Trust Your Gut with Annie Elise

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nikki & Brie Show – "Trust Your Gut with Annie Elise"

Episode Overview

In the episode titled "Trust Your Gut with Annie Elise," hosted by Nikki and Brie Garcia of The Nikki & Brie Show on SiriusXM, the hosts engage in a profound and insightful conversation with true crime podcaster Annie Elise. Released on March 17, 2025, this episode delves deep into Annie’s journey into the true crime genre, her motivations, the emotional challenges she faces, and her perspectives on the justice system. The discussion is both heartfelt and thought-provoking, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the world of true crime storytelling and its impact on both creators and audiences.

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1. Introduction to Annie Elise

The episode begins with Nikki and Brie expressing their excitement about welcoming Annie Elise, a prominent figure in the true crime community known for her podcast Seriously, with Annie Elise and her YouTube series 10 to Life.

• Nikki [01:00]: "We are so excited to have you on the podcast and pick your brain."

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2. Annie Elise’s Journey into True Crime

Annie shares the serendipitous path that led her into the true crime niche. Her passion ignited from a young age, influenced by watching shows like Dateline and 60 Minutes with her sister. The onset of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 was a pivotal moment that steered her from a career in fashion trend forecasting to full-time true crime storytelling.

• Annie Elise [02:28]: "Honestly, it's kind of random and happened by chance. I've been into true crime for as long as I can remember."

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3. Mission to Amplify Victims’ Voices

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Annie’s commitment to ensuring that victims receive the attention they deserve, rather than perpetrators. She emphasizes the importance of providing a comprehensive understanding of victims’ lives to foster empathy and awareness.

• Annie Elise [04:24]: "We want to give a full understanding of who the victim was. Let their voice continue to be heard and raise awareness."

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4. Deep Dives into Notable Cases

Annie discusses her approach to covering high-profile cases, such as the Gabby Petito story and the Ruby Frankie case. She highlights her efforts to uncover overlooked details and present nuanced perspectives that mainstream documentaries may miss.

• Annie Elise [05:41]: "When I choose what cases I'm talking about, I want to make sure I'm adding value and not just exploiting the story."

• Nikki [07:57]: "I didn't even know he flew back. I didn't know she was in a hotel for six days."

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5. Challenges of Covering True Crime

The emotional toll of delving into traumatic cases is a recurring theme. Both hosts and Annie acknowledge the difficulty of managing these heavy subjects while maintaining personal well-being. Annie candidly discusses her coping mechanisms, such as seeking solace with her sister and distancing herself from true crime content in her personal time.

• Annie Elise [12:22]: "It's definitely very tough... balancing being a mother and covering these intense cases."

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6. Critique of the Justice System

Annie offers a critical analysis of the justice system, pointing out its shortcomings in adequately protecting victims and ensuring fair trials. She underscores cases where systemic failures have led to unsatisfactory outcomes, emphasizing the need for reform.

• Annie Elise [22:24]: "The system is failing people; we need to get better resources."

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7. The Menendez Brothers Case

The discussion touches upon the infamous Menendez brothers case, where Annie provides her perspective on the complexities surrounding motive and justice. She reflects on the interplay between familial abuse and financial motivations in criminal acts.

• Annie Elise [15:24]: "Back when all this happened with them, child sexual abuse was something that was never really talked about."

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8. Balancing Personal Life and True Crime Work

Annie opens up about the struggle to separate her professional work from her personal life, particularly as a mother. She admits the difficulty in completely "turning off" from the content she covers, leading to intrusive thoughts and heightened awareness of potential dangers.

• Annie Elise [17:33]: "I wish I had an answer for how to decompress. I have a way of shutting that part out."

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9. Future Projects and Goals

Looking forward, Annie shares her aspirations to expand her storytelling through documentaries and potential television projects. She expresses enthusiasm about continuing to provide in-depth coverage and support to victims’ families.

• Annie Elise [31:48]: "Working on some documentaries with families and cases I've covered in the past... some exciting projects."

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10. Inspirational Takeaway: Trust Your Gut

As the episode concludes, Annie imparts a powerful piece of advice to listeners: trusting one’s intuition. She emphasizes the importance of believing in one’s instincts as a form of self-protection and empowerment.

