Another government shutdown looms -- what you need to know

Summary

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The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: Another government shutdown looms -- what you need to know
Date: January 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the looming threat of another partial government shutdown in the U.S., focusing on the latest congressional impasse over funding—centered around federal immigration policies and the recent deadly actions of immigration officers. The conversation explores what has changed since the last (historically lengthy) shutdown, what Democrats and Republicans are demanding, the potential for bipartisan reform, and the broader political implications. Additionally, the episode assesses the ongoing fallout from the 2020 election, probes into the FBI raid in Georgia, and wraps up with a personal goodbye from co-host Sarah McCammon.

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Main Participants

• Tamara Keith (Host, White House Correspondent)
• Sam Greenglass (Congress Correspondent)
• Ximena Bustillo (Immigration Policy Correspondent)
• Domenico Montanaro (Senior Political Editor and Correspondent)
• Stephen Fowler (Political Reporter)
• Sarah McCammon (Political Correspondent)

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Another Shutdown? A High-Stakes Game Over Immigration

(Starts ~01:12)

• Congress is again on the brink of a government shutdown, but this time the conflict isn't about healthcare, but federal immigration enforcement tactics. The impasse revolves around a $1.3 trillion spending package—most of which was on track, until a second fatal shooting by a federal immigration officer in Minneapolis fundamentally shifted the debate.

• "Democrats saw this as kind of their only chance to extract some changes to rein in immigration tactics."
  — Sam Greenglass (01:31)

• Senate negotiators agreed to separate Department of Homeland Security (DHS) funding from the broader budget, giving it a two-week extension, opening a narrow window to debate potential reforms.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Greenglass:
  "What we're talking about now is about $1.3 trillion in spending that's on the line... But then a federal immigration officer killed a second Minneapolis resident, 37 year old Alex Preddy. Democrats saw this as their only chance to extract some changes..." (01:31)

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2. The Democratic "Three Buckets" of Immigration Reform

(Starts ~02:35)

• Ximena Bustillo explains Democrats’ three core demands:

  1. End administrative warrants: Only judicial warrants (signed by a judge) would allow entry for arrests, ending agencies’ ability to permit entry themselves.
  2. Stronger agency oversight: Revamp investigative/internal affairs, as existing oversight bodies were gutted during previous federal downsizing.
  3. Identification and transparency: Mandate body cameras for officers, ban homemade face masks, and enforce clearer officer ID.

• "A lot of the oversight bodies within DHS were completely gutted ... Democrats are interested in looking into that." — Ximena Bustillo (03:30)

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3. Republican Shifts? Rhetoric and Reality

(Starts ~04:07)

• Sam Greenglass notes surprising Republican willingness to discuss reforms, referencing GOP leaders like Lindsey Graham and Thom Tillis expressing rare bipartisan concern over DHS conduct.

• Thom Tillis (quoted):
  "It's terrible. It's making the president look bad on policies that he won on... These people are amateurs. They gotta deescalate there and treat these communities with some respect." (05:11)

• Tamara Keith reminds listeners that retiring members (like Tillis) are often more candid. Bipartisan movement is real but tenuous.

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4. Is a Deal Possible? Obstacles and Next Steps

(Starts ~06:03)

• Ximena Bustillo stresses the fragility of the negotiation:
  • At recording time, even the Senate hadn't voted on the deal.
  • House approval is still needed—with its ultra-narrow GOP majority causing serious uncertainty.
  • Oversight hearings coinciding with policy deadlines could either reignite the controversy or diffuse urgency.
  • There’s a clear risk of legislative “slippery slope”—what starts as targeted reform could balloon into a wider, messier immigration fight.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamara Keith:
  "To be clear, you're telling me everything's falling apart." (06:18)

• Ximena Bustillo:
  "...it's a little bit more of a wait and see... But it might all come back into the headlines when you have the head of ICE, Border Patrol, and Citizenship & Immigration Services testifying..." (07:38)

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5. Lessons from Last Time: Will History Repeat?

(Starts ~08:15)

• Tamara remembers how, during the last shutdown, Democrats caved after winning only a “promise” of a vote, implying the current brinkmanship may lead to another ambiguous compromise.
• Sam Greenglass relays how some Democrats who previously folded are now more willing to take a stand, especially post-shooting.

