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- [00:01]
A
On this season of Planet Money summer School, we follow the money and not just the dollars. We're following the yuan, the naira, the krona, and more. Every Wednesday this summer, we're taking you on a world tour to meet the people trying new solutions to old economic problems. Planet Money summer school. Grab some friends, pack your bags, and don't forget the sunscreen. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, today we bring you another chance. 2028 candidate draft on the pod. Recently, we ran through some Democrats who may be running in 2028. Today, it's time for the Republicans. Let's get into it.
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B
Love the sound.
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A
It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.
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C
I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.
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B
And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover politics.
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A
It's time now for the Republican round of our first 2028 presidential candidate draft. I feel like I'm trying to sound like Sunday night baseball announcers from my youth, but I feel like I should just. I should just be Miles Parks from npr.
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B
You know, I like Miles on steroids.
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A
So for the complete rules on how this is going to work, people can go, and they should go listen to our Democratic edition of this podcast. But are you guys ready for the Republican side?
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B
Yeah.
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C
Never been ready in my life.
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A
All right, I'm going to hand it over to fantasy draft commissioner and podcast producer Casey Murrell. The first pick in the Republicans draft goes to Miles Parks. Miles, you're on the clock. Too easy. Too easy, guys.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Gotta go with J.D. vance.
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B
All right.
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A
Current Republican vice president.
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C
What a safe choice.
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A
I had no choice. I mean, there's really, I don't know. I'm eager to hear if you guys would have picked someone else in the first pick. But I gotta go, Chuck. Gotta go. Low risk. I mean, I will note, got some numbers here. Brought some numbers here for this. About a third of vice presidents in modern history have gone on to be elected president. So I'm just going with the numbers here. He's a current vice president. Yes. Is the current president unpopular? Yes. But I still think the most likely outcome is that JD Vance wins this nomination. Whether he wins the presidency is another thing, but I'm gonna go with the highest percentage chance of winning that nomination.
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B
Yeah. And I will say that my reporting indicates that, that he has really sort of locked up the Trump digital operation. He has people working for him. No one is allowed to talk about running for president in front of Donald Trump because, you know, you don't do that, but he is doing all of the things, he is making all of the motions. And I just have to say, also, in a year where, as you say, the sitting president is pretty unpopular, we don't know what his popularity will be in two years. It's could certainly change. Lots of things can change. But it could be that there aren't that many people who wanna run for president in a year when they know that the environment is gonna be bad for Republicans. So people who maybe have the most promise, the most political charisma, which I think we could safely say J.D. vance has some political charisma challenges very online. You know, some of the people who maybe have the most political charisma might sit it out thinking they may have a better chance in four years.
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A
I frankly could see him looking at this as a challenge. Even if he's coming out of a position where Trump was unpopular, he's somebody who, it has been talked about ad nauseam, how the things he said about President Trump in private and in public in 2016 and his ability to sort of chameleon out of that and become the vice president in a Trump presidency is amazing. And I think he is somebody who prides himself on his ability to be persuasive. And so I could just see him looking at that as a challenge.
- [03:46]
C
Well, if he loves a challenge, he's got one. Because I do think there are a lot of unknowns about what the Republican base is going to look like without Trump being the standard bearer. What 20, 28 Republican base voters are going to want out of a candidate is a very open question. And I think we're already seeing fractures in the far right, which is where he has positioned himself, which, by the way, is a very small corner of politics. If you are just picking a spot, like pick a middle. But he can't because he's President Trump's vice president. And we're already seeing people like Tucker Carlson try and sort of keep that part of the base still in line with J.D. vance. And I don't know how effective that is. We will see. The other thing is like, well, I've been hearing from voters, he does have a lot of name recognition. And you know what kind of words I hear when people are asked about J.D. vance? Sneaky, conniving, shady. Those are not great words. People know who he is, so he has pretty good name id. But I also hear some not so great words being used about him. Now, people who really, really like Donald Trump, they're probably gonna stick with Vance because he is the standard bearer. But I don't know. I think there is a lot of liability to being connected to Donald Trump. Look at the polling. You know, a lot of voters do not like what this administration is selling, and he is connected to it. And I think the biggest part of it, this war in Iran goes. And he seemingly seems to be more connected to this war than even the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. And I don't know how he comes out of it. So I don't know. I'm like. I know he's like the front runner now, but there is a lot of what ifs, a lot of, I think, fogginess around there.
