DHS funding set to expire as talks over immigration enforcement reforms stall

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast

DHS Funding Set to Expire as Talks Over Immigration Enforcement Reforms Stall

Date: February 13, 2026
Hosts: Myles Parks (Voting), Barbara Sprunt (Congress), Ximena Bustillo (Immigration Policy)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the imminent expiration of Department of Homeland Security (DHS) funding amid a congressional standoff over reforms to immigration enforcement—specifically targeting ICE and other DHS agencies—following two high-profile fatal shootings by immigration officers. The hosts discuss the policy and political dynamics shaping negotiations, debate over reforms, and the real-life impacts of a partial shutdown. The episode also provides analysis on congressional hearings with agency heads and delves into public trust and political pressures surrounding immigration enforcement today.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Only DHS Faces a Shutdown

[00:33-01:32]

• Congress previously passed appropriations for most of the government except DHS. Lawmakers separated DHS funding from the broader spending bill—using a short-term “stopgap” measure—after recent fatal ICE shootings spurred demands for reforms.
• Most government shutdowns risk all agencies. This time, it's just a “slice”—namely, DHS.

“This is just a slice. Um, it is the DHS slice of things. … They did a stopgap bill for DHS that ended up being just about under two weeks so that parties could work on negotiating changes to the department. Those negotiations are at a standstill. Of course, funding runs out tonight.” — Barbara Sprunt [01:03]

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2. Democrats' Demands for DHS Funding

[01:40-03:13]

• Triggered by the shootings in Minneapolis (notably of Alex Preddy), Democrats refuse to fund DHS without policy changes:
  • Body Cameras: Bipartisan support for requiring immigration officers to wear body cameras—codified into law.
  • Ban on Face Coverings: Democrats want to prohibit masks during operations for transparency; Republicans argue this risks doxxing agents.
  • Locations Restrictions: Prohibit raids near childcare, churches, schools.
  • Warrant Standards: Democrats want to require arrest warrants signed by a judge, not an administrative DHS official.

“They have listed a series of proposals… The idea that officers should be wearing [body cameras]. Dems want that codified into law. But … [about] prohibiting face coverings, … [Republicans say] it makes it easier for people to dox federal agents… Democrats counter that… this would actually bring immigration enforcement officers in line with other police officers…” — Barbara Sprunt [01:58]

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3. Status Inside DHS & Internal Agency Perspectives

[03:13-04:46]

• Agency heads, including ICE and Border Patrol, testified on the Hill, with broad agreement on body cameras but splits elsewhere.
• Agencies want additional funding for tech, trainers, and personnel to fully implement cameras.
• On warrants and operational locations, agency heads and White House staff have resisted limitations, seeking flexibility to enforce laws.
• ICE and Border Patrol reportedly have a substantial gap in body camera supply vs. need (e.g., 3,000 for 12,000 ICE agents).

“The Commissioner of Border Patrol literally pleaded to Congress … fund this program, make sure we don’t just have the body cameras, but also the personnel, … the IT people, the trainers, so that the program can be fully implemented. So that is… a trifecta of all support.” — Ximena Bustillo [03:45]

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4. Impact of a DHS Shutdown

[04:46-06:52]

• Immigration Enforcement: Will NOT actually stop. Law enforcement arms (ICE/Border Patrol) keep operating—drawing on a “slush fund” from prior appropriations.
• Broader DHS: Of ~250,000 employees, about 22,000 would be furloughed. The rest—including FEMA, the Coast Guard, TSA—work unpaid or with uncertain pay.
• Oversight Risks: Non-enforcement/oversight offices (like Immigration Detention Oversight) may halt, risking lapses in transparency, e.g., during last shutdown, deaths in custody went uninvestigated.