Notable Quotes:

• Senator Jackie Rosen (via Ximena):
  "ICE is out of control. Donald Trump is out of control. His tyrannical government, his cruel cabinet, who the hell do they think they are? We have a bill of Rights." (09:08)

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6. The President’s Influence and What Comes Next

(Starts ~10:48)

• President Trump, in contrast to previous fights, is now publicly urging for bipartisan passage and separation of DHS funding, exerting his longstanding sway over House Republicans.

• Tamara Keith:
  "He clearly does not want an extended government shutdown, certainly not over this issue." (11:10)

• Sam notes that, last fall, Trump’s non-involvement led to deadlock—suggesting his current active engagement may tip the scales.

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7. What to Watch For

(Starts ~11:43)

• Ximena: Will Republicans engage seriously with immigration reforms suddenly under consideration, or will momentum fizzle if the public focus shifts?
• Sam: Even a short shutdown would impact major agencies (Pentagon, HHS, HUD, DHS)—though many (like Agriculture) are already funded.

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Special Segment: 2020 Election Fallout & FBI Raid in Georgia

(Starts ~14:37)

• Stephen Fowler reports on the FBI’s raid at Fulton County’s (Atlanta) election center—seizing 650+ boxes relating to the 2020 election.
• The investigation targets potential destruction of election records and fraudulent ballot tabulation, but details are sparse, fueling conspiracy theories.
• The ongoing drumbeat of 2020 “rigged election” rhetoric continues from Trump, despite repeated audits, court cases, and zero evidence found.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Fowler:
  "There were a number of claims about how Fulton county ran its election that were based in conspiracies based on false claims... None of those things are true. And the nebulous nature of this raid and the silence afterwards, it's kind of part of the point..." (16:28)

• Domenico Montanaro:
  "It's been audited, it's been looked at, and they [Georgia officials] have taken a lot of hits for standing up to Trump." (18:08)

• On Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, attending the FBI raid:
  "National intelligence is not supposed to cross over with domestic issues... So why is she there?" (21:49)
  And from Senator Mark Warner:
  "Either Director Gabbard believes there is a legitimate foreign intelligence nexus, in which case she's in clear violation... or she's once again demonstrating her utter lack of fitness..." (22:01)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Ximena on the potential for reform:
  "The next two weeks will really be about: how are Republicans taking this moment as a salient moment to pass legislation? Are they thinking everything is fixed, good and dandy? What is gonna be their posture?" (11:43)

• Tamara’s comedic take on the President’s Cabinet meeting nap:
  "There was quite a news cycle about, oh geez, the 79 year old President is sleeping." (27:04)

  • Trump jokingly defends himself, "I didn't sleep. I just closed [my eyes] because I wanted to get the hell out of here. I don't sleep much, let me tell you..." (27:58)

• Domenico’s ice wall childhood advice:
  "I just have advice from my grandfather... to everybody else out there... 'No, kill yourself. Take your time. Pace yourself.'" (29:20)

• Sarah McCammon’s heartfelt farewell:
  "...I am saying goodbye to this podcast and to NPR... I will not be able to let go of many, many memories of working with both of you... It has been a very meaningful more than two decades in public radio." (30:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:12 | Intro to shutdown crisis and immigration debate | | 02:35 | Ximena explains Democrats’ three buckets of immigration demands | | 04:07 | Republican responses and growing bipartisan concern | | 06:03 | Status update: Senate/House have not even agreed yet | | 08:15 | Recapping previous shutdown and possible negotiation-endgames | | 09:08 | Senator Jackie Rosen’s quote on ICE—Democratic sentiment intensifies | | 10:48 | President Trump's influence—could he end the logjam this time? | | 11:43 | What’s next: hearings, agencies at risk, shifting political winds | | 14:37 | FBI raid in Fulton County, Georgia—search for 2020 election records | | 16:28 | Stephen Fowler: What’s the raid about? Context on Georgia election conspiracies | | 18:08 | Domenico on Georgia’s audited results and Trump’s ongoing fixation | | 21:49 | DNI Tulsi Gabbard’s controversial involvement in raid; Sen. Warner’s criticism | | 27:04 | Comic relief: President’s napping in cabinet meeting | | 30:26 | Sarah McCammon announces her departure |

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Tone & Style

• Accessible, smart, and conversational with a dash of dry NPR wit.
• Candid moments: Tamara’s playful critiques, Sam’s methodical breakdowns, heartfelt goodbyes, and self-aware asides (e.g., about snow shoveling and aging).
• Strong reporter-at-the-scene ethos: Especially evident in Stephen Fowler’s Georgia election coverage.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers an in-depth, on-the-ground view of the latest shutdown standoff, highlighting how tragedy, partisanship, and policy demands intersect at crisis points. The team underscores how quickly the political landscape can shift, why tidbits like Trump’s direct involvement are significant, and how ongoing distrust of election outcomes remains an urgent issue—even years later.

