Budget Battles & Conversations With China

Summary

NPR Politics Podcast – Episode: Budget Battles & Conversations With China Release Date: June 6, 2025
Host: NPR’s Political Reporters
Duration: Approximately 27 minutes

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1. Introduction

The episode opens with Myles Parks, Barbara Sprunt, and Mara Liasson setting the stage for today's discussions. They briefly mention the serene backdrop of Sequoia National Park, which contrasts sharply with the intense political conversations to follow.

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2. President Trump’s "Big, Beautiful" Spending Bill

Overview:
The primary focus of the episode centers on President Trump's ambitious spending package, dubbed the "big, beautiful bill." This legislation aims to encapsulate numerous Republican priorities but faces significant scrutiny due to its projected impact on the federal deficit.

Key Points:

• Deficit Impact: The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the bill will add $2.4 trillion to the federal deficit over a decade (03:32).

• Health Insurance Cuts: An estimated 11 million Americans could lose health insurance primarily due to Medicaid reductions (03:32).

• Republican Messaging vs. CBO Findings: Despite the CBO’s stark figures, many Republicans argue that the bill’s benefits, such as extended tax cuts and economic growth, will offset these costs.

Notable Quotes:

• Barbara Sprunt explains the CBO’s role: “The CBO was established in the 70s mainly to analyze budget implications of proposed bills from Congress. ... The CBO cost estimates are just advisory” (04:32).

• Mara Liasson highlights Republican skepticism: “The only entity that I know of who is saying this bill will reduce the deficit and increase growth is the White House itself” (07:10).

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3. The Trump-Elon Musk Feud

Overview:
A significant subplot in the episode is the escalating feud between President Trump and entrepreneur Elon Musk, which has implications for Republican support of the spending bill.

Key Points:

• Origin of the Feud: Elon Musk has openly criticized the bill, calling it a “disgusting abomination” and stating, “No Republican should vote for it” (01:26).

• Impact on Public Opinion: While Musk’s social media influence is undeniable, it's uncertain if his stance will sway public opinion, especially since a majority of voters reportedly disapprove of the bill (01:26).

• Personalities at Play: Both Trump and Musk are described as having “huge personalities,” making the fallout between them particularly noteworthy (02:36).

Notable Quotes:

• Myles Parks on their dynamic: “These are two people who have huge personalities. I guess I wonder, was part of this sort of breakup that we've seen this week kind of inevitable?” (02:36).

• Barbara Sprunt on the unexpected nature of the feud's escalation: “The way in which it has sort of devolved so quickly and so precariously is a little surprising” (03:17).

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4. Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Analysis

Overview:
Barbara Sprunt delves deeper into the CBO’s role and the significance of its analysis on the spending bill.

Key Points:

• Nonpartisan Nature: The CBO is emphasized as a nonpartisan agency that provides critical budgetary analyses without making policy recommendations (04:32).

• Staff Expertise: With a small team of around 275 staffers, the CBO handles approximately 1,000 bill analyses each year, maintaining objectivity and expertise (04:42).

• Historical Context: The CBO serves as a counterbalance to the executive branch’s Office of Management and Budget, ensuring that budgetary scrutiny remains within Congress (04:32).

Notable Quotes:

• Barbara Sprunt on the CBO’s credibility: “The CBO acts as sort of a congressional counterbalance to what is now the Office of Management and Budget” (04:32).

• Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former CBO Director, on Congress’s reliance on the CBO: “Congress gets to hide behind you and they get to vent at you... It's Washington” (08:53).

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5. Trade Talks with China

Overview:
Emily Feng joins the discussion to shed light on the recent phone call between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping, marking their first conversation since the recent tariff disputes.

Key Points:

• Nature of the Call: The 90-minute dialogue primarily focused on trade issues, with both leaders expressing a desire for improved relations but acknowledging unresolved tensions (11:14).

• Major Outstanding Issues:

  • Taiwan: China's intentions to assert control over the democratic island remain a contentious topic (11:30).

  • Rare Earth Minerals: Critical for various technologies, China’s dominance in refining rare earths poses significant challenges for the U.S. (12:58).