“Those who are out there, those who are deportation officers, those who are making arrests, patrolling the border… they will continue working, and it’s likely that they will continue to be paid.” — Ximena Bustillo [05:21]

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5. Political Calculations & Strategy

[06:52-08:35]

• Unlike past shutdowns (which triggered widespread disruptions), this is narrower; less leverage for Democrats to force reforms, but it does “starve” DHS budget for the year.
• Analogy: DHS’s funding is like a paycheck (appropriations) and savings account (carryover funds); now, they're forced to dip into savings.

“The strategy for this shutdown is not the same political strategy for other shutdowns… we're not seeing this broad national panic… what the shutdown does is it means DHS does have less money… they're going to have less money in total.” — Ximena Bustillo [07:09]

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6. Will Democrats Get the Immigration Reforms?

[08:11-10:53]

• This shutdown is grounded in immediate public outrage over ICE shootings (esp. Alex Preddy)—easier for Democrats to mobilize pressure compared to fights over e.g., insurance subsidies.
• Both Democrats and (to a lesser extent) Republicans are feeling public heat for oversight and reforms.
• NPR/partner polling shows most Americans believe ICE has overreached.
• Even some Republican voters express discomfort with immigration enforcement tactics in their states.

“This… is in the now where people are looking at something playing out on their phone as a video… saying, I want answers now, I want change now… we’ve done polling… that show[s] a majority of Americans say that ICE has gone too far in the way it's enforcing its priorities.” — Barbara Sprunt [08:48]

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7. Congressional Hearings: ICE, Border Patrol & Use-of-Force

[12:22-16:13]

• Recent Hill hearings centered on the deaths of Renee Macklin Goode and Alex Preddy.
• Senators Rand Paul (R-KY) and Gary Peters (D-MI) jointly scrutinized body cam video to question DHS leaders about use-of-force, de-escalation, and training.
• Agency heads largely declined to comment substantively—though were pushed to answer if actions like pepper spraying within inches of a face were acceptable (answer: “no”).
• Chairman Paul (R) made proceedings unusually accessible, focusing on fact-finding vs. grandstanding.

“This really stood out… it felt like the folks who were leading the hearing were very measured… they were trying to make it accessible for anyone tuning in. And… actually were trying to do... fact finding.” — Barbara Sprunt [15:23]

• Notably, ICE training for new officers has been cut from 72 days to 42; concerns raised that agents with little training are now on the streets—although shooters in these incidents had years of experience.

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8. Kristi Noem's Handling of the Alex Preddy Shooting

[17:39-19:47]

• DHS Sec. Kristi Noem swiftly labeled Preddy a “domestic terrorist”—claims later contradicted by the official report.
• Both ICE and CBP heads denied providing Noem with info to support terrorism allegations.
• Acting ICE Dir. Todd Lyons agreed public comments (including by Noem, Steven Miller, even Trump) “can bias an investigation.”

“They said no at every turn when they were asked about this, they really distanced themselves from those comments, saying they can't speak for her, that that's her prerogative… comments made publicly… can bias an investigation.” — Ximena Bustillo [18:27]

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9. Public Trust and Policy Shifts

[19:47-20:21]

• There’s bipartisan acknowledgment of “broken trust” between DHS/ICE and the public.
• Trump administration announced it will end “immigration enforcement crackdown” in Minnesota—a move prompted by protests after Preddy’s death.

“Chairman Paul said he felt that there was work to do on behalf of these agencies to repair the broken trust with the public.” — Barbara Sprunt [19:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I see nothing here. I mean, not even a hint of something that was aggressive on his part. Everything was retreated… He tries to assist the woman to get up. He’s violently sprayed.” — Sen. Rand Paul, as related by Ximena Bustillo [13:44]
• “This is a very different momentum… something that is in the now where people are looking at something playing out on their phone…” — Barbara Sprunt [08:48]
• “I do say that with the caveat that the officers… at the center of the shootings… had been with the agency for several years. So there is a limit to which the training question is relevant…” — Ximena Bustillo [16:50]
• “At every turn… they really distanced themselves from those comments [by Sec. Noem]…” — Ximena Bustillo [18:19]
• “As someone that's a little bit into the weeds on the policy, I want to hear about it. …The focus is on ICE. But ICE is not the only agency here. And not hearing conversation from either party on that… I can't let it go.” — Ximena Bustillo [24:18]

