Host Nikki (3:25)

Oh, wow.

Host Bri (3:26)

Yeah.

Mariana Van Zeller (3:27)

And I was the only Portuguese journalist in Manhattan at the time, so I ended up doing all the live coverage. You know, Manhattan was basically closed off. You couldn't go in or out. And I ended up doing all the live coverage for Portugal's television station, the biggest television station at the time.

Host Bri (3:43)

And.

Mariana Van Zeller (3:44)

And I. And that sort of changed in me the idea of the kind of journalism that I wanted to do. I realized during that time that I wanted to try to figure out not so much just the when or the what, but more who and why. And so a year after graduating from Columbia University, I moved to the Middle East. The war in Iraq had just started, and I sort of started doing my first reports on. Sort of. Yeah, the underground and the secret and most dangerous corners of the world.

Host Bri (4:16)

Wow. Mariana. You know, it's so fascinating because watching you on the hit show Trafficked, and then even seeing you on your podcast, which, congratulations, by the way, it's doing incredible. The hidden third. You ask really great questions, those uncomfortable questions that we all want to know. But I have to know, was that something you really had to train yourself to do, or is that.

Mariana Van Zeller (4:37)

Have you.

Host Bri (4:38)

Ever since you were 12 years old, you've always been the girl to ask the uncomfortable questions. And your parents are like, of course she's a journalist.

VRBO Announcer (4:45)

Yeah.

Mariana Van Zeller (4:45)

I've always been very, very curious, and I've always been very outgoing and not very shy and not afraid of asking hard questions. But I also feel it's my responsibility as a journalist, right, to actually ask those tough questions, to seek the truth, to look for accountability, particularly in the subject matters. That I cover, whether it's the opiate crises or gun trafficking or fake medications or scams. I mean, these are all issues that have real victims. And so it's part of the work that I do in trying to actually raise some accountability and try to figure out what do people feel about being a fentanyl chemist? How do you feel about knowing that there are people that are dying because of what you do? Or a gun trafficker, you know, or a scammer, knowing that people are even, you know, as far as committing suicide because of the crimes that you're committing. So these are all important questions. And I have the unique privilege of being able to sit down face to face with these people and sort of be a part of their secretive world. And it's my. Yeah, again, it's my responsibility to ask those hard questions. Yeah.

Host Nikki (5:52)

And. Well, you know what I, I love though, that you do that I feel is very different from a lot of people is you lead with empathy instead of intimidation. And is there like a certain reason why you do that? Is it just who you are or

Host Bri (6:06)

is it a technique you realize works, opening these people up?

Mariana Van Zeller (6:11)

Yeah, I think a little bit of both. I think that, you know, I'm constantly, I work in a male dominated environment.

Host Bri (6:19)

You do?

Mariana Van Zeller (6:20)

Yeah. Particularly in black markets. It's very often me and I'm surrounded by men, you know, masked arm guys. And even my team is mostly that we go out on the field is mostly men. And I think I always say that I use gender, gender bias to my advantage, partly because I think as women we're underestimated and that works in my, again, in my advantage. But I also think that as women we have more empathy, we are more willing to see the world through, you know, to place ourselves in people's shoes. And that's what I've always done as a journalist and also what I've always done as a woman. And so when I'm, you know, talking to drug traffickers and skills, cameras and smugglers and pirates and all these folks, I'm constantly, I'm more, I'm not only interested in what they're doing right now in the criminal space, but how do they get there? How does an assassin become an assassin? You know, all, you know, I really want to learn about what got them there and try to, at the end of the day, get people to connect with people that we considered are the bad guys. Right. The most ostracized stereotype people in our society. But I truly believe that no one is born wanting to be a Criminal and that it's in oftentimes, from my experience, it's the circumstances and the lack of opportunities that lead people to a life of crime. And I think understanding that is way more interesting and help will help us actually change the world to understand the root cause. Right. Instead of just judging people.

Host Bri (7:53)

I agree. And, you know, it's so interesting to me because you do sit down with a lot of dangerous people. I mean, like, when I look at the cartel and so many different people you have interviewed, it's dangerous. And how. What mentally do you do for yourself when you go into these interviews?

Mariana Van Zeller (8:11)

Yeah, I'm not usually. It's funny, you know.