  • Semiconductor Technology: The U.S. continues efforts to restrict China's access to advanced semiconductor technologies (12:54).

• Rare Earth Minerals Explained: These elements are essential for modern electronics and defense technologies. While abundant in the U.S., the lack of refining capacity makes China a crucial player in the global supply chain (12:58).

• Challenges in Negotiations: Trump’s maximalist demands and shifting tariff strategies have hindered progress, with no clear concessions from China (15:31).

Notable Quotes:

• Emily Feng on the rarity and importance of rare earths: “They require things like acids and really nasty chemicals. And China has dominated the world supply of refining these rare earth minerals” (12:58).

• Mara Liasson on Trump’s negotiation style: “He has backed down. He kind of negotiates with himself... he's not getting anywhere” (14:07).

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6. "Can't Let It Go" Segment

Overview:
In this lighter segment, the hosts share personal anecdotes and cultural moments that have left a lasting impression on them.

Highlights:

• Sportsmanship at the French Open: Barbara Sprunt recounts a heartwarming moment of integrity during a match between Carlos Alcaraz and Ben Shelton, where Alcaraz returned a point he initially was credited for, demonstrating commendable sportsmanship (20:50).

• 50th Anniversary of "Jaws": Myles Parks reflects on the enduring legacy of the film "Jaws," including its unintended negative impact on shark populations and Steven Spielberg’s expressed regrets (22:20).

• Ralph Macchio’s Keepsakes: Mara Liasson shares a personal connection to "The Karate Kid," emphasizing the sentimental value of memorabilia and the importance of holding onto meaningful items (25:01).

Notable Quotes:

• Barbara Sprunt on Carlos Alcaraz’s integrity: “He ended up not getting that point. He ended up winning the match overall, but it was just such a nice, lovely moment of sportsmanship” (20:50).

• Myles Parks on Spielberg’s regrets: “Steven Spielberg was actually asked about this on BBC, and he said... I truly and to this day regret the decimation of the shark population because of the book and the film” (23:03).

• Mara Liasson on holding onto memories: “I have a lot of canned goods in my house that have expired... But I believe that just because the date is expired, it doesn't mean that the tuna fish is bad” (25:01).

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Conclusion

The episode offers a comprehensive look into the intricate dance of political maneuvering surrounding President Trump’s spending bill, the complexities of U.S.-China trade relations, and personal reflections that add a human touch to the political discourse. Through expert analysis and engaging discussions, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the current political landscape and the personalities shaping it.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Barbara Sprunt: “The CBO cost estimates are just advisory. They don't make any policy recommendations” (04:32).

• Mara Liasson: “The only entity that I know of who is saying this bill will reduce the deficit and increase growth is the White House itself” (07:10).

• Douglas Holtz-Eakin: “Congress gets to hide behind you and they get to vent at you” (08:53).

• Emily Feng: “Rare earth minerals... China has dominated the world supply of refining these rare earth minerals” (12:58).

• Myles Parks: “Steven Spielberg... I truly and to this day regret the decimation of the shark population because of the book and the film” (23:03).

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and personal anecdotes shared in the NPR Politics Podcast episode titled "Budget Battles & Conversations With China." For a deeper dive, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Hometap Representative]

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[Myles Parks]

Hi, this is Hans and Angelo and we're in Sequoia national park listening to a tremendously loud chorus of frogs. This podcast was recorded at 12:35pm on Friday, June 6, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you listen to this, but nature will be continuing her song of the promise of the future.

[Mara Liasson]

Wow. That's amazing.

[Barbara Sprunt]

One of the plagues.

[Myles Parks]

So loud and constant ribbit, ribbit. Is it just like that all day?

[Barbara Sprunt]

I don't know.

[Myles Parks]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Myles Parks. I cover voting.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I'm Barbara Sprunt, I cover Congress.

[Mara Liasson]

And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.

[Myles Parks]

And today on the show, President Trump's spending package, the one he calls the big, beautiful bill. But Mara, I will say it is really hard to talk about this bill right now without also talking about Elon Musk and this giant feud, breakup, whatever.

