Dr. Sammy Ramsey (2:33)

Thanks so much for that incredible welcome. I love that.

Nikki (2:36)

Well, you deserve it, let me tell you. I felt like I could have kept going on because, you know, here on the Nikki and Bri Show, I have been lucky enough for not only our listeners, but these listeners followed me before my podcast on a reality show. And they all know that I am a hippie, garden loving girl. So they know that I'm very excited to talk to you today about bees.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (2:59)

I love it. I love when people are bringing the excitement I am here for.

Nikki (3:03)

Oh, good. So I have to start from the very beginning with you because it's not every day that you get to meet a scientist, let her know an entomologist. So when. What was the moment? And I have to say, I was all stalking your Instagram and realized that you were scared of insects growing up. So I need to know, when was the moment that you knew? Aha. This is it.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (3:26)

Oh, my gosh. I was literally seven years old when I told my parents, quote, I want to be an entomologist when I grow up. And when I tell you I was an odd child. I think you probably gleaned that from what I just said. But I also. It made perfect sense to me logically. I thought that everybody knew exactly what they wanted to be when they grew up, when they were a little kid, because pretty much every adult that I met at that age, they would lean down to me and they'd say, and what do you want to be when you grow up? A little guy. And so I just thought we were all supposed to know. Come to find out, most people have no idea, and we figure it out over time. But I got a little bit of a head start on this. And that's one of the reasons why people really like talking about all the different bugs, because I've been reading about them since I was a kiddo. Now that I'm studying them, I just have a lot of excitement about it.

Nikki (4:13)

What do you think? Remember, and maybe I mean, seven. That is a long time ago. What was it that you were so fascinated with bugs? Because I feel like more like a lot of kids, and especially me, the minute a bug landed us, we were like, screaming and running and wanted nothing to do with them.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (4:30)

That this is exactly it right here. Thank you so much for saying that because that segues perfectly into. What I want to say here is that I was obsessed with insects because I spent so much time being afraid of them, and I realized how irrational it all was. They're the most fascinating thing that I'd ever stepped on in my life. And I know a lot of people have spent a lot of time running from bugs, being frightened of them, none more so than the bees. Bees are these insects where an entire section of their body is weaponized. They have a stinger at the end of their body. They're flying around with it. And what people think is that they wake up in the morning, they're sharpening their stinger, and they're thinking, how am I going to ruin somebody's picnic today? And that's just not their vibe lot that they want to do with their lives. But they are not waking up in the morning thinking about how they can hurt you. And when I realized that I had been thinking about these insects all wrong, I recognized that part of it was because I didn't understand their motivations. I thought their motivations had to be totally different from mine. And it turns out a lot of the same things that motivate them, motivate us like a brother. Is food motivated out here? You don't even know. I love, love finding something to eat.

Nikki (5:40)

And I'm wine motivated out here in wine country.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (5:45)

Exactly. The bees are food motivated. Some of them are also alcohol motivated. There are bees that like having a good time. Sometimes they'll drink some things. They should come back to the colony, mess some stuff up. It's a whole thing. But when we find out that they have similar motivations to ours, that they have similar systems of learning and intelligence to ours, it makes them feel less other. And that whole system just got me obsessed with these creatures.

Nikki (6:11)

Wow. And I love that. And you know, it is so interesting because I feel like when I was a child and a lot of times, you know, I was raised in the desert, so by the swimming pool all the time, we'd see a bee and we'd scream and we would run in, but no adult ever sat and explained to us the motive behind a bee. So we just went with the wild imagination as a child of like, these monsters are, you know, like you said, getting their fingers ready in the morning to come get us, you know, during the day. And it couldn't be more false. You know, it's interesting because the way you just explained that and when I was looking at you on social media, you really do make science feel human. Like, the way you explain it, not only does it make sense, but it comes from this place of like, aha. I mean, it's, wow, it's that simple. It's that easy. It makes that sense. Where did that come from? Like, did you always realize that you explain things simply and just with such a great tone?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (7:10)

