Explaining Trump's New Travel Ban

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast: Explaining Trump's New Travel Ban

Release Date: June 5, 2025
Host: Miles Parks
Guests: Jimena Bustillo (Immigration Policy), Frank Ordonez (White House)

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1. Introduction to the New Travel Ban

In the latest episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, host Miles Parks delves into the Trump administration's newly announced travel ban targeting individuals from nearly 20 countries. The discussion centers on the specifics of the ban, its implications, and the surrounding controversies.

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2. Details of the Ban – Countries Affected

Jimena Bustillo begins by outlining the scope of the executive action:

“The executive action targets 12 countries for a full ban to come to the United States, and that includes countries like Haiti, Somalia, and Afghanistan. And then it also is a partial ban on seven countries, including Cuba, Laos, and Venezuela.”
(Timestamp: 01:27)

The partial ban varies based on visa categories and travel methods, adding layers of complexity to the policy's implementation.

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3. Exceptions to the Ban

Frank Ordonez highlights that certain exceptions exist within the ban:

“If, for example, you have a green card, if you are a dual citizen, if you have some existing visa members, such as connection to family members, actually certain athletes are able to get in, also refugees who have been granted asylum and also Afghans who helped the United States in the war in Afghanistan.”
(Timestamp: 02:01)

However, he notes a contentious aspect:

“Afghans who helped the US during the war have a carve-out, but their family members do not necessarily have a carve-out.”
(Timestamp: 02:01)

This exclusion potentially affects tens of thousands awaiting entry into the U.S.

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4. Justification for the Ban

The administration justifies the ban primarily on security grounds:

“The White House says that they campaigned on a promise to keep Americans safe, and they needed to do this to protect Americans from terrorist attacks.”
(Timestamp: 02:58)

They argue that many targeted countries "lack proper vetting capabilities" and often have adversarial relations with the United States.

Jimena Bustillo adds context regarding visa overstays:

“President Trump really relies on this idea of visa overstays, and he signals out a few different types of visas... he alleges that the B1 and B2 visas... are also visas that some of these countries, he says they overstay.”
(Timestamp: 03:32)

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5. Impact and Number of Affected Individuals

Frank Ordonez estimates the ban's extensive reach:

“We're talking about 19 countries in total... it's a lot. A lot of people.”
(Timestamp: 04:23)

He specifically mentions tens of thousands of Afghans potentially excluded from entering the U.S., not accounting for additional individuals from other affected nations.

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6. Comparison to the 2017 Travel Ban

The episode draws parallels between the current ban and the first Trump-era travel ban: Frank Ordonez states:

“I'd say it's a lot more expansive. That experience with that first ban is why this ban is so controversial.”
(Timestamp: 09:14)

He recounts the 2017 ban's challenges, including multiple revisions and court battles, noting that the current ban includes similar exemptions, suggesting that lessons were learned from past implementations.

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7. Potential Legal Challenges

While no lawsuits have been filed at the time of recording, Frank Ordonez anticipates significant legal pushback:

“I highly anticipate some lawsuits, and it'll be very interesting to see how it goes forward.”
(Timestamp: 10:16)

Advocacy groups like the ACLU are prepared to challenge the executive action, potentially mirroring the legal battles of 2017.

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8. Impact on Residents in the United States

Jimena Bustillo discusses the uncertainty for those already in the U.S.:

“Folks who are here with citizenship or with green card status... seem to be, for now, pretty protected by this executive order. Folks who are here on temporary visas... there could be broader questions about travel restrictions, confusion at airports.”
(Timestamp: 11:25)

Additionally, the ban halts plans for family members of individuals in the U.S., exacerbating the strain on those awaiting reunification.

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9. Expected Backlash

Reflecting on the 2017 reaction, Frank Ordonez discusses potential public and logistical responses:

“Trump was reelected. It was a big part of his campaign... I think we're going how much they did learn because I really, really do anticipate this to go to the courts.”
(Timestamp: 12:38)

While anticipating fewer airport disruptions due to prior experiences, the political and social backlash remains a significant concern.

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10. Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with an emphasis on the unfolding legal and social ramifications of the travel ban. As the administration navigates potential court challenges and public response, the long-term impact on U.S. immigration policy and international relations remains to be seen.

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Notable Quotes:

• Frank Ordonez: “If, for example, you have a green card... certain athletes are able to get in...” (02:01)
• Jimena Bustillo: “President Trump really relies on this idea of visa overstays...” (03:32)
• Frank Ordonez: “We're talking about 19 countries in total... it's a lot.” (04:23)

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This comprehensive analysis provides listeners with a clear understanding of the new travel ban's intricacies, its broader implications, and the anticipated challenges ahead.

Transcript

[NPR Announcer]

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[Ayanna]

This is Ayanna from Ithaca, New York. We just got done trying 19 different Mac and cheeses at the Mac and Cheese Bowlf fundraisers to Support our local FoodNet Meals on Wheels.

[Miles Parks]

This podcast was recorded at 12:36pm on Thursday, June 5, 2025.

[Ayanna]

Things might have changed by the time you hear this, but we certainly will have had our filling of Mac and cheese for a while. Enjoy the show.