For listeners, this is essential primer on the state of play in Washington, the perimeter of real change, and the unpredictability of American politics in 2026.

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Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Domenico Montanaro]

This is Micah and Mark. We're playing hooky today and are currently snowshoeing through the backcountry in the Rocky Mountains. We're celebrating our 47th birthdays together and more than 41 years of friendship when we met the day before kindergarten.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh my gosh. The current time is 12:35pm on Friday, January 30th.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Things might have changed by the time you hear this, but we'll hopefully be warming up by the fire. Enjoy the show.

[Tamara Keith]

That is just like the sweetest thing. Like a longtime friendship is amazing.

[Sam Greenglass]

I would rather be snowshoeing with my best friend right now, but we might need snowshoes still in DC if they can sink into the ice.

[Tamara Keith]

I did see people snowshoeing in my neighborhood this weekend and it was I was jealous, I will say as I slept lit around. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Sam Greenglass]

I'm Sam Greenglass. I cover Congress.

[Ximena Bustillo]

I'm Ximena Bustillo and I cover immigration policy.

[Tamara Keith]

And if there is a theme for this week, it might just be deja vu all over again. Congress and the president are once again staring down a government shutdown, partial this time. Sam, the country had its longest shutdown in history just a few months ago that was largely over healthcare. How is this time different?

[Sam Greenglass]

So the short answer is that this debate hinges on the tactics of federal immigration officers. What we're talking about now is about $1.3 trillion in spending that's on the line that covers not all of the government, but a lot of it. And this was all on track to pass by tonight. But then a federal immigration officer killed a second Minneapolis resident, 37 year old Alex Preddy. Democrats saw this as kind of their only chance to extract some changes to rein in immigration tactics. And what they've convinced Republicans to do here is separate funding for much of the government from money for the Department of Homeland Security, which is going to get extended for just about two weeks. But the House still needs to sign off on this change. And so that is not going to happen in time to avert a shutdown, at least a short one.

[Tamara Keith]

And presumably during that two week period, they would be negotiating policy changes. Ximena, what are these changes the Democrats are trying to extract?

[Ximena Bustillo]

So there's kind of three buckets of asks that Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has outlined. The first has to do with kind of how they're going out into communities and the ways that they're conducting arrests, particularly with warrants. So there's two types of warrants, administrative and judicial. Judicial have to be signed by a judge. Administrative are basically the agency giving itself permission to enter your home. So Democrats want to get rid of that. They also want to change the way that the agency works with local law enforcement on investigations, particularly its own internal oversight. And this is something that Democrats have raised concern about even before the latest two killings of two US Citizens. When does immigration officer go on leave? How is that investigated? There's kind of not a lot of internal checks and balances considered that. A lot of the oversight bodies within DHS were completely gutted during the broader effort to reduce the size of the federal workforce. And so Democrats are interested in looking into that. And then the third thing is mandating clear identification, banning homemade masks on faces, and mandating that officers wear body cameras.

[Tamara Keith]

Sam, as you said, these asks are not necessarily new, but is there a sense that Republicans are more willing to engage on some of this?

[Sam Greenglass]

Yeah, a little bit. You know, after this second fatal shooting, you know, even some Republicans were expressing alarm about what was happening in Minnesota. And this was coming not just from your typical critics within the party, the people we hear from a lot on some of these issues. There were calls for investigations and hearings. You know, even Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said Democrats are probably right about needing some reforms here. And we have seen this before, like with the administration's actions in Venezuela, where we had Republicans expressing concern in the first hours and days after some action by President Trump and his administration. But we also pretty quickly saw some willingness this time from Republican leadership to actually take action around some of these Democratic demands. And what they did is they agreed to split these bills apart, to cleave off Department of Homeland Security funding from everything else, which is what Democrats were were requesting as their path forward. And as to why this is happening, and I think Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina summed up why pretty well.