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B
Yeah, Iran war is very off of his brand. At least what his political brand was coming in, which is he is not an interventionist. And now he is the chief negotiator on a thing that's falling apart.
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A
I keep thinking, though, going back to his debate performance in 2024, and he universally was seen to have kind of wiped the floor with Tim Walls in a way that I think he's probably. I could see his camp and him thinking, just get me on a debate stage with any of these people. These issues are all true. Trump's popularity is true, all this stuff. But if I can just get in a position where I am talking to voters and talking to other candidates, that I have just as good of a shot as anyone.
- [06:05]
C
Yeah, I've heard a line of thinking that he could shore up support among those bros that are sort of apolitical most of the time, like that. Part of the sort of male manosphere, part of the Republican coalition that helped elect Trump in 2024. He seems to be one of the few candidates who could possibly shore that up. Who knows? I mean, I don't know how helpful that will be, but.
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B
Yeah, I just have to say, as a vice president, it is incredibly hard to run against the policies of the administration that you are part of. And it is even harder when the president is. Is Donald Trump who takes things personally and demands ultimate loyalty. And putting separation between yourself and the person who's demanding ultimate loyalty is really tough without being seen as disloyal.
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A
All right, let's move on to the second pick, because I think a lot of these themes are going to be apparent for our second and third picks as well, potentially. Casey, who do we got? The second pick in the Republicans draft goes to Ashley Lopez. Ashley, you're on the clock.
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C
Okay. I'm gonna pick, like, kind of a wild card person again for my first pick, but Marjorie Taylor Greene.
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B
Whoa.
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A
Is the second pick. Yeah, there was, like, an obvious one, too. I was like, the third pick. You can make it.
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B
Yeah.
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C
The obvious one is Marco Rubio.
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A
But.
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C
Okay, hear me out. Hear me out. I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is a decent room reader, and she is watching what has happened on the right. Cause I'm thinking here, primary voters, I sometimes will be like, okay, who would be helpful in a general election to Democrats, but right now, who can, like, really get through a Republican primary? I think it's someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene because she has been consistently anti war and she's reading the room, and she knows that being a congressperson right now is not something you want on your cv. You do not want to have the stink of DC on you right now. She has looked at the far right and said, I don't think a lot of these people are gonna be sticking with the Trump brand. And she is carving out this little part of the party for herself. And I think she won't be getting the big donor. She won't be getting the JD Vance money or maybe the Marco Rubio money if he runs. But I think she could do really well with small donors in the Republican Party. I think she has picked up that the donor class in the Republican Party has not been serving the interests of their base voters. Her stance on Israel is more popular than you would think it'd be in the Republican Party. I mean, that is maybe the one place where it is an open question, where Democratic voters, for sure are souring on Israel. The Republican Party. The numbers aren't quite as dire, but it's moving in that direction. I don't know. I think she's a decent room reader, and this does run against my will. Voters pick a woman. The Republican Party doesn't have as much PTSD about that, I think, than Democratic voters do.
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B
I think my big question is, can a Trump apostate, which she absolutely at this point is. She has completely turned on him. He has turned on her. He's called her Marjorie Traitor Greene. Can she carve up enough of his base? Can she convince enough of his base that she is the true carrier of the MAGA flag? Or does she just. If you're not with Trump, who are you with when you're in the Republican primary?
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C
It's a good question, but it just depends. Like, how.
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B
Depends on Trump's stock value, first of all.