[Frank Ordonez]

Wow. I mean, I got two kids. I didn't know you could have 19 variations of Mac and cheese.

[Miles Parks]

I need a nap just hearing about eating that much Mac and cheese.

[Jimena Bustillo]

I stopped my lunch to tape this pod, so that made me hungrier.

[Miles Parks]

Triggering. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

[Jimena Bustillo]

I'm Jimena Bustia and I cover immigration policy.

[Frank Ordonez]

And I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Miles Parks]

And today on the show, the Trump administration has issued a new travel ban starting next week targeting people from almost 20 countries. Ximena, let's just start there. What does this new ban say and who does it affect?

[Jimena Bustillo]

So the executive action targets 12 countries for a full ban to come to the United States, and that includes countries like Haiti, Somalia and Afghanistan. And then it also is a partial ban on seven countries, including Cuba, Laos and Venezuela. And that partial ban really changes depending on the country and what category of visas or way of traveling to the United States are limited.

[Miles Parks]

But then for all of these countries, there are some exceptions, right, Franco?

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah, there are some exceptions to the ban. If, for example, you have a green card, if you are a dual citizen, if you have some existing visa members, such as connection to family members, actually certain athletes are able to get in, also refugees who have been granted asylum and also Afghans who helped the United States in the war in Afghanistan. And that's actually a bit of a controversial aspect because now the Afghans who helped the US during the war, they have a carve out for them, but their family members do not necessarily have a carve out. And that is likely to impact like tens of thousands of people who were on a pipeline to get to the United States are maybe gonna be excluded from that opportunity now.

[Miles Parks]

And what's the justification being made for this pretty massive travel ban.

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, it's extremely sweeping. And the administration's rationale for putting this in place, one is that it's just fulfilling a campaign promise. I mean, the White House says that they campaigned on a promise to keep Americans safe, and they needed to do this to protect Americans from terrorist attacks. And they said that a lot of these countries lacked proper vetting capabilities. And look, most of these countries. Countries are largely ones that have adversarial relations with the United States.

[Jimena Bustillo]

And, you know, in his executive order, President Trump really relies on this idea of visa overstays, and he signals out a few different types of visas. I think this is a good moment to remind everyone that there are dozens of visas and ways that someone can come into the United States. You know, there's multiple types of educational visas, such as FM or J visas, and those are in some cases mentioned in this executive order as being something that people overstay from particular countries. And he alleges that also the B1 and B2 visas, which are for business, coming here for work, or tourism for the B2, are also visas that some of these countries, he says they overstay.

[Miles Parks]

I mean, when we talk about a full ban from a number of countries, that sounds like a lot of people impacted. Is there any sense on the number of people who are going to be impacted by this?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, not yet, Miles. I mean, this is such a sweeping order. I mean, we were just talking about tens of thousands of Afghans alone being limited here. So the number would be, you know, could be exponentially higher. We're talking about 19 countries in total, you know, 12 being a full ban, seven being partial ban. It's a lot. A lot of people.

[Miles Parks]

Well, one of the interesting things is it does seem like this travel ban is being pegged to the recent terror attack in Colorado. But that person who's alleged to have done that attack is not from one of these countries, right?

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah, he was from Egypt. And the president actually cited that attack in his video statement yesterday when he announced this travel ban and said that it was cases like this, which he said justify why this needs to be done, that there are too many people overstaying their visa. But like you said, that person was from Egypt. It was not on the list. And Trump was actually asked about that today, and he basically said that Egypt has been a country that they've been dealing with very closely and that they have things under control. And he said the countries on the list don't have things under Control.

[Miles Parks]

I mean, what's been the reaction from the immigration policy community to this new ban?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, they've been pushing back. I mean, I mentioned Afghanistan, those on the special immigrant visa category. They were very concerned that those who worked for the United States during the war would not be allowed to enter the United States. The administration, again, did have a carve out for them, but they are very concerned right now about all the family members. We're talking tens of thousands people who are already on a pipeline to come to the United States. And they're saying it sends a very, very wrong message about what the United States stands for when you're not helping the family members of people who, you know, helped the United States in such a, you know, in a war.

[Jimena Bustillo]

I think a lot of the immigration policy advocates, you know, really looked at the first Trump administration as a blueprint for what might come in this administration, you know, looking at things like limiting the refugee program or completely pausing it in this case, and then seeing that a travel was instituted during the first administration and what that might look like this time around. And so it's one of those things that I think groups were gearing up and waiting for, but you just didn't exactly know what the specifics would be, who would be on the list, what the justification would be. And it's those, like, kind of nitty gritty details that you just have to wait until that order's out in order to react to it. But I think Franco's completely right. Either way, the argument is kind of the same in that you now have, you know, thousands of people who were already on a valid pipeline to come to the United States. Maybe they'd already gotten started on their paperwork, started on their background checks, even been in the interview processes. And, you know, in recent months, we've really just seen this administration pull that back, you know, like, you know, people who had plane tickets ready to come on the refugee program, now those flights are canceled. You know, prospective international students who are in the middle of interviewing now, those interviews are canceled. And so now this is like, in addition to all the various ways that he's curbing legal forms of migration.