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Segment Timestamps

• DHS funding context and shutdown specifics: [00:33–01:32]
• Democratic reform demands: [01:40–03:13]
• Agency perspectives and Congressional testimony: [03:13–04:46]
• Practical impact of a shutdown: [04:46–06:52]
• Political strategy: [06:52–08:35]
• Public opinion and momentum: [08:35–10:53]
• Key hearings on ICE shootings: [12:22–16:13]
• ICE training developments: [16:13–17:19]
• Kristi Noem’s “domestic terrorism” comments: [17:39–19:47]
• Trust and public accountability: [19:47–20:21]
• Can’t Let It Go (lighter segment): [22:02–29:08]

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Tone & Language

• The tone is urgent but measured, foregrounding both policy analysis and the very human consequences of immigration enforcement and government shutdowns.
• The hosts frequently refer to data, polling, and first-hand reporting, while sprinkling in lighter banter in the last segment (“Can’t Let It Go”).

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This intense, policy-focused episode breaks down why and how DHS funding is being held up by Democrats insisting on reforms in the wake of controversial ICE shootings. The hosts walk through both the granular policy asks (like body cameras, restricting warrant types, and more) and the practical/strategic limitations of a partial DHS shutdown. They describe the highly scrutinized congressional hearings and public outcry, emphasizing how real-time viral incidents are changing both the policy debate and the bipartisan urgency—especially as even Republican voters show discomfort with ICE’s recent tactics. Livelier moments in the “Can’t Let It Go” segment give a human touch, reminding listeners of the stakes for both the agencies and the podcast team themselves.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast for Friday, February 13th. Duh, duh, duh 2026. I'm Myles Parks. I cover voting.

[C]

I'm Barbara Sprunt. I cover Congress.

[D]

And I'm Ximena Bustillo. And I cover immigration policy.

[B]

And today on the show, funding for the Department of Homeland Security is set to run out at midnight as Democrats are forcing yet another government shutdown over reforms they want to see with ice. Barbara, remind us how we got here and why we're talking about just a specific agency shutting down as opposed to the entire government.

[C]

Right. It feels almost not right. Right. Because we've had so many of these where it's like the impending massive government shutdown. And this is just a slice. Um, it is the DHS slice of things. Last month there were a few appropriations bills that were outstanding that they needed to get passed by the end of January for fiscal year 2026 funding. And last month, the Senate stripped the DHS part of that out from this broader federal spending package, probably so that other places wouldn't also endure a shutdown. And they did a stopgap bill for DHS that ended up being just about under two weeks so that parties could work on negotiating changes to the department. Those negotiations are at a standstill. Of course, funding runs out tonight.

[B]

Okay, so then let's get into the negotiations here. What are Democrats actually asking for in exchange for funding this agency?

[C]

Yeah, and this is, of course, in the wake of the two fatal shootings in Minneapolis by immigration enforcement officers. And almost immediately after the shooting of 37 year old Alex Preddy, Democrats came out and said, there's just no way that we will be able to vote for a DHS funding bill without major changes to the department policies. They have list a series of proposals. The top Democrats in both the Senate and the House, there are things that have some bipartisan agreement. Body cameras generally have consensus across the aisle. The idea that officers should be wearing them. Dems want that codified into law. But there are other areas that, you know, Democrats are pushing for and Republicans are resisting to. A big one is prohibiting face coverings. I think, like we've all seen the images of officers wearing these masks, these face coverings. Democrats want to prohibit those. The argument from Republicans is that it makes it easier for people to dox federal agents if they can see their face. But Democrats counter that and say, you know, this would actually bring immigration enforcement officers in line with other police officers, you know, who don't wear masks. And, you know, there are other things that they're asking for. Expanded training calls to prohibit using funds for conducting these kinds of raids near childcare facilities and churches and schools. And the big one that I think Jimene can talk more to is the idea that they want to manage that only warrants signed by a judge can be used to make arrests, as opposed to what is currently happening, which is the use of administrative warrants signed by DHS officials, not judges.