• Annie Elise [32:39]: "Always trust your gut, trust your instincts and your intuition, because that truly is your first line of defense."

• Nikki [33:10]: "The times I didn't trust my gut, I failed myself 100%."

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Conclusion

The episode "Trust Your Gut with Annie Elise" offers an in-depth exploration of the true crime genre through the lens of a dedicated storyteller. Annie Elise’s dedication to amplifying victims' voices, coupled with her critical view of systemic flaws in the justice system, provides listeners with both awareness and inspiration. Her heartfelt insights and commitment to meaningful storytelling make this episode a compelling listen for true crime enthusiasts and those interested in the complexities of justice and personal resilience.

Key Quotes:

• Annie Elise [04:24]: "We want to give a full understanding of who the victim was."
• Annie Elise [05:41]: "I want to make sure I'm adding value and not just exploiting the story."
• Annie Elise [12:22]: "It's definitely very tough... balancing being a mother and covering these intense cases."
• Annie Elise [32:39]: "Always trust your gut... it truly is your first line of defense."

Listeners are encouraged to check out Annie Elise’s work:

• Podcast: Seriously, with Annie Elise
• YouTube Series: 10 to Life
• Social Media: Instagram and TikTok @AnnieElise_

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About the Hosts

Nikki and Brie Garcia bring their charismatic and candid hosting style to every episode, creating an engaging environment that feels like a conversation with best friends. Their genuine interest in diverse topics and guests makes The Nikki & Brie Show a beloved staple for listeners seeking laughter, inspiration, and authentic connections.

Transcript

[Nikki]

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Off devices early, CT mobile.com I mean, come on.

[Nikki]

I mean big time. Come on. Yeah, like, it's absolutely ridiculous. This is the Nikki and Bri Show. All right, everyone, welcome back to the Nick, Nikki and Briso and Nikki and I are so excited for today's episode. We already, our brains are working like crazy. We have so many questions for our next guest. You are going. You were just in for a treat. You're gonna love this one. So we are lucky enough to have Annie Elise on the podcast today. She has her own podcast that I know a lot of you listen to. Serial Serialist Lee. I think I nailed it. I think you nailed it. We all know I have a hard time with S's, so that was like nls and L's. That was a big moment for me. Yeah.

[Announcer]

Wasn't perfect, but it was, you know, really good.

[Nikki]

Right?

[Announcer]

Nine out of ten.

[Nikki]

Brie. I know. You know, with Annie Elise, she also has a YouTube series, 10 to Life on YouTube and she has Instagram and Tick Tock at Underscore. Annie Elise and Annie, thank you so much for coming on the Nikki and Bri Show.

[Announcer]

Yes.

[Annie Elise]

Hi. You're welcome. Thanks so much for having me.

[Nikki]

Yes, we are so excited to talk to you. We've actually never had anyone who deals with true crime or dissects it or anything like that on our podcast. But Nikki and I are very into it. So to be able to have you on the podcast and pick your brain, we're so excited. But you know, we have to ask you what made you want to get into true crime, telling these stories and finding these stories and being able to have a podcast. Your TikTok's fascinating. I love your TikTok, by the way. Your Instagram, like, telling these stories. What made you want to get into it?

[Annie Elise]

Honestly, it's kind of random and happened by chance. Like, I've been into true crime for as long as I can remember. Probably too young, if I'm being honest, watching, like, Dateline, 60 Minutes, all of these different documentaries. And my sister and I were very close, as you guys are not twins, but very close. And we would have, like, our Dateline Fridays where we'd literally get froyo. We would watch Dateline and we would talk about things. And so I was living in New York back in 2020, and I was in the fashion industry doing trend forecasting. And then when Covet hit, all the factories shut down. Everything was just put paused. That's also right when TikTok first started coming out. And I just felt like I needed to fill my days with something. And I don't have hobbies. Like, I just don't. I'm not somebody who, like, works out. I don't have, like, knit. I just have no hobbies. So all I do is really watch true crime documentaries. So my husband was like, well, why don't you, like, just start talking about some of these cases that bother you and that you have questions about. And I was like, okay. So I just literally turned my phone on, started having conversations with the Internet as though I was talking with my sister after a Dateline episode. Just kind of talking about the red flags I see when I did a deep dive into their social media, what I found, because I felt like with a lot of the stuff out there, it's very topical and almost the delivery is somewhat clinical, where it's like, I want to know all the details. Like, I'm nosy. I want to know everything about it. So I started talking about these cases, and it just skyrocketed. And so a few years into it, I was juggling both fashion and doing tick tock and YouTube. And then I quit, pursued true crime full time, started the podcast, and here I am.