Host Bri (8:13)

Are you ever scared?

Mariana Van Zeller (8:15)

Yeah, it's funny that I never realized that when I started doing this kind of work, I always thought that I wouldn't understand why other people wouldn't. Why wouldn't you want to, you know, go and interview, you know, spend time with a rebel group in the mountains between Iraq and Iran or go into these scammer dens in West Africa? I really couldn't understand why, because I have so much curiosity. And really, to me, that's fast. And these are fascinating worlds. You know, I think when you tell a journalist that there is a closed door and you can absolutely not see what's happening on the other side of that door, that's exactly where you want to go. Or at least for me, it's exactly where I want to go. And I didn't understand why other people wouldn't and would be sort, sort of not comfortable with that. I've always been comfortable in those environments, so I don't think that I'm particularly scared in those moments. Of course, stuff has happened. You know, we make all these plans and make sure that we have a security plan in place when we go to the field. And as I say, you know, shit happens.

Host Nikki (9:18)

Right.

Mariana Van Zeller (9:19)

And it's like Mike Tyson would tell you, you know, plans are great until you get punched in the face. Yeah, that happens often when we're reporting on these. In these dangerous parts of the world. But generally I don't lead with fear. I lead with curiosity. And, and, and, and, yeah, and we. And I also, like. There's a lot of experience and planning in place before we even hit the ground.

Host Nikki (9:44)

Wow, that's.

Host Bri (9:46)

Yeah.

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I mean, major wow. It's incredible.

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Host Nikki (11:55)

R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. You know, like on this journey and like where you've gotten to, you know, in success. And I think of all our female listeners that are listening, did you ever on this road, like have a moment of like feeling broken or like I can't and like what was the feeling of like then being able to succeed in can Because I, I feel like so much like all of us have so many different backgrounds, but we've conquered different places for women and people always want to hear like, but how did you. And what were the bad moments and what are the good and how did you get there?

Mariana Van Zeller (12:37)

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, it wasn't easy. I have my dream job, right.

Ryan Reynolds (12:43)

I.

Mariana Van Zeller (12:44)

International investigative journalists travel all around the world covering black markets, which is what I'm fascinated about. The hidden third, which are these estimated 35% of the global economy that are black and green markets. So I really do have my dream job. It wasn't easy to get here, right? You don't, you don't gain success overnight. And it was, you know, persistence for me. Determination and persistence has really been important in everything I do in life. And, you know, knocking on the dean's door on my third attempt, I wouldn't have gotten into Columbia. They discourage international students from visiting the school. It wouldn't have happened to me if I actually hadn't taken that extra step and gone to New York and met the dean in storytelling, the same thing. When I started as a freelance journalist, I would go around and send emails to everybody I knew in journalism to try and get my stories bought from them as a freelance journalist. And more often than not, I would get no's. Nos, no's. And then I'd. I remember making phone calls and telling editors, oh, I'm actually going to be in your city. Can we meet in person? And it was not true. I was not supposed to go to that city, but just knew that meeting face to face is going to give me an upper hand. Right. Maybe they'll really like the story if I actually tell them in person. And the same thing with these black markets. I just don't take no for an answer. I just keep. I'm insistent and I keep going after it again and again. I think that's really been what. What has, you know, made this, my career, possible. It's a show and a work based on impossible access. And we keep proving that that access isn't, in fact, impossible if you're persistent and determined.

Host Nikki (14:24)

It's so. I mean, that is so true. I. I feel like some of the greatest stories I hear, it's always that they just don't take no for an answer. They're just not going to stop until they get that opportunity and then prove themselves. Now, because of your career, what do you do to decompress? I mean, you have to make sure, right? There's moments to, like, get out of that space.

Mariana Van Zeller (14:44)

I drink a lot of wine.

Host Nikki (14:46)

Hey, girl. I know.

Host Bri (14:47)

Speaking our language, right? We live in Napa Valley, so.

Mariana Van Zeller (14:53)

Oh, you guys are lucky. I'm a sparkling wine fan.

Host Bri (14:58)

We love it.

Mariana Van Zeller (14:59)

Yes. But yeah, you know, I do. I hang out with my friends.

Host Bri (15:04)

Friends.

