Nikki Bella (2:44)

No, I completely agree. I've been wanting to do this and to speak with an expert because I see so many things on social media, kind of on the news, but more just reading different memes, watching reels, seeing people's posts. And I'm just hearing so many different things about AI, especially that it's not eco friendly. And so then I'm like, wait, this is destroying our planet? And I just want to dive in and, and understand it more and understand the pros and the cons and how to use it in a productive way or in a way where it's, yes, bettering me as an entrepreneur or wherever it else it fits into my life, but that I'm also still being a good human being to Mother Nature and on this planet. And I think we all have a lot of questions. I feel like AI came up really fast and has taken over a lot and we're just told to download these apps with no repercussions or knowing nothing. So, like, I mean, I'm a Chat GPT user. I use Chat GPT. I've used it for things, but I never think about one, where's my information going for sure? Two, what am I opening up into my life and on my phone? And then three, how much water am I using every time I ask it a question? Now, I don't use it a lot, I've only used it a few times, but what am I doing to the environment?

Brie Bella (4:07)

No, I agree. And I think like everyone else, when it first came out, everyone was like, this is a really great business tool. And for some reason my brain couldn't comprehend it at first. I didn't. I'm like, wait, what? And I, I think like a lot of people at first I'm like, AI, Is it a robot? And when I was in Bentonville, I got to see John Door speak. And so he's a huge venture capitalist, he's an investor. I mean, he's been connected to Steve Jobs. I mean, so many different things. But he was saying in his, like, I went to his speaking event and he was like talking like, if you do not use AI properly, it is dangerous. And I'm thinking, dangerous? Like, what do you mean? It's scary. Yeah. But then I kind of felt like after that weekend, oh, I'll go do more research and see. But I'm just someone who doesn't really use AI in my life. But. But it is funny because I'll hear people make jokes like, oh, ChatGPT got me through college or this or that. And where I'm excited to talk to our guest today is at what, what point do you stop relying heavy on AI giving you the answers and you actually need to figure them out for yourselves? Like, where is it an advantage and where is it a disadvantage? Because I know, like, coming from my era, and I know I sound like an old folk in a way, but we didn't have all these things, these, all these stuff that, these tools that people have at their fingertips, but I do think it made us stronger.

Nikki Bella (5:38)

It.

Brie Bella (5:39)

It made us work harder. I do see and, and I'm not just saying this, I do see all around the different, you know, generations in the work ethic. And at some point we do need to know survival skills. I mean, how many times has there been power outages and if your phone's not even charged, you're screwed. So that means you can't go chat GPT if your phone's dead or you can't go. So there's times where I'm thinking to myself, where, where is this going? And like, is it healthy? Or at the. Is this just once again, a, a convenience for us that is not only I feel like sometimes damaging our mental abilities, but also the planet.

Nikki Bella (6:23)

Well, and how many jobs is it taking away from actual human beings is what I'm curious about as well. What I love about our generation is that if technology was to go away, we would still know how to live, we would still know how to make money, we would still know how to get from A to Z. There'd be no hesitation or stress in that way. And I feel bad with the generations behind us, they have relied heavily on the Internet. Now think of this new generation on AI. Like, think of their survival skills. You know, AI can't give you that. But I agree with you. And, and AI has been a huge reason why I rarely post Mateo. Now I get, I already have stuff out there of him and I post them every now and then. And I even ask his dad a lot, like, please just like, don't post him as much. But because of AI that you see all that stuff with children, that scares me how they could just take our child's image and do all those things with it to trick us or to. Right, do whatever. Like, I hate that for sure. That stuff is like so scary to me. And they could do that with ours, right? I mean, it's crazy.

Brie Bella (7:32)

All the.

Nikki Bella (7:33)

I'm like, wait, I didn't do that. And then I look closely, I Go. Oh, my God. That's an AI image of myself that I get tagged in.

Brie Bella (7:38)

It's. It is. I feel like there. There needs to be stronger laws with.

Nikki Bella (7:42)

A lot of it, but a lot of restrictions.

Brie Bella (7:44)

Yeah, I. But I also am like.

Nikki Bella (7:46)

But then there's a lot of great things. But I. I have to say, it's given me great ideas for business. When I was doing my Oscar match, I asked it. Now, we ended up not using these moves, but I was just curious, like, hey, if you were to take Nikki Bella and you have Asuka, what are some good transitions into these? I was like, writing false finishes and doing this. Different spots. It came up with great ideas.

Brie Bella (8:11)

Yeah, but see, this is where I get nervous of, like, it's becoming. It's taken away of, like, people's not using that, but like, natural. Like us.

Nikki Bella (8:24)

Right.

Brie Bella (8:24)

Sitting and having to be bored and not over stimulated and actually think and get creative.

Nikki Bella (8:30)

Well, so that's why I didn't even end up. You like pitching it. Because I'm like, I'm not gonna tell my producer, like, oh, hey, so Chat. GBT gave me this idea. I was like, you know, I'm not even gonna throw those ideas out there. And I haven't done. Because I felt the same. There's nothing like when we know a moment and we feel it and we know our own story of what we can do. But I'm not gonna lie, it gave me great ideas. It gave me incredible transitions. And it's also crazy where they know where to get things from. Like, they perfectly knew who fearless Nikki is, her past journey, where she is now, and who Oscar is and how this would be an epic moment.