[Nikki]

Wow.

[Announcer]

Wow, that's so cool.

[Nikki]

It's so incredible. And, you know, I read that you. A big part of you doing this is that you want to give the victims the kind of like their. Their voice being heard. Like, you feel like sometimes the murderers. I hate saying that. Are sometimes get more the spotlight and that you want to give the spotlight to the victims, which I literally gave me Goosebumps when I was reading that.

[Annie Elise]

It's true. It's. I feel like so many times, whether it's a series, a documentary, or even now all of these series that are being remade on Netflix, the perpetrator is platformed and people are more fascinated with them. And then the victim's voice, it just gets lost in it and you don't really think know about where did they go to school, what were their friendships like, what was their favorite color, their hobby? And so when we do our coverage over, on whether it's YouTube or the podcast, we want to just like give you a full understanding of who the victim was. Let their voice, as you said, allow to continue to be heard and raise awareness hopefully so that other people don't end up a potential victim in the future.

[Announcer]

Right. I see. And I love that the, the raising awareness. And it's so crazy because that is what one of the things I have found the beauty in TikTok is. It's brought out these like amazing detectives and what they figure out when it either it's public court cases that we're watching or documentaries. I love how you all are finding the holes and gaps in it or bringing raising awareness and also giving the victims a voice and being like, look, this is who this person is. I have a question. What are, what are some of the most questions people like will DM you about or tune into the YouTube, like, do you get a lot of questions about these different series?

[Annie Elise]

Absolutely. I. One of the ones that I just most recently had so many DMS about was of course the Gabby Petito story, because that was. Everybody had talked about it for years, of course, but then Netflix just dropped their. I think it was a three part docu series on it. And we. I had covered that case quite a bit. But another point for me, whenever I choose what cases I'm talking about, I want to make sure I'm adding value to them some way and not just explain exploiting the story or trying to, you know, platform the salacious details. And so I had covered Gabby, but not in a big way only because I was like, there's so much coverage out there. I don't think that I can give a different perspective. But then when this Netflix series doc dropped, I was like, wait a minute, they're leaving out a lot of key information which so many people don't know is that when after the Moab incident that was caught on the body cam footage, Brian actually flew home to Florida for six days before returning to Salt Lake City. And during that Six day window, Gabby was at a hotel, hotel alone. And that's when she started reaching out to her ex, which we did here on the docu series. And when she started putting a plan in place to leave, he got home or I'm sorry, he returned to Salt Lake one day after she sent that text message. So what I had talked about when I did this new episode is we talk a lot about not only giving them a voice, but how can people prepare to leave dangerous situations. How can you as a friend be supportive for people in those situations or know what signs to look for. So in situations like that, it's like he came home one or came back one day after she sent that message saying she was putting a plan in place. She really didn't have an opportunity to fully execute it. He was back, he was interface. He was probably, I believe, going through her phone. And I think that ultimately was the catalyst and what ended up happening just a couple of days later. But I think that had she had a little more time on her own then maybe there would have been a different outcome. So talking about things like that, and that was one of the most requested ones recently to answer your question because everybody's like why aren't they talking about this piece of information or this detail over here? And so I try to do like the deep dives into everything so that you have all the information.

[Announcer]

I love that. And why do they leave stuff like that?

[Nikki]

I was going to say cuz I watched the documentary just last week and I didn't know a lot of information but I was fascinated by the story. So I watched the three part series and I didn't even know that. I didn't know he flew back. I didn't know she was in a hotel for six days.