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's terrible. It's making the president look bad on policies that he won on. He won on a strong message about immigration. And now nobody's talking about that. They're not talking about securing the border. They're talking about the incompetence of the leader of Homeland Security and the other people. These people are amateurs. They gotta deescalate there and treat These communities with some respect.

[Tamara Keith]

And we should remind everyone that Thom Tillis is now a Republican retiring. I think that is like a different category of Republican senator. The are retiring and more free to speak their mind. And he is empowered by being on the way out. So him and up. We've got a Republican senator here, Republican senator there. A little bit of movement. Does this mean that this is all gonna come together easily? I feel like we've seen this show before.

[Ximena Bustillo]

It's not even together right now. I mean, to be clear, at the time we are taping this podcast, the Senate has not even voted on the deal that they have brokered with the president. So we aren't together right now.

[Tamara Keith]

To be clear, you're telling me everything's falling apart.

[Ximena Bustillo]

But I think that, like, let's speak in hypotheticals. Senate passes it, House passes it, and then clock starts on DHS only, and they have two weeks to renegotiate dhs. I mean, they're gonna take those two weeks to fully talk through what's gonna be included and what's not gonna be included. And of course, if Democrats get some wins, Republicans might want to add some things to that pile as well. And there is the risk of a legislative slippery slope where this. This suddenly becomes immigration reform all of a sudden, immigration enforcement reform. However, the other thing that is interesting in the timing here is as Sam mentioned, right after that second shooting, there was suddenly the scheduling of a slew of congressional oversight hearings. And two of those hearings out of House Homeland and Senate Homeland will take place on the Tuesday and Thursday that the DHS funding bill would expire. And so me is wondering if the impact of the Predis shooting will lose its salience over the course of the next two weeks. You know, the further we've gotten away from it, the less Republicans have, like, spoken out. You know, people have kind of toned down their language. You know, it's a little bit more of a wait and see what the White House does on the ground in Minneapolis. But it might all come back into the headlines when you have the head of ice, you have the head of border Patrol, you have the head of U.S. citizenship and Immigration Service back to back testifying and facing what I do anticipate to be some hard questions also from Republicans, seeing as the funding and there is broader criticism than ever before. So, you know, we could see this suddenly spur up again in about two weeks.

[Tamara Keith]

All right, so there's a lot for us to be watching. And, you know, I just thinking back to the last shutdown, you know, eventually Democrats caved, or at least enough Democrats caved on the health care subsidy fight to reopen the government. They agreed to the promise of a vote on subsidies without the guarantee of passage. So could this two weeks come close and then, you know, some version of that happens where they're, they're promised to vote somewhere off in the distance? Sam?

[Sam Greenglass]

Yeah, I mean, this is kind of a question that I have had all week, namely why these members who backed down last time were willing to risk another shutdown fight again now. And so I put that question to Senator Jackie Rosen, Democrat of Nevada. She was one of these five who broke with her party last fall to reopen the government. But this time she said she was willing to risk a shutdown over ICE tactics.

[Ximena Bustillo]

ICE is out of control. Donald Trump is out of control. His tyrannical government, his cruel cabinet, who the hell do they think they are? We have a bill of Rights.

[Sam Greenglass]

So Democrats here think the public is on their side and that this moment is really spurring anger and passion on both sides of the AIs and that this maybe strikes at something more fundamental about the direction of the country in a way that the health subsidies debate did not. But Tam, I think you're right that this could all amount to nothing at the end, because we have seen time and time again where there's these glimmers of bipartisan talks and maybe there's something that everyone can get together and pass into law and then it doesn't happen in the end.

[Tamara Keith]

There's a House of Representatives where Republicans have an incredibly narrow majority, and there has been a fair bit of rumbling that they don't like this. They come back Monday night. What happens next? Is there a risk that this short term weekend government shutdown becomes something else?

[Sam Greenglass]

Yeah. So like we've been saying, the House still needs to sign off on this plan to split DHS funding from everything else. And the House is not until next week. So that's kind of what's causing this potential for at least a short shutdown. Now, House speaker might, Mike Johnson has said the House will do its job, they will get this done. But you know, that is still not a totally settled question, especially with these narrow margins. And then, of course, there's this bigger task that Jimena has been talking about about looking at reforms and could additional ass from different members be inserted into this process and gum up the works here? And so there are a lot of unknowns headed into next week.