Thank you. I really appreciate that. And it's really nice to hear Someone say something like that about a skill set that you've refined over time. But I also have to say I wasn't intentionally refining this skill set for science communication when I got started. Really, it's because of the kinds of reactions that you're talking about. It was me seeing people run and scream from bees, but also specifically because when I was a little kid, I was odd. I told people I was interested in entomology. They thought that was the weirdest thing in the world. Their response was immediately, ew, why? And so then I felt like I needed to have a response for that ew, why? It required that I be a very effective communicator, that I be able to immediately perceive what is it that they are responding to with disgust and why. And then how do I reorient their attention away from that and help them understand why this creature is so interesting? And it was that complex kind of thinking that I was doing as a little kid that totally changed the way that I communicated. And it's made me the kind of communicator where I am now. Now where I'm trying to figure out, okay, when you said the thing that you said, why are you saying it and how can I meet you where you are and make sure that I provide you the information that you might be missing that'll allow you to understand this situation more deeply.

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Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's funny because when people hear scientists, they think the white coat, glasses, and, like, the boring, you know, explanation. But, yeah, you really do nail it. And, you know, it's been incredible because you've been everywhere from NPR to the Today show. What do you feel the biggest misconception people have when they hear the word scientist?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (10:17)

Oh, my gosh. So the lab coat is immediately what people are going to think. It is so iconic. It is so connected with the concept of science, but it also makes people think of this very sterile environment where we are kind of siloed away from the rest of the world, dripping some fluid from one beaker into another beaker and watching it explode. And there's so much more to being a scientist. Some of us are field researchers, and some of us do a hybrid sort of thing, like I do. I work in the lab for about half my time, and then I spend the rest of it outside running around. That's how I became a National Geographic wayfinder. They actually contacted me while I was running around Thailand to ask me to join the National Geographic Society. And it's been such an incredible experience. But I have to say, it wouldn't be the same without the capacity to run around in the field, collect giant bees from huge trees in the Philippines and Thailand and Taiwan. That part of being a scientist is the exciting expedition aspect of it. And it's what I hope that more people will associate with what we do. I want you to think in Indiana Jones, I want you thinking of me like, climbing down a rope, grabbing some bees, because that's actually the kind of work that a lot of scientists do, and it is exciting, and it's the stuff of movies.

Nikki (11:38)

Oh, my gosh. Do you ever get scared when you're out in the field that you. You might just come across, like, the wrong hive or. I don't know. Is there any moments you're just like, oh, absolutely.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (11:48)

And honestly, I feel the most scared for my students when I go into these contexts, because I'm bringing undergraduates, graduate students, and I want them to have these experiences. We are in a mangrove forest in Bangladesh, longest, largest mangrove forest in the world. And there's tigers here. We are climbing trees in Peru or the Philippines or Ecuador looking for these different species of bees, and there's bees in the trees. And obviously we don't want to fall. And so safety is the most important part of everything that we do. We're anchored in. And I try to have functional redundancy to everything. So if one of my students is climbing a tree, they have multiple points where, I'm anchored in here, I'm anchored in there. I'm anchored in there. Every possible thing in the world would have to go wrong for something bad to happen. And that's it for me, is making sure that there's always some system of redundancy just in case one or two things fail. We don't expect that the third and fourth and fifth thing are going to fail too.

Nikki (12:49)

Oh, my gosh, that's amazing, because I think to myself, oh, I'd love to join him on a field trip. But then if you were like, okay, Bri, freeze. And things are surrounding me, it would be very hard for me to stay still. But, yeah.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (13:02)

Bri, how do you feel about tigers?

Nikki (13:03)

You know, see that right there? And I don't even want to say I. I want to see them in the wild, but I'd love to be, like, very far away. You know what I mean? We're down there. I'm, like, way up here. But I would love to see them in their habitat. I don't want to see them in a cage at a zoo. I'd love to see them in their habitat. But you know what? Maybe that will be a different lifetime. So I need to ask you what. You know, let's really dive into bees. And what's something about bees that still blows your mind even after all these years?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (13:35)

Something about bees that consistently blows my mind is how remarkably intelligent these insects are. Some of them have brains the size of a pinhead, and they are able to work out these incredibly complicated puzzles. They're able to communicate with each other in ways that show a capacity to really understand the world around them and also convey information they can even teach each other. And these are things that we show in the documentary Secrets of the Bees, where when one bee learns something really fascinating, its capacity to teach it to another bee is off the wall. Bonkers to my mind. And it was so cool to actually see it up close and to be able to show it to all of you. Your jaw will be on the floor when you watch a bee teach another bee how to solve problems.