[D]

You know, during the course of the week, we also saw the heads of Immigration Customs Enforcement, Customs and Border protection, and the U.S. citizenship and Immigration Services testify before lawmakers in the House and Senate. And even they said, we want Congress to give us these body cameras. Essentially, literally, ICE only has about 3,000 body cameras for 12,000 agents, and Border Patrol has about 10,000 cameras for 20,000 agents. And the Commissioner of Border Patrol literally pleaded to Congress, and he was like, if I can just take this moment to make this ask, fund this program, make sure we don't just have the body cameras, but also the personnel, you know, the technicians, the IT people, the trainers, so that the program can be fully implemented. So that is, like, has the trifecta of all support. Then when we get to other things, such as the face coverings or the uses of different warrants, that's where you start to see some splits. And, you know, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and White House officials have, you know, kind of tried to say that, you know, they haven't done major operations at daycare centers or hospitals, but they also want the option to do that. And so we're seeing kind of the push and pull between executives options of how they want to enforce immigration law versus Democrats, which want to have some sort of guardrails on that.

[B]

Well, the deadline again, as I mentioned, is tonight. What does that mean for tomorrow when it comes to immigration enforcement specifically? I mean, are we talking about basically this, you know, this increased enforcement effort that we've been talking about for the last year, does that just stop tomorrow without funding?

[D]

No. No, it does not. So the thing about DHS is a lot of its agencies are like, the immigration parts are law enforcement, so they're going to continue working no matter what. You might remember that this summer, ICE got $75 billion in the one big beautiful bill, as, you know, kind of a little bit of, like, a cash fund, unrestricted funds. Now, the lessons learned from the last shutdown is that they tapped into that money to continue paying officers and agents. And so those who are out there, those who are deportation officers, those who are making arrests, patrolling the border, patrolling other cities, they will continue working, and it's likely that they will continue to be paid.

[B]

What about, I mean, the Department of Homeland Security? We cannot overstate how massive this agency is. What about the other parts of it that are still critical? I mean, things like FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the U.S. coast Guard, TSA, you know, people who want to fly this weekend. How are all of these other aspects of DHS gonna be impacted?

[D]

So there's about a quarter of a million people employed by DHS. Only according to their contingency plan, about 22,000 would be furloughed, which means most people would be working either with or without pay. You know, dhs, like every agency, is sprawling. With the last shutdown, we saw the Office of Immigration Detention Oversight, which investigates if there's a death in custody at a detention center. They did not work the entire last shutdown, and there were five deaths in custody during that time period. So there are things like mandatory reporting that could slow down, oversight that could slow down, and obviously not to minimize tens of thousands of people that could go without pay.

[B]

But it's not like Democrats are able to shut down this entire massive apparatus. So I'm curious from a political perspective, what the thinking is here or the strategy, if they're not able, by doing this, to really even impact what President Trump wants to do when it comes to immigration enforcement.

[D]

Right, And Barbara can definitely talk about this too. But the strategy for this shutdown is not the same political strategy for other shutdowns. Like, in other shutdowns, you know, we are asking questions about whether or not the mail's gonna arrive on time, if people are gonna access their food benefits, if the Smithsonians are gonna be open. Like, we're not seeing this broad national panic about whether or not services are gonna be made available. But what the shutdown does is it means DHS does have less money. So, again, we're talking about two pots of money. Let's think about it like a savings account and a checking account. The checking account is the regular paycheck you get the annual appropriations Congress gives. The savings account is the money Congress gave. If you don't get a paycheck, you can still dip into your savings account. Right. And that's what they're doing. But when you look at it over the course of the fiscal year, they're going to have less money in total than if Congress would have funded them in January.