Mariana Van Zeller (15:04)

I love shopping. I love Eating it is a priority when we go out, even when we're, you know, reporting in some of these dangerous, dark places. I always tell my crew that it's very important for us all to meet at the end of the day and share a glass of wine or dinner and decompress and just talk about what we went through. You know, we often. The stories we tell are hard stories. And having that moment with my crew, we. I've had the same people that I've worked with for the past decade or so, and just having that moment where we can all sit around a table and talk and sort of filter it all is. Is super, super important.

Host Bri (15:41)

I agree with that. That is for sure. That's what we like to do. So, you know, you had your hit show Traffic on National Geographic and Hulu, and now you've started your podcast, the Hidden Third. What differs from both the show going into your podcast?

Host Nikki (15:58)

Yeah.

Mariana Van Zeller (15:58)

So I had this incredible opportunity. We did five seasons of Traffic, and every episode was a different black market. So again, guns, illegal immigration, scams, all of it. And we get this incredible access to all these worlds. Right. But mostly people would see about two, three, four minutes of a person's interview max, you know, and I'd come back home with all these incredible stories about how a person actually got there. And. And I've always found these stories fascinating. I would actually spend an hour or two talking to most of these people, and then my camera crew would be like, dude, I mean, seriously, we have to go a lot more interviews, a lot more than we need to film. And so the podcast has really been. I sort of see it as the traffic being the map of all these black markets around the world. And the podcast is sort of a diary, right? Is where I actually spend time with. With people, where I can have sort of raw, intimate, sometimes difficult conversations with really fascinating people, whether they've been victims of crimes or been part of these criminal worlds. Law enforcement people that are fighting against these criminal worlds. So it's, you know, a panoply of different kinds of people that inhabit what is known as the hidden third of the global world.

Host Bri (17:17)

I love that. You know, that's why I love podcasting, because of the deeper conversations like the diaries. Yeah, yeah.

Mariana Van Zeller (17:24)

Well.

Host Nikki (17:24)

And especially with those stories. I mean, I was just on your social media, and I was already, like, marking, like, a few episodes that I need to go listen to, because I was just blown away by people's stories. I was like, oh, my goodness. And then she and I were saying, like, because how you are so empathetic. Then we found ourselves, like, feeling bad for some of the people. And I'm like, but they're bad people. But I feel bad because. Bad for the scam.

Ryan Reynolds (17:49)

Like, why?

Host Nikki (17:49)

Yeah, why? They got there.

Host Bri (17:51)

And I know.

Host Nikki (17:52)

Are you someone that does like vision boards or like, you said, goals?

Mariana Van Zeller (17:57)

No.

Host Nikki (17:57)

You're like, no. Like, are you okay.

Mariana Van Zeller (18:03)

Even interview. I don't, I don't like to. When I interview people, I don't like to have a list of questions ahead of time.

Host Nikki (18:10)

Yeah.

Mariana Van Zeller (18:11)

I like to go deep in conversations with them and figuring, finding out. I want it to be more of a conversation. And yeah, I don't. I like planning actually stresses me out.

Host Nikki (18:20)

Yeah.

Mariana Van Zeller (18:20)

It makes me anxious because then it feels like it's work to me. Yeah. Feels like if I don't ask those questions or if I don't do it the way that is planned, then I'm failing or something. It just, it makes me very stressed. So. No. So vision boards are not something I do. Do you guys do them a lot?

Host Nikki (18:39)

I do. Well, we. We love them. We're obsessed. We're. We're total. Even though I. I don't do resolutions really anymore because I've kind of realized over the past, I'd probably say maybe decade. I final learned, like, wait, why do I have expectations? Like with men with goals, wellness? I mean, because it stresses you out, which stresses you out majority of times, disappointments. And so I've learned to like, let go of expectations. But I'm, I love like vision boards and stuff. And I was asking because I'm so curious, like, with you. Well, one, I would be so curious what would be on your vision board. I'm like, I wonder what you would put on there, especially because it's so amazing. What I love about talking to you is like coming from a male dominated industry, yours is way different, like, and so it makes you very dangerous men. Right.

Mariana Van Zeller (19:31)

Well.

