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Hello. You're about to drift into an episode of the Nightly a podcast designed to help you unwind and relax. For the full phone free immersive light experience, visit Hatch Co. Enjoy.
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Hey there. I'm Wills.
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And I'm Jim. Josh. Welcome to the Night Leaf from Hatch, where your late night thoughts go to rest. Wills, it is so nice to be back in the pillow fort with you.
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Amazing.
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Per usual. I had a question that I've been thinking about since the last time we spoke, which was, I know you moved into a new place pretty recently, and you mentioned you were, like, excited to get your furniture set up. And I know you really consider decor and, like, that your physical space. So, like, I just want to know how that's going. I feel like now's the time to ask.
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Now is the perfect time to ask. So I will say I moved in in November, which to me still feels very recent, but I understand it's been a while, and it's lovely in here. Like, I've made it nice. It's good. But I do feel like I'm trying to, like, catch a second wind. I feel like I moved in and I did a lot of decorating and stuff, and then I lost some momentum, and I want to, like, pick it back up to make it really cozy and nice. So I'm trying to use new seasonal energy, like the new springtime energy to propel myself. I. I did some stuff this week, and the things that I did this week are. Are as follows.
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Please.
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I put a trunk at the foot of my bed. I really need to, like, make my bedroom cozier. I feel like I focus a lot of energy on my living room. And now I'm trying to get into the bedroom situation. I have this dresser that I basically use as, like, a TV stand credenza that I feel extremely tired of. I really don't like it. Whenever I say that to other people, they're like, it's the most, like, normal thing in the world. I don't know why you hate it, but I just. I've. I have a resentment towards it that is completely outsized from what it actually looks like.
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You're. You're credenza.
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I'm credenza, for real. I feel like that happens with, like, interior stuff where it's, like, because you just see it so often that I'll become completely, like, sick and disgusted by, like, the most normal piece of furniture that I own. And so I basically. I've been at war trying to figure out how to, like, replace this credenza. I did one thing that helped a little bit, which is that this week, I replaced the knobs on it. I had these knobs on it that I had bought, like, last year before I moved. And I was, like, really didn't like them in the context of the living room. And so I replaced them. It's like a normal wooden credenza. And I replaced them with. I had these, like, mother of pearl knobs I replaced with brown ceramic knobs that match the credenza. Because I was like, it's just making too much of a statement. It's like, if I hate it, I want it to at least be, like, blending into the background.
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Sure.
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So I did that. And then near. Honestly, like, an hour ago, I found these. What I really want to replace it with is, like, I've decided kind of. I've got. I've decided a lot of different things, but this week, I decided I want to replace it with, like, low shelves or something like that, and then move the dresser into my bedroom. And so, like, literally an hour ago, I found these shelves on Facebook Marketplace. These, like, wood shelves that are not that low, but are more narrow, so it'll just be less, like, obtrusive, I guess. And I used, for the first time in my entire life, which I'm hoping it works. I'm very. I'm feeling very skeptical. I've used this application called lug. Do you know about this?
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I don't know about this.
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Okay. I mean, it's basically like, uber for furniture, I guess.
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Okay.
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And it seems like a handy tool in particular for someone in my position where I live in the city and I don't have a car. So I found these shelves for very cheap. They're like. I think I bought three of them for, like, 60 bucks altogether. These, like, wood shelves that are, like, kind of modular and that they'll. They'll all fit together. And then I downloaded this service, lug, and I'm paying people to go pick it up.
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Wow.
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And I feel scared. I feel. I think it'll be work. I think it'll work out. I feel a little bit scared because I'm like, I've never done this before, and it's not like I. I thought that maybe once I, like, put it all in, I would get, like, connected with the delivery people and be able to be in contact with them, which hasn't happened yet. But I'm just putting my trust in the universe. Okay. And I think bright and early tomorrow morning, the first thing I'll do is do some home Rearranging, but it's just a constant process. And I feel like I just spend so much time at home, too. I like work from home, obviously, that I just get so. I get a bit crazy about it because I'm, like, looking at everything and imagining how it could be better. I don't know if you feel that at all. Do you feel. How is your. What's your interior design story?