Brie Bella (9:07)

Yeah, I mean.

Nikki Bella (9:07)

I mean. And how does it do it that fast?

Brie Bella (9:09)

Well, that's the thing is these supposedly. These generators are working so hard in these fac, and they're using a lot of water to cool them down. And that's why you're starting to see the environmental impact. And that's why I'm excited to talk to our expert today, because I. I'm very interested in that part. And I also feel like, you know, I was. When I was in Arizona and we were headed out to the casino, I passed this, like, huge warehouse style building. I'm like, oh, what is that? And they're like, oh, that's like, where AI like, monitors at or whatever. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. This look right here cannot take over the world.

Nikki Bella (9:46)

What did it look like?

Brie Bella (9:47)

Just like a very big box. Square, like, but humongous. Like, there's no beauty to it. There's no not. And I go, which one? Like, not live in this dimension. We can't forget that we're like human actions and human feel in touch. We can't, like, get lost in technology. We just can't.

Nikki Bella (10:07)

I mean, I feel like, you know when they say it's the end of human race, like you can't help it, like, kind of not believe it. I don't know. I don't know. But it is crazy when you drive through San Francisco and like, all the billboards are all different AI companies.

Brie Bella (10:21)

Everyone's a.

Nikki Bella (10:22)

Every time I drive from Napa to San Francisco to the airport, you know, you drive right through the city off Bay Bridge, and you're like, oh, wow. And actually, in one of my recent flights, I sat next to someone who started an AI company. She was brilliant. She actually gave me incredible advice about parenting and all these different things. Our wine, like, I had in it was on my way to Milwaukee when I had to stop through Salt Lake City, and she was actually headed to a convention with women entrepreneurs, like, top entrepreneurs. And she was incredible. But it is crazy, me, when you drive through San Francisco and I'm like, whoa, there's. I didn't even realize there was so many AI companies. I mean, I'll admit in the very beginning, I just thought AI was like one thing, like its own thing.

Brie Bella (11:10)

Right, Too.

Nikki Bella (11:11)

I didn't realize, like, oh, wait, everyone can have their own AI or start their own AI company.

Brie Bella (11:17)

X Games, they try to do this one AI for one of the competitions, but they, like, created it, like, to measure and. Yeah, you know, it was called, like, Owl, I think.

Nikki Bella (11:25)

Oh, that's weird.

Brie Bella (11:26)

But, like, it's so. It's interesting. Everyone does have their own. But this is my thing. Do you think, like, if you're not keeping up with AI, you're going to have FOMO or Jomo.

Nikki Bella (11:38)

Jomo.

Brie Bella (11:38)

Joy missing out, right?

Nikki Bella (11:40)

Look how a lot of things are nowadays really have major gemo. I don't know if it's being in my 40s. I don't know what it is, but I am.

Brie Bella (11:50)

I know what it is. Over stimulation. You do not want to be over stimulated.

Nikki Bella (11:53)

I don't want to be over stimulated. And I love breathing fresh air and I like eating good food that I know is, like, not killing me. And I just. I want simple things and I want to see my son be raised in this incredible man. And I want to do little things for anti aging. But I'm also really content in Aging and like, you know, one day I would love what how people will talk about their husbands on reels. Hopefully I will share that with someone. But I truly am more in the space now of Jomo than FOMO because like I look at like festivals or this or that, I don't miss out on any of that. It is really weird how like protective of my energy, my surroundings, I'm really just, I enjoy, I'm so happy in life and I really enjoy my, my group, my tribe, my little life here. Napa.

Brie Bella (12:47)

The greatest feeling you can have is being satisfied. Because I feel like we're in a place right now where we just want better, better, better, more, more, more. And we're using natural resources for all of it and thinking about the consequence of it.

Nikki Bella (13:04)

You know what I would love at one point and I, I'll never have this one point, but you might maybe.

Brie Bella (13:11)

Can'T wait to hear it.

Nikki Bella (13:12)

But, but to ask some of the super wealthy and powerful people, like when, when is it?

Brie Bella (13:19)

Yeah.

Nikki Bella (13:20)

And do you ever stop to think like how you're affecting the environment or what you're doing for like the future generations? I would just love to hear what they say, like yeah. And I don't give a or oh well that, you know what I mean? I would just kind of like love to know is there a moment where like the human in you and your heart, you're just like, man, like maybe this is enough or this maybe wasn't good or, or nothing. I don't know. I wouldn't be curious to know.

Brie Bella (13:51)

I would be curious. I do think, yeah, I'd be curious. I, I, yeah. If you're tired of hydration products loaded with sugar and junk. Element is for you.

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Nikki Bella (14:51)

Right.

Brie Bella (14:52)

And I always put another packet in and I sip it all day long and it's not blank, boring water. It has a little fun and it's yummy.

Nikki Bella (15:00)

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Brie Bella (15:16)

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Nikki Bella (17:01)

Less@Wayfair.Com that's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair every style, every home. But I'm excited for us to bring on our guest. As you all can tell, Bri and I have a lot of questions. I even feel like we're asking each other questions and we don't know the answers to that.

Brie Bella (17:23)

And we have mixed feelings.

