Another Turn In Trump's Economic Policy

Summary

Summary of NPR Politics Podcast Episode: "Another Turn In Trump's Economic Policy"

Release Date: May 23, 2025
Host: Miles Parks, Domenico Montanaro
Guest: Scott Horsley, NPR Chief Economics Correspondent

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1. Trump's New Tariff Proposals

Timestamp: 02:19 – 05:04

In this episode, NPR's Miles Parks and Domenico Montanaro engage in a detailed discussion with Scott Horsley about President Donald Trump's latest tariff initiatives. Trump has recently escalated his trade tensions by announcing new tariffs targeting the European Union and specific American companies like Apple.

Scott Horsley explains, “The president went on social media. He complained that trade talks with the European Union have been going nowhere. And so he threatened that come June 1, he's going to hit all European imports with a 50% tariff, a 50% import tax.” Additionally, Trump has proposed a 25% import tax on iPhones if Apple doesn't relocate its manufacturing to the United States, a move that could significantly increase consumer prices. This marks a notable shift, as smartphones have largely been exempt from previous trade disputes.

2. Market Reactions and Economic Implications

Timestamp: 05:04 – 07:30

The introduction of these tariffs has stirred volatility in both the stock and bond markets. Scott Horsley highlights the broader economic repercussions, noting, “The bond market is sort of what polices the government's credit worthiness. And, of course, a week ago we had Moody's credit rating agency come out and say, we don't think the US Deserves a AAA bond rating anymore because it's got this huge government debt...” The threat of higher tariffs coupled with Moody's downgrade has led to increased borrowing costs for the government and private sector alike. This translates to higher interest rates for everyday consumers, affecting mortgages, credit cards, and business loans.

Ann Marie Baldonado adds, “We saw home mortgage rates climb up this week as the bond market moved. Some other private interest rates are also pegged to the bond market. So whether you're carrying a balance on your credit card or trying to get a business loan or borrow money for a car loan, all those things are affected by what's happening in the bond market.” The economic instability caused by these policies is leading to decreased investor confidence and increased financial strain on average Americans.

3. House Tax Bill and Political Repercussions

Timestamp: 07:30 – 09:28

The conversation shifts to the recent House bill that seeks to extend the 2017 tax cuts. Scott Horsley explains, “The bill that was passed in the House this week would just exacerbate that debt. It cuts taxes, so we see less revenue coming in. And the spending cuts are very small compared to the big revenue cuts and the tax cuts.” This legislative move is seen as a defensive measure to prevent tax increases but is unlikely to provide the tangible financial relief voters expect.

Ann Marie Baldonado critiques the bill’s effectiveness and political ramifications: “The bill is both a policy disaster and moral monstrosity, adds trillions to the deficit, defunds Planned Parenthood, guts Medicaid, slashes food stamps, raises costs on millions of families, and gives the richest Americans a massive tax cut.” She anticipates that Democrats will leverage these points to challenge Republicans, emphasizing the bill's negative impact on vulnerable populations and its contribution to the national deficit.

4. Reshoring Manufacturing: Showerheads and Apple Example

Timestamp: 10:57 – 17:13

Scott Horsley delves into the feasibility of Trump's goal to bring manufacturing back to the United States by examining a case study involving showerhead manufacturing. He describes an experiment where a Texas-based entrepreneur attempted to relocate production from Vietnam and China to the U.S. Only to find that domestically produced showerheads would cost 85% more than their imported counterparts. “There is a limited willingness on the part of American consumers to pay more for products just because they're manufactured in the United States, especially if we're talking about something like a showerhead where it doesn't seem like, you know, national security's involved or anything like that.”

Ann Marie Baldonado extends this analysis to larger corporations like Apple: “An analyst said that iPhones could then cost $3,500. No one's gonna pay 3,500 dollars for an iPhone in the United States when right now they cost about a thousand or less.” The high costs associated with reshoring are unsustainable, making such policies impractical for both small businesses and large manufacturers.

5. Small Business Uncertainty

Timestamp: 14:28 – 17:13

The uncertainty surrounding tariff policies has created significant challenges for small businesses considering reshoring. Scott Horsley emphasizes the difficulty of making long-term business decisions amidst Trump's unpredictable tariff stance: “If you think a week or a month later the president's going to backtrack, as he has done now repeatedly over these last four months...” The constant threat of tariffs without consistent implementation makes it financially risky for businesses to invest in domestic manufacturing.