[Mara Liasson]

You want to call, certainly did. You've got the big beautiful bill, which is what Trump calls this, and then you've got the big, beautiful breakup between him and Elon Musk. And even before yesterday when things got really personal, Elon Musk was criticizing the bill. He said it was a disgusting abomination. No Republican should vote for it. And remember, Musk was the guy who, who came into the Trump administration to carry out a decades old Republican goal, which is to radically downsize the federal bureaucracy and lay off federal workers. And he did. But this bill, he thinks is the absolute opposite. Now, the big question now is, does he have an effect on Republicans voting for the bill? Probably not. But then the question is, can he help shape public opinion about it even after it passes, if it does? Already we know that majorities of voters disapprove of this bill. He has a very big megaphone on social media in X. Will he spend money and time trying to criticize this bill after it passes, which could cause political problems for Republicans?

[Myles Parks]

I mean, we're gonna talk about this bill in detail a little bit more. But just focusing on the Musk Trump dynamic a little bit, Barbara, I do have to say these are two people who have huge personalities. I guess I wonder, was part of this sort of breakup that we've seen this week kind of inevitable?

[Barbara Sprunt]

I think so. I think, you know, that was, I think, largely, like, the public sentiment is thinking, like, when is this going to end? This kind of bromance, if you will. And even on the Hill, like, candidly, there was sort of like this chatter of, like, how long will this last? They were, you know, thick as thieves for what seemed at the time like it would last a little longer. I think some people are surprised that its tenure was cut short.

[Myles Parks]

Yeah.

[Barbara Sprunt]

But I do think, and I think the way in which it has sort of devolved so quickly and so precariously is a little surprising. But I do think that everyone sort of expected that this wouldn't. Wouldn't be one for the books.

[Myles Parks]

Well, so the feud, as we mentioned, kind of began with this conflict over the fact that this bill that includes many of President Trump's priorities is expected to add trillions to the federal deficit. And there was an official estimate actually tied to the bill. Right. Barbara, what did the Congressional Budget Office find out?

[Barbara Sprunt]

That's right. The big number from this week was 2.4 trillion, doll. That's what they expect would be added to the deficit over the course of a decade under this bill. And this runs counter to what the messaging from a lot of Republicans on the Hill had been. After the House passed this bill, they maintained that extending those 2017 tax cuts, of course, under the first Trump administration, which this bill would do, will be offset, in their view, by other spending cuts and other economic growth that they're predicting. And then another big number that's been floating around that people may have heard is 11 million. The CBO estimates that 11 million people will. Will lose health insurance under this type of bill, largely because of cuts to Medicaid.

[Myles Parks]

Well, so you've also been reporting a lot on kind of bigger picture, what the CBO is and how it does its work. What can you tell us about how an analysis like this comes together with.

[Barbara Sprunt]

A lot of time and a lot of care? If you were listening to Republican lawmakers talk about the CBO the last week or two, you would probably walk away thinking, okay, this is some sort of, like, partisan agency that's pushing a particular agenda. That is not the case. The CBO was established in the 70s mainly to analyze budget implications of proposed bills from Congress. And what's interesting is, up until that point, the scorekeeping around the budgetary process had been done under the executive branch. And so the CBO acts as sort of a congressional counterbalance to what is now the Office of Management and Budget. Under the executive branch, the cbo scores about 1,000 bills each year. It's only about 275 staffers. So it's a really small agency. And it's nonpartisan, despite what people. People may say on both sides of the aisle. You know, the CBO cost estimates are just advisory. They don't make any policy recommendations, which makes them unique. And it's up to lawmakers to decide whether or not they want to do anything with the information that they receive. An expert that I spoke with actually compared it to the civil service. The idea that, you know, the staff largely will stay. It's like, it's budget experts, it's demographers, it's economists, and they largely stay, like, regardless of who's in charge.

[Myles Parks]

Well, Mara, so you've got this big CBO announcement coming out this week, and then you also, as you mentioned, have one of the world's richest people kind of railing against this bill over and over again on his own social media platform. What are we thinking in terms of the chances that this bill actually passes Congress, considering just how tight the margins are for Republicans?

