overestimating the cost of professional help, whether for trip planning or taxes:

“I always assume it costs an exorbitant, prohibitive amount of money.” (10:12 – Josh)
The alternative—never taking the trip—has its own opportunity cost:

“You’ve been saving money by not going on vacation so far.” (11:44 – Josh, jokingly)

6. The Psychological Block of "Breaking the Seal"

Both agree that simply choosing a destination and setting dates is often the hardest part.

“You have to, for lack of a more elegant term, break the seal.” (12:38 – Josh)

7. The “Human Touch” vs. AI Planning

AI can make sample itineraries, but can’t vouch for a place or intervene if things go wrong:

“They don’t have the... they’re not gonna call the place and make the reservations. And if something goes wrong... you can’t call ChatGPT and be like, ‘Hey, they say they don’t have a reservation,’ and ChatGPT will be like, ‘Whoops, I didn’t make it.’” (15:24 – Josh)

8. Final Motivation & Listener Accountability

Holly commits to finding a travel agent and setting dates, encouraged by the conversation.
Josh, inspired by Holly, reflects that he too avoids help and needs a push for his upcoming anniversary trip.

“Talking through that with her is making me want to seek out that kind of help myself for planning some travel.” (19:26 – Josh)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the importance of delegating:

“When someone is an expert and you can go to them for something, gosh, incredible.” (18:00 - Josh)
On why expertise can't be automated:

“Sure, [AI] can produce an itinerary for me, but I want the expertise of: ‘Hey, I’ve been there. I stayed at this location, it’s great because it’s close to this spot...’” (14:28 - Holly)
On decision paralysis:

“If you ask us to plan it with a blank slate, we’re like...” (05:24 - Holly)
(trails off, humorous pause capturing the exhaustion)
On the feeling after moving in to a new place:

“It’s such a relief to know where all our stuff is and have all my T-shirts in the drawer... and it’s really nice. And I’m in a great state of mind to talk to a listener caller tonight...” (03:31 - Josh)

Timestamps for Important Segments

[05:00] – Holly introduces her travel planning challenge and decision fatigue.
[07:49] – The thrill of structured trips organized by friends vs. the pain of self-planning.
[09:24] – The question: Do people still use travel agents?
[10:12] – Misconceptions about the cost of professional expertise.
[12:38] – The “break the seal” moment of committing to a trip.
[14:28] – Human expertise vs. AI in planning.
[16:54] – Holly feels accountable and ready to take action.
[19:10] – Josh reflects on the shared struggle and is inspired to seek travel planning help himself.

Episode Takeaways

Decision fatigue is real—especially for travel planning, even when you crave structure.
Outsourcing trip logistics to a travel agent may be more affordable and valuable than you think, offering expertise and real customer service – something algorithms and apps can’t provide.
Taking the first concrete step—contacting an expert or picking dates—can break years of paralysis.
Inspiration goes both ways: Listener and host encourage each other to move from talk to action.

Tone and Style

The conversation is friendly, honest, and gently comedic, reflecting mutual self-deprecation and a relatable sense of overwhelm. The episode is supportive and validating—reminding listeners they’re not alone in their inertia.

For listeners wrestling with trip-planning anxiety, this episode offers both practical advice and the empathetic nudge needed to get unstuck.