- [09:31]
C
Yeah. His stock value. Especially when it looks like there is nowhere else for him to go. Voters are gonna have to look around and be like, how much does it Serve me to stick with this guy. It's a good, it's an open question.
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A
I think I'm a little confused also on how the Epstein files stuff plays in the Republican primary. Legitimately, I'm like, that was anti Trump, but that was, I think, aligns a lot with how Republican primary voters feel and felt about that issue. And so that I just, I just, I am so eager to see, I guess, how that issue continues playing out in elections.
- [10:05]
C
Like I said, I think she understands the base in a way that I don't even think Trump does.
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A
Who's got the third pick, Casey? The third pick in the Republicans draft goes to Tamara Keith. Tam, you're on the clock.
- [10:17]
B
Well, I have to take Marco Rubio at this point.
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A
Gotta do it.
- [10:19]
B
There is no other option. Secretary of State Marco Rubio ran for president in 2016, was my pick to potentially win in 2015. But you know, then Trump came along. He has done an incredible job of shape shifting himself from someone who was one of the co authors of immigration reform to being fully in line with President Trump. He's also someone who has traditionally felt that, you know, global alliances are important and America's role in the world is, is a dominant one, but one where we have allies, which is in opposition to President Trump's approach to global dealings. And yet he has transformed himself into Donald Trump's Secretary of State. Trump relies on him. He's also Trump's National Security Advisor. Uh, he is incredibly close to Trump, always in the room, uh, and establishment Republicans feel more comfortable with him. And yet he somehow has avoided having the Iran war be entirely his problem.
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A
I do not understand how. I mean, that feels like the most Houdini thing that I have ever seen is to be Secretary of State at a time when the country is at war and have no one associating you with it.
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B
Yes, well, it helps that the President's son in law, Jared Kushner, and the developer turned negotiator, Steve Witkoff, are the ones leading the negotiations, along with J.D. vance. And Secretary of State Marco Rubio is just like flying under the radar. Now, I'm gonna argue against myself, which is I've done a lot of reporting trying to find any sign that Marco Rubio is running for president. And there are no signs that Marco Rubio is running for president. He is, by account of many people I've spoken to, very focused on his four jobs or five jobs or seven jobs. Well, however many jobs President Trump has given him at any moment, um, he is enjoying being Secretary of State. I am told, however, if it looks like, and this is multiple people told me this, if it looks like JD Vance is not performing well, if it looks like there isn't a strong Republican, then if Donald Trump were to say, marco, you gotta run, then he would be willing, but he's not building the infrastructure. It would have to be that the infrastructure was passed to him.
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C
I mean, this is part of the reason I didn't choose him as my number two pick is like, I don't know how much his heart is in it right now. He has had to shape shift so much that I wonder, like, what would his position, what did his pitch about foreign policy even be on the American stage again? I know that, like, I mean, politics is like being Madonna. It's like changing your outfit like, every couple of years to meet the moment. But, like, you know, you know, I don't just. So the. A lot of the core beliefs of Marco Rubio have just like, where are they now?
- [13:15]
A
I don't know. How do you push back on that? Because I feel like if you run for president once, that doesn't just go like. I feel like you have a very specific mentality to even think about that at all. And I don't know that that dies ever completely for somebody who did run at one point.
- [13:28]
C
But, you know, he still is the Secretary of State. So I will say, like, probably his biggest liability is that, like, what is something that across the board, voters hate a lot right now is American foreign policy. And who is the face of it? Literally, it is Marco Rubio. How do you come back from that? That's gonna be a toug.
- [13:42]
B
He is the national Security Advisor and the Secretary of State.
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C
Yeah, yeah. That's the other thing. Like, how much. How much, like, just energy is he going to have to run a campaign when he's also running, like, what, the National Archives, too?
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B
I think they finally handed that off to somebody else. But yes, he has many hats.
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A
This is the most begrudging third pick of all time. This is like when, like, this happens in the NBA sometimes where they make a draft pick and they're like, picking some guy who's playing basketball in Greece. They have no idea if he's ever even going to come back and play in the United States. But, like, just in case he does, we just want to make sure we're on the. We have his rights, basically. That's basically what's happening.