[Mara Liasson]

I think that the bill will probably pass. This is one of those things where it's one of those make or break votes. We see this in almost every administration. And the message to Republicans is, if you don't pass this, this will be the utter failure of the Trump administration. So I think it will pass. The question is, after it passes, will it become an albatross around the neck of Republicans the way the last Trump tax cut bill did? People thought it helped the rich and not the middle class. You've got all sorts of economists saying it's really dangerous to increase the debt this much at a time when you're not fighting a war or dealing with a pandemic. And this could lead to a fiscal crisis. So the only entity that I know of who is saying this bill will reduce the deficit and increase growth is the White House itself.

[Myles Parks]

I mean, how exactly are they justifying basically having a different perspective on whether this bill is going to add to the debt?

[Mara Liasson]

Well, I think that there is a lot of messaging that the CBO is not to be trusted. Basically, the Trump administration says any entity, any institution that disagrees with them is not to be trusted. They try to undermine the credibility of any institution, whether it's the cbo, whether it's a university, whether it's a big nonprofit. I mean, this is just basically their go to playbook for this. Like I said, I don't think that this will change the politics of this. The politics of this for Republicans is they've gotta Pass this. This is Trump's number one and maybe his only legislative vehicle. But the question is afterwards, does it become a problem for Republicans?

[Myles Parks]

I mean, Barbara, with your knowledge about the cbo, I mean, is criticism or this idea of trying to paint the CBO analysis as partisan or something, or not to be trusted, is that new?

[Barbara Sprunt]

It is not new. You know, I, I spoke with someone who actually was director of the CBO from 2003 to 2005, Douglas Holtz Aiken. And the thing that he said is different this time, which I think is interesting, is that typically the White House will leave the criticizing to their congressional counterparts. And this time, the White House press secretary has been talking about the CBO being shoddy. So that element, I think, is new members will sort of say, like, look, when the numbers that the CBO puts out work in our favor, awesome. And if not, then we move to the blame game. And this kind of tracks with something that Holtz Ekins said as well, which is when he became director of the cbo, he sort of discovered that there was an unspoken function of the agency, which is the. To take the blame from Congress.

[Douglas Holtz-Eakin]

Congress gets to hide behind you and they get to vent at you. Like, sometimes they're just very frustrated and they, they, they scream at the CBO director, and that's just a role you play. It's not personal, and it's, it's just frustration, and they have hard jobs and there's a lot of stress. And I just said, okay, well, that's, that's the way that works. Sometimes you hear them say, oh, we can't do this because of the CBO score. No, they just don't want to do it.

[Myles Parks]

It's a very Zen outlook, right?

[Barbara Sprunt]

It's Washington.

[Myles Parks]

All right, well, Barbara, go take a break. We're going to bring you. Let it go.

[Barbara Sprunt]

Sounds good.

[Emily Feng]

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[Emily Feng]

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[Emily Feng]

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[Myles Parks]

And we're back. And NPR correspondent Emily Feng is with us now. Hi, Emily.

[Emily Feng]

Hey, Miles.

[Myles Parks]

So you are here to talk China with us. President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke on the phone yesterday, which was their first phone call since this big tariff war began this spring. What do we know about what they talked about?

[Emily Feng]

They talked mostly about trade. It was 90 minutes long. China says that they brought up Taiwan, which is this democratic island that China wants to control. And they also both said they invited each other to visit each other's countries, but they resolved to meet again for trade talks. And both said that they really wanted good relations between the two countries. That being said, there are big, outstanding issues, and a phone call is not going to paper over that.

[Myles Parks]

Talk me through what some of those big outstanding issues are.

[Emily Feng]

So this goes back all the way to Trump's first administration, where he really wanted what he was calling a phase two trade deal. He wanted China to change its political system. Basically, he wanted a level playing ground for American businesses in China. China walls off certain industries that it considers critical and doesn't allow foreign businesses to invest or compete in them. He wanted protections against China ste American ip. He wanted China to buy more US Goods. And then since then, since he's come back to office, in addition to all that, the US has been trying to wall off its critical semiconductor technology, from hardware to software to China. And now this thing called rare earth minerals have has been in the headlines I'm sure you've seen. So those are all the big structural issues Some of which are integral to how China runs its still semi planned, centralized economy. And these are things that China has not really compromised on.