6. Manufacturing as a Campaign Issue

Timestamp: 15:42 – 17:13

Manufacturing remains a pivotal issue in political campaigns, largely due to Trump's persistent focus on tariffs and economic nationalism. Ann Marie Baldonado observes, “It's a huge, hugely important thing on the campaign trail because it's a great political backdrop. You know, building things, making stuff. It's tangible.” However, she notes the disparity between political rhetoric and economic reality: “Those jobs are unlikely to be coming back in any real large scale way the way that they had been in the 50s and 60s because automation has taken over as much as it has.” The automation of manufacturing processes reduces the potential for significant job returns, undermining the promises made on the campaign trail.

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Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the current state of Trump's economic policies, particularly focusing on tariffs and their broader impact on both the market and everyday Americans. Scott Horsley's insights highlight the complexities and unintended consequences of aggressive trade policies, while Ann Marie Baldonado underscores the political fallout and unrealistic expectations surrounding manufacturing resurgence. The discussion paints a picture of economic instability fueled by inconsistent policies, posing challenges for businesses and taxpayers alike.

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Notable Quotes:

• Scott Horsley [02:19]: “The president threatened that come June 1, he's going to hit all European imports with a 50% tariff, a 50% import tax.”

• Ann Marie Baldonado [07:57]: “The bill is both a policy disaster and moral monstrosity, adds trillions to the deficit, defunds Planned Parenthood, guts Medicaid, slashes food stamps, raises costs on millions of families, and gives the richest Americans a massive tax cut.”

• Scott Horsley [12:48]: “No one's gonna pay 3,500 dollars for an iPhone in the United States when right now they cost about a thousand or less.”

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a clear and detailed overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

This is FRESH AIR contributor Ann Marie Baldonado.

[Tanya Moseley]

I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play O Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer.

[Miles Parks]

If that makes no sense, that's part of the point.

[Tanya Moseley]

You can find my interview on the FRESH AIR podcast.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Hi, this is RM in Southern California. I'm about to open a large envelope. The return address says University of Southern Maine, where I just graduated from the Stonecoast MFA Creative Writing Program. There it is, my diploma in all its calligraphic glory.

[Miles Parks]

This podcast was recorded at 12:38pm on Friday, May 23, 2025.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll probably be revising my thesis novel to pitch to literary agents. Here's the show. That's very dramatic. I bet his novel would be good. Do they not give out degrees anymore in person? Like when you walk?

[Miles Parks]

I was really nervous, honestly, as he was opening it, I was like, oh, God, is it going to be a letter saying he's like missing one credit or something like that and has to like, go back? I was like, oh, fun fact.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I used to go to basketball camp at the University of Southern Maine every summer when I was in high school.

[Miles Parks]

Yeah, well, that's where you got your skills. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Miles Parks]

And NPR chief economics correspondent Scott Horsley is here with us now. Hi, Scott.

[Scott Horsley]

It's great to be with you all. I think some schools withhold the diploma until you return your gown.

[Miles Parks]

Scott knows everything.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Yeah.

[Miles Parks]

Today we want to focus on something. He also knows a lot about the economy and the ever changing messages from Washington that the markets and individual taxpayers are trying to parse out this week. Scott, I want to start with tariffs because there was some news today. President Trump has walked a lot of his tariff proposals back, but today floated new tariffs on the EU and on products made by Apple. Can you walk us through what he's proposing and why?

[Scott Horsley]

So the president went on social media. He complained that trade talks with the European Union have been going nowhere. And so he threatened that come June 1, he's going to hit all European imports with a 50% tariff, a 50% import tax. He also threatened to level a 25% import tax on iPhones if Apple doesn't come around and start making those smartphones here in the United States, which seems unlikely. And interestingly, smartphones have been largely spared from the trade war up until now. So if that were actually to come to pass, that would be a significant price increase.

[Miles Parks]

That was a little confusing to me though, because generally tariffs, I think of tariffs as something you slap on countries, not on companies. Am I wrong there?