[Annie Elise]

I know, I think sometimes they leave it out. I don't know if it's. I mean of course the most obvious answer with a lot of these documentaries is the time constraint. And so they feel like with interviews and other pieces of information in that that might take priority. I also noticed that with the recent Ruby Frankie documentary. But I think too there's another part of it where maybe they don't feel it's as important to the storytelling or that it could possibly be construed as then an opportunity for victim blaming because I would imagine if that was included some of the talk and conversation could potentially go in the direction of well, she was away from him for six days, why didn't she leave? She had the opportunity which it's like unless you know that and have been in a situation like that. It's like, it's not that easy. That's not how it works. And so it might be better in situations like that to where you exclude that information so that. That isn't the narrative that gets spun.

[Nikki]

Oh, that's actually. I didn't even think of that. And people would do that because everyone always thinks they know what they would do best in that situation. It's like, you don't know until you're in it. And it really opened up my eyes. The cops, their body cams. That whole situation rubbed me the wrong way. It.

[Annie Elise]

It was horrible.

[Nikki]

It was horrible. And I was like, I can't even believe. Like, this could have been a turning point and change the I. And maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it could have changed so much for her if the cops handled that situation differently. I almost had to turn it off because I'm like, I can't even watch this because I've seen women in this situation so many times. And it just. And seeing him, like, kind of laugh and make some comments and calling her crazy.

[Annie Elise]

I know. I agree. And she was terrified. You could tell whether she was the aggressor or not, as they labeled her. It's like she was shaking, she was trembling, she was scared. She was talking about how he doesn't believe in her. Anyone with two eyes and a brain could see what was going on in that situation. And even if she was admitting to being the aggressor, then it's my opinion they should have arrested her and put her in jail. And then maybe she would have reached out to her parents and they would have separated that way. But it's like they just kind of did the bare minimum from what I was seeing and siding with him, laughing with him. Like, he's calling her crazy and they're laughing. It's just. It was disgusting. It was truly disgusting.

[Nikki]

And I was like, someone called and saw him slapping her. It's like, exactly. You know, I'm like, that is. A person didn't call because he knows them and he wants to get the guy in trouble. He had zero recollection who they were. He saw it. He felt it was dangerous, so he called the cops. And I'm like, how was that not a big. I don't know. I can go on forever with that. But, like, how is that not a big thing when the cops are talking about everything?

[Announcer]

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[Nikki]

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[Nikki]

And it must like because you give so much detail and you dissect these true crime stories, is it hard on you because you know, like you must like really get into it and then feel so bad for the victim.

[Annie Elise]

Yeah, it's definitely very tough. Especially because not only just how deep this content goes, I'm a mother as well. I have two young kids, a three and a half and a five year old. And so a lot of these cases that involve children too are especially hard. It's like how you can just pull yourself away for a moment to then be present with your family. It can be very challenging, but at the end of the day and it sounds so cheesy and so cliche, so I'm just going to throw that ahead of time. But it's like I know that it's making a difference and that the families are appreciative of the coverage. I've had families not only reach out to me after an episode, but reach out asking me to cover their loved one's case. There is an event which is so crazy but it's called Crimecon. It's kind of like a comic con where it's all, you know, NBC, comes, Dateline, all these different platforms. And I've had families come up and say, like, thank you so much for your coverage, or how do you get that specific detail? They didn't even talk about that in the courtroom, and it wasn't in the documents. How'd you find that out? And so knowing that they appreciate it and that it's. There's value there. It's almost like I just try to, like, muster up whatever. I don't even know if you would say strength or what it is to just like, to. To share these stories and be the voice for them. And then I always say that if we can at least hear or say what these victims went through, which is a fraction of what they went through, it's like, the least we can do is hear about it then and he allow their story to carry on. If they're the ones who had to experience this.

[Announcer]

Totally. And I think it definitely. Strength on your part, as well as bravery. I think it's incredible that you do this for the victims and their families. And it. It's neat in life when you find your purpose. And it's crazy sometimes how that comes about, like the pandemic and you were in fashion, and then this came here, and. And you do realize it. It is needed. These things need to be heard. And what I love, what you do on top of it all is just raising the awareness and taking that extra step. Because all growing up, like, Brie and I have always been so aware about things, but, like, when I had my girlfriends and even how they would walk to their car alone, and I. I'm like, wait, where's your spray? Where, like, you walk up straight, look around, have keys in between your fingers. Like, I just remember, like, there are so many people in this world that are not aware of how they should be or their surroundings and.