Nikki (14:20)

Oh, my gosh. I don't know where I saw this, but I saw maybe a reel or somewhere, like, a bee performing, like, surgery on another bee.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (14:29)

Yeah. There are ants that will actually perform surgery on ants. If they get sick. Yeah, all good. If they get sick sometimes. And don't worry. So ants, bees and wasps are all related in this group. And so they're the social insects. They're the ones that have figured out that the key to being really successful in this world is working together. So if an ant lived by itself and it got an infection in its leg, it wouldn't be able to handle that on its own. It wouldn't be able to reach the area of that infection particularly effectively. But because they live in a colony, another ant will come along and they'll be like, look, buddy, a brother is sick. Oh, a sister, because they're all girls, a sister is sick. Could you help me out? And the other ant will be like, ooh, looks like the problem is right here. We gotta amputate above the knee. And she'll chop that leg off. And because of that, the ant is able to survive this experience where otherwise that infection would have killed it. That is actual surgery. And that's the kind of thing that emerges when organisms live together and work in social context.

Nikki (15:27)

Wait, did you just say they're all females?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (15:31)

Yeah, they're all girls. They're all. It's a ladies world out here.

Nikki (15:33)

I mean, can I just say this? No wonder they are. You know, they work that colony and everything's so good. They're doing surgeries. They're like, wow, you know what, that says a lot. But it's so wild to me because I wish humans would understand the concept of when we all come together and we just, you know, help each other and follow just what we can do. But if you had to explain bees to someone like me in one sentence, why should we care? What would you tell?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (16:08)

Oh, my gosh, I think I can explain it to you. Not just in one sentence, but in one word. Food, Honey. Food. Yeah. If you are looking for a reason to. Even if we just think of this totally selfishly, if you were looking for a reason to selfishly support the bees, they are supporting your entire diet for the most part. Like the. The fruits, vegetables, nuts, spices, everything that makes your food taste good primarily comes from them. And then you might be thinking, oh, I'm a carnivore. I don't really do the fruits and vegetables that much. The fruits and vegetables that are fed to the cows, the chickens and the pigs to get them to the size necessary for them to become food, come from the bees. They have their little footpads in pretty much everything that we consume. And as a result of that, if we don't make sure that we are working as hard to keep them healthy as they are working to keep us healthy. We are going to end up in an absolute catastrophe. We are already in a situation now where food is becoming more expensive, fuel is becoming more expensive, and then getting that food to us because it's got a ride in all these trucks, that's becoming more expensive. We have to make sure that the bees that are supporting our food and our economy are healthy because they are the third most valuable livestock on the planet. We, the usda, actually considers bees livestock. So after chickens and pigs, it's your bees.

Nikki (17:36)

Right? And can you explain too, to all the listeners, like, realistically, if bees didn't exist, what this world would look like?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (17:45)

Oh, my gosh, if bees didn't exist. I want you to say goodbye to the flowering plants that you know and love. All of those amazing moments where you come back to your apartment on Valentine's Day and your partner has this beautiful bouquet of roses and all these lovely flowers. None of that. That's not happening. The wonderful food products that they also have all set up and, and spread out like, oh, yeah, we're about to have a little feast. Nope, Nick's. All of that, too. I want you to consider the candles that they have lit all over the place. Nah, girl. Not that either. Like so much of what we very regularly take for granted, as this is just a part of the world around us would be gone. And as a result of that, the animals and the forests and the systems that depend on them would also disappear. They underpin so many of our ecosystems that we would lose the biodiversity around us. And biodiversity is important because all of these organisms around us, they show us ways of solving problems. We have learned how to. To fix so many problems in this world by cheating off the answer sheet so that the insects and the plants and so many other creatures have already figured out when they disappear, we lose all of those opportunities to learn how they've solved the same problems that we face today. So if we want to look at it from a selfish standpoint, we have every reason to treat the bees with the kind of dignity that allows them to stay around for thousands and thousands more years.