[Scott Horsley]

Well, as we've pointed out many times, tariffs are really something you slap on consumers and businesses here in the United States. But we tend to talk about tariffs as being directed at other countries rather than a US Based employer. A very valuable U. S. Based employer.

[Miles Parks]

Yeah. Domenico, how do you see this playing out politically?

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

We've talked so many times on this podcast and Scott could talk about this more, but Wall street really likes stability, consistency. And this is the furthest thing from over the last few months where the markets have just gone up and down based on what seems like Trump's whims.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah. A financial person asked me earlier in the week if the president had learned his lesson from some of the market gyrations he'd caused and that had caused him to walk back some of his tariff warnings earlier. And I said no, I don't think he really has. I think he's still kind of wedded to the tariff model, even though every time he does it, the investor class rebels against him and he sometimes has to retreat. I guess you could also argue that investors haven't necessarily learned their lesson because last week, after they relaxed a lot of the triple digit tariffs against goods from China, Wall street really rallied. We had an enormous rally in the stock market last week. It was as if investors thought, oh, the trade war is over. And now they've been reminded that, no, maybe, maybe not.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Maybe he feels like he has some wiggle room here because the market did rally and thinking that the market was just going to be with him. But again, we're seeing signs today where the market is on the decline midday based on this news. And you know, it's one of those things you would think that Trump would look at not just the stock market, but also his very low approval ratings when it comes to tariffs. I mean, our latest NPR PBS News Marist poll had him at a 34% approval rating for his handling of tariffs and 39% on the economy, just a total inverse of what it was in the Trump first term.

[Scott Horsley]

And it's not just tariffs that are weighing on the market this week. We've also seen a lot of volatility in the bond market, which we talk less about usually than the stock market. But the bond market is sort of what polices the government's credit worthiness. And of course, a week ago we had Moody's credit rating agency come out and say, we don't think the US Deserves a AAA bond rating anymore because it's got this huge government debt and there doesn't seem to be any movement to address that debt. And of course, the bill that was passed in the House this week would just exacerbate that debt. It cuts taxes, so we see less revenue coming in. And the spending cuts are very small compared to the big revenue cuts and the tax cuts. So the bond market doesn't like that. And that also weighed on the stock market.

[Miles Parks]

How does that actually impact the average person?

[Scott Horsley]

Traditionally, the market for US Government bonds has been sort of the safest possible investment. People put their money in government treasury bonds when they're worried about something else. But with the Moody's downgrade and the reaction in the markets to the House bill this week, there seems to be a sense that maybe US Government debt is not as safe and credit worthy as we thought it was. And so we're going to demand a higher interest rate in order to loan money to continue bankrolling these big government deficits. When that happens, it means the government has to pay more in interest. So we now see interest payments are the second biggest item on the government budget after Social Security. We're spending more on interest than we are on defense and Medicare. Anything else other than Social Security. But it also raises borrowing cost for private borrowers. So if you're looking for a home mortgage, for example, that's typically tied to the yield on 10 year treasuries, we saw home mortgage rates climb up this. They were already high, but they climbed higher this week as the bond market moved. Some other private interest rates are also pegged to the bond market. So whether you're carrying a balance on your credit card or trying to get a business loan or borrow money for a car loan, all those things are affected by what's happening in the bond market.

[Miles Parks]

Gosh, it makes my personal finance brain really stressed out to hear you talk about how much money the country's paying in interest compared to defense and things like that.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah, none of this is good for us as taxpayers or as, you know, people who have to borrow money for our own personal expenses.

[Miles Parks]

Domenico, I want to get your perspective on the big bill that passed in the U.S. house this week. It really just extended the tax cuts from 2017 into the future, should it become law. I guess. I wonder if that means that the average taxpayer next year is not really going to feel any different than they did last year. Is there going to be some big win, I guess, from voters if this bill becomes law?

