Defense Officials Used Group Text To Plan Missile Strikes

Summary

Summary of "Defense Officials Used Group Text To Plan Missile Strikes" – NPR Politics Podcast

Release Date: March 25, 2025

In this compelling episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, NPR's top political reporters delve into a significant national security breach involving the misuse of the Signal messaging app to coordinate U.S. missile strikes against Houthi rebels in Yemen. The episode meticulously unpacks the events, responses from political leaders, and the broader implications for national security protocols.

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1. The Security Breach: Signal Group Chat Exposed

The episode opens with a startling revelation: Jeffrey Goldberg, editor of The Atlantic, was inadvertently added to a confidential Signal group chat used by high-ranking U.S. defense officials. This group chat, intended for secure communication among top national security personnel, was detailing the planning and execution of airstrikes against Yemen's Houthi rebels.

Greg Myhre explains, “[Goldberg] said he got this invitation on March 11, and it was from the account of Michael Waltz, the national security advisor... [He] accepted the invitation” (01:36).

2. Jeffrey Goldberg’s Discovery and Confirmation

Initially suspicious of the invitation, Goldberg approached the situation with caution. His wariness was justified when, on March 15, he received a message from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth outlining the imminent airstrikes, prompting Goldberg to verify the authenticity of the information.

At 02:38, Goldberg recounts, “I get this war plan from Pete Hegseth... I wanted to find out if this is real or not in two hours.” Shortly after, reports of missile strikes began surfacing on social media, confirming the group's legitimacy.

3. White House Response: Discrediting the Leak

In the wake of the breach, the White House has taken a defensive stance, attempting to minimize the incident's severity and discredit Goldberg's reporting. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth publicly labeled Goldberg as a "deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist," as relayed by Greg Myhre (04:18).

The administration's communication strategy is aggressive. Courtney Ferrell notes, “...members of the administration who are in that group chat are trying to discredit Goldberg and downplay the fact that this is a big deal” (04:42). Additionally, Press Secretary Caroline Levitt tweeted dismissive statements about the absence of classified material in the chat (04:15).

President Trump further defended National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, asserting that the incident was merely a “glitch” and expressed confidence in Waltz’s capabilities (04:50).

4. Congressional Hearings: Accountability and Transparency

As the podcast tapes during ongoing Senate Intelligence Committee hearings, key figures like CIA Director John Ratcliffe and Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard addressed the breach. While affirming that no classified information was shared, they remained vague about the specifics, leading to heightened scrutiny.

Greg Myhre highlights that Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff pressed officials for clarity, but the responses were largely evasive (11:07). The lack of transparency has fueled demands for comprehensive investigations into whether this misuse of Signal is an isolated incident or part of a broader pattern.

5. Protocols for Handling Classified Information

The misuse of Signal, a platform not intended for handling classified discussions, underscores significant lapses in protocol. Greg Myhre emphasizes, “There are very clear guidelines and protocols about how to handle classified information... this is not something you would discuss on an app that’s available to everybody” (05:58).

Moreover, recent Pentagon warnings about Signal’s vulnerabilities highlight the risks associated with using such platforms for sensitive communications (07:19).

6. Potential Investigations and Future Implications

The breach sets the stage for potential investigations into the mishandling of classified information. Historically, similar incidents, like Hillary Clinton’s email controversy, have led to extensive probes and, in some cases, prosecutions of lower-level officials.

Courtney Ferrell comments on the administration’s track record, noting President Trump’s history of quickly dismissing officials perceived as disloyal, though currently, there seems to be no movement towards such action in this case (14:50).

Greg Myhre adds that Democratic senators aim to determine whether the use of Signal extends beyond this incident, potentially revealing systemic issues within national security communications (16:50).

7. What’s Next? Monitoring the Evolving Situation

As the situation unfolds, several key developments to watch include:

• Further Investigations: Determining the extent of protocol breaches and identifying all parties involved.
• Policy Reforms: Potential tightening of communication guidelines for national security officials.
• Political Repercussions: Ongoing efforts by Democrats to hold the administration accountable amidst Republican attempts to deflect criticism.

Courtney Ferrell anticipates continued attempts by the White House to shift focus, possibly reverting to familiar talking points like immigration to divert attention from the breach (15:18).