Host Nikki (19:31)

And that's why I'm like, I wonder what else she, like, dreams about or like, you know, the day you leave this earth, what do you want besides being remembered for your incredible journey? Well, yeah. And what you do for

Host Bri (19:45)

would I

Host Nikki (19:46)

say journalist or journalism? Journalism and all that. And you know, your shows and how you've won your Emmys. Like, is there anything else for you? Like, this is what I want to leave with people or this is, you know, in these other decades of my life, I want to get to.

Mariana Van Zeller (20:00)

Yeah. I think that more than being seen as a person that's done this really brave and daring work, I think Most of all, I want to be somebody who's remembered as having done work that has allowed us to connect on a very human level with people that we think we have nothing in common with. I think what my work has taught me is that no matter how far I travel to the edges of our society, that I can still find people that are relatable and that are redeemable. And that has been really special for me and I hope to my viewers and my listeners as well. I think that it is important for us to all of us have a little bit of good and a little bit of bad inside of us. And I think that we tend to sort of see the world and see people as absolutes, absolutes, good or bad. And I think the work that I do is really in trying to see more of the gray area and to allow for mistakes and allow for more of a middle ground, particularly in the days that we're living right now where everything seems to be be so extremist and so divisive and so allowing for us to connect on a human level with a scammer in West Africa to understand what led him to that work, to that kind of job, to me is really important. And truly, if we're trying to stop crime, understanding the root causes is the best way to fight crime. And so that's what I try to do. Yeah. On level. Yeah.

Host Bri (21:41)

That gave me chills.

Host Nikki (21:42)

Like I felt that.

Host Bri (21:43)

Yeah.

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Host Bri (22:51)

And you know, it's amazing. Cause like you are a woman who's going to go down in Women's history month. People are going to always be talking about you. They talk about you now. But is there a woman that is kind of inspired you? Whether I mean it could be a family member or someone else, like as you were growing up.

Mariana Van Zeller (23:07)

Yeah, I would say two. So my grandmother, I think it's a little cliche to say somebody in your family, but my grandmother has always taught me, I think a lot of the empathy and the giving side of me has always been something that I've learned from my grandmother. We were very, very close to passing a few years ago, but I think she. I have a lot of that in me. And then I think my. My. I will say my journalism hero growing up was Christiana Manpour, the international foreign journalist for cnn. And I used to work at ABC News, too. I mean, I used to watch her on television covering the. The. The first Iraq war, the Kuwait war. And I. She was one of the first women out there doing, like, actual war reporting, which was done traditionally by men. And I remember seeing her and thinking, wow, this. This woman is incredible. So when I started as a journalist and I started doing on camera work, I would try to be Christian. I'm a poor. And I would fail dramatically. I could not. I had a really hard time on camera because I was trying to be somebody that I was not.

Host Bri (24:11)

And just.

Mariana Van Zeller (24:11)

It wasn't authentic. Right. And. But it was me. It was my homage to Christiana Monport was trying to be more like her. And then I realized, yeah, this is not going to work. Not her. I have other attributes and I'm going to focus on what I'm actually what's more authentic to me. So that's one thing that I always caution people against. Even, you know, young journalists that reach out to me is they're trying to. They ask, like, how did you get there? What was your path? And I think it's important for people to find their own path and their own voice when trying to achieve their dreams. I agree.

Host Nikki (24:44)

I feel like we all were born with a certain purpose. And it's like you go through this journey of life and you never know when you're gonna hit it. But then all of a sudden, it's just. You could tell your soul starts to go on fire and you're like, wait, this is what I'm meant to do. Like, this is where I feel empowered and inspired and motivated. And it's weird. You either watch people on TV or see something, but it's just you're born with something that's so true.

Mariana Van Zeller (25:09)

And you kind of wish you were able to tell your younger self that, right?

Host Nikki (25:13)

Oh, my gosh, so much.

Mariana Van Zeller (25:15)

Give it a glimpse of yourself.

Host Bri (25:17)

Yes.

Mariana Van Zeller (25:19)

30s, 40s, or 50s.

Host Nikki (25:20)

It's so true.

Mariana Van Zeller (25:22)

Much easier. Yes.