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Probably not for Republicans, to be honest with you. I mean, if, you know, Republicans were hoping for that, the point you make is exactly right. People are not going to feel a tax, you know, cut the way that they might have in 2017 and felt good about it because they, you know, got more money in their pockets. This just was from a defensive posture. It prevents people seeing a tax increase. And, you know, that's not something people would generally vote on. They would vote on whether or not prices are too high or if they're coming down. If your taxes are too high or if they're coming down. Things staying at stasis and where they are is not likely to be something that is going to Republicans are going to see very much political benefit from and you can see Democrats already sort of sharpening the knives because of the debate around Medicaid and the potential cuts for work requirements, etc. And the millions of people who might be left off Medicaid rolls because of it. I was reading one newsletter from Dan Pfeiffer, who was a former Obama advisor, campaign adviser, and White House advisor. He put it this way and seems like a 2026 message to me. The bill is both a policy disaster and moral monstros, adds trillions to the deficit, defunds Planned Parenthood, guts Medicaid, slashes food stamps, raises costs on millions of families, and gives the richest Americans a massive tax cut. I think we're going to be hearing a lot of those talking points over the next year from Democrats.

[Miles Parks]

Okay, well, time for a quick break. More economics when we get back.

[Susan Davis]

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[Susan Davis]

Learn more about Made in Cookware at M a d e I-n cookware.com I'm.

[Tanya Moseley]

Tanya Moseley, co host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here, our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and whyy.

[Miles Parks]

And we're back. And Scott, when we think about many aspects of Donald Trump's economic policies, tariffs kind of being the most notable one, I think the stated goal really is to get manufacturing back to the United States. But you recently reported a story that looked at this issue in depth through the lens of shower heads. And I'm specifically there was an experiment as part of your story, and I'm hoping you could just kind of walk us through that.

[Scott Horsley]

Yeah, this is how I got an education on the showerhead manufacturing process. There's a fellow based in Austin, Texas, who markets shower heads that are made right now in Vietnam and China. And so when the president leveled big tariffs on Asian imports this spring, this guy went out and said maybe it's time to look and see if there's a business case for moving that production to the United States. So he scouted around to see how much more it might cost. It cost a lot more. And then he wanted to know if his customers would be willing to pay more in order to get a showerhead that's domestically produced instead of imported from Vietnam or China. So he actually set up a website where you could choose, just like you could choose the finish you wanted, the color you wanted your showerhead to be, you could also choose to have it made domestically. But if you did that, you'd have to pay more. You'd have to pay about 85% more for the domestically made showerhead than the imported showerhead. You can question whether that would always be the result. But I do think this suggests that there is a limited willingness on the part of American consumers to pay more for products just because they're manufactured in the United States, especially if we're talking about something like a showerhead where it doesn't seem like, you know, national security's involved or anything like that.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Yeah. And the thing is, a lot of those kinds of prices could be even higher. I mean, you think about what Trump is doing to Apple now in trying to add on tariffs and say that Apple has to make their iPhones in the United States. You know, one analyst said that iPhones could then cost $3,500. I mean, no one's gonna pay 3,500 dol for an iPhone in the United States when right now they cost about a thousand or less. And that is the issue when you have supply chains and, you know, factories that have been built over generations and are now, you know, being able to use cheaper labor overseas. The restructuring of the US Economy that it would take to be able to bring that kind of manufacturing back to the United States so that things are also made fairly cheaply, is just not possible.

[Scott Horsley]

And I will say that, you know, we do still actually manufacture quite a lot of stuff in the United States, but the stuff that we manufacture in the United States tends to be fairly high value and fairly low labor content. That is, it's highly automated. We have very efficient factories. They don't need a lot of people. So the kinds of things that take a lot of labor to make, you know, stuffed toys and that sort of thing, that's just not going to be done in the United States. This notion that you're going to have this massive reshoring of manufacturing in the US Is probably an illusion. In fact, the analyst who gave that price for the iPhone what it would cost to build an iPhone in the US said, that's a fairytale to think iPhone manufacturing is going to come back to the United States.

[Miles Parks]

I mean, we talked about how this back and forth, back and forth on the tariffs has played out over the last couple of weeks in the stock market. But I'm wondering, as you have conversations with these small business owners, Scott, how this uncertainty is playing out with them.