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Notable Quotes

• Jeffrey Goldberg: “I was quite shocked that I discovered this huge breach in national security” (02:38).
• President Trump: “Mike Waltz had learned his lesson. He’s a good man. This whole incident is a glitch” (04:50).
• Senator Jon Ossoff: Probed officials, emphasizing the importance of secure communication platforms (11:26).

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Conclusion

This episode sheds light on a critical lapse in national security communications, revealing how high-level officials' misuse of everyday apps like Signal can jeopardize sensitive operations. The NPR Politics team effectively dissects the incident, the administration's defensive maneuvers, and the broader implications for government accountability and information security. As investigations proceed, listeners are left to consider the balance between secure communication and transparency within the highest levels of government.

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Thank you for reading this detailed summary of the NPR Politics Podcast episode. For those interested in the intricate dynamics of national security and political accountability, this episode offers insightful analysis and expert commentary.

Transcript

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[Courtney Ferrell]

Hi, this is Courtney Ferrell in New York City, and I have just finished going through all of the voter registration forms that we've collected for my school's civics week in my New York City public school.

[Sarah McCammon]

This podcast was recorded at 12:36pm Eastern Time on Tuesday, March 25, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you've heard this, but I will never.

[Courtney Ferrell]

Stop being inspired by my wonderful students.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yay for civics education.

[Courtney Ferrell]

That's pretty cool.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Courtney Ferrell]

I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover the White House.

[Greg Myhre]

And I'm Greg Myhre. I cover national security.

[Sarah McCammon]

And today on the show, we're looking at a major national security story this week, how Jeffrey Goldberg, editor of the Atlantic, was added to a group text on the messaging app Signal. That chat detailed how and when the United States would launch airstrikes against Houthi rebels in Yemen. And we should note NPR's CEO Catherine Marr chairs the board of directors for the Signal foundation, whose subsidiary makes Signal. Now, that chain included multiple key Trump administration officials, the secretary of defense, the vice president, national security advisors, and other senior government leaders. Now, Greg, it goes without saying that Goldberg, the journalist at the Atlantic, was not supposed to be on this text chain. So how did this happen?

[Greg Myhre]

Well, as he explained it in his article in the Atlantic and talking to NPR, he said that he got this invitation on March 11, and it was from the account of Michael Waltz, the national security advisor. Now, his first instinct was, this is a hoax. Somebody's trying to entrap me, maybe a foreign intelligence service, maybe somebody who just wants to prank journalists. So he was very suspicious, but he accepted the invitation on March 11th. And then over the course of the next few days, this chat group started to get more active, and all of the top national security officials were on there, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, CIA Director John Ratcliffe, Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, Secretary of State Marco Rubio. So this is looking more and more real. And then along comes March 15, four days later. And here's how Goldberg described it yesterday on All Things Considered.

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I'm sitting in my car in a parking lot in a supermarket at 11:44am Eastern, and I get this war plan from Pete Hexseth. And it basically says in Two hours time, you'll begin to see the effects of the bombing. And so I think to myself, well, I'm going to find out if this is real or not in two hours. I hold my phone very tightly because I don't want anybody getting my phone, obviously. And sure enough, around 1:50pm Eastern, there starts to filter reports on social media of strikes in Yemen.

[Greg Myhre]

So, yes, it was clear that this was all factual. Goldberg said he was quite shocked that he discovered this huge breach in national security. So those U.S. attacks against the Houthis in Yemen have now been going on for about 10 days and are still ongoing and expected to last for quite some time.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, so Deepa, what is the White House saying about this incident? What are they confirming?

[Courtney Ferrell]

Yeah, so so far, the nsc, which is the National Security Council, pretty much in aftermath, this all happened Monday. Yesterday the NSC verified the authenticity of these signal messages and they said that they're investigating how Goldberg got added to the group chat in the first place. Obviously, he wasn't meant to be there. So, you know, they're basically acknowledging that this is real. They're saying that, you know, yes, this did happen. But at the same time, you know, there are members of the administration who are in that group chat who are trying to discredit Goldberg and downplay the fact that this is a big deal. This is Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth who was asked about this by reporters and this is what he said.

[Greg Myhre]

You're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time.

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Again to include the, I don't know.

[Greg Myhre]

The hoaxes of Russia, Russia, Russia, or the fine people on both sides hoax, or suckers and losers hoax.