Nikki Bella (17:24)

And we have mixed feelings. And that's why we are so excited to welcome Today's guest, Eddie Pinto. So, Eddie is head of product at Plan Source, where he's focused on bringing AI into everyday tools that millions of people use at work. He has more than 20 years in HR tech and has been featured in outlets like Morning Brew and HR Executive. That's amazing.

Brie Bella (17:45)

Yeah.

Nikki Bella (17:45)

Eddie's passion is making AI simple, useful and human. Very interesting. Yeah. He brings a real perspective on how it shows up in daily life, from family life to the future of work.

Brie Bella (17:58)

Eddie, welcome to the Nikki and Brie Show.

Nikki Bella (18:02)

Yes.

Brie Bella (18:03)

We are so excited to have you on today.

Eddie Pinto (18:05)

Hey, I'm super stoked to be here too.

Brie Bella (18:07)

Okay, So I feel like we, we just gotta get.

Nikki Bella (18:10)

Get into it because we have so many questions and then we start to ask each other and we're like, why are we even asking each other? We don'.

Brie Bella (18:17)

Know.

Nikki Bella (18:17)

And a lot of our listeners have sent in questions because I feel like so many of us think we understand AI and then we start to ask these questions. We're like, wait, we don't understand it at all. We know that it could be great, but then we hear these other things. So it's like, let's ask an AI expert.

Brie Bella (18:33)

Yeah. And you know, it's interesting, Eddie, because I feel like a lot of times we hear AI is a great business tool, but if it's not used properly, it can be dangerous. And every time I hear that, I think to myself, dangerous? Like what does that mean? And so can you clear it up for us? When someone says that, what do they truly mean?

Eddie Pinto (18:53)

Yeah, there's an interesting kind of, you know, labeling of the term AI if I start from the top. You know, it's sometimes marketing kind of leads with new technologies. And so I think fundamentally, if we start with an understanding of just broadly speaking, what is AI, in a lot of ways it's inescapable in our day to day lives. And so it's good to know kind of where is it being used and how is it being used. So I like to think of AI as a spectrum, and in that spectrum there's different risks with each of those different types of AI. So on the very left of the spectrum, you've got things like your TikTok algorithm, your Netflix homepage, where AI is just feeding you content, it's subtly nudging you towards something. Now, the risk there is, do you want to have your brain filled with things that somebody else has decided your brain needs to be filled with? Now, for the most part, Netflix algorithm might be innocuous. It's intended to show you things that you would like. TikTok algorithm, same thing. It's not being designed to be malicious to the best of anyone's knowledge. But the risk there is, do you really want to have your time consumed watching content that is just fed by an algorithm? And so we focus on what do we do about that risk? Like how do we actually kind of get away from that? You know, I've got a friend who will not open up TikTok and let that first video on their for you page play. They'll click over to the followers page and they only watch videos from the people that they're following. That's taking control. It's not letting AI control your eyeballs and your mind share. It's actually kind of taking control back. So different people have different levels of control that they want to have with something like that, but it's really up to you. Do you want to have the algorithm be the basis for what you're doing with your evenings? So that's like on the left end of the spectrum. In the middle of the spectrum is AI as a feature within a broader service or within a broader product. And so that's everything from your Tesla full self driving, where if you pull down on the stock, it's going to drive for you, but you don't need to actually have it drive for you. It works as a perfectly good car without having full self driving mode. And so what is your level of comfort with full self driving? How comfortable are you with if it messes up even one in a thousand times like that might be a fatal accident? That's the type of risk there. And so I personally have full self driving on my wife's car. She uses it all the time. She's a big believer in it, 100% says it's amazing. I last used it three years ago. It was the most harrowing thing I did because the whole time I was there I was just like, no, turn, turn now, turn now. And so I just need to be in control a little more. And so for me that's something I don't want to do. And so that's another place where you kind of decide if you have a product that you have that has AI features, do you want to use those features or not? What is your own comfort level? And that may not be just a function of the AI itself, but it may be just how comfortable you feel having control over.

Brie Bella (22:20)

I mean, I have to like, for me, I feel like that I didn't even actually kind of think of it that you could Take your own control.

Nikki Bella (22:27)

Right. Well, and then that we're also already surrounded by so much AI, whether it's our choice or not. So I'm someone who streams on platforms. I didn't realize like it's already, that homepage is like pretty much AI generated and like leading me a certain way or with social media it's. I always thought it was just like going to chat GBT and asking it questions. I didn't realize like how much it lives around us. Or even I have a, A, an electric car and it has like some of those features. So that's crazy to me that I just didn't realize like how much it lives around us. And one thing I've noticed a lot as of late too and I don't know if this comes from surroundings that we don't even realize, but I get a lot of text messages about surveys or jobs or just really random things and I'm like, where are they? Where is this coming from? Like, what did I get on that? Like I'm getting fed all these things just straight to my phone without accepting terms and yeah, because sometimes I feel.

Brie Bella (23:29)

Like, you know, say you're having a conversation with someone, you talk about, oh, I need to get my kids shoes. And next time you're having ads of kids shoes pop up, right?

