It's (still) the economy, stupid

Summary

Podcast Summary: The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: It's (still) the economy, stupid
Date: August 3, 2026
Host/Panelists: Tamara Keith, Ashley Lopez, Scott Horsley

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the enduring importance of the economy in American politics, especially during an election year marked by sluggish growth, persistent inflation, and anxious voters. The panel breaks down the state of the economy—jobs, inflation, consumer sentiment—and analyzes how both Democratic and Republican candidates, including President Trump, are messaging these issues to voters on the campaign trail.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current State of the Economy

• Slow Economic Growth:

  • Scott Horsley: "The economy is doing okay. It's not going gangbusters... during the spring, the US economy grew at an annual rate of 1.5%...slower growth than we saw earlier this year." (00:55)
  • K-shaped Recovery: Well-off families benefit from surging stock market and home values, while others struggle to keep up with rising costs.
  • Tamara Keith: "Everyone else is complaining about how much things cost." (01:52)

• Inflation and Real Wages:

  • Wages had been outpacing inflation for two years, but now prices are rising faster than paychecks—real purchasing power is shrinking.
  • Scott Horsley: "Prices are rising faster than wages in recent months. And so people are seeing their real purchasing power shrink." (01:57)

• Consumer Pain Points:

  • Essentials like groceries and gas continue to rise, squeezing household budgets.
  • Ashley Lopez: “Time and time again, you'll hear voters complain about...things in their budget they cannot change, getting more expensive.” (02:32)

2. Job Market Conditions

• Stalling Job Creation:
  • Low layoffs, but also minimal new job growth.
  • Scott Horsley: “People who are just trying to break into the job market or who are unlucky enough to lose their jobs are having a tough time...more than a quarter...had been out of work for more than six months.” (03:08)
• Worker Anxiety & Pessimism:
  • Out-of-work Americans find it increasingly hard to land new positions, fuelling pessimism.
  • Ashley Lopez: “The longer the economy stays this way, the more pessimistic people are that they'll be able to find a job at some point.” (03:45)

3. Campaign Messaging Around the Economy

Democrats:

• Focus on Affordability & Corruption:
  • Democrats frame economic malaise as the result of political corruption and Republican deregulation.
  • Ashley Lopez: “...framing the economic woes of this country as a corruption issue.” (04:25)
  • Notable Quote/Chant:
    • Tamara Keith (quoting Abdul Al Syed): “Money out of politics. Money in, in your pocket. Medicare for all.” (05:27)
• Safety Net & Policy Focus:
  • Promises to shore up social programs cut by Republicans, address housing, and hold companies accountable.
  • Ashley Lopez: “Democrats are at least pitching like, hey, we're going to shore up a lot of the safety net ... and we're going to find ways to hold companies accountable...” (06:24)

Republicans:

• Emphasis on Affordability, Few Concrete Plans:
  • Shift from “national security” to “affordability,” even among Trump-backed candidates.
  • Darlene Graham (R, Senate candidate): “I'll probably be focused more on affordability. What matters to the families in South Carolina, the struggling families, because I know what it is to struggle from week to week, paycheck to paycheck.” (07:32)
• Reliance on Tax Cuts:
  • Repeated references to recently passed tax cuts, including, “no tax on tips.”
  • Tamara Keith: “...they want credit for those tax cuts that they passed as part of the one big, beautiful bill.” (09:10)
• Voter Distrust:
  • Polls show more voters now trust Democrats than Republicans on managing the economy (the first time since about 2010).
  • Ashley Lopez: “Polls show that ... more voters think that Democrats are more trustworthy on the economy than Republicans.” (08:07)

President Trump:

• Accentuation of the Positive:
  • Touts stock market gains, claims prices are falling, blames the Iran war for gas prices, and pleads for more time.
  • Tamara Keith: "President Trump...is out there accentuating the positive. The stock market is booming...Prices are coming down..." (11:55)
• Voter Skepticism:
  • Voters are unimpressed by 401k increases if immediate costs are too high.
  • Ashley Lopez: “Well, no. I mean, what is a 401k if tomorrow you can't buy your groceries?” (12:20)
  • Echoes of Biden's communication struggles: “This is how it went with Joe Biden and his then reelection...voters were really frustrated hearing lawmakers tell them that everything is fine.” (12:32)
• Disconnect Between Data & Lived Experience:
  • Ashley Lopez: “The data's fine. Ignore how you're feeling.” (12:55)
  • Scott Horsley: “When the President says that prices are coming down all over the place, that's just not true...the cost of living is still going up.” (13:09)