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That's W A Y F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every home. This is what kills me, is that we have the scientific facts, but yet everyone's so attached to pesticides and roundup in these very perfect groomed, you know, front yards and backyards. And it kills me because it's like, science is science. The facts are the facts. Like, and this is it. And so it kills me. It's like, oh my gosh, I don't. This has been always like pulled up my heartstrings and, you know, I see it, but I'm just like, why don't we just take that step of under, like how we can protect these creatures? I mean, they are everything.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (22:05)

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I love when I talk to somebody and I don't have to convince them of that before we can move forward. I love that you already understand that you have that vibe. I think it's from what you were calling your hippie vibes earlier. It's that connection to nature. But something else that I think is really important to bring up in this context is that there are people who are really trying very hard right now to divide us in our passion for protecting and conserving these organisms. And they will say, no, no, no, no, no. I know you've heard all of this stuff about saving the bees, but you've been trying to save the wrong bees. Bees. There's wrong bees and there's right bees and there's no such thing. And I've seen this in everything from, from the New York Times to articles, even in, in like npr. And I'm like, guys, there is no wrong bee. These. Just because a bee doesn't happen to come from the area where it is now doesn't mean that it's the wrong bee. A lot of the bees that are underpinning our food security are the European honeybee. They are transplants that came along from Europe, as a lot of America has as well. And the idea that we should just make sure that we do nothing to help them because they're not from America is a wild concept, oftentimes coming from people who are also not technically from America, if you hear what I'm saying. So we need to make sure that we don't allow these. These systems of trying to divide everything up into neat categories cause us to lose sight of the fact that there are 20,000 species of bees and all of them can be helped by us focusing our attention on making sure that they have the food that they need. We say that rising tides raise all boats, rising flowers raise all bees. If we start planting wildflowers, we make sure that those bees have the food products that they need and also the medicines that they need. Bees are capable of self medicating. They are incredibly intelligent organisms. When they are aware I have some kind of ailment, I need to go out and I need to find what plants have the cure for what ails me. They can find specific plants that have resins with antibacterial components to them. They can find flowers that have nectars and, and pollen that can protect them from bacteria and even some parasites in their digestive system. And when we don't provide them with a diverse assemblage of food for them to consume, we stop them from being able to help themselves. We stop them from Being healthy. And we put them in a system where they are very likely to not make it. And we can change this. Even just planting one square foot of flowers can support hundreds of pollinators. And it's something anybody can do, even if you just hang a nest box outside of your apartment window.

Nikki (24:54)

Oh, I so agree. And for people who are wondering what native plants are in their area, there's always an extension office in your county with master gardeners or if you go to your local nursery and they will tell you what native plants that bees need and what will grow just by the rainfall you get every year. Everyone acts like it's so hard, but it's so easy. Yeah, I mean, I consider myself a lazy gardener because I do so much native and all these things, but all I have to do is, like, babysit. I'm like, they do so much on their own and all of it, and it's. It's incredible what I can grow and the beauty I. That surrounds me, really, just by letting nature do its thing and in its own native world. But, you know, that's for some wine and another time that we could really get into that. But, you know, I'm so excited for the Secret of the Bees coming out at National Geographic, by the way. I mean, National Geographic, one of those places, like, when my kids want to watch television, we always go straight there. I mean, because they love seeing all the animals learning. I can't believe how much my kids know about animals just from National Geographic, But I am so excited for this series. So this series spent three years capturing a single hive. I mean, that's wild. So what makes that so special?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (26:15)