[Miles Parks]

All right, well, we're going to talk a little bit more about how this does compare to that first ban back in 2017, right after a break.

[Tanya Moseley]

I'm Tanya Moseley, co host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here, our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from npr. And whyy.

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[Miles Parks]

And we're back. So, Franco, we mentioned that there was a travel ban during the first Trump administration back in 2017. Kind of went back and forth with the courts, but they did end up landing on a ban that was found to be legal by the Supreme Court. How does this current ban that's just been announced compared to that one?

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's a lot more expansive. That experience with that first ban is why this ban is so controversial. I mean, it has such a lengthy backstory. I mean, Trump campaigned in his first go at trying to be president on a Muslim ban. And when he got into office, he signed an executive order, you know, targeting seven Muslim majority nations. It got wrapped up in the courts. There were lawsuits. There were also lots and lots of protests, mayhem at airports. It was a very big deal. I mean, it really kind of defined much of the early days of the administration. And, you know, he did make a lot of revisions. It did go to the court. The courts blocked it. He made more revisions. They blocked it again. It was like the third iteration of the ban with exceptions such as allowing green card holders as well as allowing people with pre existing visas. I'll note those are some of the same exemptions that are being allowed now. So you could argue that the Trump administration has learned from that first experience.

[Miles Parks]

Are we still expecting some sort of legal action from this ban?

[Frank Ordonez]

Look, I have not seen lawsuits filed yet, but I think there is no doubt that we're going to see lots of lawsuits or we're going to certainly see a targeted lawsuit. I did talk with advocate and lawyers in advance of this administration. Let's remember that Trump did do an executive order to look at these things. It was planned, it was expected. The advocacy, the groups Such as ACLU have been preparing for this and said they have their own day one plan. We talked a lot about what would Trump do on day one. They told me they also have a day one plan. So I highly anticipate they are, you know, dusting off their playbook, looking at this very closely. This is a very long proclamation, so it's going to take some fine tooth reading and looking into and pencil writing in the margins to figure out exactly what they want to do. But I highly anticipate some lawsuits, and it'll be very interesting to see how it goes forward.

[Miles Parks]

Any idea, Ximena, how this is going to impact people from these countries that are already in the United States?

[Jimena Bustillo]

I think part of that is still yet to be determined in the how far reaching, you know, the impact of this policy could be. You know, folks who are here with citizenship or with green card status, you know, seem to be, for now, pretty protected by this executive order. Folks who are here on temporary visas, you know, there could be broader questions about travel restrictions, confusion at airports. You know, advocates are already warning that this is just naturally going to create broad confusion about who counts where, when, and for how long and what abilities they have. But then also there's just kind of the broader concern with those who have family members that are living in these other countries that were hoping to come to the United States in any capacity as a, as a tourist, to visit family, as a student or, you know, maybe under a refugee or some other protected immigrant visa status. And so, you know, that is now effectively on pause. And for a lot of families that have watched these programs be paused since January, this is just another thing to add to the list in the confusion.

[Miles Parks]

I wonder about Franco. You mentioned a second ago that the first travel ban, really, and I remember it pretty vividly, the kind of backlash that immediately followed that.

[Frank Ordonez]

Right?

[Miles Parks]

I mean, it really was. You know, you could turn on any TV and you could find the video of people protesting or these huge lines at airports. Are we expecting that sort of backlash to this new order at all?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, part of the backlash at that time is you had people who were being stopped on flights. I mean, there was such chaos and confusion at airport. So people were getting on flights and landing in the United States and then all of a sudden learning of this new travel ban. I anticipate that they learned from that experience as well and that you're not gonna see that kind of chaos at the airports. That said, I think we'll see. You know, Trump was reelected. It was a big part of his campaign. I mean, I think it is a very much a legitimate question. But I certainly do believe that they learned a lot from that first experience. And I think we're going how much they did learn because I really, really do anticipate this to go to the courts. And I think that is going to be the most fascinating thing to watch is under what grounds are lawsuits filed and how much did they dot their I's and cross their t's? And how many iterations potentially will it take to get this one through? Because, again, it is a very sweeping proclamation.

[Miles Parks]

All right. Well, we can leave it there for today. I'm Miles. I'm Charles Parks. I cover voting.

[Jimena Bustillo]

I'm Ximena Bustillo. And I cover immigration policy.

[Frank Ordonez]

And I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Miles Parks]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[H]

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[Sarah Gonzalez]

As NPR's daily economics podcast, the indicator has been asking businesses how tariffs are affecting their bottom line.

[Frank Ordonez]

I paid 800,000 today. You paid $800,000 in tariffs today? Yes.

[Miles Parks]

Wow.

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And what that means for your bottom line? Listen to the indicator from Planet Money. Find us wherever you get your podcasts.

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On the Indicator from Planet Money podcast. We're here to help you make sense of the economic news from Trump's tariffs.

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It's called in game theory a trigger.

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Strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which.

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Sort of has a cowboy esque ring.

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To it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is. For insight every weekday, listen to NPR's the Indicator from Planet Money.