Host Nikki (25:24)

I feel like. Like my angels are trying to give me glimpses in college with certain courses or moments, and then I just go party it away and go in some different direction. And I was like, if you only could have Gotten your shit together then. But I guess that's the journey wasn't for you. No. And then I feel like I went through experiences that now I could share with other women of like, hopefully, yeah, they don't do what I do, but, yeah.

Host Bri (25:50)

Mariana, is there anyone that you haven't interviewed that you're dying to interview?

Mariana Van Zeller (25:57)

I'd love to interview El Chapo. So I've covered the drug wars for many years. I've been to Sinalo. I've reported more from Sinaloa than anywhere else on Earth. I've done endless stories on, you know, everything from fentanyl to heroin to marijuana, cocaine. And, yeah, I've worked a lot, and I filmed every, you know, sinacarios, chemists, fentanyl chemists, all of it. But I've never. Yeah. And I've actually gone. When El Chapo fled From prison in 2015, I did a story called Chasing El Chapo, where we went all the way to his hometown. We drove for like, two, three days into the mountains of Sinaloa, the Sierra Madre, Montana.

Host Nikki (26:39)

Oh, my gosh.

Mariana Van Zeller (26:40)

We go and try to see. To find El Chapo, mostly was to see what the search for the most wanted man alive looked like. And so it was me, my friend Miguel Angel Vega, who's from Sinaloa, an amazing journalist, and to a producer and a camera guy. And, yeah, we arrived in his hometown, and we were approached by some Sinaloa sicarios who basically told us that either we would pay because his El Chapo's mother was there. And we wanted to interview the mother because we never thought we were actually going to be able to get there. We thought military or the cartel would stop us, but we actually got to the town, and once we got there, yeah, these big guys with these big guns approached us and said, hey, if you want an interview with El Chapo's mother, you have to pay. And I still believe to this day was this guy on the phone speaking perfect English. The masked guys had given me the phone for this guy, and we believe to this day that he was actually El Chapo's son, Ivan.

Host Bri (27:42)

Wow.

Mariana Van Zeller (27:43)

Yeah. Never been confirmed, but we believe it was him. And this guy told me, basically, either if you're willing to pay for an interview, but as journalists, we don't pay for interviews. And I said, look, we can't pay. And he said, well, mija, you have 10 minutes to get out of my town, or I'm gonna send my. Or my men will basically hurt. So we had to get out of town, but and then Sean Penn actually interviewed El Chapo with Kate Del Casillo, the Mexican actress, about a month and a half after I was there in the same area. And it was partly why Chap ended up being arrested and detained was because of Sean Penn. They were tracking him, essentially. So he scooped me. Sean Penn scooped me. But that's the person that I would love to interview. He's now in federal prison. And hopefully one day I'll be able to.

Host Bri (28:32)

Yeah, maybe you'll get your moment. I mean, it's crazy. I just. I. Wow. I don't know how you have enough courage to do it. Like, when you say goodbye to your family, does it sometimes. Do you guys have to give longer goodbyes? Because, like, to go into cartel country, I'd be like, no, thank you. Be terrified.

Mariana Van Zeller (28:48)

Yeah. No.

Host Nikki (28:49)

My.

Mariana Van Zeller (28:49)

My husband is a journalist as well. We started doing this kind of work together. We traveled all around the world, and then we had a son, and we decided that it probably wasn't a good idea to travel together. So now he does his own work. We own a production company here in LA together, but he does his own documentaries and I do mine. We are very much part of each of each other's, but we don't travel together. But it's funny. A funny story about my husband is we've been. We covered the opiate crisis for many years together, and it was one. We had one opportunity of going down to Sinaloa and finally film a fentanyl lab, which took years. And I wasn't sure if we were going to be able to do it, but we did. We got access to it. I was so excited. I'm down in Sinaloa and I call my husband. I tell him, okay, we got it, we got it. But these are the ground rules. They're going to come in the middle of the night. They are going to put a blindfold on me, and they're going to drive me to an unknown location without a cell phone, without way of communicating with you. And I have no idea when I'll be able to come back. What do you think?

Host Nikki (29:50)

Oh, my gosh. And what did you say?

Host Bri (29:54)

Whoa.

Mariana Van Zeller (29:55)

Okay, Just make sure the camera team is filming you when the cartel match Made in Heaven. I love this guy.