[Nikki]

Exactly.

[Announcer]

I. I do. I have one question about a case that the world fell in love with this past year, the Menendez brothers. Did you cover that?

[Annie Elise]

I did a little bit. Not in a deep dive, because, again, I was like, I don't know what lens I can necessarily put on this that makes it different from what everybody's heard. But I am very well versed in the case, and I have a lot of thought.

[Announcer]

Are they, like. I mean, I don't even know really what I'm going to be asking, but.

[Nikki]

Guilty or not guilty?

[Announcer]

Yeah, I guess pretty much like the. I Understand, you know, with the parents. And, like, then you have, you know, other people come out about their dad, like, since the case. And so it. It's so hard on knowing, like, how to feel about them. Right.

[Nikki]

I didn't watch it.

[Annie Elise]

I agree. I. I agree. And that's kind of where I. I sit. I'm very torn because back when all this happened with them, child sexual abuse was something that was never really talked about, especially when it had to do with little boys or with parents and their children. It was just more of a taboo topic. So it's like, people weren't educated on it. They weren't hearing much about it. But then. So there's no doubt that I think some abuse was definitely taking place inside that home. Not that that necessarily excuses a double murder. I think that there are other ways they could have gone about it. I also think, too, that when you look at the pattern of their spending history right after the deaths and their behavior, again, everyone reacts differently in situations like that and grieves differently. But it kind of looked more as though this was financially motivated rather than retaliation for abuse. I'm not saying that wasn't abuse. And I know that there was a letter, too, that was written to a cousin confiding in this, which was after the fact. So I'm kind of of the. I sit where it's like, you know, if they end up being released, I think they've done their time. I don't think that they are a threat or a danger to society anymore at this point. But do I think that they should have maybe never been charged or. I don't think so. I think that unfortunately, a lot of people I see daily go through situations like this. And there are other methods of escape and getting out of these situations. Not a double murder and then spending, you know, 700 grand or whatever it was within 48 hours.

[Announcer]

I mean, it's wild. Yeah, that's. That's great insight.

[Nikki]

I think that's where everyone felt torn is because it's like you felt one way because you think all these sweet little boys and what happened to them, which could have caused the mental, you know, dysfunction. But at the same time, you're like. But, I mean, you walk through the door, you blow your parents away. Like, that's a different thing, you know, So I. I felt so torn in that. And, you know, to go back when you were talking about, because you are a mom and being a wife, what is it that you do to decompress or kind of be able to get yourself out of the energy of doing true crime and then the energy of being a mom and a wife.

[Annie Elise]

Honestly, I wish I had an answer for that. And I think that is probably one of the most asked questions I get is, how do you turn it off? And I don't think I do it in a healthy way. I'm just gonna be honest. Like, I have a way of knowing how to compartmentalize and just, like, kind of shut things down. So when I go home, that's what I do. You know, I'll watch tv. I'll watch reality tv. I kind of just like go in my own zone. I'll doom scroll. And I just have a way of shutting that part of it out. I also find myself not really watching true crime anymore unless it's for research. Whereas before I did watch it more for. I don't want to say entertainment, because that's the wrong way to describe it, but just how normal people would watch a Dateline, like, out of interest. And so I don't find myself doing that. I feel like I consume enough of that content as it is. So I just try to kind of do. Yeah. Brainless, mindless things that help me just go to a different place.

[Nikki]

Oh, I get that.

[Annie Elise]

I watch the Traders. I love the Traders. Derek's a friend, so really love that.

[Nikki]

That's amazing.

[Announcer]

Derek is so sweet. Yeah. Another detective, right? Yeah, it was. We had such a great season. It was.

[Annie Elise]

It was really good. You guys did great.

[Announcer]

Oh, thank you.

[Nikki]

Yeah, everyone was.

[Announcer]

And became so close, so it's like they wanted, I think, a lot more drama, but, like, everyone honestly became friends our season, which was really nice.

[Nikki]

Yeah. Well. And I have to say, what. When you pick your true crimes that you're covering, is it because something stands out to you? Is it the victim that stands out to you? Is it the situation of the crime? What is.