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C
I selfishly handed Tam the hot potato because, like, that was the obvious number two pick. But I was like, you know what I'm going to do wild card again. Why not? You know?
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A
Well, that's the end of our first round. More Republicans in just a moment.
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C
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- [15:33]
A
Hi, it's me, Peter Sagal, host of Wait, Wait, don't tell me. It's summer, and if you want to turn your pool party into a nerd fest, check out our news quiz. We got comedians, we got celebrities, we got games to help you laugh about the week's news. Yeah, that news. It'll be just like we're all hanging out at your backyard barbecue. Listen every week to Wait, Wait, don't tell me on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Commissioner Morell, who has the next pick, the fourth pick in the Republicans draft goes again to Tamara Keith. Tam, you're on the clock.
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B
All right. I am going to just, you know, rebuild the Republican field from 2016. And I am picking Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
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A
Mm.
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C
That was mine.
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B
He is very clearly running for president. If you go with the has a podcast, has opinions on many things.
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A
We have a podcast. Tam, are we running for president?
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B
Yeah.
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C
No.
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B
But Gavin Newsom also has a podcast and he is definitely running for president. So he, I think, is someone who looks in a mirror and sees a president and his 2015. He was, you know, he hung on to the very end there.
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A
He won the Iowa caucuses. People forget that.
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B
Yeah, no, he did. He did. And he hung on. And he was really the last one to drop out. And he is carving out a position on Israel that is in a different place for. From someone like J.D. vance or Tucker Carlson, Ted Cruz is going to sort of the more traditional Republican position of being pro Israel, which also resonates with evangelical voters who are still a really important part of the Republican base. So if you're thinking anyone closely associated with the Trump administration is gonna have trouble, then someone like Ted Cruz can swoop in and say, my hands are clean. I was in the Senate, and I've got president written all over me.
- [17:38]
C
I mean, he was gonna be my number two pick. Because I do think we're talking about the base of the Republican Party. The evangelical base is still. That's the heart of it. And I think there's a lot about Trump that made the evangelical base cover their eyes for a long time. And just, they probably wanna go back home to someone who they, like, have really hung with for a long time. And talking to voters in 2015, like, the reason why Ted Cruz hung in for so long in that primary is that he is really beloved among those voters. Like, there are a lot of really upset people. And look, I was in Texas at the time, so, like, Texas evangelicals in particular were really upset. I heard, like, some really horrible things said about Trump during that time. I mean, I'm sure those people voted for Trump eventually, but, you know, there was a lot of love for Ted Cruz. I think sometimes the national picture of him is that he's like. Like, really disliked. But the core, the base of the Republican Party, they love. They love them. Ted Cruz.
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A
Yeah. It just goes back to the electability thing in terms of. Because he is very disliked by Democrats. And I don't know. I'm not sure how independents feel about him. But I will say that his reelections in Texas have been some of the closer statewide races as well, which is not a great sign for a sort of national electability argument.
- [18:48]
B
Well, he did flee to Cancun in the middle of an ice storm.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Can't imagine if that will come up again if he runs and was reelected for that.
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C
I mean, like, let's be clear. But also, yes, Texas is a weird situation. The Democratic Party hasn't had wins in decades, and that makes it really hard to, I don't know, get people to invest in a good campaign there. And, you know, I mean, money will be spent from outside the state, but you'll see, like, the machinations, like the volunteer class, they've taken a beating over the years. And, yeah, so Ted Cruz is well positioned. Has been well positioned to win Senate seats all the time there. But, you know, he did do very well in 2015, as Ted pointed out, like, he was a really strong candidate.
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A
All right, Casey, who's got the next pick? The fifth pick in the Republicans draft goes to Ashley Lopez. Ashley, you are on the clock.
- [19:33]
C
Well, this is weirdly putting me in the position of picking another Kentuckian for my second pick. I know this is weird. And there's no indication that he's running, but if he did, I think Rand Paul has a better shot now than he's had in a while.