Oh, my gosh. So colonies are an entire organism by themselves. It is a superorganism, the same way that we are super organisms as people. So think about it as a human being. Your body is composed of millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of cells all working together to make you one entity. You are not a single entity bifurcated into millions of little pieces. You are one individual, and you're better for it. The bees, their entire colony is hundred, thousands, tens of thousands of individuals, all working together, sometimes 60,000 individual bees to make up a single colony. And that colony, the same way that we grow and we change and we mature, that colony will as well. It will grow, it will change, it will mature. And over three years, they were able to capture every aspect of how that happened. And I'm so excited to be a part of a team like this, just like in a honeybee colony, all of the bees have their different jobs. I was so excited to get to watch some of these individuals on our team do their jobs because the system of cinematography that people like our cinematographer Alistair McEwan brought to bear here, where he was able to create this honeybee colony in a shed where he kind of was. Because of the way the colony was structured, he was able to affix cameras in different ways into the colony so that you could get a view of what the bees are doing that no one else has ever seen before. When you're watching this, I'm telling you, your jaw is going to be on the floor because the, the way that this was filmed and the level, the amount of time that went into it where you get to see the swarming behavior of the bees, you get to watch a colony from the moment that it's born to the point where it actually splits into two colonies and a queen goes off and flies around and finds males to mate with, comes back. If there's any other queens in there, she takes them out because she don't play that like it's. It's a whole thing. And it's. There's so much intrigue in the system that I think people are going to be so excited to see.

Nikki (28:25)

Oh, I mean, I literally cannot wait like that. That stuff just fascinates me. And I feel like even as humans, it's like we get some tips like you're gonna learn something from some bees and bring it into your own life. That's for sure. This April, get your rom com on with youh, Me and Tuscany. Only in theaters April 10th from Will Packer, producer of Girls Trip, you, Me and Tuscany has all the ingredients of your favorite rom coms heart, huge laughter and sizzling chemistry. Starring Halle Bailey and Reggae Jean Page and set in the enchanting vineyards of Tuscany, this film is a movie escape that's perfect for date night or girls night. Don't miss you, Me and Tuscany. Directed by Cat Coiro. Only in theaters April 10th. If you thought HBO's euphoria was intense

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Nikki (29:46)

So what do you think we know about bees verse what this series reveals.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (29:51)

Yeah. So this series is going to show us bees in ways that we haven't seen them. But I hope that it also shows us ourselves in ways that we haven't thought of ourselves before, because there are ways that we are making life really difficult for bees. We take people through this remarkable process that occurs where we will take the vast majority of honeybee colonies in the US we will move them to one state, California, and we will provide them this opportunity to pollinate all of these plants. But we also have to find ways to do this that better protect the welfare of the bees in the process, because in doing this, we are exposing them to a lot of stress. And as we expose them to this stress, that means that they are going to get sick more easily and that they're going to be able to spread that sickness more easily because they're around a lot of other individuals that are sick. And so these kinds of situations that have already shown us how dependent we are on bees, but also how fragile that bee infrastructure can be and how we have to do everything that we can to keep our bees healthy and happy. That's going to be a really essential part of this.

Nikki (31:01)

I love that. And what's one thing you hope people take away from this series?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (31:05)

Goodness. I need y' all to understand that the bees that are flying around are not trying to hurt you. There are so many bees out here that are just living their best lives, and you. You have confused them. I want you to think for a moment just. Just maybe go in your cabinet, open it up, and look at how many of your skin and hair care products have essential oils from flowers in them. They have smells that make you smell like a flower. Then I want you to open your closet and look at how many of your clothing options have floral prints. And then I want you to take a moment to consider. Is the bee that's getting on your nerves at the picnic really the menace? Or is it you who have chosen to masquerade as their food and then swing at them when they show up? Because that's rough.

Nikki (31:57)

100%. And if someone wants to help make some type of impact to save the bees, where do they start?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (32:05)

Oh, my gosh.

Nikki (32:06)

I know. That's a hard one, right?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (32:09)

Like what?