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So this is the guy that pedals in garbage.

[Greg Myhre]

This is what he does.

[Courtney Ferrell]

It's like pretty incredible, Sarah, to see like almost the comms machine at work here. And that, you know, is pretty standard in the Trump administration when they're trying to spin the message the way that they want. Just in the last 24 hours to see, you know, you go from the NSC saying these messages are real to this morning Press Secretary Caroline Levitt tweeting out a number of bullet points. One of them saying, you know, Jeffrey Goldberg is well known for his sensationalists spin. She said that there were, quote, no war plans that were discussed. There was no classified material that was sent to the thread. And you also had Trump himself, he phoned into NBC News and he's defending Mike Waltz, his National Security Advisor. He made multiple points, and one of them was, of course, to discredit the Atlantic and dismissing the publication. But he also said that Mike Waltz had learned his lesson. He's a good man. And he said this whole incident is a glitch. And it turned out not to be serious, effectively because it was a successful attack, I think is what he's trying to say. And so he said that it had no impact at all on the military operation. And he said he's pretty confident in Mike Waltz.

[Sarah McCammon]

I just wanna take a step back, Greg. You cover national security. Deepa, you cover the White House. I mean, is content like this ever supposed to be discussed over an app like Signal?

[Greg Myhre]

Simple answer. Absolutely not. There are very clear guidelines and protocols about how to handle classified information. And then there's secret and top secret. And this would certainly seem to under the category of top secret in terms of war plans hours before they're about to go into action. So this is not something you would discuss on an app that's available to everybody. But some government agencies allow its use in limited circumstances. And for example, we've heard where one official may want to have a secure conversation with somebody else and they'll say, hey, can we talk about that thing we've been discussing? They'll use that message over Signal, and then they'll go to the more secure government communication. So to use it as a heads up, but not to discuss actual classified information, as seems to be the case in this instance. And just as a side note, there's no indication that this is directly related. But just last week, the Pentagon warned the entire military Department of Defense apparatus that Signal has some vulnerabilities. Signal does have a very good reputation for being secure, but it's on phones and computers which are vulnerable to hacking.

[Courtney Ferrell]

There are staffers, there are people who work at the State Department, the Defense Department, who have to take this information extremely seriously, are held to a very high standard of, you know, not even being able to bring their personal devices into work. Like, there's all these rules that hundreds of people who work for the government have to follow. So the fact that the leaders of these departments and institutions are breaking those rules is pretty significant.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, it's time for a quick break. More in just a moment.

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[Greg Myhre]

No, it's called denying us freedom of speech.

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It's misinformation. Like so many Americans, my dad has gotten swept up in conspiracy theories.

[Greg Myhre]

These are not conspiracy theories. These are reality.

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I spent the year following him down the rabbit hole trying to get him back. Listen to Alternate Realities on the embedded podcast from npr. All episodes available now.

[Sarah McCammon]

And welcome back. So Jeffrey Goldberg at the Atlantic said that he believed either National Security Advisor Mike Waltz or a staffer working for Waltz had added him to this chat. Deepa, what is the White House saying about that and about Waltz's job security in light of this incident?

[Courtney Ferrell]

Yeah. So President Trump, in that interview in NBC News, he said it was one of Michael's people on the phone. And so he's essentially saying that it was a staffer maybe who, you know, was using Michael Waltz's contact information in the group chat, something like that. But at the same time, he's expressed confidence in Waltz. It doesn't seem like there's going to be any further fallout there. He said that Mike Waltz has learned his lesson in this situation. And I will say, like the, the second beat of that. Right. Is to continue to discredit the Atlantic. So there's kind of this machinery of, you know, making sure that this story isn't serious and they're trying to discredit it.

[Sarah McCammon]

So, Greg, meanwhile, the CIA director John Ratcliffe and the director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard are testifying before Congress as we tape this pod. This was a previously scheduled hearing. It's important to say. But this incident, no surprise has come up during that hearing. What are they saying about it?

[Greg Myhre]

Yeah, this is the Senate Intelligence Committee that's meeting and it's an annual event. They have it's the Worldwide Threat Assessment. And they call up several of the top national intelligence and security officials. So you would expect them to talk about China, Russia, Iran, those kinds of big picture items. Instead, it's been very much focused on this group chat on signal. And what was interesting is both Ratcliffe and Gabbard said they did not disclose any classified information on this chat or in any other form outside of standard procedures and so, as these Democratic senators questioned the intelligence officials, we really heard them pushing back. Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff from Georgia really had some strong comments. Let's listen to what he had to say.