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Transcript88 lines

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Audio for sleep by hatch.
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Hello and good evening everyone. I'm Josh. Welcome to the nightly from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to rest. I am feeling so fortunate lately because my wife and I had a bunch of chaos happen at our old apartment. And that kind of tips that what happened was we lived somewhere and now we live somewhere different. And we were able to find a new place really smoothly, which was nice. And the big, big thing that's very exciting was like, we lived in the same cozy little spot for nine years and we had to move out on shortish notice, which was a little stressful. But we ended up in this new apartment with like, beautiful natural light. And like, the big complaint that we had in almost a decade at the place we used to live was that it just kind of felt like, dim a little bit, even on really nice days. And we always were like, oh, this is so comfy. And we, we love it here and we love the neighborhood, but like, if we ever move, this is the thing we want. And we have these beautiful windows, these giant windows, which you have not had for years and years. And it is just so wonderful to like. Also the other thing about these windows is that they are south and west facing, which means, like, in the morning there's a ton of sunlight, but it's not like, glaring. So if we want to sit and have coffee and like, look out, we can like see to Manhattan from our apartment in Brooklyn, New York, which is like, really thrilling. And we have a little terrace for having morning coffee on. And so we're like, so lucky and so grateful to have come out of this, like, true chaos that I don't want to stress you out by describing in too much detail, but we're on the other side of it and it's really nice and it makes me feel so relaxed going to bed at night because we've also. It took a couple days, but we are mostly out of the woods with boxes from the move, which is a real relief. You see the boxes and you get a little like, oh, where am I? Am I living? Like, I'm on the run from the law. But now that we've got our couch set up and my wife has these huge bookshelves and all of her books are set up. And so we're like, really at ease and enjoying the sunlight in the morning and the cozy, comfy vibes at night. And I just wanted to convey that at the beginning of the show because having a personal space that's set up and really the way you want it is such A relief. And I'm not a type A person. I'm like, type. I don't know, probably m like, way down the list. So stuff like that doesn't bother me a ton. But my wife Kwai offered to help. We had all these friends offering to help us move. And I said, do you need someone to help you put your books on the shelves? Do you need someone to help you put your books on the shelves? And she said, I'm too much of a Virgo for that. So she's a little type A and I'm a type Z. But even with, like, the way my brain works, it's such a relief to know where all our stuff is and, like, have all my T shirts in the drawer and all clothes hung up where we want them. And it's really nice. And I'm in, like, a great state of mind to talk to a listener caller tonight, I guess. Without any further ado, welcome to the Nightly Holly, thank you so much for being here.
[04:21]
A
Oh, thank you so much, Joss.
[04:23]
B
Thank you. It's such a pleasure. Where are you calling in from, Holly?
[04:27]
A
I'm calling in from the Bay Area. California. South Bay, to be specific.
[04:34]
B
I love that any place where, like, nature and city are really close together is, like, really special.
[04:43]
A
The ocean's not far away, which is also amazing.
[04:45]
B
Yeah.
[04:46]
A
Get there in 30 minutes, depending on where you are in the Bay Area. So it's pretty fantastic.
[04:51]
B
That's wonderful. And so, Holly, what have been your late night thoughts? What's been keeping you up at night? Or what have you been thinking about as you drift off to sleep?
[05:00]
A
Yeah. The thing that has been bugging me for a bit is that I am coming to terms with the fact that. That neither myself nor my hand are international travel planners. It has not sparked joy for us to figure out the logistics of a trip that both of us have been talking about for several years now, which I'm embarrassed to admit. And yeah, people who know me know that I have been saying, we want to go to Costa Rica. We want to go to Costa Rica. And just. But we are sort of stuck in this decision fatigue spot where he's not a planner and I'm not a planner. We are great travel buddies. Both of us have had the good fortune of wonderful family members and friends who are phenomenal planners and love to get into the details of where we're going and how we're getting there and what we're doing while we're there. And both he and I are like, sure, sign us up. Tell us what we owe you. We'll be there. We'll get up for the sunrise hike. But, you know, so we'll do that. We'll do the trip and we'll do. We'll go, you know, head first, diving right in. But if you ask us to plan it with a blank slate, we're like. And it's been like that for years, Josh. So that has been bugging me. I need to figure out how to, like, break through this, like, you know, speed bump when it comes to planning this trip.