Eddie Pinto (23:36)

Yeah, yeah. There's, you know, this is interesting kind of psychological principle of where you, you know, like we make those connections. Right. Like I had just had this conversation and, and now I'm getting served up this ad. People in the industry who you talk to about that they would swear up and down that they're not listening. Your phone is not a bugging device. It's not fully listening to you all day long. But what it's doing is it's aware of your search history, it's aware of what other people around you in your network are doing. And it's using that to say if somebody else has this type of suitcase, then you know, they like that suitcase because they gave it a five star review online or they spent $800 on a suitcase. They're going to start talking about it because they need to justify having made that purchase. So they're going to talk to their friends about it. So now people in their network start to see ads for the suitcase. It's just a coincidence that that conversation has happened. That's what people on the inside would tell you in the ad industry. I believe them. I don't think my phone is listening to me, but I know people who will not trust it. Because it's just so uncanny that the ads that they see are exactly what they're seeing or they're talking to their friends about.

Nikki Bella (24:58)

Wow. Well, that's kind of good to know because I always thought that I'm like, they're listening, and that's how we get these. Well, I have a question for you. With your expertise, what would you say is a simple way of using AI that can, like, make our lives better? Like, is there specific gaps? Or what would be your suggestions?

Eddie Pinto (25:17)

Yeah, I've got a few examples of where I see people who are just starting out, just kind of thinking about, you know, the. The audience that we have. There's people at all levels of AI proficiency. There's folks who probably haven't used something like ChatGPT, and there's also folks who kind of use it every day. And so starting from the, you know, very baseline, somebody who hasn't used one of these AI applications like ChatGPT or like Gemini, just downloading that to your phone and the next time you want to do a Google search for something, try ChatGPT or try Gemini instead. And just the fact that you get answers there, they're cited. It's kind of summarizing what you would have seen in a web search where you'd have to click into each of those links on the homepage. Let's say you're researching something. You're not sure which fighter in Dubai or whatever it is. Wouldn't you rather just be able to. I like to think of it as talking to a friend who can kind of summarize stuff for you. Super simple. You can actually tell it, explain it to me like I'm five, and it won't use really complex words. It'll try and make it really simple without talking down to you, and then it'll provide you with links to actual sources. And so as opposed to having to go and read different articles, you can basically tell it to summarize for you what would take an hour. Now you get to read in probably a minute or two.

Nikki Bella (26:47)

Yeah, no, see, that's amaz. I do. I have Chat GPT and not only have I used it in my companies, but I have the. Recently I had a health question and I was like, wait, I should ask chat. So I went and asked, and it was crazy what it gave me and how to. And certain remedies, and it worked. I wish I could remember exactly what. I'm sure I could ask it because I always tell it to save things, but I was like, oh, my gosh, why am I not doing this more for like health questions either about my son or myself?

Brie Bella (27:19)

And is there any type of flaw where it can give you misinformation or is it pretty much. And I don't know, I never read the small print, so maybe it says that in there, but because I feel like people are very much hanging on to every single information they get from it.

Eddie Pinto (27:35)

Yeah. You know what's interesting is the AI models have. The companies behind the AI models have been working really hard to stop what used to be more prevalent around hallucinations, as they were called, where the AI models are trained to never say I don't know. And so they will overconfidently just give you an answer that may not actually be 100% true. And so a lot of what you see now is that when it's giving you an answer, it's giving you links and citations to the sources. And so I always say click on some of those, just make sure that it's summarizing accurately. But for the most part, that issue is starting to kind of be less and less prevalent to where I myself, unless it just doesn't sound right, I'm not going to double check everything. I think there's a higher bar now. I think it also goes back to just what is the ask that I have and what's the level of risk that I have around it. Some of the other examples of kind of use cases, if we go down kind of how, how to think about, you know, if you're a user of chat GPT, you know, like one interesting thing that I saw was I for years have thought that I have a diamond shaped face. Someone told me I have a diamond shaped face.

Brie Bella (28:53)

I don't know what that means.

Eddie Pinto (28:54)

It was cool. And I was like, you know what?

Nikki Bella (28:56)

That is cool.

Eddie Pinto (28:58)

Yeah. And so anytime I go to one of those sunglass websites and they ask for your face shape or whatever and they, they recommend sunglasses, I'm like, diamond. I took a selfie, I put it in a chat GPT. It says you've got an oval face. First of all, I was, you know, not very happy about that. Oval doesn't sound as cool, but I actually found something.

Nikki Bella (29:18)

I think I'm an oval, if that makes you feel better.

Brie Bella (29:22)

I think so.

Eddie Pinto (29:25)

From there my, my wife was like, yeah, you don't know about the photo thing? I was like, no. She was like, well, take a photo of yourself in natural light and ask for a skincare routine. Now my skincare routine used to be just, you know, wake up in the morning and splash some water on my face and I felt like that was good enough. But I did do the thing. It gave me a lot of steps. I decided not to take any of those steps because I like my own face. But it's. It seemed like it had a lot there and my wife swears by it. So as you kind of go down that path, I think there's like, you know, more and more you can do with it. Once you realize the camera unlock that that provides you.

Brie Bella (30:07)

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Brie Bella (30:38)

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Nikki Bella (31:09)

Well and it's truly a game changer. I know the days that I don't have element. It makes me feel better. The hydration's for real and you can tell it's healthy and it doesn't have the sugar and what else I love about it. For all of us who travel a lot, it's easy to take on the road 100%.

Brie Bella (31:25)

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Well girl, it's because dinner dread is real.