4. Policy Moves and Their Political Fallout

• Tariffs:
  • President Trump reimposes tariffs using new legal justifications after Supreme Court strikes some down; billed as a tool for reshoring manufacturing and generating government revenue.
  • Scott Horsley: “Tariffs are a tax on everything we import. And ultimately those taxes are paid first by the US Importers and in many cases by the people who buy the end products.” (15:06)
• Effectiveness in Reshoring:
  • Tariffs haven’t delivered manufacturing jobs; instead, 75,000 jobs were lost since Trump’s return.
  • Scott Horsley: “The US has lost 75,000 manufacturing jobs since President Trump returned to the White House at the beginning of last year.” (17:22)
• Voters' Demands:
  • Voters care about the immediate cost of living, not distant promises of manufacturing revitalization.
  • Ashley Lopez: “The thing that voters want him to solve right now, our prices, our high prices...Five years from now doesn't solve their current problems.” (16:47)

5. Political Sentiment & “Broken American Dream”

• Voter Frustration & Pessimism:
  • Anti-incumbent mood fueled by the sense that hard work no longer leads to economic security.
  • Tamara Keith: “People feeling like the American contract is broken. The idea that you can work hard and get ahead...” (17:47)
• Barriers to Wealth & Mobility:
  • Particularly acute among young people who feel locked out of home ownership and stock market participation.
  • Ashley Lopez: “A lot of Americans feel locked out of home ownership, especially young people...building actual wealth requires things like home ownership, having enough money to even participate in the stock market, which a lot of people don't.” (18:27)
• “Little treat economy”:
  • Many Americans can only afford small, short-term purchases, not long-term wealth-building.
  • Ashley Lopez: “I've heard economists call this like a little treat economy...all people can't afford are the small stuff. But building actual wealth requires things like home ownership...” (18:27)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On wage stagnation:
  “Wage growth was about 3.2% for the 12 months ending in June. That's not enough to keep pace with inflation.” – Scott Horsley (06:01)

• On the practical impact of the stock market:
  “What is a 401k if tomorrow you can't buy your groceries?” – Ashley Lopez (12:20)

• On rising living costs:
  “When the President says that prices are coming down all over the place, that's just not true...the cost of living is still going up and up and up.” – Scott Horsley (13:09)

• On tariffs:
  “Tariffs are a tax on everything we import...these tariff rates...are much higher than the import taxes that were in place before President Trump came back to the White House. So this is still a tax on U.S. businesses and ultimately U.S. consumers.” – Scott Horsley (15:06)

• On the limitations of current political strategies:
  “...for a president that rode voter frustration to reelection and back into the White House to dismiss those ongoing concerns about affordability...it's kind of surprising that Trump has not taken the lesson in Joe Biden's Lost a Heart.” – Scott Horsley (19:14)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• State of the Economy/Consumer Sentiment: 00:52 – 02:59
• Jobs & Pessimism: 03:08 – 04:14
• How Democrats Talk Economy: 04:25 – 05:27
• Minimum Wage/Wage Growth Discussion: 06:01
• Safety Net Cuts & Democratic Policy Response: 06:24
• Republican Messaging (“No Plan”): 07:32 – 08:55
• GOP Tax Cuts & Voter Reaction: 09:10 – 10:06
• Trump's Economic Messaging & Voter Pushback: 11:55 – 12:55
• Inflation, Gas Prices, War with Iran: 13:09 – 14:50
• Tariffs—Mechanics and Impact: 15:06 – 17:22
• Voters’ Economic Anxiety (“Broken American Dream”): 17:47 – 19:14

---

Conclusion

The episode lays bare the persistent gap between economic data and how Americans feel about their finances. Politicians on both sides struggle to credibly address voters’ anger over unaffordable basics and shrinking opportunities. Amid slow growth, high prices, and political gridlock, the panel highlights why “it’s (still) the economy, stupid”—and why neither party has yet found the right economic message to win skeptical and frustrated voters in 2026.

