DOGE's Potential Impact On Social Security & The VA

Summary

Summary of "DOGE's Potential Impact On Social Security & The VA" – NPR Politics Podcast

Release Date: March 26, 2025

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Susan Davis, Ashley Lopez, and Quill Lawrence delve into the Trump administration's ongoing efforts to restructure two pivotal federal agencies: the Social Security Administration (SSA) and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). The discussion unpacks the proposed cuts, their potential ramifications, and the broader political implications surrounding these changes.

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1. Proposed Cuts to the Social Security Administration

Layoffs and Structural Changes

Ashley Lopez begins the conversation by outlining the Trump administration's plans to reduce the workforce and restructure the SSA. Currently employing approximately 57,000 individuals, the SSA aims to eliminate around 7,000 positions. However, union representatives warn that the actual number of job losses could surpass this figure due to return-to-office mandates and growing discontent among federal employees.

Ashley Lopez [01:16]: "The Social Security Administration at the start of the Trump administration had about 57,000 employees, and they're looking to get rid of about 7,000 of those jobs."

Impact on Services

Susan Davis probes the implications of these cuts on the millions who rely on SSA services. Lopez explains that reducing staff and closing regional offices will likely exacerbate already long wait times for assistance, both in person and over the phone. Additionally, a new policy may require beneficiaries to appear in person for support, adding another layer of inconvenience.

Ashley Lopez [02:25]: "Any cuts in staffing are expected to increase wait times for help, both in person and over the phone."

Contradiction in Efficiency Claims

Davis highlights the seeming contradiction in the administration’s rationale for these cuts, questioning how reducing staff can lead to greater efficiency when it appears to hinder essential services.

Susan Davis [03:30]: "It seems like such a contradiction that these cuts are being made under the guise of making the administration more efficient."

Concerns from Former Commissioners and Advocates

Lopez shares insights from past SSA commissioners and advocates who caution that abrupt, top-down changes without agency input can be disastrous. Former Commissioner Martin O'Malley notably warned that the current conditions could effectively halt the agency’s operations.

Ashley Lopez [03:45]: "Former Social Security administration commissioners like Martin O'Malley... said if you want to create a situation that will basically bring the agency to a halt, like the conditions are there now."

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2. Drastic Reductions in the Department of Veterans Affairs

Scope and Proposed Cuts

Quill Lawrence provides an overview of the VA, emphasizing its status as the second-largest government department after the Pentagon, with a vast network of hospitals and clinics staffed by 480,000 employees. The administration has already cut 2,400 probationary positions and is considering further reductions of up to 83,000 roles, potentially reversing gains made under the bipartisan PACT Act.

Quill Lawrence [04:28]: "We obtained an internal memo from VA saying that they want to cut 83,000 more, which would cut it back to the levels before this law called the PACT act was passed."

Impact on Veteran Care

Lawrence expresses concern over the ability of the VA to maintain quality care amid such significant workforce reductions. With a substantial number of healthcare positions exempt from the hiring freeze, the administration's cutbacks appear to target administrative roles, which could delay disability claims processing and impair service delivery.

Quill Lawrence [05:51]: "If you cut the people reading those claims, we'll have problems like we did in the past, where it's taking a couple of years for someone to get an answer on their disability claim."

Healthcare Workforce Challenges

Despite the hiring freeze, the VA continues to face shortages in critical healthcare roles such as doctors and nurses. Lawrence notes that instability within the VA may deter medical professionals from joining, exacerbating existing staffing issues.

Quill Lawrence [13:47]: "These doctors and nurses don't have to look too hard to find a job in the private sector instead."

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3. Political Implications of the Proposed Cuts

Undermining Traditional Republican Support

Susan Davis raises a pertinent question about the Republican administration’s willingness to cut benefits in areas typically supported across the political spectrum, such as Social Security and veterans’ services.

Susan Davis [06:39]: "Everything's partisan in Washington, but generally speaking, health benefits for veterans often brings about much more support in Capitol Hill."

Concerns Over Social Security as a "Third Rail"

Davis challenges the notion that Social Security is untouchable in American politics, citing recent comments by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick that imply potential vulnerabilities within the SSA.

Susan Davis [08:18]: "Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother in law...she just wouldn't."

Potential Backlash and Congressional Pressure

Lopez and Lawrence discuss the likelihood of political pushback from both the public and Congress. Veterans and seniors, who are crucial constituencies, could mobilize opposition against the cuts, forcing Congress to take a stand. Past attempts to reduce VA budgets have faced immediate backlash, suggesting that similar resistance may arise again.