[B]

Barbara, do you have a sense, I mean, the last government shutdown ended without Democrats getting what they ultimately said the entire time they wanted, which was an extension of the subsidies for people who were getting health insurance through Obamacare marketplaces. They basically ended up having to give that up at a certain point. Is there any sense from people you talk to on the Hill on whether Democrats are going to get what they want this time?

[C]

You know, I think it's just a fundamentally different situation. The sort of like philosophy behind it, the way that this is going to move forward is just drastically different than the first time. After the fatal shooting of Alex Preddy, you saw a ton of Democrats talking about it specifically as it related to this DHS funding bill. You also saw Republicans calling for oversight. And I think that this speaks to something that is permeating the consciousness of the country in a much different way, talking about what's going to happen in the future with people's premiums. I do believe it can be made a salient point, but it is harder to do than something that is in the now where people are looking at something playing out on their phone as a video that is frankly horrifying to a lot of people and saying, I want answers now, I want change now. And that is a very different momentum. And I think it speaks to an awareness of public opinion. I mean, we've done polling here through NPR and its partners that show that a majority of Americans say that ICE has gone too far in the way it's enforcing its, its priorities.

[B]

I mean, earlier this week on the podcast, we heard from this focus group of swing voters. These are voters who voted for Joe Biden in 2020, but voted for Donald Trump in 2024. And they said that they or somebody they know have changed their life related to ICE enforcement activity. And so this is like a, that is such an interesting point you make about this just being a very present thing for many people.

[C]

This week actually made me recall some of previous reporting I've done in the last like six months or so going out outside of D.C. and talking to people, particularly in red districts who may not have like, the blue city isn't in their red district, but it might be like an hour away. And it really surprised me the number of like self described Republicans or conservatives who told me, I don't want that in my state. Yeah, it's a blue city. It's not my Blue City. But it is in my state, and I'm not comfortable with that specifically with.

[B]

Regards to the, regards to the enforcement.

[C]

Yeah. And I think that, like, the scope of what we've seen and particularly in the surge operation in Minneapolis, unnerves a lot of people, a lot of people who still support the underlying mission of ice, you know, who still support the president's thesis of the case about immigration enforcement, but are uncomfortable about the way that it's being conducted.

[B]

All right, let's take a quick break and more on those hearings on the Hill in just a moment.

[E]

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[B]

And we're back. And President Trump's immigration enforcement strategy was the focus of Capitol Hill this week in more ways than just funding. As we talked about earlier, key agency leaders were on the Hill answering question lawmakers. A lot of them focused on the two deaths of American citizens. Renee Macklin Goode and Alex Preddy Ximena. Let's just start there with these hearings. Did we learn anything new about what happened in either of those instances?

[D]

You know, to an extent, not a lot of specifics. All three, you know, declined to comment on pending investigations. There were a lot of efforts to try and get these officials to provide insight on whether or not the investigations were happening appropriately, whether or not the of force was appropriate, and by and large, they tended to dodge these questions. However, One thing that I thought was really salient was at the start of the Senate hearing, we had Chairman Rand Paul, Republican from Kentucky, and ranking member Senator Gary Peters of Michigan. And they combined together to have this play by play frame of video footage, basically, of the events leading up to specifically Preddy's death. And at each point, they asked the head of ICE and the head of Border Patrol, is this justified use of force? Is this tactic to de escalate? And we kind of hear that throughout. I see nothing here. I mean, not even a hint of something that was aggressive on his part. Everything was retreated. He's over in the street, he retreats, he retreats. The woman is pushed to the ground. He tries to assist the woman to get up. He's violently sprayed. And it just continues. And that's Senator Paul. And he really hammered this point home. You know, is shoving the woman appropriate? Is pepper spraying someone in the face at, you know, very close, like within inches of someone's face, as we've seen in not just this instance, but other instances, is that an appropriate de escalation tactic? When do you draw your weapon? How are people trained on. On the use of their weapons? We just saw this over and over again. And so, you know, even though the officials, you know, declined to comment broadly on the investigations and the instances, they sometimes did provide some answers to whether or not these actions in a vacuum were appropriate. The broad answers being no.