[Tamara Keith]

The one thing that might weigh in favor of the House moving this deal forward is the president himself. He is very influential. And last night he put his stamp of approval on this deal to separate out the Homeland Security funding. He wrote on Truth Social, hopefully both Republicans and Democrats will give a very much needed bipartisan yes vote. Typically, he has been able to get House Republicans to take votes they don't want to take. He has had incredible influence over them. So he clearly does not want an extended government shutdown, certainly not over this issue.

[Sam Greenglass]

And I think this is something that makes this fight potentially different from the fight last fall over the health subsidies. Democrats were constantly asking President Trump to weigh in to get involved in cutting a deal to extend the subsidies, and that never happened.

[Tamara Keith]

So what will both of you be watching for in the coming days?

[Ximena Bustillo]

You know, in the coming days and weeks? You know, I'll be really looking at how Republicans are reacting to Democrats demands because a week ago there were no talks of these demands. And these are not new demands. They're not new ideas that have come from immigration advocates or Democrats, but they were not at all being considered for immediate passage. And so the next two weeks will really be about how are Republicans taking this moment as a salient moment to pass legislation. Are they thinking that everything is fixed, good and dandy? What is gonna their posture going through the next two weeks?

[Sam Greenglass]

Yeah. And as Ximena, I think, nodded at earlier, what else happens in the next two weeks? Just in the last couple of months, we've seen so many quick news cycles, from talking every day about health subsidies to talking every day about Venezuela to talking about Greenland to now we're talking about immigration. But is that going to stay the case for the next two weeks or is some other issue gonna pop up on the national radar? And then just in the short term, if we do have a short term shutdown here, you know, it's not gonna be exactly like the last one because Congress has already funded a bunch of agencies through September. So, for example, the Department of Agriculture is already funded, so we're not gonna see food stamps running out. But there are still some pretty big agencies that are unfunded after tonight, you know, the Pentagon, Health and Human Services, Housing, and of course, Homeland Security. And so will we see some little short term effects even if, you know, we're not going to see federal workers missing paychecks if this is just a short shutdown?

[Ximena Bustillo]

All right.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, we will keep watching and we will keep updating here on the NPR Politics podcast. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, relitigating the 2020 election.

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[Tamara Keith]

Support to ensure that the reporting and programs you depend on thrive. Make a recurring donation today to get special access to more than 20 NPR podcasts. Perks like sponsor free listening, bonus episodes, early access and more. So start supporting what you Love today at plus.npr.org and we're back. Be sure to join us on Monday when we'll have a conversation about Kevin Warsh, the president's pick to be the new chairman of the Federal reserve. And now NPR's political reporter Stephen Fowler is here along with NPR's senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro. Hello.

[Stephen Fowler]

Hey.

Hello.

[Tamara Keith]

We're going to turn now to Georgia, where the FBI raided the election center in Fulton County. That's where Atlanta is. It's in connection with the 2020 presidential election, which Joe Biden lawfully. President Trump continues to claim falsely that it was stolen from him. Here he was earlier this month in Davos, Switzerland.

[Stephen Fowler]

And it wouldn't have started if the 2020 US presidential election weren't rigged. It was a rigged election. Everybody now knows that they found out. People will soon be prosecuted for what they did. It's probably breaking news, but it should be.

[Tamara Keith]

So, Stephen, you have been covering the 2020 election for, I guess we're going on for six years now. Is this raid what he was talking about?

[Stephen Fowler]

It is what he has been talking about for the past five plus years. In fact, when I look at my calendar, I don't see the year 2026. I see 2026 because that's how long it has been dealing with the claims of election fraud in the presidential election. And Georgia has been one of the places where Trump has focused on his loss and the effort to overturn the loss and the effort to hold people accountable for not overturning it for him. And this is the culmination of that or the latest culmination, I should say. Earlier this week, the Federal Bureau of Investigation rolled up to the Fulton county elections warehouse just outside of Atlanta. They had a search warrant and they took about 650ish boxes of balance of tabulation tapes of other documents related to the 2020 election that were sitting in a warehouse.

[Tamara Keith]

Do you have any idea what the rationale is or what they're looking for?