[Myles Parks]

So you mentioned rare earth minerals. Can you remind us what those are and why they're important?

[Emily Feng]

They're a variety of elements that are usually quite common, actually. They're just expensive and difficult and dirty to refine. They require things like acids and really nasty chemicals. And China has dominated the world supply of refining these rare earth minerals. And we need them because we use them in small amounts. And basically every technological device we use, whether it's your smartphone or magnets that go into a. Into a fighter jet, did China do.

[Mara Liasson]

Those things that Trump wanted them to do in his first term?

[Emily Feng]

No.

[Mara Liasson]

That agreement ever actually get actualized?

[Emily Feng]

No. So they reached what's called a phase one trade deal where China promised to buy hundreds of billions of dollars of more stuff from the US which didn't really happen because the COVID pandemic started. And then they started negotiations for this phase two deal about all these issues I just talked about, and that never came to fruition.

[Myles Parks]

I mean, Mara, so much is made of how Trump negotiates his style. I mean, it's a big part of what he ran on in 2024. How do you think he feels these negotiations have gone this year in his second term?

[Mara Liasson]

Well, he's frustrated. He's actually posted something that said China's very tough to deal with and negotiate with. Don't forget, this isn't just something he ran on. This is the core of his political Persona and brand, the Art of the Deal. He wrote that book. And he has said over and over again. Usually he describes potential trade negotiations as easy peasy. If I can just have a phone call with Xi, we can get everything straightened out. The other day he actually told reporters, he said, we straightened it out. And we got. And he posted. We had a positive conclusion. Well, the conclusion seems to be that the talks will resume, that Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary, is going to restart talks with Chinese officials. But Trump hasn't succeeded. He makes maximalist demands, puts gigantic tariffs on China. He posts, do not retaliate. China does retaliate. And then Trump backs down. He kind of negotiates with himself. He backs down without getting any concessions. So that seems to be his pattern with these trade negotiations with China. He's not getting anywhere, and he keeps on changing the terms. And he also is not clear about exactly what he wants. I mean, if he believes the tariffs will pay off the national debt and make America rich, well, then he has to keep these gigantically high tariffs on. Are they a negotiating tool? That's what it sometimes seems like because he keeps on changing them, even if he gets no concessions from the other side.

[Myles Parks]

I mean, Emily, how are these negotiations out of this phone call yesterday, how's this all playing out in China?

[Emily Feng]

It was front page news at the same time, I think most people greeted it with a shrug. China is going to continue the kinds of industrial and technological policies that have made it a serious competitor economically, technologically, in the semiconductor space. And they've realized that rare earths, which China has a near monopoly on refining, not mining, we have them in the US we just don't have serious capacity to refine them, to make them into the components that go into our cars and fighter jets and iPhones. They have a near monopoly on this. And they figured out that this cutting that off to the US and the EU is a serious choke point. And the US Sits up and listens when China cuts that off.

[Mara Liasson]

Wow, Emily, is getting the processing capacity here. You say we already have the rare earths in the ground, but we don't process them. China does almost all of that. Is that the same kind of a hurdle as bringing manufacturing back to the US Is it really, really hard to do?

[Emily Feng]

Yes. It's dirty, it's energy intensive, and we haven't had a commercial incentive to do it because China did it so cheaply. There was never a market demand to bring it back. And we buy very small quantities, relatively spe of rare earths. Not a lot goes into, say, a fighter jet, maybe a couple hundred pounds. So if you listen to the market, there's never been a need. Despite national security analysts saying we need this stuff in the US there's never been a market need to bring it.

[Myles Parks]

To the U.S. i mean, what is the end goal here? Because the entire, basically the entire global economy is kind of sitting up and watching every single time these leaders talk, every time there's movement on tariffs, because so much of everything runs through either China or us or both. Do we have any sense, I guess, of how this all finishes or what would make President Trump happy here?

[Emily Feng]

I don't. And I think that's what China's also struggling with. What kind of concessions can we give Trump that he'd be happy with? At first it was about fentanyl. China said it was going to correct unworn fentanyl, and in fact, they had done a lot already. Is it about investing in the US and bring manufacturing here? That's kind of hard for Chinese companies. To do now because of national security restrictions and a lot of tech fields. Is it about buying more American goods? Maybe that'll be something that'll come up in the second round of talks.