Quill Lawrence [12:37]: "Trying to cut jobs and facilities at VA hasn't worked in the past because...they provide a lot of jobs."

Uncertainty Surrounding the Implementation of Cuts

Both hosts acknowledge the uncertainty of whether the proposed cuts will materialize fully. Analysts suggest that while the administration is intent on pursuing these reductions, unforeseen political or operational challenges could necessitate adjustments.

Ashley Lopez [12:37]: "There could be adjustments made in the future if there are serious problems with the way the agency is running."

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4. Conclusion: The Future of SSA and VA Under DOGE

The episode concludes with a nuanced view of the Trump administration's strategies to overhaul the SSA and VA. While the intent appears to be increasing efficiency and reducing federal expenditures, the potential consequences threaten to disrupt essential services for millions of Americans. The political landscape remains uncertain, with strong indications that both public opinion and congressional actions will play significant roles in shaping the ultimate outcomes of these proposed cuts.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ashley Lopez [01:16]: "The Social Security Administration at the start of the Trump administration had about 57,000 employees, and they're looking to get rid of about 7,000 of those jobs."

• Susan Davis [03:30]: "It seems like such a contradiction that these cuts are being made under the guise of making the administration more efficient."

• Quill Lawrence [05:51]: "If you cut the people reading those claims, we'll have problems like we did in the past, where it's taking a couple of years for someone to get an answer on their disability claim."

• Susan Davis [08:18]: "Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother in law...she just wouldn't."

• Quill Lawrence [12:37]: "Trying to cut jobs and facilities at VA hasn't worked in the past because...they provide a lot of jobs."

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This episode provides a comprehensive examination of the Trump administration's policies affecting Social Security and veterans' services, highlighting the tension between governmental efficiency objectives and the essential needs of vulnerable populations. As the political dynamics continue to evolve, the future of these critical agencies remains a subject of intense scrutiny and debate.

Transcript

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[Claudia]

Hi, I'm Claudia. And I'm Wyatt.

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And we're on our way to the In a Pickle Festival in New Braunfels, Texas.

[Susan Davis]

This podcast was recorded at 1:05pm on Wednesday, March 26.

[Claudia]

Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but soon we will find out why this festival is such a big deal. Okay, here's the show.

[Susan Davis]

I think I would enjoy a Pickle festival, assuming it's not a euphemism for anything.

[Claudia]

Yeah. And New Braunfels is a cool town. It's really close to me here in Austin. It's like a, it's like a German town in the middle of Central Texas.

[Susan Davis]

All right. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

[Claudia]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Quill Lawrence]

I'm Quill Lawrence. I cover veterans and the VA and.

[Susan Davis]

Today on the show, more on the Trump administration's continuing efforts to reshape the federal government. We're going to focus today on two agencies in particular, the Social Security Administration and the Department of Veterans Affairs. Ashley, I want to start with you because you've been reporting on some of the proposed changes to the Social Security Administration. What are they?

[Claudia]

Yeah, so I mean, it's been a slew of things that have been proposed recently. But I think the bigger changes that are expected to come, like in many agencies in the federal government, there's fairly big layoffs coming. So the Social Security Administration at the start of the Trump administration had about 57,000 employees, and they're looking to get rid of about 7,000 of those jobs. I talked to some union folks who think by the end of the year they may lose more people than that because of the return to office policies, as well as just like the general pressure that federal workers are feeling right now. And they think those things will lead to a sort of unpredictable number of people leaving the agency, which I should already say is like at a 50 year staffing load. And so and then there's like another big change, which is sort of a structural thing that advocates say could actually have a big impact on the agency and services. And that is that the Trump administration plans to drastically cut back a layer of management. They announced that they're cutting six out of the agency's 10 regional offices, which provide a lot of support to the 1200 field offices that are across the country and some of which of those are also being closed.

[Susan Davis]

What do you think these cuts would mean to services? Because the Social Security Administration helps millions of people.