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B
We really are rebuilding 2016.
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A
Yeah, yeah, just run it back.
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C
And it's because of his anti war positions. It's because of like his.
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B
He wasn't even on my list.
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C
Yeah, I know this is a weird one. I mean, this really would have been my like, if we had like a wild card.
- [19:59]
B
He's in there.
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C
And I also have a bias because, like, I kind of felt this way about him in 2015. I moved to Kentucky to cover him for a year because I thought he carved out a really interesting space in Republican politics, like the very libertarian space. And like it was right at the beginning of Republicans taking interest in criminal justice reform. And he was sort of the leader on that. He was working, I believe, with Cory Booker on that. I think he's like a really interesting guy. However, and there's a reason we don't know if he's really running yet. He does not love running for a national office. He seemed to just like, be less interested in like the shaking hands all across the country part of this, like the high attention part of it, which is really important. I'm like almost talking myself out of, you know, my own pick here. But I do think, like, the having an anti war position is gonna be helpful for any candidate. Especially since, like, there was a president who made big promises about America scaling back on the foreign front and focusing on domestic issues, that they're gonna want someone who's been cons insistent on that. I'm sure a lot of voters, especially in the Republican Party, feel very burned by this.
- [21:02]
A
That makes sense, though. I still find myself pretty skeptical of this argument that somebody who has many high profile disagreements with Trump and with the Trump administration will be able to coalesce a winning electorate in a primary. I don't know. I mean, I. It's obviously possible. Anything's possible. I just, I'm skeptical of it.
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B
Yeah. I just think that in this era when people have been especially Republican based voters have been willing to accept such a heavy hand of government and such a heavy hand of the executive, libertarians are like, beside themselves with all of the actions that have been taken by the Trump administration. I don't know if libertarianism is really on the rise at the moment or if libertarianism is like, kind of on the out.
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C
This is why I think these conversations are hard to have so far out from elections because, like, you could either see the American electorate as the frog getting slowly boiled, or you could look at it like a pendulum.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Like, they could get just really tired of that. Like, they could get really tired of, like, police state stuff and even including in the Republican Party, like, they could go revert back to something that, you know, for a long time was a core part of the base. So I don't know. I'm of the opinion that I think, like, people are really upset about the war in Iran and I do think they're going to want someone who's been consistent on this front, possibly. Who knows?
- [22:28]
A
I'm intrigued. Big.
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C
Who knows?
- [22:29]
A
Casey, who's got the next pick? The sixth and final pick in the Republicans draft goes to Miles Parks. Miles, you're on the clock. All right, I got two options here, guys. Which way are we going? I think I'm going to do it. I think I'm going to still go Ron DeSantis, I think. Whoa. Like, I think I'm still there. I mean, I am a native Floridan. My Florida bias do be showing sometimes, but I'm still going to do it, I think. And here's my basis for it. When I think about what worked for Trump in 2024, the kind of anti woke policy argument, that whole brand of thinking. Desantis, like, owned that as a governor for the last few years. And I still think that is something that Republican primary voters have not soured on in the way that they have on some of these other issues, foreign policy issues, other things that kind of are associated with Trump. And so I almost feel like DeSantis has this ability to potentially pick out the things from Trumpism that are still popular with Republicans, while conveniently being able to say, I ran against him in 2024. I didn't agree with him in all these different ways in a way that, like, I could see him carving out some level of distance on some things, but still being able to lean into. Also, I think COVID policies are a thing that we don't talk about as much, but that I still think subconsciously for a lot of voters, it's why people are still angry at the Democratic Party in a lot of ways is still connected in some way to 2020 and post2020. And I think DeSantis has done a lot of things to anger people in Florida on social issues, but I do think he's still fairly popular on how he handled the pandemic, though that is controversial. To be very clear, I'm talking about politically. And so I think for all of those reasons, I just can see a version where he's able to navigate his way through a Republican primary.