[B]

Barbara, that does seem notable, that level of bipartisanship from Senators Paul and Peters. Am I wrong on that?

[C]

It was a very interesting hearing. For that reason, Chairman Paul is not representative of the broad vibe of the rest of the Republicans on the committee. So I think on the one hand, the hearing would have been very different had another Republican been sitting in that chair. But Senator Paul, I think, did a very good job as chairman of sort of like making this an accessible hearing. And I say that because a lot of times I'll tune into a hearing and I'm, like, already primed to know what the subject matter is, and I'm like, what are they talking about? It's like there's a lot of grandstanding. Sometimes it's just shouting over each other because people want to make a little clip for their next campaign. And it's not always substantive, and it's really hard to follow sometimes. And this really stood out to me because in this hearing, it felt like the folks who were leading the hearing were very measured. It felt like they were trying to make it accessible for anyone tuning in. And it felt like they actually Were trying to do, like, fact finding. I mean, Jimena, we were talking about this earlier. You know, Chairman Paul kept saying, let's just pause and bring it back. Back to this question. Like, is this de escalation? You know, like, can you tell us about what the training is like? And I'm like, anyone tuning in would be able to follow along with this. And these are the questions that people have.

[D]

Training has been the number one question. Acting ICE Director Todd Lyons did say that they had hired 12,000 more officers. And then he provided additional details that they did cut the training period at the Federal Law Enforcement Training center in Georgia from 72 days to 42 days. And in questions from Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego, he told the senator that it was possible for someone to go from having never held a weapon before to 45 days later having, quote, on the job training to get real world experience and be out on, like, the streets of Minneapolis. I do say that with the caveat that the officers and the agents who have been at the center of the shootings of Good and Preddy, they'd been with the agency for several years. So there is a limit to which the training question is relevant in those instances. But, I mean, that's still information that we managed to confirm about how this agency is preparing a large amount of officers to hit the streets.

[B]

Totally. It's not necessarily representative of the entire force of people who are doing immigration enforcement, but as we seek to understand all the changes that have been happening in the last year and how that's actually playing out, I can totally see why that's an important detail. There's a lot of questions about Kristi Noem's leadership at dhs. Did anything come up related to her in these hearings?

[D]

Yes, definitely. I mean, you might recall that after the shooting of Alex Preddy, Kristi Noem that night held a press conference that I attended where she called Alex Preddy a domestic terrorist and said that his actions were the definition of domestic terrorism, that he'd brandished a weapon, you know, really made all these claims. Very quickly, a few days later, we got that Customs and Border Protection report that completely contradicted this narrative. And immediately there was a lot of bipartisan criticism over how quickly she and other White House officials jumped to that label of domestic terrorism. Now, the officials who testified to the head of ICE and the head of Border Protection were asked about this if they had given any information to Secretary Noem that would lead her to say that. That they said no. Had anyone under their command given any information to Secretary Noem to make that statement. They said no at every turn when they were asked about this, they really distanced themselves from those comments, saying they can't speak for her, that that's her prerogative, that if even President Trump wants to make comments, that's on him, they can't speak to that. Now during the Senate hearing, I will say Acting Director Todd Lyons of ice, I think went a little bit of a step further when asked, okay, well, if your comments could do that, what about the secretary's comments? What about, you know, Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, like them making these comments, does that not bias an investigation? And Lyon said, yeah, comments made publicly on social media. He named Instagram comments made by text. So private public can bias an investigation. And I thought that was really, really important for him to say because there have been so many questions about whether or not these federal led investigations into these shootings are going to be fair. If anyone can trust them, what agency is leading them. That keeps changing. And we really saw some of the internal agency dissonance there.