Transcript

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

This message comes from ixl. The IXL Level up diagnostic gives you clear, just in time insight into student learning with benchmark results and real time updates throughout the year. Even better, LevelUp creates a personalized action plan for every student that guides them to what they should practice on IXL to improve. Learn [e-mail] NPR it's the economy, stupid.

[Tamara Keith]

It's a political truth that became a slogan in 1992 and it's just as true today. So how is the economy doing and how are candidates talking about it? That's what we're digging into today. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover politics.

[Ashley Lopez]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I also cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

And NPR chief economics correspondent Scott Horsley also joins us today. Hello, Scott.

[Scott Horsley]

Good to be with you all.

[Tamara Keith]

So Scott, how is the economy doing?

[Scott Horsley]

The economy is doing okay. It's not going gangbusters. We got a report card recently on gross domestic product, which is sort the broadest measure of economic activity. And it shows that during the spring, the US economy grew at an annual rate of 1.5%. Now that's certainly better than shrinking, but it's slower growth than we saw earlier this year. It's certainly slower growth than we saw during the period when Joe Biden was in the White House. The consumer piece of that, you know, the largest driver of our economy is consumer spending. And consumer spending held up pretty well during the spring quarter, although there's some question about how much of that spending is really being driven by just the the wealthiest families in the country with other folks kind of treading water. That's the so called K shaped economy where the well off who are feeling buoyed by a booming stock market and rising home values, they're swimming along just fine. And everyone else is kind of treading

[Tamara Keith]

water and everyone else is complaining about how much things cost.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah, I mean, inflation continues to be elevated. And importantly, in recent months, prices have been going up faster than people's wages, which is a little bit of a turnaround. We've had two plus years where people's wages, their paychecks were growing faster than prices. So they were kind of regaining some of the ground that they lost in 2021 and 2022 when we saw that runaway inflation, that regaining of ground has now been stopped. And prices are rising faster than wages in recent months. And so people are seeing their real purchasing power shrink.

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, and prices are rising in the things that people spend a lot of their money on, which are groceries and gas things that they need day to day. And so as long as those items in their budget keep on growing, it's harder for them to save money, get out of debt, do all the big things that a lot of families are trying to tackle coming out of the pandemic. So, yeah, I mean, time and time again, you'll hear voters complain about just like the sort of things in their budget they cannot change, getting more expensive.

[Tamara Keith]

So, Scott, there is another component of the economy I think we should talk about, which is jobs, the other key component there. So how is the job market doing?

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah, the job market has kind of been in this holding pattern where we're not adding a whole lot of jobs month after month, but we're also not seeing a whole lot of pink slips go out. So people who are working don't have to worry too much about the prospect of getting laid off. The layoffs remain quite low by historical standards. But. But we're also just not adding a whole lot of jobs. So the unemployment rate remains relatively low. But for people who are just trying to break into the job market or who are unlucky enough to lose their jobs are having a tough time finding a new one. More than a quarter of all the people who were unemployed this summer had been out of work for more than six months.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, I've been hearing that a lot from voters. Not everyone is having this experience with the economy because a lot of people have kept their jobs. But the people who have lost jobs feel very pessimistic about their ability to find a new one in any meaningful time. The longer the economy kind of struggles along, I mean, things aren't dire yet, but no one's optimistic that things will be roaring anytime soon. So the longer the economy stays this way, the more pessimistic people are that they'll be able to find a job at some point.

[Tamara Keith]

Ashley, what are you hearing from politicians like this? This is an election year. How are politicians, people running for office talking about the economy?