[Myles Parks]

Mara, what else are you watching as this kind of moves forward?

[Mara Liasson]

I'm watching to see how the president kind of gets himself out of the hole he's put himself in. He raised expectations for his abilities to make trade deals with lots of countries, but particularly China. He has backed down. He's changed the terms. He's sent confusing signals. And I don't know if he's looking for some kind of small concession he can claim as a big victory. But I don't really understand how he's going to force China, which is racing ahead of the US and advanced manufacturing and all sorts of other fields, to do what he wants, especially because we're still not clear what he wants.

[Myles Parks]

And so is the next step to watch, Emily, is these trade talks, when are those expected and what are we expecting to come out of those?

[Emily Feng]

For China? Don't expect their behavior to change that much. What they're looking to do is minimize the threat from the US Try to keep tariff rates low. But they've been saying for the last six years that they want self reliance and things like supply chains, intermediate components technology. And I think the fact that Trump has been very, very willing to all of a sudden ramp up tariffs to 145% at their base level only reinforces their conviction that they need to double down on building their own economic resilience.

[Myles Parks]

All right, NPR's Emily Fang. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Emily Feng]

Thanks, Miles.

[Myles Parks]

Okay, one more break and then can't let it go.

[Emily Feng]

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[Myles Parks]

And we're back. And so is Barbara Sprunt. Hi, Barbara.

[Barbara Sprunt]

Hey.

[Myles Parks]

So it's time for Can't Let It Go, the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just cannot let go of, politics or otherwise. Barbara, since we just got you back, do you want to start us off?

[Barbara Sprunt]

I would love to. And it's an otherwise today.

[Myles Parks]

Okay.

[Barbara Sprunt]

Okay. Has anyone been watching the French Open? Roland Garros?

[Mara Liasson]

No.

[Myles Parks]

I know what it is. I know it exists.

[Barbara Sprunt]

There was a really sweet and affirming moment during a match with Carlos Alcaraz of Spain and Ben Shelton of the United States. In the second set, Alcaraz was returning a shot, and it was out of reach. So he sort of, like, flung his racket and it made contact with the ball, which in itself is, like, pretty impressive. And it sent it over the net. And so he was initially awarded a point. And then you sort of see him, like, go over to the. To the chair umpire and, like, wag his finger, and he's like, no, that's not my point. Because he wasn't holding the racket when it made contact with the ball, which is a no, no. So, you know, and it came at a critical point in the set. And so he ended up not getting that point. He ended up winning the match overall, but it was just such a nice, lovely moment of sportsmanship. He said afterwards that he would have felt guilty if he didn't say anything. So I just think we need more Alcaraz energy in the world.

[Mara Liasson]

So integrity still exists, at least on the tennis court.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I'm happy to hear that.

[Myles Parks]

I feel like I'm going to show this to all the guys I play pickup basketball with, because there's a who even out there on a game that doesn't matter. I see some. I see some lying. I'm gonna say it right now, Barbara. I see people know when the ball went off of them, and they'll be like, no, it's off you. It's off you. And it's like, what are we doing here, guys?

[Barbara Sprunt]

I know.

[Myles Parks]

Be a Carlos, play with integrity. Right?

[Barbara Sprunt]

Okay. So what about you, buddy? What's your Can't Let It Go.

[Myles Parks]

So my Can't Let It Go is. Did you guys know that this is the 50th anniversary of the movie Jaws coming out this year?

[Barbara Sprunt]

I know that Amara knows that you've been waiting.

[Myles Parks]

How do you.

[Mara Liasson]

I know that because. Because my first job in journalism was on the Vineyard Gazette, and that was many, many years ago, over 40 years ago. And actually it was right after Jaws. And I know people who worked on that movie built things, including the little wooden shark fin that one of the kids extras played with in the water.

[Barbara Sprunt]

Oh, my gosh.

[Myles Parks]

How did I not know you worked at the Vineyard Gazette? Mar. I have a Vineyard Gazette hat from when I visited years ago.