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Oh my gosh, the idea of Cooking a big meal overwhelming. And you also also don't feel like waiting an hour for delivery.

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Nikki Bella (32:33)

Oh, my gosh, Eddie, you know, that's exactly what I'm going to do now. When we get off, I'm going to go in daylight, I'm going to take a photo. I've never thought of that to be like, what, like help a girl with anti age and like, what. What would you suggest as products?

Brie Bella (32:48)

Yeah, but do you have any fears at all that we're moving so fast with technology that to have so many of our questions answered so quickly on these apps, like, do you at all think, like when you see all of us in our generations and how we grew up, like, you know, you had to work really hard to find an answer to a question, or we had to look at 17 different resources to get that one conclusion. Like, is there any fear that you have that we're going to lose that technique?

Eddie Pinto (33:16)

I think that, yeah, I, I face this challenge every day with my daughter. She's 12 and she's at that age where she's figured out that she can just take a photo of her homework and it can, you know, chat can give her the answer. And so what, what we've been really focused on in kind of making sure that she learns how to think is that we'll tell her when she, it's, it's fine to use chat to get your homework help. Oftentimes it's better than asking dad and him trying to remember what he did in school 40 years ago. So, you know, it's probably going to be a more reliable answer too. But, you know, that's probably not the best outcome, like, to have all your questions answered. So I think right in line with what you were talking about, the risk here is you lose the ability to think, you lose the ability to have those questions that you are able to kind of logically follow a train of thought and get the answers to. And so, so we've given her one rule with AI use is don't just ask for the answer. Ask for hints. It's something that Googling we learned is called A Socratic method where you tell ChatGPT only to tell you answers using the Socratic method. So it basically asks you questions like Socrates would have to help you get to the answers. And so you take a photo of the homework question you need need help with, and you say, use the Socratic method to help me understand how to solve this. And it won't give you the answer right away. It won't say, say, you know, this is the math answer. It'll tell you, well, think about this. And you say, well, I don't understand that. Then it takes a step back and kind of explains it to you. And so using that method, what we found is, I tell you what, it's a lot better than me, who for 40 years has not really thought about that math problem. Trying to be like, I don't know, kiddo, just, you know, try it this way. So ye.

Nikki Bella (35:22)

Yeah, no, I love that because at first when you were explaining, I'm like, wait, okay, AIs made some things easier, but now it sounds like it's made parenting harder. But now when you explain that method, I'm like, actually, wait, that might save some people money on tutors. Or just like you said, even my son, who's obsessed with the planets and obsessed with countries and world flags. There'll be some things they asked me and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm quickly trying to Google because I'm like, shoot, which one is it? And is Pluto still planet or what? What? You know, like, I'm just. It is crazy how you. Of course we forget things over time and you want to teach your kids the correct things. But I really enjoy that method. And, you know, I wanted to ask this and, and we got onto this topic, but when we were talking about chat in your industry, how does it make you feel when people are starting to use chat gbt, where they're just. They're bored and they're. They want to have photo, like, photos, like, oh, here's me and this person. I just want to see what that looks like or is just using it for nonsense, like for fun, for leisure. But they're just like, bored even. Is it for fun? I don't know.

Eddie Pinto (36:29)

I think that there's. There's this. There's this cycle where the. The skills that you learn in play end up being used in the real world in, like, really practical applications. And so me and my wife were goofing off with Gemini, the Google AI, the Google version of chat. They launched something new a couple of weeks ago called Nano Banana. It's just a funny name, but it's basically a really good image generation model where you can upload a photo of yourself to Gemini, you toggle on Nano Banana mode and you can say, imagine me as, you know, I'm making it up a pirate sailing the high seas or whatever it is. Right. And it creates a really good photorealistic version of that. And so we're just playing around with it, we're just goofing off. But then when we actually need a practical application, like one of my cousins, he's just graduating from college, he doesn't have professional headshots. That gets me thinking, hey, hold on, we could have him use Gemini and Nano Banana to basically create a professional headshot for his LinkedIn. So there's a level at which, you know, you, you want to encourage that play. You want to kind of just, you know, like see what capabilities exist because there's always going to be some real world application for that. Maybe not always, but for the most part there's. It, it's going to spur some level of creativity that will translate into the, the workplace too.

Nikki Bella (38:03)

Okay. And you know, with that and before we get into our listener questions, because we want to get more after. Yeah, but, but when you talk about that, because you know, one thing that started to really pique Bri and I's interest is we started to hear about what AI does to the environment. And is that what you're gonna ask? And so what are your thoughts on that? Because we hear, put what it was.

Brie Bella (38:25)

A Bri like, well, that a lot of water use to cool down the systems. So I, gosh, I saw a headline talking about, it was either Iowa or Idaho, right. Something about the, the river, the fresh water was being used to cool down AI systems.

Nikki Bella (38:40)

And I was kind of like, oh.

Brie Bella (38:41)

I didn't know about this, but what is the environmental impact that AI is doing?