- [24:29]
C
I don't know, like, Ron DeSantis was dinged pretty badly for running against Trump, and I don't see as much enthusiasm for him. Like, there was a weird amount of enthusiasm for Ron DeSantis right before the 2024 election. There was like, you know, during, right before the primary, his name was everywhere, like, especially at like CPAC and stuff. And you know, I know it's early, but like, I don't know that the base has like forgiven him for that. I remember covering a Trump rally in Hialeah, Florida, and I, I talked to voters, like people who had voted for DeSantis and had voted for Trump, and they were so disgusted with Ron DeSantis, they were like, I will never vote for that man again. I mean, I don't know how, like how much that sticks. But yeah, people were really upset about him doing that.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah. And he also came out of it looking kind of weak and small and
- [25:20]
C
his national profile has not been what it was since then. I don't think, like, I don't think he has been talked about as much. Not to completely undermine your case here, Miles.
- [25:30]
A
I mean, it's the sixth pick of the draft. Obviously, I'm not like, yeah, this is, I mean, I think this actually puts a finer point on this idea that, like, just to be very clear, currently it is basically a two person race. I feel like there's tiers, you know, and I think there's that two person tier and then it's like a bunch of other names. And I think, like, I do want to get to the dark horse round because I thought that was really fun last time here. And I think maybe you can make an argument DeSantis would be better as a dark horse candidate than as the sixth pick. But I just still think a two term governor from a state that has greatly increased in population and has. I don't know, there's a lot of things that I could see again, two years, a long, long time.
- [26:08]
C
I mean, arguably everyone we talked about except Marco Rubio and J.D. vance is a dark horse here, Right?
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A
Yeah. All right, well, I guess that's a good Transition to the dark horse round. I gave Tam the first pick of the dark horse Democratic candidate round. So I want to be equitable here. Ashley Lopez, you get the first pick of our dark horse Republican round.
- [26:30]
C
I'm gonna say Tucker Carlson. Ah, that feels an obvious one. Yeah, I know there's a reason.
- [26:37]
A
It has to be.
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C
It has to be.
- [26:38]
A
I mean, that was what. When I said I was torn between two. For my sixth pick, it was DeSantis
- [26:41]
C
and I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene. The reason I said her is because, like, I wanted to save Tucker Carlson for, for a dark horse pick. I mean, they're kind of of the same ilk. They are amazing room readers. They understand the online world of this, these groups of voters very well. And I don't think he's been taking a ding in, like, viewership since his, you know, his, his decoupling. His decoupling from conscious.
- [27:06]
B
Decoupling.
- [27:07]
C
His conscious uncoupling from Donald Trump. So I don't know. I think. And he's like, very smart. And I mean, you know, he's a
- [27:16]
B
good communicator, that communicator.
- [27:18]
C
What he's communicating is, you know, a whole other bag of grass. But he seems to have, he seems to like Marjorie Taylor Greene, like, understand the base of the party in a way. I think, like, even Donald Trump doesn't.
- [27:29]
A
What I like about it is he, you know, this last couple months, he's been talking about kind of wanting to. Yeah. Move away from the broader Republican Party, frankly. And he's, you know, floated this idea, I think, in interviews of like, starting a third party or trying to figure out some who doesn't want to start a third party. Everyone is floated that at some point. Right. But I do think that, to your point, about him knowing, kind of being able to read the room of how much of the electorate right now feels disillusioned with the two major parties. And if you can, as a candidate, tap into that disillusionment, even if at the end of the day you do end up running under the brand of one of the parties, but you can sort of establish those credentials as somebody who empathizes with voters, disillusionment there, I think that can be powerful.
- [28:08]
B
I think he helps feed the disillusionment, too. Yeah, he would definitely. He was on my list. But, yeah, he is certainly someone who is able to channel the angst that voters are feeling about a lot of things. I think there are a lot of questions about him, though, like where his money is coming from and, you know, like, he Went on a trip to Russia and was absolutely charmed by their grocery store.