[Stephen Fowler]

Specifically, it is a search warrant that has an FBI affidavit attached to it. That affidavit is under seal. The FBI, when we asked them for comment and confirmation, declined to answer any questions. But if you look at the search warran, there are two different federal statutes mentioned. One deals with the destruction of public records related to elections after a 2ish year period. And the other deals with counting and tabulating fraudulent ballots that you allegedly know are fraudulent. So those are some clues. It's important to zoom back five plus years to the 2020 election. There were a number of claims about how Fulton county ran its election that were based in conspiracies based on false claims. There was everything from allegations of suitcases, of ballots being brought out from under the table, to a fake water main break, to claims that any vote that wasn't cast in person on election day was probably fake and not tied to a person. None of those things are true. And, and the nebulous nature of this raid and the silence afterwards, it's kind of part of the point because there has been this mystique around the 2020 election. And like Trump said, people will soon be prosecuted for what they did. What people? Who knows?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Before people jump to any belief that there's merit to a lot of this, one of those conspiracies that you brought up, Rudy Giuliani, the president's then lawyer, was ordered to pay $148 million to two elections workers because he accused them of bringing ballots in on suitcases. So people have been, you know, looking to put something on Fulton county, to put something on Georgia because Trump wants legitimacy. He lost the state. It has been litigated. There have been dozens of court cases across the country. All that the Trump campaign lost as far as whether or not there were any ballots that were determined to be unlawful. And this is just something that he has still not been able to get a win for. And he's continued to be irritated by the fact that he lost the state and that he lost the 2020 election. I also think it's important to point out that state officials were Republicans who were running this election. It's been audited, it's been looked at, and they have taken a lot of hits for standing up to Trump.

[Tamara Keith]

I guess we should point out that Fulton county is a Democratic county.

[Stephen Fowler]

Fulton county is the state's most populous county. It is a heavily Democratic county. It is a place where there is not a lot of support for Donald Trump and his policies on a good day. But with the case of this election, there were people who just could not fathom the idea that a Democratic city and a Democratic county voted for a Democratic presidential candidate.

[Tamara Keith]

I want to go back a step to something that Domenico said, which is that states administer their own elections. The federal government doesn't play a role in that process. So what is the implication here of the feds now getting involved in this way?

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's an election year, and part of what people are concerned about who are good election watchers, is that Trump is trying to, you know, say that the elections are biased. He's been already pushing this line that the polls are wrong, that pollster should be sued because he's at a vulnerable political point, which I would say, by the way, he and the White House recognize the position that he's in because you saw him back down on two major things in the last couple of weeks related to Greenland and the government, the partial government shutdown. So I think his team is well aware of, of the difficult position that he and Republicans are in. And it feels like being able, you know, him being able to say, oh, see these elections, there's still bad stuff going on. You can't trust the results, is a way to undermine the election integrity in the country.

[Tamara Keith]

And it's fascinating because he is also personally saying, well, you know, presidents, their party does bad in the midterms. It's just history. And yet he is doing everything he can, including pushing states to do partisan gerrymandering and then punishing them if they don't. All of that is about trying to fight against the very real possibility that Republicans will lose power in these midterms.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah. Which, you know, he has even said, look, it's not a partisan thing. Republicans and Democratic presidents have it happen to them. It's true that that's the case, but clearly this is something that still bothers him. It sticks in his craw. It's not like he won reelection in 2024 and was able to say, I won people back over. He's instead to continue to say, no, no, no, I won that election, even though he didn't. That's the big lie of Trump's existence on the political scene. And he's looking for a way to save face, to have his legacy. And you know that it's important to him because he has his Director of National Intelligence, who was there in Tulsi Gabbard, and people are asking, why is she there?

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. So let's just be clear. She was there in Georgia as the FBI was executing this search warrant, and she's the Director of National Intelligence. Like, what does that have to do with election integrity.

[Ximena Bustillo]

Right.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And national intelligence is not supposed to cross over with domestic issues in general. They are looking at foreign intelligence nexuses, and that's usually their job. In fact, Mark Warner, a Democrat from Virginia, Democratic senator who's on the Intelligence Committee ranking member, said in a statement that either Director Gabbard believes there is a legitimate foreign intelligence nexus, in which case she's in clear violation of her obligation under the law to keep the Intelligence Committee fully and currently informed of relevant national security concerns, or she's once again demonstrating her utter lack of fitness for the office that she holds by injecting the nonpartisan intelligence community she's supposed to be leading into a domestic political stunt designed to legitimize conspiracy theories that undermine our democracy.

[Tamara Keith]

And as worked up as Senator Warner is about how this is a really big problem, the maga, right, is, like, so excited, Stephen, that she's there, because that means they're really gonna get to the bottom of it.