[Annie Elise]

Really depends. So a lot of the times it's because we're getting a lot of requests. So people are like, we want to know more about this breaking case. It's happening right now. What can you find out? We want to hear about it. So sometimes that's why we'll cover a case. A lot of other times, too, it's a victim or a family member themselves reaching out. We have a case submission tab on the website right now. I think we're just. From the start of the year, we're at like 1500 submissions of different cases that people want us to cover. A lot of them that happen. Things happen to them directly. And again, it's like, if I can look at it a different way or deliver it a different way, or if there's more information, then that's usually when I want to cover it. A great example again is just going back to Ruby. Frankie. There was this huge documentary, the Devil in Our Family, that just released on Hulu I think a week or two ago. And after that I did a deep dive into her because they barely even scratched the surface of what that lunatic did. But then there were so many questions about the husband. Like, okay, the husband went away from the family for a year. He wasn't there watching her abuse his kids. Even before that, he was complicit. They had like an. A family vlogging channel and they would advertise on this channel like their punishments for their kids. Taking their bed away, the door off the hinges, making the child sleep on a bean bag when the six year old forgot her, forgot their lunch at home, made them go hungry at school. And like they documented this and were proud about this and put it out on the Internet. And so when this documentary came out about Ruby, people were like, well, why is he getting off scot free? Even though he wasn't directly tied to the abuse, when they found the kids that he knew what was going on, he enabled Ruby, he allowed this. So then today, actually I released a huge deep dive just on Kevin and contradicted a lot of his statements from the interview because I have that original footage from stuff that he put out there publicly where it's like, no, you don't get to come in now and play like you want to just have custody of your children. That Ruby was the bad guy. You also were equally a part of this seeing out.

[Announcer]

Yes. And you know what kind of trips me out about that and is I'm so happy by the way that you're doing that with the dad because I've always felt the same way. Like, how are you just letting this happen to your kids? But also think of those viewers who would watch them talk about the discipline to their kids. Like, how did no one report that ever? Right, right.

[Nikki]

Well, do you feel it all?

[Announcer]

Like, I wanted to hear your thing.

[Annie Elise]

I was it. Some people do report. Some people call cps. And a lot of people then did you know what I guess you could call like a soft cancellation where they just stopped watching their content and tried to just boycott it that way. But. And a lot of people sometimes will say like, oh, well, they were brainwashed because Jody Hildebrandt, which is the therapist who came in, who I think is a cult Leader. They're like they were brainwashed, but it's like. Yes, but there was also the behavior happening before Jody even entered the picture where he did co. Sign it and where he was okay with it. And it's just. Yeah. How do you even allow that? As a parent, it's your job to be the protector and stop things. So for you to just sit by and then leave for a year knowing that your children are in the hands of your wife and this woman, it's so irresponsible. But now he's coming in as though he's the martyr.

[Nikki]

Right? I mean, do you feel that the justice system does fail a lot of people?

[Annie Elise]

It does. Unfortunately, it does. Not always, but I. I think more times than we would like to believe. I mean, look. Look at Casey Anthony, perfect example. There was absolutely no justice for her daughter, Caitly Anthony, and she was found not guilty. And now it's. And I get it. That's what our system is built on. And you're, you know, you get a defense and you have a fair trial, but where's the justice then for her? And now Casey's back on TikTok, like, trying to say she's a legal advocate. It's like, are you out of your mind?

[Announcer]

It's insane. I couldn't believe.

[Annie Elise]

It's insane.

[Nikki]

Crazy.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Nikki]

Oh, my gosh. It.

[Announcer]

It just bothers me because. And that's why I love what you're doing, is it constantly puts these people, murderers, like, on this pedestal, and it's like, that's not okay.

[Nikki]

No.

[Announcer]

And I get she was found not guilty, but I mean, come on.

[Nikki]

I mean, big time. Come on. Yeah. Like, it's absolutely ridiculous. And I feel like. And, you know, this is just little old me, not educated, but I felt like that the justice system needs to evolve. It's like it hasn't evolved to the modern times. And that's why people like you are so glorified, because you're the modern times. The way you do your detective work, the way you analyze. And I feel like we don't get that. And the one thing, just seeing what you've gone through with certain things in the court systems, it's like it depends what kind of lawyer you have, and it shouldn't be that way.