[C]

And you know, Amena, you bring up such a great point too, about trust that I really want to underline because I think that was also a big part of the hearing. Totally. And in fact, Chairman Paul said he felt that there was work to do on behalf of these agencies to repair the broken trust with the public. And to that end, I mean, the Trump administration said that it's going to end its immigration enforcement crackdown in Minnesota, which is, of course, what prompted these widespread protests. And so I think that's a key element in all of this as we're looking at like the shifting landscape of what the Trump administration is doing and how it's enforcing its priorities.

[B]

Let's take a quick break and when we get back, can't let it go.

[A]

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[B]

And we're back. And it's time to end the show like we end every week with Can't Let It Go. The part of the show where we talk about we just cannot let go of politics or otherwise. Ximena, why don't you start us off?

[D]

So mine is politics and it's very related to what we've been talking about the last however many long and that is that USCIS Director Joseph Edlow received very, very, very few questions during these two oversight hearings. I think during the Senate hearing, he only received questions from one senator, and that was New Jersey Democratic Senator Andy Kim, who asked about arrests that had been made during green card interviews. And that to me was very salient because USCIS as an agency and under Edloe's command has really shifted its tenor over the last year. They have really leaned into policing tactics. They've also hired a lot of staff to be, quote, unquote, homeland defenders. They are in the process of re reviewing previously approved refugee applications and status. They've paused asylum. They have paused immigrant visas for 75 countries. I mean, the list is just endless of how they have, you know, really taken steps to limit pathways to legal migration. You know, he didn't get to talk about any of this really the entire time. He gave one opening statement on Tuesday. Didn't really get to talk on Thursday. So on either side either for Republicans to learn about how the Trump administration is bringing more scrutiny. Didn't hear about that. And Democrats didn't really press on the changes either.

[B]

Do you think this is a situation where the laundry list of things that lawmakers want to talk about is so long and this is just further down, or is it just that, like going back to like what we always talk about, which is that, I don't know, 70% of these hearings sometimes feels like getting a social media clip? And if he's not the head of the thing that is the most kind of salient in the news right now that that's not what lawmakers are focusing on or why do you think?

[D]

I think a combination of both. You know, USCIS is often not grouped in with ICE and Border Patrol. You know, Acting Director Lyons got the lion's share of the questions.

[B]

This whole thing was just meant to get you there, wasn't it? Oh, my gosh.

[D]

But he did. And even at times he was like, this wasn't a nice operation. This was for Border Patrol. So you saw even amongst the three of them, you know, kind of tossing the potato, responsibility of what the questions were. And that distinction makes a difference. As someone that's covered federal agencies before, as someone that's a little bit into the weeds on the policy, I want to hear about it. I want to hear about the USCIS stuff. I want to hear about the Border Patrol stuff as separate as the ICE stuff. And it makes sense. The focus is on ice. But ICE is not the only agency here. And not hearing conversation from either party on that, to me, I can't let it go.

[C]

Okay, Miles, what would you say is your can't let it go?

[B]

So my can't let it go is people with firm handshakes, you literally can't let go. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so punny. The reason I cannot let it go is because, as you both may know, I broke a finger in the last month playing basketball, which it's my pinky finger, which oddly doesn't impact my life barely at all. Like, it was very painful in the moment, but after a week or two, it like kind of faded into the background. The only time it comes up is when I get new people and I'm like trying to read whether before the handshake happens, whether it's going to be a firm handshake person or not. And deciding, should I just try to switch to a fist bump? Should I try to like, because it is.

[E]

That's.

[D]

Give your other hand.