[Stephen Fowler]

In the last five years, I have tracked so many different storylines and claims and allegations about what happened in Fulton County. There have been more than 60 court cases in states like Georgia and across the country that found no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election. There were claims made, claims investigated, claims put to rest that have festered and continue to grow. And now, in the midterm election year, a major priority of the administration is fanning the flames of those conspiracies, telling people that they shouldn't trust the election results from before. And the last time that happened, in 2022, in the midterms, a lot of his supporters stayed home. I don't know if that's going to be the case this time, but it is notable with everything else going on, you know, Trump went to Iowa earlier this week to talk about the economy. Now we're talking about ballots.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And for the Director of National Intelligence Office's part, their reasoning sounds a little bit like trying to fit a square peg in a circular hole. But they say that Director Gabbard recognizes that election security is essential for the integrity of our republic and our nation's security, which is why she's. They're trying to identify vulnerabilities in critical infrastructure and protecting against exploitation.

[Tamara Keith]

All right, well, Stephen, we've got to let you go, but thank you so much for coming on the pod.

[Stephen Fowler]

Okay, talk soon.

[Tamara Keith]

And we're going to take one more break, and then it's time for Can't Let It Go.

[Sarah McCammon]

This week on Consider this ICE agents in Minnesota now reporting to Tom Homan, the architect of the president's family separation policy. Who does Homan report to?

[Ximena Bustillo]

Up until now it's been Stephen Miller, but I think the administration is seeing how much trouble listening to Miller has.

[Sarah McCammon]

Gotten them in when it comes to public opinion. This week on Consider this Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Sam Greenglass]

This week on Up first, more violence in Minneapolis. Democrats say they will block a spending bill in the Senate after another deadly ice shooting. How will Republicans respond? And could the Trump administration rethink its strategy on immigration? We'll keep you posted every morning with three stories you need to know to start your day up. First, listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.

[Tamara Keith]

And we're back. And our co host Sarah McCammon is here. Hey, Sarah.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hi, Tam.

[Tamara Keith]

And it's time for Can't Let It Go, the part of the pod where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about politics or otherwise. And once again, I have a political can't let it go, which means I get to go first.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You apparently can't let go of politics. You need other hobbies, Tam.

[Tamara Keith]

I do. And I would really like to have the time for other hobbies. But instead I get my comedy from the President of the United States. And here is an example of this. You might remember that he has been caught nodding off at White House events and during a Cabinet meeting. And there was quite a news cycle about, oh geez, the 79 year old President is sleeping.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, that's relatable though.

[Tamara Keith]

So this week he had another Cabinet meeting and he said, you know what, we're going to make this one shorter. This was, he said this 25 minutes into a monologue. Here we go.

[Stephen Fowler]

We're not going to go through the whole table. Because the last time we had a press conference, it lasted for three hours. And some people said he closed his eyes. Look, it got pretty boring. I love these people. I love these people. But there's a lot of people. It was a little bit at the boring side.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, he certainly recognizes the optics. I'm sure that somebody showed him video of it and, you know, what are you gonna do? He falls asleep. Not a good look. It's hot.

[Sarah McCammon]

He's always pushing back against the idea that he's getting older.

[Tamara Keith]

When you're a little defensive about something, sometimes you sort of over explain it. And that is what happened.

[Stephen Fowler]

But I didn't sleep. I just closed him because I wanted to get the hell out of here. Some of them, I didn't sleep, by the way. I don't sleep much, let me tell you. But, you know, it's funny, some of them got me in a blink, you know, when you go like. And they took me as at the closed segment of my cycle, they said, he's sleeping.

[Tamara Keith]

Domenico, what can't you let go of?

[Domenico Montanaro]

What I think most of the country can't let go of, which is ice and snow.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, yeah.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, ugh. You know, I was out there this week and with a sledgehammer.

[Tamara Keith]

Thank you, by the way.

[Sarah McCammon]

Because no one else.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Luckily for me, the people next door had had their kitchen renovated, and one of the workers left behind a sledgehammer. And they said, just put this on your side of the fence. And I was like, okay. So I had it there for a couple months and haven't looked at it. And then when I was looking at the ice wall that was around my car.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I just thought, what am I gonna use? And it reminded me of being a kid where I grew up in Flushing in New York. We lived on a pretty busy street, and when the plow would come through, our driveway would get like a Game of Thrones level ice wall, you know, six to eight feet high.