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, I mean, let's start with Democrats who are probably in the best position to talk about this. Right. Because they're not in control. So frustration about the economy is not their cross to bear at this point. It's not. You know, they can say it's not their fault. Look, you voted for Republicans and here's what you get. But we have, like, a plan to tackle this. And the plan, you know, it runs a gamut. There's a lot of focus on housing, you know, make it easier to build housing, that sort of thing. And then there's the thing I'm hearing the most, which is interesting, which is framing the economic woes of this country as a corruption issue. What the Trump administration has done to deregulate has led to the situation that the economy's in right now. Actually, let's hear from a Democratic candidate in Michigan's Senate primary. His name is Abdul Al Syed, and he said this in a debate hosted by Wood TV in Grand Rapids. All of this has to happen by

[Scott Horsley]

way of getting the corruption out of our politics.

[Tamara Keith]

So long as corporations are buying politicians, we can't actually enact these solutions because

[Ashley Lopez]

they're getting the policies that they signed up for when they pay for their politicians.

[Tamara Keith]

His campaign has this slogan and sort of a call and response chant, which is money out of politics. Money in, in your pocket. Medicare for all. That is. That is how he is pitching it. Arguably, Democrats across the spectrum are talking about the economy one way or another. A lot of them are talking about affordability and how much things cost from housing to groceries. But, you know, another thing that voters care about a lot is wages. And I don't know that we're really hearing that much about.

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

No.

[Scott Horsley]

And wage growth has slowed. Wage growth was about 3.2% for the 12 months ending in June. That's not enough to keep pace with inflation. And when you have a kind of stagnant job market with not a lot of new jobs being added and not a lot of churn, there's really no incentive for employers to raise wages more rapidly the way they were doing a few years ago.

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, save, like, raising the minimum wage. There's not really a lot that, like, Democrats could run on in terms of, you know, increasing wage growth at this point. So, you know, I think the, what Democrats are getting at is, you know, Republicans have also made the safety net around everyone harder to access. It would be one thing if grocery prices were going down. But also, snap, the federal food assistance program was also cut substantially in the one big beautiful bill Republicans passed last year. So, you know, people are feeling the pinches from either side. And Democrats are at least pitching like, hey, we're going to shore up a lot of the safety net that has been chipped away at in the second term of Trump's presidency. And we're going to find ways to hold companies accountable and politicians accountable who they argue are not doing their job to make life more affordable for people.

[Tamara Keith]

So this weekend, the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, Darlene Graham, did an interview on Fox News, and something really stood out to me from It. She is running in this flash GOP primary in South Carolina to replace her brother on the ballot, and she was asked what her agenda would look like.

[Ashley Lopez]

Lindsay was probably much more focused on national security, and I know that's important, but I'll probably be focused more on affordability. What matters to the families in South Carolina, the struggling families, because I know what it is to struggle from week to week, paycheck to paycheck. So definitely affordability.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. So here is a Republican candidate for Senate endorsed by President Trump, talking about economic struggles. Ashley, what do you make of that?

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, I will. I mean, this is just a clip, but I will say you are hearing more Republicans talk about affordability. You are not hearing a plan. The only plan I have heard are tax cuts, which is something that Republicans already delivered. Mostly those tax cuts benefited the wealthier Americans. But Republicans seemingly do not have an actual plan, from what I have heard, to tackle affordability. But they know that the president and their party is unpopular right now, mostly on the economy. Polls show that for the first time since, I don't know, 2010, more voters think that Democrats are more trustworthy on the economy than Republicans. It's a serious problem for the party. So, yeah, they're gonna talk about it. But, you know, short of tax cuts, I've hear very little to address the problem of people not having enough money to afford the things they need in their life.

[Scott Horsley]

I think you're also just seeing a level of frustration with the people that are in power right now, just as we saw democrats punished in 2024 because people were frustrated with the high cost of living. It's possible you're seeing Republicans take the brunt of that criticism now, since they're the party in power.

[Tamara Keith]

And on that tax matter, I think President Trump and his party, they really want credit for those tax cuts that they passed as part of the one big, beautiful bill, including no tax on tips, which he talks a lot. Or in certain parts of the country where property taxes are high, they talk about the state and local tax deduction. It is definitely part of the plan from the president and Republicans in Congress to try to. Try to run on gratitude that they want. They want credit for having passed that measure.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. But Democrats have effectively relayed to voters that a lot of, yes, some people got tax cuts, maybe not enough to offset the rising prices in this country, but the other thing that happened is that a lot of people are going to lose healthcare. A lot of people have lost food stamps. You know, there's. That bill is not very popular. It did a lot of things, including cut a lot of programs that would help people get through a bad economic time.