[Mara Liasson]

It was a great little newspaper. And that's where I started.

[Myles Parks]

That is so cool.

[Mara Liasson]

I lived there year round.

[Emily Feng]

Wow.

[Myles Parks]

One of the few. One of the few. Well, I Can't Let It Go is about Jaws, but then also specifically kind of a sad one, but maybe it was interesting to me. I didn't know it before. So post Jaws, I don't know if you guys know that there's been a pretty big decimation of the shark population worldwide. And there has been some. Some crediting to the movie and the book because. Well, just because a lot of people started hunting for sharks after the fact, for sport, especially on the east coast of the United States. And one thing that was interesting to me, that kind of made me sad is I think that's like a perfect movie also. I think it's endlessly rewatchable. And Steven Spielberg was actually asked about this on BBC, and he said, one of the things I still fear is not to get eaten by a shark, but that sharks are somehow still mad at me for the crazy sport fishermen that happened after 1975. I truly and to this day regret the decimation of the shark population because of the book and the film. And I don't know that just like to have made such a perfect movie and then still for 50 years be holding this regret about how it's played out in the world more broadly? I don't know. That kind of shook me a little bit.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I mean, is he heartened at all by the fact that isn't a lot of shark decimation also due to climate.

[Myles Parks]

Change, a lot of things that go into it. But I do think the fact that people's fears. I don't know that people were, like, naturally as scared of sharks generally, too, before Jaws, and now there Is kind of like.

[Barbara Sprunt]

It's also kind of a wind about thing, right. Because as climate change got worse, sharks end up on beaches more. So people are actually more afraid of them because they see them more often now.

[Myles Parks]

That's true. That's true. I just wanted to say I'm sorry to Stephen.

[Barbara Sprunt]

Yeah.

[Myles Parks]

You know, you can let this one.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I think you've earned.

[Myles Parks]

We forgive you, I guess as a, as a society. Right.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I think you've done a lot for a lot of creatures big and small, including dinosaurs.

[Myles Parks]

All right, Mara, what can't you let.

[Mara Liasson]

Go of my can't let it go. This week is about actor Ralph Macchio. He was the Karate Kid and he revealed that he keeps souvenirs from movie sets that he's been on or he pilfers things. And in this case, he kept a can of tuna used in the famous shoplifting scene of my cousin Vinnie. And this is a very personal thing for me. There are two reasons why this, this Can't Let it Go really resonated with me. Number one, I have seen my cousin Vinnie about 10 times and when you're married to a lawyer. And my late husband loved the movie and we saw it over and over again. And I have another personal, weird, personal connection to this, which is I have a lot of canned goods in my house that have expired. This can of Tuna is 33 years old. That's what Ralph Macchio said. And I have things that are, I don't know, about 33 years old. But my kids, kids just go nuts when they see this stuff. But I believe that just because the date is expired, it doesn't mean that the tuna fish is bad.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I mean, a can tin, it feels pretty secure, you know, like no air is getting in there, I guess.

[Myles Parks]

What is the statute of limitations on that, though, Mara, though, would you.

[Mara Liasson]

That is an excellent question and I don't know the answer to that.

[Myles Parks]

I'm asking you personally, would you eat a 33 year old can of tuna?

[Mara Liasson]

Are in fallen shelters? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think cans are. Have a pretty long lifespan.

[Myles Parks]

It sounds like. Yes, it sounds like Svara would eat it.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I wonder, does it like canned peaches feel like one thing? McCann tuna feels potentially like another.

[Mara Liasson]

I haven't really thought this through, but when I read about this, I thought, boy, I like this. I can't let go of this. The movie, which I've seen a million times. And then the expired can.

[Barbara Sprunt]

You can't let go of that can.

[Myles Parks]

Yeah, right. All right, well, that's all for today. Our executive producer is Mathoni Muturi. Casey Morell edits the podcast. Our producer is Bria Suggs. Special thanks to Lexi Schapitl and Dana Farrington. I'm Myles Parks. I cover voting.

[Barbara Sprunt]

I'm Barbara Sprent. I cover Congress.

[Mara Liasson]

And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.

[Myles Parks]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Emily Feng]

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