[06:27]
B
Okay. I extremely relate to this because I am not a planner. I am like a true. I was kind of talking about this in the intro to tonight's chat of, like, I'm a real go the flow person. I'm, like, pretty adaptable. And so I think that is a good quality. But it also isn't a quality that, like, gets plane tickets booked or hotel reservations.
[06:50]
A
Right. That part.
[06:53]
B
Where are some of the places you've been with family and, like, on previous trips and what are the things you've most enjoyed doing?
[06:59]
A
Yeah, so we. Our last, like, big international trip was to London, and it was so fun, but a girlfriend of ours planned it great. And basically played travel host for us, which was fantastic.
[07:12]
B
Incredible.
[07:13]
A
Yeah. And, you know, we just did. It was a variety. We kind of did walking tours. She had a couple of spots and that she knew this is a great place to eat. This has a great view. This is a really cool market. I am a huge fan of Les Nadirab. So we went and saw Les Mis on the West End, and that was extremely memorable for me. So it was just a nice mixture of Some of it was planned, some of it was just very much like, let's just wander and see what we run into and discover. But I do well with having, like, a clear plan of like, we're getting up at this time or we have a reservation at this spot. I kind of. I need that structure. I've noticed.
[07:52]
B
Yeah, but you don't like to do it. You don't like to create this structure.
[07:56]
A
It is like, give me the option.
[07:58]
B
Could. Could not be more. Could not be more on the same page as you for this. I love an itinerary.
[08:06]
A
Right.
[08:06]
B
Hate to create an itinerary. And what are the. Like, what about Costa Rica has been on your list? Like, why. Why is that a place that's been so appealing for so long, even though you're like, God, I would love to go there, and I do not want to make the plans to go there at all?
[08:20]
A
Yeah, I You know, I have had several people that I know have gone and have raved about it and just said is, you know, I'm a big fan of nature and being outside and plants. Like, my home is filled with house plants. Like, I just love greenery. And so the foliage there, the butterflies, just the access to these beautif trails and waterfalls. So for me, the proximity to, you know, forest and jungle and also the coast and just, you know, I think they have, like, is it pura vida? Is there, like, country phrase? I haven't been. So I don't know for a fact, but, you know, just, like, good vibes, right? Yeah. It just seems like such a grounded, relaxing place to hang out, but also to explore, so.
[09:04]
B
Totally.
[09:05]
A
That's. That's. That's what appealed to me. And my. Also, my husband speaks Spanish and Great by proxy. I have, like, learned through, you know, with him. And so just being somewhere where we can feel like we can actually engage with the local culture is really appealing to me too.
[09:18]
B
For sure. Yeah. That sounds really awesome. This sounds like a great trip if. If you ever get around to getting it on the books.
[09:24]
A
Right.
[09:25]
B
Is. Is there a friend you can trick into planning this one?
[09:28]
A
Right. And I feel like that is what I need to do. You know, I've. I've been thinking, like, oh, we can do it on our own. We're going to figure this out. And that's really where I've been torn of, you know, do people still use travel agents? Like, is that a thing? I know, like, years ago that was a big deal. I don't know.
[09:44]
B
So they do.
[09:45]
A
Okay.
[09:45]
B
There are still travel agents, and I think this is, like, a real. I think this would be so cool to, like, have that experience. I also, like, I don't know what the price of a travel agent is, but my hunch is that it's the kind of service that you're. That, like, if. If you have a budget in mind for the trip, I. I bet you can do it without, like, exploding that budget. You know what I mean?
[10:13]
A
Yeah.
[10:13]
B
Like, I don't. Are you like this at all? If there's a thing I've never done before, had or had professionally done for me, I always assume it costs an exorbitant, prohibitive amount of money.
[10:25]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's. I think there's, like, the sticker, you know, price tag, fear to totally. What is this going to be?
[10:33]
B
Right, right, right, right. And, like, I remember I have someone that I pay to do my taxes now because I tour a lot and, like, I have all these different little jobs, and so it's kind of complicated, and it's annoying for me to do. So I pay someone. And the first time, I think it's gone up a little bit. But the first time I ever did it, it was because my wife and I had started dating, and I was like, oh, I'm really dreading doing my tax, and I've dragged my feet. And I had to apply for an extension. And she was like, go to my guy. And I was like, oh, but what does that cost? Like $5,000? And she's like, no, it's a $400. And I was like, oh, $400 is an amount of money I have to make this specific problem go away. I can't spend $400 on everything in my life, but on this, I certainly can.