[Claudia]

Yeah, I mean, the Social Security administration serves roughly 73 million Americans, a lot of people. And already the agency has had a hard time keeping up with that workload. So any cuts in staffing are expected to increase wait times for help, both in person and over the phone. And the agency also announced this new policy that could force some folks to travel in person for help. So this could become a very frustrating situation for many Americans who have already, you know, have had to have had a lot of patience in order to get services. And, you know, the paperwork requirements alone for disability services are pretty immense. It can already take years for people to get those services. And folks are worried this will just take longer moving forward when a wait time is already really long. And you know, as far as the regional offices, which I mentioned, these offices provide support to local field offices that most Americans interact with. Whether it's like it HR or even problem solving and training, that's where these local folks turn to. So advocates told me they're worried that this is going to make it harder for people to get problems fixed and in general just make the jobs of those people in those public facing roles, like, much harder.

[Susan Davis]

I mean, it seems like such a contradiction that these cuts are being made under the guise of making the administration more efficient. But what you're describing sounds like a critical function of government becoming a lot less efficient.

[Claudia]

Yeah. And I mean, there are a lot of people, past commissioners and advocates who say, like, there are places to create efficiency, like any agency could get better. Like just sort of announcing from one day to the next big changes without agency input is sort of a recipe for disaster, folks told me. And you know, there are former Social Security administration commissioners like Martin O'Malley under the Biden administration was like, if you want to create a situation that will basically bring the agency to a halt, like the conditions are there now. And so they're really concerned.

[Susan Davis]

Quill, let's talk about the va. It's a huge federal agency. Can you give us the sense of the scope of it and the type of cuts the Trump administration is looking at?

[Quill Lawrence]

Yeah, I mean, it's the second largest government department after the Pentagon, and that's because it's a system of hundreds of hospitals and clinics across the country in almost every state. They have 480,000 staff, but they've already cut 2,400 probationary employees in that first round. And they've probably lost the same number, so up to about 5,000 now because of a hiring freeze on many job titles. We obtained an internal memo from VA saying that they want to cut 83,000 more, which would cut it back to the levels before this law called the PACT act was passed. And that was a huge bipartisan law that brought all of these veterans into VA care who hadn't qualified for it before. Everything from people exposed to toxins during Vietnam, Agent Orange, to people exposed to toxic burn pits in Iraq and Afghanistan. Literally millions of vets joined the the medical roles. And so they've plussed up on the medical staff since then to take care of this major influx. And it's kind of hard to see how they can cut that deep without affecting that care.

[Susan Davis]

Do you have a sense of that 80,000 number? Does it sound to you that it would cut very deep into. I'm thinking healthcare providers, nurses, therapists, doctors, or is it more on the bureaucratic side?

[Quill Lawrence]

300,000 of these are healthcare jobs and they've exempted those from the hiring freeze. So at the same time they're saying we're gonna lop off a mass of your staff. We are still really wanting to hire and in fact, we're short of these healthcare jobs. Doctors and nurses are hard to find. And the people who do administration whose jobs, who are bureaucrats, those are the folks who are reading the veterans claims to find out if they qualify for VA healthcare or what sort of a dis check they should get each month for having lost two limbs to a bomb in Afghanistan, et cetera. So if you cut the people reading those claims, we'll have problems like we did in the past, where it's taking a couple of years for someone to get an answer on their disability claim.

[Claudia]

Cool.

[Susan Davis]

One of the things I find so surprising about this level of deep cut at the VA is that, you know, everything's partisan in Washington, as you well know. But generally speaking, health benefits for veterans often brings about much more support in Capitol Hill and in both part opposition. Are you kind of surprised that a Republican controlled Washington is willing to cut this deep into the va?

[Quill Lawrence]

Yeah, I mean, veterans are political dynamite. You can't, especially around election time. Everyone cares about veterans. There's a debate about whether that stops after the votes are counted. But there are veteran constituencies in every state. They have organizations that put out talking points there, so they're politically organized. Veterans groups will tell you if you want to cut budgets, well, I'm sorry, they already paid for these benefits in advance. By going to war and bleeding on the battlefield.

[Susan Davis]

All right. Let's take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk more about the political implications of these proposals.

[Claudia]

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[Susan Davis]

And actually, when it comes to Social Security, there's a bit of a political cliche, that it's a third rail of American politics and that nobody wants to touch it because the blowback would be so great. And one of the things I have found striking, if you still believe that cliche is true, is that there's some folks in the Trump administration who have been stepping in it lately. And I would point to the recent comments by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, who said this on the all in podcast.

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[Susan Davis]

I think that's a cut we're going to hear a lot in the midterm elections. But talk about that, Ashley, in that the idea that this isn't just something that Americans can let go by and not need. Millions of people literally need Social Security to survive.