[Scott Horsley]

And tax refunds were bigger on average this year than they were last year. That's one reason consumers were able to maintain their spending during the April, May and June quarter. But for a lot of families now those tax refunds have been spent and now they're just faced with the high prices.

[Tamara Keith]

All right. We're going to take a quick break and we'll have more in a moment.

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

This message comes from IXL. IXL's level up diagnostic gives immediate benchmark results along with personalized action plans that link directly to IXL's skill practice. [e-mail] NPR this message comes from BetterHelp. One of the hardest parts about starting therapy, not knowing what to expect. Instead of listening to an ad, hear from the people who've actually been there. Visit betterhelp.com reviews to explore real client reviews that are updated every day with an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on more than 1.7 million client session reviews. The feedback speaks for itself.

Visit betterhelp.com reviews this message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Carvana makes car buying easy. 100% online prices down to the penny, delivered to your door. Why make car buying hard when it could be easy? Visit Carvana.com today. Terms may apply. This message comes from Betterment. Their automated investing and saving tools give you the quiet confidence of someone who knows where to put their money with tax smart tools that help grow your after tax returns year round. Get started [e-mail] that's B E T T E R m e n t.com investing involves risk performance, not guaranteed. Betterment is not a tax advisor, nor should any information herein be considered tax advice. Please consult a qualified tax professional.

[Tamara Keith]

And we're back. And we talked about how Democrats and Republicans are campaigning on the economy. But I also want to talk about President Trump because he is out there accentuating the positive. The stock market is booming, he says, just check your 401ks. Prices are coming down all over the place. Yes, the war with Iran has caused gas prices to go up, but he just needs a little more time. Ashley, are voters buying what he's selling?

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, no. I mean, what is a 401k if tomorrow you can't buy your groceries? I mean, it's a tough one, right? Like this is. And also, I mean, the fact that the stock market is doing well does not reflect immediately in someone's economic situation, it's. It just doesn't. And so if people's lives are hard, they're checking their budgets day in, day out, and they're hearing a politician tell them that everything is fine. I don't know. I've heard this story before. This is how it went with Joe Biden and his then reelection. Until the end of his campaign, voters were really frustrated hearing lawmakers tell them that everything is fine.

[Tamara Keith]

The data's fine. Ignore how you're feeling.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And also data tells you. I mean, this is more Scott's bag, but data gives you a picture of one very specific thing. When people's lives give you a million stories about how things are going.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah. And when the President says that prices are coming down all over the place, that's just not true. You can certainly cherry pick individual prices that have come down, for example, eggs. But overall, the cost of living is still going up and up and up. It was up 3.5% for the 12 months ending in June. And you know, you can draw a straight line between the President's decision to go to war with Iran and the more than a dollar a gallon increase we've seen since then in the price of gasoline. Diesel prices across the country on average are now averaging more than $5 a gallon. That has the potential to raise the cost of everything that gets shipped around or travels by truck or train. So these are real consequences. And people aren't blind. They notice it.

[Ashley Lopez]