[11:21]
A
Yeah, Such a good point.
[11:23]
B
And so I wonder if this is like, that, where it's like, oh, there's a fee here, but. But, like, it's not doubling the cost of our vacation, certainly.
[11:34]
A
And if it's actually making the vacation happen, then it's, you know, doing.
[11:38]
B
Then it's super worth it.
[11:40]
A
Right, Right. It's worth the investment. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I think that's because you have been
[11:45]
B
saving money by not going on vacation so far.
[11:48]
A
It's there, it's available. We just need to. Yeah. Make it happen. And I think the other part of it, too, is, you know, knowing that there's this budget set aside for us to go travel, then you kind of get into the. Gosh, everyone's talking about Japan right now and saying how wonderful it is to go to Japan, you know, and all these other places.
[12:07]
B
Yeah. You see someone on Instagram, like an old college friend or like a work acquaintance, you're like, wow, they're in the Amalfi coast of Italy. Maybe that's where I need to go.
[12:18]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That is for sure. What has also been happening is this sort of like, maybe. Maybe we go here instead. But, you know, and the thing is, you know, I need to remind myself, if we just go on this one trip, like, there you go. We figured it out. And now next year, we can make this an annual tradition.
[12:35]
B
Totally.
[12:36]
A
You know, I can go to all those other places, too.
[12:39]
B
You have to, for lack of a more elegant term, break the seal.
[12:43]
A
Mm, yes. Yeah. Push through. Make it happen. So is your wife the planner? Like, how do the two of you travel with.
[12:51]
B
Oh, yeah, she's much plannier than I am.
[12:53]
A
Okay.
[12:54]
B
And I've. I've Gotten better since we've been married, I've gotten better and. Cause we also kind of drag our feet sometimes on planning big things because we're both like, well, what if something comes up and we'll wanna be here? But that's, like, in my experience. I don't wanna say never happened, but it's like, it's not. You can't go through life, I think, not making plans in case something better happens at every turn.
[13:25]
A
Yeah, carpe diem. You just gotta go for it, especially
[13:27]
B
when it's something you're excited to do. My parents are planning a big trip for their 50th wedding anniversary, which is in a couple years. And they're, like, already so excited about it. And we're gonna go with them. And I'm going to recommend my friends. Just did a river cruise in Europe with one of their sets of parents, my friend Stuart and Charlene, who are married, and they brought Stuart's parents on a river CRU cruise. And they went through. They have a friend who's a travel agent who I've met and is wonderful. And they said that experience, specifically these folks. But the experience of working with a travel agent who is capable and thoughtful and a good listener and a creative planner is such a relief. And it's so nice because I think we've been so conditioned to not expect customer service, but those jobs that are customer service forward, people are really experts at it, and it's so soothing.
[14:29]
A
Yes. Yeah. And, you know, the reality is they're experts on the locations that they're recommending to you. Right. I mean, that's. That's been. You know, I've had people say, oh, just, you know, use AI to figure out your trip. Just plan it that way. And sure, that. That can produce an itinerary for me, but I want the expertise of, hey, I've been there, I've stayed at this location. It's great because it's close to this spot and you want to, you know, get in line earlier, make a reservation like I want. Somebody has lived it and walked it and tried it to point me in the right direction, too.
[15:01]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I think having that experience and that personal touch is so much better. I mean, to me, even better than classic using whatever websites people use to book stuff that I use all the time or my fear with using something like a chatbot or whatever is they don't. They don't have the. Like, they're not gonna call the place.
[15:24]
A
Right.
[15:25]
B
And make the reservations and. And, like, if something goes wrong, you can't, like, call ChatGPT and be like, hey, they say they don't have a reservation, and ChatGPT will be like, whoops, I didn't make it.
[15:36]
A
Right. Figure it out for me.
[15:38]
B
I don't know anything. Yeah, exactly.
[15:40]
A
So, like, that's such a good point, Josh.
[15:42]
B
Yeah.
[15:43]
A
Yeah. Having that advocate, I really think that
[15:46]
B