[Announcer]

Or judge or judge is the biggest. It all depends who your judges, how are they that day? And also what I've come to realize is they bring their personal issues a lot to the table when it comes to family law. And I. I just. What I would love to try to change just from personal experiences is just a bigger fight for our kids and our children. I just feel like, because there are so many cases, you know, divorce is high and abuse, child abuse is high. And I just feel like we don't take the time for each case of like, should this be 50, 50? Should this child ever go back to this parent? Should this child be with either parent? And I feel like, because they're trying to get through so many cases a day, or the judge just doesn't have a personal interest or because they've gone through something, that's where I feel the failure is for children, for even protecting women, you know, and even dads, Whatever the story may be, like anything in family law, it's just from what I've experienced and what I've saw and all these stories that I've heard, I've just been like, oh my gosh, we could have just taken an extra 10 minutes on this case when you're in there and just listen. And that was the one thing that shocked me is like, the lack of, like, hearing both sides or just looking at facts or evidence in front of your face when you're just like, no, it should be like this. This is how we're gonna call it. It's. It's been so eye opening to me, but also, like, really sad because it was also a period of time where I'm like, you're so helpless as a parent, like that once you're in that courtroom, you have no control of your child whatsoever. And whenever that person who is looking at all of us, the judge, they get to decide your child's future, their life, their. Their next moment after, you know, this case is closed or they dismiss us. And that was like, so wild to me. I remember just sitting there, like, almost wanting to faint, like, I have no control of my child.

[Annie Elise]

Yeah, I completely agree. That's such a scary and vulnerable place to be in when it's. That's exactly what it is. It's like you're handcuffed. You have no control over what that outcome is going to be that day. And unfortunately, it's just. There's so. It's so understaffed. There's so few resources, and there's so many cases, like you said, that people either are rushing to make a decision and they're using their own personal bias to make that decision rather than, like, looking at things objectively and coming to whatever the best interest of the child conclusion is. And that's how we get the cases that slip through the cracks too where maybe it's escalated abuse or a situation where a child now has been withdrawn from school and they're being homeschooled and CPS isn't going in and checking on them. And then you know, seven months later like, oh, the last person, any last time somebody had eyes on this child was seven months ago. And now they're missing. And it just. I wish, I wish that there was an answer because I feel like a broken record. I always say the system is failing people, we need to get better resources. But I don't know what that answer is because even if there warmer were more people who were applying to have these positions, it's tough because it's not a great paid position. The benefits aren't fantastic either. So it's not really an appealing position for a lot of people. And so they, you just have these caseworkers and these legal advocates and you know, their stack is so high that they can't get through them all. And it's unfortunately, it's like that's when people start to slip through.

[Nikki]

Yeah, it's like, you know this, all this AI stuff will freak me out but it's like for those type of jobs I'm like, yeah, put a robot in there and like, yeah, you know, like get something that's like, you know, will be on schedule. Do the details. Like it kills me now, you know, because I can't watch this stuff at night because I get nightmares. Do you ever get nightmares from going deep on these stories?

[Annie Elise]

I do, but it's weird not, it's like so weird to say it's like not nightmares when I'm sleeping but like in my day to day it's like I carry it with me and I feel it and like I think, I don't know if it's caused me to have more intrusive thoughts or if I'm just now hyper paranoid about a lot of things, especially with my own kids and what they're exposed to. But I definitely carry it with me all the time. So it's not necessarily like a horror nightmare where I wake up scared, but it's almost like a reality nightmare where I'm fearful of just the state of our world to be quite honest and like, and what people are capable of. Because I have seen just true evil that people out there, even family members, close friends, that they're just evil and they're capable of some of the most atrocious things.

[Nikki]

See that would get me. Now do you call your sister and you're like, like need to Let it when you need to. Let it go.

[Announcer]

We can't wait for Dateline Friday. We gotta chat now.

[Nikki]

Or even, like, even if you're feeling these things, like, these scary things do. Is your sister your outlet, or is it your husband?