[Claudia]

Yeah. I mean, even According to the AARP, something like 40% of elderly Americans, like this is their main source of income. So if you remove a month, like even just one check, like that means they can't buy groceries that month. That means they can't afford their prescriptions. I mean, it would be a huge impact on millions of people. I mean, you know, as you mentioned, like, it is surprising to hear anyone in any sort of political context say something like that. But even Trump himself said he wouldn't dare cut Social Security. In particular, he was vehement about this throughout the campaign. And early on, he did spare the agency from a lot of his administration's early efforts to shrink the federal workforce. Like at the va, the hiring freeze did not apply to the Social Security administration and deferred resignation, that program did not apply to the ssa. So this was something that even early on the Trump administration was aware would be a weird move. But it's obvious things started to change once the department of government efficiency or doge. You know, Elon Musk's group set their sights on the Social Security Administration. Musk in particular started, like, accusing the agency, without any evidence, I should say, of having massive amounts of fraud. So I think they're trying to change the political reality of the Social Security Administration by sort of undermining it with claims of fraud. But we'll see. I think it's an open question of whether that will work.

[Susan Davis]

I also think this is interesting because these cuts and these proposals are coming from the president, from the White House, from doge, the executive branch, however you want to put it. But generally speaking, in the past, these reforms have come from Congress. And I'm curious to see if this becomes a pressure point for Republicans who control Congress for letting these cuts happen. Because I think about this, you know, if you've got a veteran who's getting their benefits cut, or if you have a senior who's not getting their Social Security check and there's paperwork problems, they called her member of Congress, Right. Like, the Doge is potentially creating a whole wave of problems for the people that will ultimately have to deal with.

[Quill Lawrence]

It, I would say. Over at va, we've been trying to figure out whether the dog is wagging the tail or vice versa here. And I've seen in some congressional hearings where VA officials go and they're under oath and they get a little bit granular. I mean, they can't answer, or at least I can say in these hearings, they didn't answer how many staff they've had cuts from their own small departments, like, for example, the home loan office. And if they don't know, it would seem to imply that it's not coming from their office, but it's coming from Doge. But then we have people denying that and saying, no, this is VA's plan, and VA will have a plan out by the end of the summer about how they're going to do these cuts. But it does seem like the cut idea is coming from the Doge side.

[Susan Davis]

Do both of you get the sense that these cuts like they're going to happen no matter what, or do you think there's still a possibility that there could be such a political pushback to it that even Doge might have to say, okay, we're gonna pull back on these two things, which I think, you know, politics has gotten very partisan. But veterans, seniors, the disabled, orphaned children still tend to be the types of Americans that the vast majority of people in elected politics wanna help.

[Claudia]

I mean, I think it's an open question. I know that the Trump administration, it's important for them to at least look like they are keeping their promises. But on the agency side, even the nominated commissioner, Frank Bisignano, said during his hearing that, you know, he's going to see how things go. Like this isn't, you know, the Trump administration's plans or something he has to follow, but, you know, the repercussions of them is something he's going to keep an eye on. So there could be adjustments made in the future if there are serious problems with the way the agency is running. But we'll see. I don't see how they could scale back from a huge proposed plan, but if it backfires, I don't know how they could keep moving forward either.

[Quill Lawrence]

I mean, every step so far looking over at VA has had some whiplash. Even those original cuts of probationary employees, each round of 1200, 1400 cuts they made, they cut people from the Veterans Crisis Hotline, the suicide hotline that staffed 24, 7, and then they immediately put them back because apparently they thought these people maybe were essential, but also because there was an immediate political backlash. So trying to cut jobs and facilities at VA hasn't worked in the past because, again, everyone has one. It's just like trying to close a military base that those exist in Congress, people's districts, and they provide a lot of jobs. And the other thing is that, I mean, these health care jobs, which they don't want to cut, they're not easy to fill. But the, the instability that we've seen in these first few months is making clinicians think twice. You know, these doctors and nurses don't have to look too hard to find a job in the private sector instead. So I don't know, they might end up making cuts to jobs that they didn't want to cut because people will be thinking twice about coming to work for VA as a doctor or a nurse.

[Susan Davis]

All right. I think we'll leave it there. Thank you both for your reporting. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

[Claudia]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I also cover politics.

[Quill Lawrence]

And I'm Quill Lawrence. I cover veterans and the va. And.

[Susan Davis]

Thanks for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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