Host Nikki (30:05)

Oh, my God. That's amazing.

Host Bri (30:07)

I mean, I just. I can't.

Host Nikki (30:09)

I can't even imagine. So cute. I mean, that is actually really cute because I just. When you see people that are like, okay, that's why they're meant to be

Host Bri (30:17)

together, make sure you film the blind.

Host Nikki (30:19)

Well, how's your son with all that?

Mariana Van Zeller (30:21)

He's good. He's 15 years old. I've been doing this work for the past 20 something years, so he was born into it. He's very used to it. His friends are all big fans of Traffic and the Hidden Third, the podcast. They actually give me notes and like, message me on things they think or people they think I should interview, which is great.

Host Nikki (30:39)

That does.

Mariana Van Zeller (30:40)

And he's good. He's used. He's really used to it. I mean, sometimes he has questions for me about safety and of course I don't want to be hurt. I don't want any of my team to be hurt. So we don't go into any story or any of our trips thinking that there is a high risk level, and we really try to minimize that risk.

Host Bri (30:58)

That's awesome.

Mariana Van Zeller (30:59)

So. So, yeah, so that's how we. We mentalize it all.

Host Nikki (31:02)

Yeah. Do you think you'll follow in your

Host Bri (31:03)

footsteps and your husband?

Mariana Van Zeller (31:06)

Well, you know, he's. He's a teen, and at this age, they want to do everything except what their parents are doing.

Host Nikki (31:11)

True.

Mariana Van Zeller (31:12)

Very true. Place. Right. So he's. He's really into music right now. He's a really good writer, and I think there's a good chance he'll be a journalist. But right now he's trying to carve out his own. His own space.

Host Nikki (31:24)

Yeah. Gosh, I love it.

Host Bri (31:25)

You know, I feel like women always ask us, and I would love to ask you, you know, you are a mother, you're a wife, CEO, journalist.

Host Nikki (31:32)

How do you balance it all?

Mariana Van Zeller (31:35)

It's not easy. It really isn't easy. I mean, particularly when I'm in production, I'm constantly traveling. I think the. To me, the secret. And I have a really strong connection with my son, and I've had many conversations about my sense with him. And he tells me repeatedly that he. He sometimes he has a. An interesting way of dealing with it where he tells stories, thinking that I was there, and then he remembers, oh, wait, right, you weren't there, Mom. So it hasn't impacted the way or negatively in a way.

Host Nikki (32:06)

Right.

Mariana Van Zeller (32:06)

I'm very proud of that. And I think that the secret, and we talk about this often, is that when I am here and when we are together, I'm very present. I'm very. I spend time asking him all sorts of questions about his relationships, his school, his first girlfriend. And from an early age, I've always created that space, and I think that's really helped. So his first girlfriend, the first person he told Was me. All these first things that have happened in his life, he's come to me first. And I'm very proud of having created this space with him. So I think it's being present.

Host Nikki (32:45)

Yeah, I agree. That's such. That's so good to say. It was yesterday. So I've had my son, I'm divorced, so we co parent and I have one son and that. And I'm a one and done. And he, he was home sick the past few days. And so it was funny last night when I was in bed and he was at his dad's last night, I just kept thinking he was there when I had to work, but I had to work, so. Because he wasn't at school. But I couldn't stop thinking like, oh, when I get him back this week, I just need to be back to being present. Because that's what I realized with him is when I'm with him and I'm so present, it doesn't. He doesn't think about the days he's not with mom because he remembers, like, oh, we were doing those cool things on the playground or we were building the planes or. And so I've realized that, that being present is so key with them. They don't remember the times you're gone.

Mariana Van Zeller (33:36)

Total. Absolutely. And also I would say sharing a part of you, so. So from an early age I would start telling him stories about my work and what I was sad about or excited about. And the more you share about yourself, the more than they're willing to share about themselves too. Right? That's great advice. Really important as well.

Host Bri (33:57)

I so agree. I mean, my husband and I, we've taken it old school, I swear, with our kids, like making, planning family bike rides and board game nights. Like, my son is 5, but he is so good at board games. And like, we all get into it. I don't just let my kids win. I'm like in to win, but they'll like beat me. But you know, we just realize, like, we all tell stories during the board games. We laugh. It's like just putting everything away and just being present. So I love that you say that because you know, someone like me who gets my kids out every day, you can easily become unpresent and be kind of a ghost in the house. But it's true when you're present.