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I am. I, like, barely consider myself three dimensional.
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You're like, I'm flat Stanley. I don't own anything.
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I feel like a flat Stanley where it's like, if you could just fold me up and put me in an envelope and like.
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Yeah.
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And, like, slide the envelope under my bed to sleep at night, I would be totally fine. I don't have a great eye for decor, but I do collect, like, I love a framed small piece of art or, like, a poster. I finally put up two pieces of art in our bedroom, which, like, we've lived here for, like, eight and a half years by the time I put a single piece of art up in the bedroom. And it was one I got, as. What was the occasion, a Valentine's Day present for my wife, Maris. We had gone to see the band Rilo Kiley on her birthday last year, and I got a poster, and then I finally got it framed. I mean, and that was her Valentine's Day present. And that's up over our bed. And then across the room. Our neighbor Rose is like a. She's so good at everything. She's like a really talented actress, and she does a lot of activisty stuff, but she also paints. And I bought one of her paintings, and that's up now, too. And our. Our bedroom is a lot like, homier, because after almost nine years, I put up two pieces of art finally.
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It hasn't been nine years, but I also literally last week put up two pieces of art in my bedroom for the first time. And I was like, amazing. I don't even. I mean, the process of, like, buying and framing art is like, that could take a lifetime. I can't even get into it. It's like, I buy prints and then I have to obtain frames and the framing, like, frames are so expensive in a way that you just don't understand. It's crazy.
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It's one of those things too, where, like, you can order one from, like, Michael's or you can buy one from Michael's or wherever, like a regular craft store. And you're like, oh, this is like somewhere between 30 and $60. And that is it's not nothing, but it's like, oh, this is an art investment, so it costs some money. Or you could take it to a framing place. Like, $75,000.
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I can't even believe, like, you don't even. It's like, I've. I had this whole thing with my friend. I mean, I haven't gotten anything professionally framed because one time I went to go to the frame store, and the price they tell you will have your jaw on the absolute ground. Of course, as you're saying, it's like, they're literally like, okay, it's gonna be like, do you have a retirement fund? Like, what's going on? Like, we need your money because you're
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gonna need to empty that.
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You need to drain that if you
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want this Pulp Fiction poster frame to put up on your wall.
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If you want a 5x7 framed, you're gonna have to be doing a payment plan for now until infinity.
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We're gonna garnish your wages.
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They're like, just sign this contract. Don't worry. It'll. It'll all get sorted out. You'll have one piece of framed art. Um, my friend Hannah has had this thing that she wanted to get framed, and so she went and got it as, like, you know, a nice little present to herself. It's like maybe two feet by. It's like, what, 24 by 24 or something like that? Not that big. And she. She paid them, first of all, $400. I'll say it. She paid them $400. It comes back. It looks so bad. It was. It was like. So it's not even, like, matted. It's like. Like, it. You know how there's the mat where it's a frame within the frame. It's not that they had. They. They just put it on basically, like, matting paper, backing paper, but it's the. The piece isn't even completely adhered to the paper. It's lifted. And I was like, I don't think she has. But I. I keep saying to her, I'm like, you need to take that back in and have them fix it or get your money back. Because you spent $400 to have them basically, like, use, like, chewing gum to, like, adhere your photo to a piece of white paper and put it in a frame that probably cost $30. I was like, I just. It's unbelievable.
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I get the expense. If it's something that is like, oh, I'm getting my old athletic jersey framed. And so they have to do some things to like, make that look dimensional, you know what I mean? Like, you can't just like stick that in a thing. It gets all wrinkly. Or if you're like, oh, this is weird. A weird shape of something. You know, like I, I bought a piece of art that's like a non standard shape or circular or whatever, but when it's just like kind of a standard issue, like a dimension of frame that you could buy for $45.