[Annie Elise]

It's my sister. My husband, but he. This stuff freaks him out. He's never even listened to a single episode that I've. He. It freaks him out. And so it's my sister. And fortunately, she now works with me. So, like, we're in the same space every day, working together. So I'll just, like, go in her office. I'll be like, I need to just decompress right now. Like, talk me off the ledge, what is happening, you know, and just. She'll bring me back to reality.

[Nikki]

Oh, my God. The beauty of sisters.

[Announcer]

Right? Well, and then. Because how you can investigate so well and, like, just find things that people don't do you have your girlfriends come to you at all? Like, okay, so I'm dating this guy.

[Annie Elise]

You know, all the time.

[Nikki]

Oh, my God, I love it. And do you do it?

[Annie Elise]

Literally, My brother texted me last night, and he's like, hey, can you track who owns this phone number? We're getting weird messages. I was like, I'm on it. I'll try and see what I can come up.

[Announcer]

That is amazing.

[Nikki]

I love that.

[Announcer]

Yes.

[Nikki]

That's actually, you know, we need a friend like that.

[Announcer]

No, we do. I mean, I. Call me anytime you got any more space. I think I might have a new one for you. Have you heard about the guy with the cat coming in the speakeasy looking for me?

[Nikki]

No.

[Announcer]

You haven't heard about this?

[Nikki]

No.

[Announcer]

Emily had to talk to me Saturday.

[Nikki]

Yeah, I might say what's wrong with people? But you would give us a whole list.

[Announcer]

I know. So I don't know if I could hear that too much. Like, I'm aware now I'm aware. Yeah.

[Nikki]

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[Nikki]

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[Nikki]

Devices early ct mobile.com well, Annie, one last question. What does the future look like for you? Any fun projects coming up or anything, you know, going on?

[Annie Elise]

Yeah, still doing everything with the podcast. We have new episodes that come out every Monday and Thursday and it's on all podcast platforms, but working on some documentaries right now with some families and some cases that I've covered in the past where their loved ones unfortunately were killed. So doing some documentaries closely with them, partnering on some potential TV stuff in the future. So some exciting projects. Yeah.

[Nikki]

Oh my gosh, it's great.

[Announcer]

I love that. Keep doing what you're doing. It's so amazing.

[Annie Elise]

Thank you.

[Nikki]

Your work is.

[Annie Elise]

Thank you so much.

[Nikki]

Incredible. And I know that it might bring so much to you in your day to day, but gosh, what you do for so many families and to educate all of us, it's like you really. You hit two birds with one stone.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Nikki]

Like you do a lot. So it's incredible. Before we let you go, we always like to leave our audience with a little inspiration and affirmation. Is there a quote, a mantra or something you live by that you'd like to leave our listeners with?

[Annie Elise]

That's a great question. Yeah. You know what, actually there is something. And I wish that more people would hear this and take this to heart, especially women. But always trust your gut, trust your instincts and your intuition, because that truly is your first line of defense. Your intuition is there to protect you and to shield you. So don't ever feel like you need to apologize for it or that you need to second guess it. Just trust your gut all the time.

[Announcer]

Amen. That is so true.

[Nikki]

And the times I didn't trust my gut, I failed myself 100.

[Annie Elise]

There's so many times where I'm like, no, I'm just being overly paranoid. And then I look back, I'm like, I wish I would have just listened.

[Nikki]

To myself like I was right all the time.

[Announcer]

It's crazy. Every. And I know and it's like. And I know and remember every single moment. Every single moment. Whether it was a business deal as whatever it may be, just in personal life and professional life, every time I have interest in my gut, I'm like, yep, that's right.

[Nikki]

Exactly. Well, thank you so much, Annie for coming on our podcast. We're so excited. And then to all of our listeners, please check out Annie on her podcast, Seriously with Annie Elise. And then you can also see her YouTube series, 10 to Life on YouTube. And she's on Instagram and Tik Tok at Underscore Annie Elise, which you will absolutely love. Well, Anna, you have a great week and we look forward to your new case.

[Annie Elise]

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[Announcer]

Definitely you.

[Annie Elise]

All right, bye.

[Announcer]

Bye.

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