- [28:37]
C
Like,
- [28:39]
B
he sometimes comes across as extremely gullible, and I don't know if that is something that you can sell if you're running for president. Yeah.
- [28:48]
C
And I don't know how much he actually, I kind of seriously doubt that Tucker Carlson wants to run for president. I do think he maybe is shoring up a space in the base for someone like J.D. vance. I think he's doing a lot of reputation laundering in the front end just in case J.D. vance, you know, runs for president, which I'm. That one does seem like is going to happen. But. Yeah, I don't know. There's. I think Tucker Carlson is, like, very interesting to watch.
- [29:15]
A
All right, Tam, you're up with the second pick of the wild card portion of this draft.
- [29:20]
B
I'm just going to preface this by saying there are many arguments and including constitutional arguments for why this is not. But my pick is Donald J. Trump because he has toyed with the idea of running for an unconstitutional third term many times. He is so obsessed with trying to rewrite history on the 2020 election and saying it was stolen from him. All of these actions he's taking to try to change voting rules, is he doing that for somebody other than himself and realizing that, you know, his approval rating is not in a good place? And it could be that the American people don't really want another term of Donald Trump on our dark horse list. I think he has to be there.
- [30:10]
A
Yeah. I feel like I want to be able to poo poo this completely for constitutional reasons.
- [30:16]
C
I mean, the merch is out there already.
- [30:19]
B
Indeed it is. And he has handed those 20, 28 hats to World leaders and members of Congress alike.
- [30:25]
C
I mean, we are in a Democrat. I feel like I'm a broken record, but we are in a Democratic backslide. Like, he has been testing the bounds of, like, what, the structures of our democracy for over a decade now.
- [30:37]
B
All right, Miles, what's your dark horse?
- [30:38]
A
Damn, you brought the heat with both your wild card picks. Yeah, I did. And I feel like, yeah, now I'm in the position where like. Like, mine's gonna sound really crazy just in
- [30:48]
B
how tame it is.
- [30:49]
A
Yeah, exactly. I was like, I'm going full tame. And so I'm just gonna give you Brian Kemp. I'm just gonna say, very popular governor, such a voting reporter answer, and somebody who, again, I think I actually am. Keep going back to this. Similar to my DeSantis argument, which is just that, like, somebody's Gonna have to do some gymnastics on Trump to win this primary. And I think actually Brian Kemp has done a pretty interesting job of that in terms of not fully getting Trump mad at him, despite being attached to the most high profile disagreement of his presidency of the last six years of whether he won Georgia. And Brian Kemp says he did not win Georgia. And yet he has still kind of maintained a pretty good relationship with Trump seemingly. And so I think that that leads me to believe that there is a path. And so I don't know. What do you guys think?
- [31:39]
B
I do not know that Georgia Governor Brian Kemp actually does have a good relationship with Trump.
- [31:46]
A
I mean, I guess there's worse relationships with Trump.
- [31:49]
B
I would say it's like Gavin Newsoms,
- [31:52]
A
you think he's like in the bottom. My understanding was that my sense was that it was not the bottom tier of Trump relationships. But maybe I'm wrong.
- [32:00]
B
It's not up there in chum territory because President Trump has endorsed candidates who are not the candidates that Brian Kemp has endorsed. There's been sort of a shadow rivalry going on. And I think Trump is still mad about 2020. And anyone that is even remotely associated with 2020 as Brian Kemp is, is not on his friend list, I guess
- [32:24]
A
depends on what Republican voters want, though, because they do like him in Georgia.
- [32:28]
C
Like, as you mentioned, he hasn't had to pay a price with voters, seemingly at least not a Georgia, which is interesting.
- [32:33]
A
All right, well, we can leave it there for today. We will have a lot more of these drafts as we keep getting closer to 2028. Again, what a pleasure, guys. Thank you. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.
- [32:43]
C
I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.
- [32:45]
B
And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover politics.
- [32:47]
A
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