So what's interesting is like, actually, this is something we in the Swing Voter Project ask voters every month, which is like, whose economy is this at this point? And earlier this year, people were still blaming Joe Biden for once that war in Iran started, things changed. People see that as a choice. Prices in general, inflation, that was still being blamed on Joe Biden, but even tariffs a little bit. People expected that that was something Trump was trying, that would eventually sort itself out, even though they didn't like tariffs. But voters now say Trump chose this war and gas prices are 100% his fault. Now, whether they are supportive of the project of the war in general, most aren't. And even people who are in general not opposed to the war don't like that prices have gone up and they do blame the war on it. So it's a like Trump is in a tough spot and it's gonna be hard to convince voters that there's anything else to blame for this at this point.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, Scott Ashley mentioned tariffs. We should just note that President Trump has once again started leaning in on tariffs. Imposing new tariffs on U.S. trading partners. Explain how that might affect people.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah, well, tariffs are a tax on everything we import. And ultimately those taxes are paid first by the US Importers and in many cases by the people who buy the end products. They are not typically paid by the foreign countries or the foreign exporters who send us the goods, although that's something that the president's trying to argue. But we people have watched this now. We've had the experience. We know that the tariffs are mostly paid by US Importers and ultimately in some cases by their customers. The Supreme Court struck down a lot of Trump's tariffs earlier this year, but the White House has moved swiftly to rebuild that tariff trade barrier. And you know, the president likes the revenue that tariffs bring in. So he's gone back to the. Well, he's now using a different legal rationale, ostensibly, ostensibly attacking trading partners for not doing enough to crack down on forced labor. But the end result for businesses and consumers is the same. Now, these tariff rates are in many cases lower than the tariffs that the Supreme Court struck down, but they're much higher than the import taxes that were in place before President Trump came back to the White House. So this is still a tax on U.S. businesses and ultimately U.S. consumers.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, and it's fascinating because President Trump is saying that long term it is going to improve the US Economy. It is going to reshore manufacturing, bring back jobs that have been gone and seem to be going away still. He is a true believer, but it's just not clear to me that he has convinced voters of that.

[Ashley Lopez]

No, because the thing that voters want him to solve right now, our prices, our high prices, and something going to work out in five years from now doesn't solve their current problems. And also I've heard voters say that they want also to bring some manufacturing jobs back to the United States. They are not opposed to that larger project. But I will say largely, economists pretty much agree that while it would be good for the American economy to bring back a significant part of the manufacturing base that was lost, there is very little evidence that raising tariffs would in the short term bring a lot of those jobs back.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah. The US has lost 75,000 manufacturing jobs since President Trump returned to the White House at the beginning of last year. So it's very hard to argue that there's some sort of reshoring success. Now. Are there individual companies that have decided to move jobs to the US from someplace else? Yes. But in the aggregate, tariffs have not created a renaissance for US Factories. Tariffs have just been a cost burden on us Businesses and consumers.

[Tamara Keith]

I do kind of just want to come back to where we started in a way, which is that this is a midterm about the economy. And I think that candidates have realized that voters are certainly making that clear. They are angry, they are frustrated. And the anti incumbent sentiment that is out there is at least in part a result of people feeling like the American contract is broken. The idea that you can work hard and get ahead ahead and buy a house and raise a family, that, that feels like that's just not attainable for a lot of people anymore.

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, the fact that a lot of Americans feel locked out of home ownership, especially young people, is where I think a lot of the bigger frustrations with the economy are coming from. Like, yeah, sure, maybe gas prices could would come down, but I actually don't think that would solve, I don't think that would solve most of Donald Trump's problems. I really don't. I think that what you're seeing right now in the economy, I mean, just to like, back up a little bit, I've heard economists call this like a little treat economy people. Yes. You see consumer spending sort of plugging along because all people can't afford are the small stuff. But building actual wealth requires things like home ownership, having enough money to even participate in the stock market, which a lot of people don't. So this is why you are seeing numbers that look, hey, okay, pretty well. But everyone feels really crappy about the economy.

[Scott Horsley]

And, you know, for a president that rode voter frustration to reelection and back into the White House to dismiss those ongoing concerns about affordability and in fact, to pour salt in the wounds by starting a war or imposing tariffs that make affordability worse, it's kind of surprising that Trump has not taken the lesson in Joe Biden's Lost a Heart.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. All right. Well, we're gonna leave it there for today. Thank you, Scott.

[Scott Horsley]

Always good to be with you.

[Tamara Keith]

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover politics.

[Ashley Lopez]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I also cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Ashley Lopez]

Zendaya and Tom Holland are back in Brand New Day. And the movie has a more grounded tone than we've seen from the franchise.

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

But does it strike the right balance

[Ashley Lopez]

of fun and dark? We'll talk about it on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. Listen via the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

Big news stories don't always break on your schedule, but with the NPR app, news, culture and podcasts are ready when you want them.

[Tamara Keith]

In your pocket.

[NPR Sponsor/Ad Announcer]

Download the NPR app today.