Eddie Pinto (38:48)

Yeah. So I've got some bad news, I've got some good news and I've got most of all just hope around this. And not just specific to AI, but the broader, kind of, just the, the broader environmental challenge that we have and AI actually solving for it. So here's the bad news to start us off with each question you ask ChatGPT, it uses the same amount of energy as leaving a 60 watt light bulb on for about 15 to 20 seconds. Now what does that mean? Like how, how much is that? Compare it to a Google search. A Google search takes up about 100 to 1,000 times less energy. And so these are Significantly higher uses of energy. ChatGPT and Gemini and all the other AI models, there's just a lot more data processing happening there. So that's the bad news. The good news is if you look at the trend line of over time, that energy use number is actually going down per question asked. So OpenAI, if you look at their prior model to their current model, there's been a, a 10x reduction in energy used per question. Google with their Gemini models have gotten, they claim, 33 times more efficient in the last 12 months. Those are significant numbers if they're to be believed. And these are organizations that have a vested interest in making that energy use cheaper because for the most part they're not charging or they're charging a nominal fee. So they have to figure out how to make it cheaper. So that's some bad news, some good news, a little more bad news, and then we'll get to the hope part of the program. The, the bad news to kind of couple with the fact that these things are getting way more efficient is that more and more people are using these models. ChatGPT, there's 700 million weekly users. That just boggles my mind. That's like worldwide, double the population of the US is using ChatGPT alone every single week. And they're just one of the models. If you kind of add it all up, it's probably, you know, way more than that. So with that increase in number of people that are using these, these models, you've got higher and higher energy use, even though per question they're getting more and more efficient. So that's, you know, net net. You'd have to assume that if you kind of do the math on it, we're probably using a lot of energy and that number is going up, up at a steady rate as well. So that's kind of where we are right now. Here's the case for hope. These hyperscalers, these large companies, they are signing power purchase agreements for clean renewable energy. And this is really fueling a search for new sources of either carbon neutral or clean power. Things like small modular nuclear reactors, things that, you know, there were startups that were focused on these technologies, but they were very niche. They were struggling to find the investment that they need to really make these things happen at scale. Well, now you've got that juxtaposed with these organizations that need a lot of power. And that's the only way to get to it, is to have these clean sources of energy. So what it's leading to is this world where you actually have funding for clean renewable energy and you have commitments from these companies. For example, Google has said that they intend to be carbon neutral with their AI by the year 2030. That's five years out. I mean, you know, they are actively working towards that. So that's the case for hope. Right now we're in the stage in that cycle where there is a lot of energy use. There's a fifteenth of a teaspoon of water used per question that you ask ChatGPT. That's water that's evaporating from some town somewhere that probably doesn't have like a huge water supply. And so they're looking to find ways to kind of move to places that don't have that problem problem. But we're in the part of the cycle where we haven't solved the problem yet. But there's a lot of hope on the horizon.

Nikki Bella (43:02)

Amazing. Love hope. I love hope. And you know, going into one of the first questions and I feel like this kind of just answered her question was from a fan, from a listener. Is is there other ways to cool down the machines that power AI other than the harmful way? And I feel like that kind of just answered it. It is hopefully in the future, but not right now.

Eddie Pinto (43:25)

Yeah, there's, there's ways that are way more expensive and have their own downsides. And so the reason they're using water is because it's the most efficient way right now. The, the offset there is if they used another method they would be using way more energy and you'd have a bigger problem of you know, coal fired power plants or whatever it is that's kind of driving the energy. So future state, they'll have more of the ability to kind of recycle the water, have it, have these things, have these data centers located in places that don't have the water problem because it's going into the environment. It's not disappearing from earth entirely, it's just how does it stay part of the water cycle in the area?

Brie Bella (44:06)

Okay.

Nikki Bella (44:08)

Yeah.

Brie Bella (44:08)

So be smart when you're chat.

Nikki Bella (44:09)

Yes. Think about the water intake, guys.

Brie Bella (44:15)

Nikki, life can get really busy.

Nikki Bella (44:17)

Really busy. I mean I would say it's been busy for all of us.

Brie Bella (44:20)

I know. And sometimes we just need to take.

Wayfair Announcer (44:22)

A breather, sit down and ask ourselves one very important question.

Nikki Bella (44:27)

What's that, Bri?

Wayfair Announcer (44:28)

Have you had your Hershey's?

Nikki Bella (44:31)

I sure have had my Hershey's Brie. And you know what? When you need to brighten up your day or even put a smile on your face, grab the classic creamy texture and pure milk chocolate flavor of Hershey's Milk Chocolate.

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Nikki Bella (44:54)

It sure does. You want to know what one of my favorite moments with Hershey's Chocolate is? Teo and I like. I love it because you know me, I'm chocolate lover. But now I have a son who's a chocolate lover so we split bars all the time. Time. It's just such a moment for us. A very happy moment. We look at each other, he always ends up getting chocolate all over his face. But it's just such a sweet moment that I find myself always reaching for a Hershey bar.

Brie Bella (45:20)

Always.

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So every time I bust out a.

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Near you found wherever candy is sold.

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Nikki Bella (46:57)

A smart question another listener asked Is it dangerous if we send a photo of ourselves on chat gbt that is.