[Scott Horsley]

Oh, yeah. I mean, let's suppose you did want to move your manufacturing someplace. That's going to take time, that's going to take capital, that's going to cost money. And are you going to do that? If you think a week or a month later the president's going to backtrack, as he has done now repeatedly over these last four months. He's come out of the gate with these, you know, huge tariffs, and then he gets dinged by the stock market and he backtracks. He's done it with the U.S. canada tariffs. He's done it with the quote, unquote, reciprocal tariffs. We'll see. I suspect he's probably going to have to deal with this threat of a EU tariff. Even if you believe that this could happen, that this would actually encourage more people to relocate factories in the US it would take a long time for that to happen and a lot of money. And that means people need to feel like the tariff environment is going to be in place for a while. It's not something that they're going to do in 30 days.

[Miles Parks]

Well, Domenico, it does feel like US manufacturing is an issue in every single political campaign that I can remember. Why does this sustain?

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Well, first of all, right now it's because it's a Trump bugaboo. I mean, it's something that he's talked about for a long time, for decades, about being able to slap tariffs on other countries to be able to bring money into the United States and try to bring manufacturing back. And manufacturing is a huge, hugely important thing on the campaign trail because it's a great political backdrop. You know, building things, making stuff. It's tangible. You see a bridge. You're right.

[Miles Parks]

The commercials of the people like hammering stuff. Yeah.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

You can rev an engine of a car. You know, those factory jobs were also part of this, like, lore of American history, people being able to climb the, you know, the American dream, climb the ladder of the American dream, you know, with good salaried union jobs, pension and benefits. But, you know, like we talked about, those jobs are unlikely to be coming back in any real large scale way the way that they had been in the 50s and 60s because automation has taken over as much as it has. And I'm going to be really curious to see how much of this becomes an issue on the 2026 campaign trail. Republicans have such a narrow majority, but there are only some 40 seats, the cook Political Report finds, between lean Democratic and lean Republican. They're split almost in half by the Democratic and Republican seats. And we're going to see if, you know, this idea that you bring manufacturing back is something that these moderate Republicans are able to convince those voters of.

[Miles Parks]

Right. I do feel like the automation issue makes for a less, a less good commercial. You know, it's a little less fun to watch somebody just at a computer hitting buttons. Right.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

There's a robot moving.

[Miles Parks]

All right. Well, npr, Scott Horsley, thank you so much for walking us through all this.

[Scott Horsley]

Good to be with you.

[Miles Parks]

And we're gonna take one more break and then it's time for Can't Let It Go.

[Tanya Moseley]

Short Wave thinks of science as an invisible force showing up in your everyday life, powering the food you eat, the medicine you, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

Come explore these connections on the Short wave podcast from NPR when Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award.

[Scott Horsley]

He praised it for its historical and moral clarity.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like, like presidential power, aging and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from npr on the Indicator from Planet Money podcast. We're here to help you make sense of the economic news from Trump's tariffs.

[Miles Parks]

It's called in game theory, a trigger strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which sort of has a cowboy esque ring.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

To it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is. For insight. Every weekday, listen to NPR's the Indicator from Planet Money.

[Miles Parks]

And we're back, and we are joined by a special guest, Susan Davis. Hi, Sue.

[Tanya Moseley]

Hello, friends.

[Miles Parks]

And it's time for the part of the show Can't Let It Go, where we talk about things from politics or otherwise that we just cannot let go of. But today, God, I already sound. I feel like I sound sad. The thing we cannot let go of, but that we must, is sue, right?

[Tanya Moseley]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like this is a little bit of a one, two punch for our most loyal podcast listeners. Cause just a couple weeks ago, we were sitting around saying goodbye to Asma. And this week it's my turn. Because today's my last day at npr. I'm heading off into the post news horizon to see what life is like outside the news cycle. But, man, I'm gonna miss you guys.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

She just can't take it anymore.

[Tanya Moseley]

I can let it go, it turns out.

[Miles Parks]

I mean, it really is. I mean, I'm sure all the people listening to this are feeling the same thing, but what a blow for. I mean, I work with you, and I still find myself, if I see on my phone that Sue Davis is doing a story or talking about a thing that I need to understand. I still have that moment that I had 10 years ago where I would be like, oh, I need to listen to that because it will help me understand the thing better than anyone else can. And so I selfishly, just in terms of thinking about politics, am. I don't know how I'm gonna. I might still call you, have you explain things to me.