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What's going on?
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Yeah. Why does this take two weeks? And. And, and the amount of money you would pay on like a used Toyota Corolla?
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It's so crazy. And especially I'm like, I even get it more. They're like making a custom mat for you. But I was like, girl, literally, like, like, glue stick this onto a piece of paper and charged you $400.
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Yeah.
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It's so crazy. And. But it is also one of those things where I'm like, I don't know how to do it. Okay. The thing with my friend Hannah that happened, that was crazy because I was like, well, that's what I would have. That's what I could have done. But when, in terms of like cutting a mat, I find the framing of it all to be one of those things that seems like you should be able to do it yourself. Unless you have, as you're saying, like a. A piece of art that is fit into the kind of like standard frame size or whatever. It seems like something you should be able to do yourself in terms of like cutting a mat to fit inside of a frame. But it's like, I've tried and I've. I'm like, I just think it's. I do think it's something that I'm either gonna have to make some concessions around or just leave to the professionals.
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I definitely think, like, when there's stuff like that, you go, oh, that's a skill I don't have. I. It probably takes people a bit of time to accomplish, you know, and like, they deserve to be paid for their labor. But then it's like, sometimes you take it, you're just like, oh, I wish I could just go to the nice place and get the nice frame that they have and just kind of like do it in front of them.
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I know, it's so crazy.
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And it would take four minutes.
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It really. I do have a lot of questions about the framing of it all. I'm like, how do you learn how to do that? What is like. I'm like, what are your guys's credentials and things that you've Done to get here to. Working in the same shop is something that I don't know the answer to.
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But wait, I have a friend who does that.
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You should ask.
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I should ask him, and you should
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ask him why it's so. Goddamn.
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That's what I mean. I'm not gonna ask him for favors. I'm just gonna be like, what's your deal, man?
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Because.
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Tell me, unravel.
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And they will have an answer. Like, that's one of those things where it's like, I could so imagine myself being, like, saying to someone who does it, being like, that's crazy. And then they're like, well, actually. And, like, completely breaking down. Breaking it all down and being like, so we don't even make money. I'm like, okay, my bad.
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But that feels like everything, right? We're like, why does. Why do airline tickets? Why are they always so expensive? And they're like, yada, yada, yada. They make 42 cents on each plane ticket they sell. It's like, oh, they should go into a different business.
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You know, the whole, like, when I have money, there will be signs. If you. If you've seen that meme, that is, like, certainly one of them for me. Because now I'm. I'm even looking at some of the art I have at my home, and I'm like, when I have money, there are these signs. One of them is framing. The other one that I say a lot is I. I have some tattoos I would get removed, but it's not urgent. It just will happen eventually.
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Oh, interesting.
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Do you have any.
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Do I have any tattoos that I
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would get or any. When you have money, there will be signs. Or maybe you. Maybe you have your signs.
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That's such a good question. Let me think. Because there definitely are. And it's also, I have some money. And there were signs, of course.
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I mean to say,
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I would say over the last decade, I've acquired a number of sweaters. That isn't immoral, but it is excessive. And same with sneakers. Sweaters and sneakers are like, the two. Like, oh, someone's doing well, I feel
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that, oh, I had a moment with a sweater in a store the other day that I actually let go due to price, and I am kind of having regrets around it. Maybe I'll circle back. Yeah, a nice sweater collection. You really can't. There's nothing better than it. I. I find part of it is.
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I do a lot of live events, and it is like. I feel like since 2021, 2022, when things kind of Ramped back up in terms of performance. There's just professional photographers everywhere.
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I know, don't even get me started.
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And so I feel like I always have to be like a little dressed up where I used to, I used to be a little more casual about things.
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Yeah, no, totally. I mean the, the photos they take of you on stage should be, I guess not even studied, just often burnt completely.
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Well, there's. I. I host a show, co host a show a couple Mondays a month. I really need to like be considerate of and mindful of like when I do laundry and like what, what sweaters are in my Monday night rotation.