Mariana Van Zeller (34:33)

But even that, I mean, even playing games, like our lives get so busy, right, that the last thing you want to do sometimes when you get tired is play games. But even those like moments that you're Just there. You're just listening. You're just present. Yeah, they're just there. Makes such a difference.

Host Bri (34:49)

Gosh, I know.

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Host Nikki (35:43)

Well, before we get some inspiration affirmation from you, this just popped up in my head. In your industry, who would you say is more dangerous, women or men?

Mariana Van Zeller (35:53)

Huh? Definitely men. You know, and that's why the majority of the time I spend interviewing men with masks. Definitely in my industry or in black markets, but the industry that I cover, it's definitely men that are more dangerous and the women that are often the victims. And also, quite frankly, women are the usually the ones that are the strongest and the bravest in these worlds because they're the ones who pick up the pieces when they're. When the men up.

Host Bri (36:25)

Right?

Host Nikki (36:25)

Gosh, it's so true. I feel like that one movie

Mariana Van Zeller (36:30)

I'm

Host Nikki (36:31)

gonna know, Sophia Vergada played that one woman. Yes.

Mariana Van Zeller (36:35)

Yeah. Where she's the cartel boss. Yes. You want to mess with her?

Host Bri (36:38)

Yeah, totally.

Mariana Van Zeller (36:40)

It was amazing.

Host Nikki (36:41)

That was amazing. She so had her together and then like even to raise wild boys like that too. And you were just like, man, women bosses, don't mess with them, you know? Mariana, this has been so amazing. And before we let you go, we always love to leave our listeners with a little bit of inspiration affirmation. Is there any quote you live by you want to share? Mantra? Anything?

Mariana Van Zeller (37:04)

I'll say this. Having spent my the past 20 years covering these really dark and dangerous worlds and talking to the people that we consider the bad guys. One thing I realize is that more often than not, it is a lack of opportunities and inequality that exists in the world that leads people to this life of crime. And that I hope that that is a great conversation starter, not only about the gigantic inequality that exists today, but also about our own lives and the Opportunities that we've been given and what are we doing with our own lives and those opportunities to make the world a better place.

Host Nikki (37:45)

Gosh, that's amazing and so true. I. I feel like I've realized more than ever, especially in the past five years or more, that people are exhausted and people have a lot of people to take care of. And then there's health care, and then people turn to do things because they're surviving. And how can ones that have so much, how can we help the ones that are just trying to make it through a day or have kids to take care of or themselves and. Yeah, absolutely. It is.

Mariana Van Zeller (38:18)

You guys are so inspirational for so many women. I mean, I think your contribution is very clear.

Host Nikki (38:23)

Yeah.

Host Bri (38:23)

Oh, thank you. That means a lot.

Host Nikki (38:25)

That does. It's very sweet.

Host Bri (38:27)

But I do agree with you. I feel like a lot of people complain and it's like, just get up and do it. If you want to see change, change, make that first step. So I agree. I so agree with you. Well, Mariana, this was amazing, everyone. Mariana Van Zeller. She has her podcast out, the Hidden Third podcast. It is incredible. So please tune in. You can get it wherever you get your podcast. And what's your Instagram handle?

Mariana Van Zeller (38:53)

Mariana Veezy. And I'm on Instagram and on Tick Tock and Facebook and all the things. Nice.

Host Bri (39:01)

Okay. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. And happy Women's History Month.

Host Nikki (39:05)

Yes.

Mariana Van Zeller (39:05)

Awesome. You guys too, was so great.

Host Nikki (39:08)

Yeah, you as well.

Host Bri (39:09)

Thank you.

Mariana Van Zeller (39:10)

Thank you.

Host Nikki (39:11)

Wow. What an incredible conversation.

Host Bri (39:13)

Incredible.

Host Nikki (39:14)

And she is so interesting.

Host Bri (39:15)

It is so interesting and empowering. Yeah. Because everything she has done, I could never do.