that human touch is, like, so helpful, especially when you're like, oh, I'm dealing with maybe a bunch of reservations too, because that's it. I get. Specifically, I'll. I'll do one part of it, and then I just get exhausted where it's like, okay, I booked the hotel and I booked the flights. What are we doing all day? I have no idea. And I don't want to think about it.
[16:09]
A
Yeah. Yes. And I think that. Yeah. Figuring out that balance of how much is relaxation and how much is, like, hit the ground running. Yeah, you gotta. Yeah. And that's where I think the travel agent can also advise. Right. And give better.
[16:22]
B
Totally. I. I think this is, like, such a good plan, and it's, like, certainly worth exploring. And I don't know, like, you. It sounds like we're very alike in terms of our, like, psychological makeup around travel and recreation. But it, like, takes a lot for me to jump that barrier from, like, I've never called a travel agent to, like, oh, I found one that I like, and this is amazing.
[16:47]
A
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I just. I need to make the call. And that part of this is, like, it's good accountability to talk to you about it. Right. Make it very public.
[16:55]
B
That's what I'm for.
[16:56]
A
I want to go on this trip.
[16:59]
B
The nightly is mostly about accountability. We're holding people to account on here. Yeah.
[17:04]
A
So appreciate this team.
[17:05]
B
Of course. So is this. So do you have, like. Do you have, like, dates in mind? Are you like, oh, this will be for the holidays, or is it just kind of. We'll figure it out. It's been a rolling thing so long that it's just kind of whenever.
[17:20]
A
Yeah, the latter. You nailed it. I think at one point I Googled, like, when's the best time to go and when is, like, storm season, you know?
[17:27]
B
Yep.
[17:28]
A
So I need to figure that out. Like, that's probably step one, is when is storm season? I don't want to go when there's, you know, hurricane potentially happening.
[17:36]
B
But, yeah, see, okay, now we're planning. Now we're playing it with gas here.
[17:40]
A
Yes. Narrow down the time and then. Yeah, commit. So I'm getting closer. This is. This conversation really has helped unlock some of the inhibition and just reminded me it's important and there are resources out there that can support me in making this happen.
[18:01]
B
Yeah, there's a whole industry and it's probably not as big as it once was, but, like, there are people to call. What a relief. Gosh, if I. Because I'm not a great delegator, but, like, the idea of when someone is an expert and you can go to them for something, gosh, incredible.
[18:21]
A
Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. Now I feel empowered to make this next move. Get in touch with a travel agent.
[18:27]
B
This is going to be huge.
[18:28]
A
Yes.
[18:29]
B
Well, call us. Feel free to call us back and let us know on the show. Like, how did that go? Did you. Did you get the dates on the books? Is it too far? Is our holiday season there? Is our holiday season there, rainy season, et cetera. But, like, yeah, let us know. I can't wait to hear how this shapes up because, like, this is going to be so exciting and, like, it could be as. As few as one phone call is what it takes to get it into motion, which is like, what a relief.
[18:58]
A
Yes. Agreed. Thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate the encouragement and the support. I can rest easy knowing that this COSTA Rican holiday T.R. is going to happen and it's going to be blissful.
[19:10]
B
I believe in you. Have so much fun. Thank you so much for calling in. This was such a treat, Ollie, and good luck with everything and good night. Enjoy some of that easy rest you were just talking about.
[19:23]
A
Thank you. Good night.
[19:27]
B
That was so nice. It was also, I don't think I've ever talked to someone that we've had on this show. Colin and I feel so aligned with them spiritually about this. And, like, this is talking to Holly about calling a travel agent and, like, finding someone to help because I'm, like, kind of help resistant at times. And so talking through that with her is making me want to. To seek out that kind of help myself for planning some travel. We, like, my 10th wedding anniversary is next spring and we've been talking for like, a year about, like, well, this is when we do a big trip. And like, you know, but I'm. I'm freelance. My wife is freelance. We could plan anytime to do a big trip. We just have to, like, do the planning and set aside the time. So, like, this was a great kick in my butt and I'm feeling really great. And I'm gonna say good night to you all right now, and I'm gonna say goodnight to my friends Stuart and Charlene. Out there who recommended me a travel agent, and I'm going to call him. Listeners hold me to account now. If you want to call in and be a part of an episode of the Nightly, we would love to hear from you. If there's something on your mind, email us or send a voice memo to thenightlyach co, the Nightlyatch co. Call us at 904-nightly. That's 904-644-4859. We're looking forward to hearing from you and have a great night, everybody. Sleep well.
[22:34]
A
Sa.
[24:25]
B
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