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[Greg Myhre]

Yes.

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And they were discussing the timing of sending US Air crews into enemy airspace where they faced an air defense threat. Correct. I'm going to.

[Greg Myhre]

Senator, defer to the other principles that.

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You refer to about what the meaning.

[Greg Myhre]

And the context of what they thought they were on.

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[Greg Myhre]

Now, as best we could tell, Ratcliffe and Gabbard, they were commenting about their own remarks on this group chat. They didn't refer directly to what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth put out there. And Jeffrey Goldberg in his article said it was Hegseth who was putting out the most sensitive information about the bombing campaign. So they may be a little technically correct here, but they really haven't clarified in terms of what was classified, what was not classified, what could have been discussed, or what wasn't discussed.

[Sarah McCammon]

So in essence, as of this taping, at least, they're essentially saying, we didn't share anything classified, but maybe not commenting on whether or not anyone else had.

[Greg Myhre]

Yeah, they were not very chatty about this. They. They answered questions, but didn't get into details. In fact, Gabbard wouldn't even say that she was on this specific chat group on signal. Ratcliffe acknowledged that he was, but again said he didn't put out any information that was classified.

[Sarah McCammon]

So we have said this kind of information is not normally shared on an app like signal. Sensitive national security information does, though, from time to time get out beyond its intended audience. This isn't the first time that's happened. So generally speaking, what's the accountability in a situation like this? What kinds of investigations take place when something like this happens and what could happen next?

[Greg Myhre]

Well, we've certainly seen this in the past, and there have been investigations. In fact, there's almost always a couple ongoing investigations, and quite often lower level people do get prosecuted for maybe intentionally leaking classified information. We've seen several cases like that in Recent years, and even at the high level, we've certainly seen investigations. I mean, perhaps the one that received the most attention was Hillary Clinton. Clinton when she was Secretary of state. And then in the years afterward, she was investigated to see whether using a private email server at her house was a violation. Gross negligence in the handling of national security information. So these kinds of investigations do happen often. The opposition party calls for them, and that's what we're seeing right now with Democrats calling for them. However, Trump and others in administration are downplaying this and doesn't seem like they're interested in investigating much further.

[Courtney Ferrell]

And famously, this is a president who is well known for firing people who he feels should be fired, people who have been disloyal, people who he feels like have made mistakes or errors and has been quick to do that in the past. So, you know, there's very much an option investigation or no investigation for the president to let go of, you know, the people who work for him. Although at this point, it doesn't really seem like that is happening either.

[Sarah McCammon]

Before I let you both go, what else will you be watching for as this continues to play out?

[Courtney Ferrell]

I actually just got an email in my inbox a couple minutes ago that kind of speaks to the spin that the White House is continuing to put on this whole story. And they sent out something from their communications office that says Trump administration's actions made Houthi terrorists pay. And the first line in the memo that they sent out is Democrats and their media allies have seemingly forgotten that President Donald J. Trump and his national security team successfully killed terrorists who have targeted U.S. troops. So they're really trying to spin this as a why is this a big deal? We successfully targeted the people we were trying to target and have made America safer. I will say one more thing that's pretty common in this Trump White House is when things aren't typically going their way in the messaging world, they pull back to issues that work well for them. Immigration is typically one of them. Securing the U. S. Mexico border is often a topic that they sort of pull back to. And that was indicative this morning when Tom Homan, who's the president's border czar, was on Fox News. And so you can kind of almost see maybe some of that that's coming of the White House trying to pivot and pivot and pivot so they can make this story go away. Although I'm doubtful that that will happen.

[Greg Myhre]

And I'll just add that the Democratic senators were talking about at the hearing today. They said they'll be looking to see if top national security officials use the Signal app at other times to discuss other sensitive matters. So they suggesting or want to know if this was a one off occurrence or if this has sort of been a standard way of doing business among top national security officials.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right. Well, we'll leave it there for today. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Courtney Ferrell]

I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover the White House.

[Greg Myhre]

I'm Greg Myhre. I cover national security.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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