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You have to do some pre planning, some meal prep, but for outfits, I suppose that's right. Yeah, it is. Yeah. The. It's a constant. And I was just, I mean, it's a constant question of what do I wear to a show. And I was just saying to someone because we were having discussion about like, oh my God, sometimes the weather gets warmer and you're like, now I have to wear shorts. And there's kind of the indignity of having to wear shorts. That's part of being a human. And I was like, well, imagine having to wear them while doing stand up. Yeah, that's what I really get. I'm like, I should not be up here in shorts. It's like completely not right.
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Because it's also like I'm not the kind of person who can get away with shorts at any kind of, like any kind of function that's beyond like Barbie, you know what I mean? I will look like a very large little boy. Like I look like I should be holding like a big lollipop in my hand.
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They're like, you really? Yeah. You're really dressed down today.
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Yeah, I have kind of like an Augustus Gloop vibe when I'm wearing shorts.
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I mean, I feel this. I just feel like shorts are so silly, but they're like a part of life that is happens every year and I feel so shocked by it every single year.
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Do you know, I know some people that never ever wear shorts, but they
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must have a body temperature that I don't have because I can do pants.
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Like if I'm going to be mostly inside. Right. I can do pants throughout the summer. If I'm just like, oh, I walk to the subway, I walk to the, you know, a friend's apartment or a show on the other side. I don't mind that. But if I'm going to be like out at a park or something.
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No, that's Crazy.
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I have friends that are, like, philosophically anti shorts. And I'm like, how can you do that to your knees and shins?
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I. And I understand it theoretically. I just practically. It's not possible. For me, it just gets. I get to be too warm. But maybe I don't have. Maybe I need, like a linen pant or something. I don't know.
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That would be cool. I do think I could expand my wardrobe and maybe we could both do that this summer into clothes that would feel more appropriate. Like on a boat.
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Yeah. Yeah. And this is. We're get. We're coming back to when I have money. There will be signs. Yeah.
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We're just. You and I both constantly wearing, like, yacht Leisure.
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I'm wearing a full linen suit everywhere. I'm like, you guys, I've always been doing this.
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It's just like, billowing in the breeze. You're like, are you about to be in an Enrique Iglesias music video?
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Why, yes.
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That is my sense of style.
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That's my Iglesias, my new sense of style.
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2026 Linden suits.
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Yes, exactly. Exactly. I think it's. I think it'll be good. I think people will come to respect us more. Did you see that guy who did, like, I tried wearing a suit for a week and saw how it went? He wrote an article that was like, I tried wearing a suit for a week to see, like, how it affected basically, like, his productivity or whatever. And he said that it was. It completely revolutionized his raw activity and made him way more productive because he was like, if I'm in the suit. If I'm in the suit, I gotta. I gotta get stuff done, which I. I completely see that it makes sense to me.
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I don't think that would work on me.
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You don't think so?
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I like wearing a suit. I think it's a good look. And I like to dress up for an event. But I also think I'm at my most productive when I'm comfortable. And I like to kind of kick back in a chair to type or like, you know, I'm not the kind of person who is like, oh, when I am dressed well, I'm ready to do everything. I'm like, no, my range of motion is limited. I'm like, constantly thinking, like, I'm wearing a suit right now.
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But I do wonder if the suit. Something about being in a suit. And this is. I haven't really worn a suit, so I guess ever. Is that true? So maybe I'm completely projecting, but I feel like then it. Something about the energy of the suit transcends the discomfort because it would be. I just. I do get so, like, stuck kind of like laying around or on my phone or whatever. And I wonder if I would feel completely, completely ridiculous doing those things in a suit.
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Right? Like, you're not gonna, like, sit under the COVID scrolling. If you're in a suit. That makes. That makes total sense.