Eddie Pinto (47:06)

A great question from the Bella Army. I must say we haven't talked about risks at all there. Like I I'd say in general there are settings with each of the AI models that by default are turned on that are probably not what people want. And so the one that I think of is do you want to allow the information that you share or do you want the questions that you're asking to be used to train our models? And if you think about it, the only way to train the model is to actually for it to consume what you have asked and the answers and information that you've shared to make the model smarter. And so if by default that's across every one of the AI tools that are out there, the ones that I've looked at, all of them have that as the default. Now you can turn it off. You go into Gemini and you have to turn off the chat history in there. You can go into Claude and say, I do not want my information used to train the models. But by default it is using your information unless you've turned that setting off. And so there is a very real risk there that's something that you're sharing. It might be, you know, something like your photo. If you don't want it to be uploaded or you're sharing some other personal information, just be smart about it. I, I tend to just turn on the temporary chat feature, even if I'm sharing something that I don't feel comfortable being out there. And even with that, there's still, you know, just a level of trust that, that you have to have. Like, do you want to actually put your information out there?

Nikki Bella (48:54)

Wow. Wow, that's great to know.

Brie Bella (48:57)

Yeah. I had zero idea.

Nikki Bella (48:58)

Zero. Right. Another listener asked, are there protections for reality TV and AI residuals, et cetera, which I feel like this has been like a really big topic in the entertainment industry where people feel like they're getting replaced by AI.

Eddie Pinto (49:12)

Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's an open, you know, there's still active, like it's an actively evolving space. OpenAI, the makers of Chat GPT announced a couple of weeks ago that they're looking to release their first full length feature film. That's all AI, like 100 AI. It's these cute little woodland creatures too. They have like a short film out there version of it. Me and my daughter were looking at it and we were like, this is adorable. But at the same time, what is that displacing? Right? I mean, there's actual actors and there's the art of, you know, illustration, all those things that kind of get replaced. So these are real things that are kind of in an evolving space right now. I think that the coming weeks and months will kind of tell us where that goes, where it ends up going. Because at the end of the day, what are these models serving like towards what end? Like, yes, it might, might be, we might get to a place where it's cheaper to have AI content that you consume, but at what cost? And so I think, you know, it's something that there'll probably be some twists and turns around over time, but right now it's still an unsolved problem and they don't see.

Brie Bella (50:24)

I mean, does it make anyone feel like it's going to be taking over jobs or does it. Is AI something that it's opening up jobs because of all the different apps and the different technology it is bringing?

Eddie Pinto (50:36)

Yeah, I mean, for the longest time, the, the line that got often repeated by the industry thought leaders in AI was AI is not going to come for your job, but somebody who uses AI is going to have the job. And so you need to learn AI. I think that tide has started to shift now. Dario, the leader of one of the large AI hyperscalers, came out last week and said that he sees AI replacing some of the entry level jobs that were out there before. It's a very real concern because if a lot of what AI can do right now is on par with some of the more tactical parts of what a knowledge worker, what an entry level knowledge worker does, then if you stop hiring those entry levels knowledge workers and you live in a future world where there's a fleet of agents that gets onboarded as opposed to a group of new hires, how do you grow people into those next roles? How do you get the kids coming out of school those jobs that kind of, they learn the industry in? So it's a very real problem. I think we're still grappling with that and it's one of the biggest challenges right now with what this means. I think going back to the case for hope, though, you've seen the, there's this photo from, I don't know, this, the 60s or something, whenever it is, but it's these teachers outside of school holding these like, you know, signs up, like ban the calculator or whatever, right? It's like, hey, if we let calculators into the school, it's going to be the end of everything. And so I think these things, if you look through history, there's this ebb and flow where we have some new unlock that leads to some unintended consequences and then we figure out as a society what to do about it, because ultimately that's the thing that we need to figure out. And so I have confidence, I have hope, I'm an optimist, but I think that we'll figure it out. But right now we're in that part of the, you know, in that fuzzy period.

Nikki Bella (52:44)

Yeah, totally. Because I mean, I already am like, wait, if they wanted to take those entries level jobs. Well, when I think then of the environment, I'm like, well, these companies should actually have to pay big money for an AI to be an entry level job. Like not get a freebie, but like if you're gonna use so much water and power, whatever it might be, you have to pay for that or put restrictions on it or laws. And I bet that will come. There was one last question and then we'll get into some inspiration affirmation. To wrap it up, Ashley asked, how can it help us slow down our day to day lives? I want to delegate to AI.

Eddie Pinto (53:24)

So yeah, that is a great question. I think if I think about my own kind of work life, AI is probably saving me four hours a week right now. If I kind of compare to what it was like a couple years ago. Everything from helping me with calendar scheduling to summarizing emails, I think these are tools that people, no matter what you do, you can kind of think about what's taking up the most time in your day that feels like it's the least value added. There are things that probably take up time that you enjoy doing. If you like doing the crossword, don't have AI do the crossword for you. But if you actually do not enjoy something, like if you are just trying to dabble in the stock market and you want, you know, you, you spend an hour every day trying to understand what's happening with individual stocks or whatever it is. It's easy enough to have a prompt that runs for you every day that summarizes the last day's news for a set of companies that you have on your watch list. So as opposed to you having to read all of those, it basically summarizes key trends and you can have it go into the level of detail you want to. So it's a very nuanced question in terms of figure out like write down, kind of do the homework for yourself of what is the thing that you find yourself having to do that you don't want to do. And then the meta way to do this is to ask AI how to take that work away from your day. So you're asking AI how it can help you and then it will come up with ideas to actually save you time in your day.