[Tanya Moseley]

You know, you know, I'm still, you know, I needed to do something outside of politics and outside of news. And I don't entirely know what I'm gonna do, but I knew I needed to take a break. But I say that at the same time, like still loving this stuff and still loving journalism. And I always thought if I went to Leave. If I wanted to step outside of journalism and pursue other things, I wanted to leave happy. I didn't wanna leave, in the words of Marlaison, a desiccated husk. And I feel that way. Like, I still feel. I was driving in this week, and I thought something in. And I was like, oh, that'd be a good story. And I was like, not your problem anymore. I'm gonna email someone else to go do that story. So I still love the work and I still love the people, but it's really just a personal life choice, I think, in the parlance of the people we cover. I'm just ready to spend some more time with my family and my kids, and I'd like to pursue some career stuff that allows me to decide how I spend my time and not have to be so governed by things like breaking news and, you know, 10,000 Slack messages and that kind of stuff. But, guys, I regret to inform you, we're, like, trauma bonded for life. Like, the things we've the last 10 years together. And I've known Domenico even before our NPR time together. Like, man, we've seen some things. So it's been a pleasure being in the news foxhole with you all this time.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

But sue mentioned that we've known each other since before NPR. I mean, it's almost 20 years now. When I look back at the timing, I think we met in 2009, way back on the, like, Tea Party Nation tour.

[Tanya Moseley]

We probably even crossed paths at some point in the 08 campaign.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I read you definitely in 08 when you were working on Wall Street Journal w WSJ wire.

[Tanya Moseley]

Yep.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

And you were at NBC, right, working on First Read. And I had to refresh the wire every day because I wanted to see what Sue's take was and what was the latest thing. To your point, Miles, I still will slack sue something if I'm thinking something in a certain way that maybe I'm, like, 80, 20 sure about. I want to be like, 1000 sure about. I'll ask Sue. And then if Sue's like, no, that's stupid, and here's why. Then I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, let's change course. Because I didn't think about that. So I will definitely miss. Miss you for, you know, the analysis checks and all of that and, like, making our political acumen stronger here because you're not gonna find anybody who has a stronger political acumen than Sue. And I'll miss you for, you know, just the general sense of guidance and friendship overall. I mean, being able to talk to you about what's going on, you know, at work or whatever else. It's just, it's nice to be able to, you know, have a. Somebody who's a gut check.

[Miles Parks]

I have always been so inspired by. I don't know if this is too personal, but, I mean, you are an incredible mother. At the same time, while also that means a lot to me being one of the best political reporters in this business. I do not literally understand how you do it or how you've been able to do both those things. But it was as I was thinking about whether we could start. We're a family of two journalists. And I was like, can we do this? And I was like, I've been watching sue do it like the best of anyone. And so I think that and, and honestly, the advice you gave me before we had our baby, I still think and talk about short and to the point. She was like, if you need a pizza at midnight, if you need a beer at 9am, do it. Whatever you need in that first year, do it. And I feel like I lived by that mantra. Maybe a little too much, but I definitely live by that mantra.

[Tanya Moseley]

The news cycle doesn't show up when you're having a bad day. You still have to prioritize the real human things in life. And I do think, especially in politics. Cause politics is the why, right? You have to understand humanity. Being a good person actually makes you a good political reporter. Because having empathy and an ability to see the world through other people's eyes and shoes, I always thought is one of the hardest things to do in journalism. Like the who, what, when, and where. Take care of himself. It's the why that's always the hardest thing to get at. So being a good person and being a good political reporter, I'd like to believe go hand in hand if you're doing both right.

[Miles Parks]

Well, we are all going to miss you so much, sue, but good luck. Okay, thank you. That's all for today. Our executive producers, Muthoni Muturi, Casey Murrell edits the podcast. Our producer is Bria Seller. And special thanks to Lexi Schapitl. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Tanya Moseley]

And I'm Susan Davis. I covered politics past tense.

[Miles Parks]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Susan Davis]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. Start selling with Shopify today. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run and grow your business. Business without the struggle. Go to shopify.com NPR this message comes from stamps.com stamps.com simplifies your postage needs and adds valuable time back into your workday so you have more flexibility to focus on what only you can do. Go to stamps.com and sign up with code NPR for a special offer.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

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[Tanya Moseley]

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