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You can't sit, like, on your couch for longer than, like, 30 minutes in a suit. I feel like. Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah, totally. No, I know exactly what you mean. So I do think there is something to it in terms of, like, it gets you up and out. You know what I mean? Like, you're not lounging if you're in a suit. Um, and I'm also not a person who's like, all clothes should just be sweatpants.
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No, no, but I get it.
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But I do like sweatpants. And like, when I'm at home, I know. I know a few people that had a lot of great results from being like, oh, even when I'm working from home, I, like, put on a full set of clothes as if I were going out to work for the day. And I'm just like, oh, I don't do that at all. I. I want to have clothes that make me feel comfortable.
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When I'm work from couch, I particularly need to be in, like, a pair of comfortable pants. And I've been trying to. I've been trying. And I ha. I bought one pair, which has been nice. I've been trying to find comfortable pants that aren't just sweatpants because it does. I do feel like it. It is a little bit. They're a negativity seeps in when I've spent a certain amount of hours in my home during the day in sweats, but I'm like, I don't want to be in my home. And also it's like, now we're. Which we can't even. It's a whole other can of worms. But the indoor outdoor pants of it all. It's like, I don't want to be in my apartment in jeans or in pants that I've been wearing outside. So I've been trying to. I've been trying to find some athleisure. I guess.
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I do think sometimes I'll put on a nicer shirt, like, business on top, party on the bottom, which I feel like, you know, like, flannel shirt, sweatpants. Feels like zoom.
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Formal. Totally. No, I completely agree. And sometimes I'm like, well, these are my nice sweatshirts.
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It is nice to be comfy, and I'm feeling pretty comfy now in the pillow fort. So I think I'm gonna turn in.
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I think I'm gonna do the same. I'm in my huge flowing palazzo pants and I'm ready to hit the hay. So good night, everyone.
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Good night, Wells. Sa. Sa. Sam
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foreign.
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To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.
Date: May 1, 2026
Hosts: Wils Pelton & Josh Gondelman
Producer: Hatch Podcasts
This episode of The Nightly explores the comforting, late-night topic of home decor—the ongoing quest to make a space feel like home, and the humorous, sometimes exasperating hurdles along the way. Wils and Josh share their personal experiences with decorating, the conundrums of framing art, the subtle signs of “having made it,” and the daily uniform that comes with working and living at home. Their conversation gently wanders through relatable anxieties, mishaps, and little victories, making this a quintessential cozy listen for winding down.
Sweater Regret & Outfit Planning ([13:27 - 14:38]):
Shorts Reluctance & Summer Dressing ([14:55 - 16:32]):
Suits: Power Dressing… or Not? ([17:09 - 18:59]):
Work-From-Home Uniforms & “Indoor/Outdoor Pants” ([19:15 - 20:32]):
| Timestamp | Topic/Beat | |--------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:43 | Settling into a new home and decor fatigue | | 01:43 | Bedroom updates; furniture stories | | 03:01-04:10 | Buying shelves; using “Lug”; furniture logistics | | 05:16 | Hanging art: the rare triumph | | 06:52-10:53 | The trials and jokes of custom framing | | 12:27 | “When I have money, there will be signs” meme | | 13:09 | Sweaters and sneakers as subtle status symbols | | 14:09 | Being photographed at shows and outfit rotation | | 15:10 | Shorts style anxiety: “large little boy” energy | | 16:32 | Aspiring to “yacht leisure” and linen summer fits | | 17:09 | Suits and the productivity myth | | 19:14-20:32 | Work-from-home clothes; “indoor/outdoor pants” dilemma | | 20:38 | Ready for bed—“turning in,” bedtime signoff |
The episode is warm, lightly self-deprecating, and unhurried—ideal for late-night listening. The hosts navigate everyday anxieties and aspirations with a gentle wit, revealing universal truths about comfort, home, and the endless little projects that fill our lives.
Recommended for:
Anyone in search of a soothing, funny, and quietly relatable podcast to ease into sleep, especially those who’ve ever agonized over furniture, frames, or just what to wear to work (from the couch).