Nikki (32:10)

One even small change someone could do.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (32:12)

So one small change that I hope that people will consider is well within their grasp. I want all of y' all to rewild your lawns. Like it's so much better than mowing your lawn every couple of Weeks when you could just as easily allow your lawn to rewild, allow the flowers that used to take up residence in that area to once again do so, because it provides all of this forage for the bees, food for them, but also places for them to live. When the reeds of some of those flowers and the stems of those plants dry out, there are bees that will tunnel their way down inside and they'll lay an egg there, and they'll form a nursery where they'll fly back and forth from the flowers that you have grown in your garden. They'll bring pollen and nectar to their babies. You have provided them with not just a source of food, but a daycare center. And so many of us, us can do that. And it's just such a precious experience.

Nikki (33:08)

It really is. And for everyone who's like, how can I make that happen? When my husband and I bought the house we're living in now, I realized that the people were using round whatever to get rid of weeds, which always kills me because weeds are beautiful. And so when we moved in, I instantly was like, nope. So we had to re. Do all the. They didn't do it to the backyard. It was all the front yard. So we had to redo everything and get the front yard feeling in its own native place again. And now when I see it and how everyone blooms and all that, and it was literally just by getting, you know, rid of that. And I probably took, I don't know, maybe six months until I. I've seen everything blossom. And it's so pretty. Like, it's so much more green and the wild stuff. And it is so fun to see the hummingbirds coming back, the bees, like they're all coming back home instead of nothing.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (34:02)

Yeah.

Nikki (34:03)

So it's very easy to do if you have a traditional front yard. You can make it wild. And wild's just so pretty.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (34:10)

Yes.

Nikki (34:10)

Well, this has been so much fun, and I can not wait to see your new series with National Geographic. I'm so excited. And we always end our shows with little inspiration, affirmation. Is there a quote or a mantra, something you live by, that you'd love to leave our listeners with?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (34:26)

Oh, my goodness. A mantra that I love to live by. A mantra that I love to live by is that a bee is not a bee. We don't know exactly who said it, but a bee by itself. Like these honeybees, these bumblebees who live inside of colonies. And we're specifically talking about social bees. These bees that live together, they're able to be so incredibly successful because they work together, because they consider the welfare of the other bees in this process, they will protect them. Bees are not the only ones, or we are not the only ones out here who have pandemics. There are also pollinator pandemics. And when a bee gets sick, it will sequester itself in a part of the colony where there's less foot traffic in hopes that it won't get its sisters sick. And if it doesn't recover quickly enough, it'll leave the colony and do what it can to make sure that its sisters don't get whatever ailment it received. That level of, of care for others is something that I wish that we as human beings were more willing to employ because it's the reason why these insects are among the most successful creatures on the entire planet. And it's one of these things that can pull us as human beings away from so many of the problems that are causing issues all around the world. It can pull us back from the brink and allow us to see things differently and truly help each other. So a bee by itself is not a bee. And I would also deign to say that a person by themselves, all by yourself, it is very difficult for you to do the things that will keep you at happiest and the healthiest, but together we form an organism in and of itself that is truly humanity.

Nikki (36:00)

Oh my gosh, that's so beautiful. Dr. Sammy, thank you so much for leaving that with us. You have no idea. And also so grateful for people like you who fight the good fight. And because of you, we get to eat and enjoy all the beautiful things that nature has. And you know, I, I'm sure the bees are very grateful for you. So thank you so much for doing all of that. And congratulations again for your new series with National Geographic. We all can't wait to watch.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (36:29)

Thank you so much. You guys are going to love this.

Nikki (36:31)

Yes. And if you'd love to see videos of today's episode, you can check us us out on the Nikki and Bree show social media pages. That's Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, oh my gosh. You name it, we're on it. Also YouTube, you can watch this whole episode. You can also catch us on Sirius XM Stars 109. And if you have a question for Dr. Sammy, I'll get it to him. Just call our hotline at 833 Garcia too. And where can everyone find you? What's your handle?

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (36:58)

That's Dr. Sammy Grams. D R S A M M Y G R a. M. S. Yes. On Instagram.

Nikki (37:03)

Awesome. Well, check them out. You'll love it. Well, you have a beautiful day and you go enjoy the bees.

Dr. Sammy Ramsey (37:10)

Thank you so much. And you as well. Thanks for this opportunity.

Nikki (37:13)

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