[B]

I could go, oh, I didn't even think I could pretend to be lefty.

[D]

You have two hands.

[B]

I know, but doesn't. I've never. I don't know that I've ever. I think even left handed, people use their right hand for handshake. I think that would be. And again, I think I go back to like, I keep having this mental gymnastics thing happening. To your point of like, should I use my left hand? The other option is I could just tell somebody I have a broken finger, let's not do the handshake. But I'm doing the decision of like, do I really want to, like, have the conversation about this. Do I want or is it worth it to just, like, feel excruciating pain for, like, seven seconds, and then I can just move on with my life?

[C]

I would say it's not worth the pain.

[D]

It's not worth the pain.

[C]

We should need to maybe remove that as, like, a barrier.

[B]

So I should. Do you think. You guys think I should bring it up, or you think I should go lefty?

[C]

I would either like, aggressively lean into the leftiness or just be. Or be honest, but don't put yourself through unnecessary pain.

[B]

So here's the problem, and I've actually thought about this, too, because I. I have played out the, like, be honest version of this. But actually, I think the people I don't want to stereotype, but the people who have the firmest handshake are also the people who are less likely to, like, sympathize with the idea that I have a broken bone. I'm changing my behavior for it. I think that's the other thing I'm realizing is the people who aren't gonna squeeze the heck out of my hand are people who. I feel comfortable talking in that way. But I just think it's like all of this is, like, every interaction has this for me right now.

[D]

I will say in defense of the firm handshake people. I judge people based on their handshakes. Dead fish hate it. I will judge everything about you.

[B]

So are you a firm handshake shaker?

[D]

Let's shake right now.

[B]

I'm not. Left hand. Left hand and show me. Oh, that is. That's a firm handshake.

[C]

See? Imagine if that had happened with your other hand.

[B]

That would have hurt. That would have legit hurt.

[D]

And I'm so.

[B]

You're the problem. I know. Compensating much? Barbara, our congressional correspondent. What can't you let go of?

[C]

Well, I feel like it's gotten less and less erudite as we've gone around the room. And I'm gonna. Mine is not political at all, but it is something that's very important to me. The thing that I cannot let go of is heated rivalry. And I am. My biggest pet peeve in life, which I think goes even beyond a pet peeve, is I hate when people spoil stuff. So worry not, listener. I am not gonna spoil anything. I'm just gonna say it is the best television show. Best television. Miles told me the other day that no matter how many times I repeat it, it doesn't, like, make it more true. I disagree.

[B]

You're gonna do this right now. You're gonna say it.

[C]

I think it is the best show that I have ever seen on television. It's six episodes. I highly recommend it. My sister and I watched it when we were having a little sister trip together, and it wasn't enough to watch it once. We watched it multiple times. I just spent kind of maybe too much money the other night on some merch. I just think that in a time where there isn't a lot of widespread joy, we have to seek it out. And so I recommend this. And I just want to say thank you to Jacob Tierney, the creator, writer and director who has brought so much joy into my life.

[B]

Now it just feels like you're trying to fish for something. I don't know if you're, like, hoping.

[C]

To, like, there's nothing to get.

[E]

I don't know.

[B]

I'm just like, why do you now it's getting weird. Barbara, what are you hoping for comes from this?

[C]

Oh, I just. Well, there's already a season two coming, so I'm already.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you like this podcast, I just want to remind everyone, please hit the follow button so you make sure you don't miss an episode and you can come back and hear Barbara talk about heated rivalry Season two. You won't.

[C]

I mean, please give me my own podcast just to talk about it.

[B]

I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

[D]

I'm Jimena Bustillo. And I cover immigration policy.

[C]

I'm Barbara Sprent. I cover Congress.

[B]

For now, our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Our editor is Rachel Bay. Our producers are Casey Morell and Bria Suggs. And thanks to Krishna Kalamer. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[D]

Foreign.

[E]

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