Brie Bella (55:06)

I love that.

Nikki Bella (55:07)

Yeah, I actually like one. You've given me hope with the industry of AI, but also I'M like, okay, I am going to involve it a little bit more in my life especially because I'm always a person of like there's only a few things in life that can buy you time, right? Getting a non stop flight upgrading and like there's just things I'll think about of like, okay, this truly actually can buy me time in life. And that's one of the things like, like thinking of so I can be mindful about the environment, but where are things that I can bring in AI specifically to help me with balance, routine and saving that little bit of time.

Brie Bella (55:48)

Yeah, definitely.

Nikki Bella (55:50)

This has been so helpful. Like I know so much. Eddie.

Brie Bella (55:54)

Pick your brain all day long.

Nikki Bella (55:55)

I know and it's such an interesting conversation and it's just like I don't feel so in the dark about it anymore.

Brie Bella (56:03)

Well, and maybe we bring you back on because I'm sure we have a lot of our listeners who you are going to call the hotline 833 Garcia.

Wayfair Announcer (56:09)

Too and even ask more questions.

Brie Bella (56:11)

So I feel like it'd be fun to bring you back on. But you know, we love to end our shows with little inspiration, affirmation. Is there a quote or a motto.

Nikki Bella (56:19)

That you live by?

Eddie Pinto (56:20)

Yeah. So I like to think about this. My family, we grew up in Australia throughout when I was young and then I moved to India as a teenager and I was struck by this quote. Atiti devobhava. It's a Sanskrit term which means treat the guest or treat the other as if they're God. And the rationale behind that is this. Think about what a good place the world would be if everyone treated everyone else as if they were God. So the next time someone cuts you off in traffic, maybe they're, you know, in a rush, maybe something's happening in their life, right? Just give them that grace. And so just living your life that way makes a huge difference, especially when you couple it with the second thing, which is mudita, which is the other one that I love, which is. You know how there's a word in English for like jealousy? Like something happened, something could happen to that person. There's no opposite of that, right? There's no. Like, what, what's the term for I feel joy because something good happened to this person. I can truly feel that joy because I know what they're feeling right now. Like they just aced their test or they had something good happen to them. They just got that new car that they wanted to buy, they got the promotion. But try and feel that joy for the other person and then couple that with treating everyone else as if they are God, and you'll just have a way happier time of it. You just won't find yourself being miserable and sad about things that you can't control and you'll end up sleeping at the end of the day a lot better.

Nikki Bella (57:59)

I love that. Eddie and I completely agree. It's. It is. It's so true. If we could just treat everyone that way and also just makes you take a second and think about something.

Brie Bella (58:10)

I agree. In today's world, I feel like everyone treats each other as if it's their enemy. And so it would be nice to see everyone start to treat everyone like.

Wayfair Announcer (58:18)

God, because I feel like we'd see a lot more love and kindness, that's for sure.

Nikki Bella (58:21)

And we would look within ourselves of why am I reacting this this way?

Brie Bella (58:25)

Right?

Nikki Bella (58:25)

You know, why do I feel this?

Brie Bella (58:27)

Yeah. Well, Expert AI Eddie, this has been incredible.

Nikki Bella (58:33)

This has not only you been informative, you hit us with some great inspiration. So we appreciate it so much and taking the time as you are in Las Vegas. And please don't be a stranger. And thank you again for this. Oh, Brison's calling me. Yeah, babe.

Brie Bella (58:51)

He'S home sick from school.

Eddie Pinto (58:53)

I love it.

Brie Bella (58:54)

Second bud, so. Oh, my gosh, that's great.

Nikki Bella (58:57)

Hope he's running down. You better wrap it up, mom Life.

Brie Bella (59:00)

Well, thank you so much.

Eddie Pinto (59:02)

Thanks a lot. Anytime. They'll want me back. More than happy to do it.

Wayfair Announcer (59:05)

Yeah, we'll love that for sure.

Nikki Bella (59:07)

We love that so much.

Brie Bella (59:08)

All right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. You can find videos of today's episode and other episodes of the Nikki and Brie show on our YouTube channel and all our social platforms platforms at the Nikki and Bri show on Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok. Also, you could hear the show too, wherever you get your podcast. But also, we are on Sirus XM Stars 109 and you can call us at 833 Garcia 2.

Nikki Bella (59:33)

Well, Bri, I have to say, I learned a lot today.

Brie Bella (59:36)

Oh, I did too.

Nikki Bella (59:37)

Yeah. Well, we will see you all next time.

Geico Gecko (59:50)

I don't mean to interrupt your meal, but I saw you from across a cafe and you're the Geico Gecko, right?

Eddie Pinto (59:55)

In the flesh.

Geico Gecko (59:56)

Oh, my goodness. This is huge. To finally meet you. I love Geico's fast and friendly claim service.

Nikki Bella (60:01)

Well, that's how Geico gets 97 customer satisfaction.

Geico Gecko (60:04)

Anyway, that's all. Enjoy the rest of your food.

Nikki Bella (60:07)

No worries.

Eddie Pinto (60:09)

Sorry, are you just gonna watch me eat oh, sorry.

Geico Gecko (60:11)

Just a little starstruck. I'll be on my way.

Eddie Pinto (60:14)

If you're gonna stick around, just pull up a chair.

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