Host Nikki (39:21)

I'd be too scared to do beyond. I mean, even how cute. I love, like, the story she shared with her and her husband. Like, this is what I'm gonna go do. And he's like, okay, great. Make sure to have the cameras on

Host Bri (39:31)

when they blindfold you. Like, that's the big spot. Like, I know, but I think, you

Host Nikki (39:35)

know, know, I love everything she does and how she's conquered a male dominated industry. Her fearlessness, her bravery. And what I also though, love about it, and this is why I love strong women so much, it's the empathy that they bring to things. There's. I. What I tend to feel with women especially who are breaking barriers or paving their own path, is there's always such a meaning to it.

Mariana Van Zeller (40:02)

Right.

Host Nikki (40:02)

You know, she really wants you to see these stories and get to know the people and the whys. And I find that so incredible. She's opened up my Eyes so much of, like, understanding, not having judgment, the good and the bad in people. And how do we understand this? So, you know, we could get to a place to help prevent the bad. And not a lot of people are willing to do that, man or woman. So I just. I absolutely loved everything should have saying, you got to see this real side of her. And I think what she's doing and what she has done is just absolutely incredible and inspiring, for sure.

Host Bri (40:34)

And I think it shows you, too, that you really have to find what makes your heartbeat and what makes Mariana's heartbeat doesn't make mine. Like, we, you know, we clearly both have different passions, and that's what it's like. We all need to find that, like, purpose makes you get, like, get excited, get going, you know? And I love that.

Host Nikki (40:55)

Well, you know how I feel. I feel, you know, God has put us all here. We all have our purpose, and we just have to go find that. And you will. You stay open and you will feel it. You will see it. It comes.

Host Bri (41:06)

And she definitely found it.

Host Nikki (41:07)

Yes. I'm definitely going to be diving into her podcast, because even just I was looking on her social media and all of her stuff.

Host Bri (41:15)

Well, I want to go see the Anna Delvey episode.

Mariana Van Zeller (41:17)

Yeah.

Host Bri (41:17)

I was seeing clips from it, and I'm like, oh, I'd be into this.

Host Nikki (41:20)

So many people. Just the one guy that was like, yeah, I broke into Microsoft 10 times already this month. Like, what? Like, it's wild.

Host Bri (41:29)

But how does someone's brain work like that? Because when you've seen it in movies, it looks like genius. So many numbers and letters.

Host Nikki (41:35)

And I just look at Mateo with planes and the certain things he does that I just don't understand, or the way he builds Legos. My mind does not work in that way. It's just I'm not an engineer, and we watch, you know, the different engineering engineers on YouTube. Mark, I'm gonna rubber Ruber, who now Netflix has. And, you know, his is for kids who have engineer minds. And when I sit watch the videos from Tail, I'm like, that's not me. No, it's just not how I'm programmed. I'm programmed in a different way, but that's what makes the world go round, and that's what's so fun. So.

Host Bri (42:07)

But at the end of the day, guess what?

Host Nikki (42:09)

What?

Host Bri (42:09)

We all love vino.

Host Nikki (42:11)

We all love vino.

Host Bri (42:12)

You know?

Host Nikki (42:13)

I mean, it goes all the way back to the. You know, to Jesus and the royals and then the monks. Well, I mean, the monks are the ones who pretty much created champagne. But hey, this has been from like beginning to time.

Host Bri (42:24)

Yeah, no, let's all come together, everyone. Some food and drink some wine.

Host Nikki (42:29)

Just end it with a glass of bonita. Bonita or bubbles. We should send actually our bubbles and all be good. Well everyone make sure again to check out Mariana Van Zeller on all her social media pages as well as please check out her podcast. And then if you haven't watched any of her series, make sure. I'm sure Hulu's still streaming it. And now I remember seeing it everywhere. They won Emmys. Yeah. Incredible shows. So. Yes. So make sure to tune in and our month will continue with more amazing women like Mariana. Inspiring women, empowering women. We have an incredible lineup this month, so make sure you subscribe. Like tune in every Monday and Thursday because you never know showing up.

Host Bri (43:09)

That's right.

Mariana Van Zeller (43:10)

All right.

Host Nikki (43:11)

Happy, happy. Women's History Month. See you all next time.

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Mariana Van Zeller (44:09)

I'm just excited for McDonald's for a limited time only.

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