[Tamara Keith]

What?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Okay, it's not Game of Thrones level exactly, but six to eight feet of ice is pretty tough. Luckily, my grandfather was a brick mason, and he had a massive old Ford LTD trunk full of construction shovels, all the tools you need, 100%. So when I was 10 years old, he was like shoving shovel in my face and he said, and I just have advice from my grandfather that he gave to me, to everybody else out there who is still shoveling their cars out and he used to do it with the Italian accent. No, kill yourself. Take your time. Pace yourself. Otherwise you're going to be inside and not helping anymore. So I will just say pace yourself. Have the right tools, please.

[Tamara Keith]

I read somewhere that people over 45 shouldn't shovel snow.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know what? That was another thing I started thinking about because I was like a snow shoveling machine in my earlier days. And I was out there this week and I was like, ooh, my shoulder hurts. And how my finger has a weird spasm. Like it's getting weird.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah.

[Sarah McCammon]

Welcome to middle age.

[Tamara Keith]

Right, Sarah? What can't you let go of?

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, my can't let it go is actually about letting go because I am saying goodbye to this podcast and to npr. This has been in the works for a while, but I will miss you all. But it's time for a change for me. So I will not be able to let go of many, many memories of working with both of you and so many wonderful people on this desk and, and meeting many listeners all over the country and lots and lots of voters and lots of meaningful interviews. I won't take the time now to go through all of them. But, you know, I think back to the very beginning of my career as a reporter in Nebraska, talking with people who, I mean, this is going way back, but lost children in the Iraq war.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Sarah McCammon]

And couples who were going through the recession. And, you know, fast forward to, you know, so many memories from the 2016 campaign. It has been a very meaningful more than two decades in public radio. I will miss you all, but I am looking forward to what's next, and I'll have more to say about that soon. I will be on All Things Considered this weekend hosting one last time before I go.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, I remember when you first came on the desk and, you know, you'd reported on politics locally but doing it nationally. You know, I think you had some anxiety over, you know, going in and talking and putting together the right story, even though you always did. But you talk about Iraq and war zones and people recover from that. I think, though, one of your more difficult assignments that I had to coach you through was going to Staten Island.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, my gosh.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Kid from Kansas City.

[Tamara Keith]

That's right.

[Sarah McCammon]

I was like, what do I expect? I think it was maybe my second or third time in New York City ever.

[Tamara Keith]

That's amazing.

[Sarah McCammon]

It was a very memorable Trump rally on Staten Island.

[Tamara Keith]

I can't let you go.

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, I will stay in touch. I will not be too far.

[Announcer]

No.

[Sarah McCammon]

And I just most of all, want to say thanks to all the listeners who support our work and who've been just incredible supporters of public radio from my early member station days to today. So grateful for that.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, we, we bid you adieu. Done. Great work. Love you. And our fans.

[Tamara Keith]

Yes, there we go.

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, I'll be listening and cheering you on.

[Tamara Keith]

Thank you. All right. That's all for today. Our executive producer is Mathani Muturi. Our producers are Casey Morell and Bria Suggs. Our editor is Rachel Bay. Special thanks to Lexi Schapitl and Dana Farrington. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And I'm Sarah McCammon, political correspondent for now.

[Tamara Keith]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Domenico Montanaro]

On Ye Gods with Scott Carter here from the faithful.

[Ximena Bustillo]

I told my very Catholic mother that.

[Tamara Keith]

She needs to meet Jesus, the faithless.

[Sam Greenglass]

I just so don't believe in God.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And the fearless. Serve people, connect with people. That's how we thrive. If life's a mystery, we investigate whodunit.

[Tamara Keith]

I pray to the humor God.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Listen religiously to Ye Gods with Scott Carter wherever you get your podcasts on.

[Tamara Keith]

NPR's Wild Card podcast, Oprah on the art of being alone. Are you good at being alone?

[Sam Greenglass]

Oh, my God, I'm a master at it.

[Ximena Bustillo]

Tell me more.

[Sam Greenglass]

I cherish it. I revel in it. I I can't wait to be alone.

[Tamara Keith]

Watch or listen to that wildcard conversation on the NPR app or on YouTube @NPRWildcard.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Venezuela, Iran, Greenland. World events move quickly. Make sense of them with State of the World from npr. We bring you on the ground reporting from around the globe in just a few minutes every weekday. Listen to State of Art the the World on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.