House Releases 23,000 Pages Of Epstein Documents, Trump Calls It A ‘Hoax’

Summary

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NPR Politics Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: House Releases 23,000 Pages Of Epstein Documents, Trump Calls It A ‘Hoax’
Date: November 14, 2025
Hosts & Contributors:

• Sarah McCammon (Politics reporter)
• Stephen Bowler (Politics reporter)
• Tamara Keith (White House correspondent)
• Domenico Montanaro (Senior political editor and correspondent)

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Overview

This episode dives into two major political stories:

1. The House release of 23,000 pages of Jeffrey Epstein’s private files and the subsequent political reverberations, including substantial references to Donald Trump and his claims that the revelations are a "hoax."
2. The ongoing struggle within the Trump White House over economic messaging, particularly the “affordability” crisis and political risks associated with inflation and cost of living.

The panel unpacks the contents of the Epstein documents, explains the difference between these and other "Epstein files," reports on the House and White House responses, and explores the practical and political impacts for President Trump and Congress. The episode concludes with a lighter segment, “Can’t Let It Go.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epstein Document Release: What Was Released and Why?

• Nature of the Documents:

  • The House Oversight Committee released 23,000 pages from Jeffrey Epstein’s private files via subpoena from Epstein's estate.
  • These files are distinct from DOJ criminal files and primarily include private emails and other correspondence, not formal court documents.
  • Release was heavily driven by House Democrats, with some Republican support.

• Content Highlights:

  • Many emails document Epstein’s obsession with Donald Trump and track Trump’s social and political movements.
  • No direct communications between Epstein and Trump were found, but Trump is a consistent topic:
    • 2011: Epstein emails Ghislaine Maxwell about Trump, refers to him as “that dog that hasn’t barked”; mentions Trump spending significant time at Epstein’s house with one of the alleged victims. [03:10]
    • 2015: Author Michael Wolff suggests to Epstein that denying ties to Trump could have PR value.
    • 2019: Epstein claims Trump “knew about the girls” and asks Maxwell to stop (context not provided).
    • Epstein boasts in one email of having compromising photos of Trump and refers to “giving” Trump a girlfriend.
    • Harsh opinions: Epstein tells Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary, “I have met some very bad people, none as bad as Trump … not one decent cell in his body.” [04:10]

Notable Quote:

“There was an email where Epstein said he had photos of Trump with girls in bikinis in his kitchen... and reference to a girlfriend that, after two years, I gave to Donald.”
— Stephen Bowler [03:40]

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2. Political Fallout: Trump’s Response and House Dynamics

• Trump Calls It a Hoax:
  • Trump on Truth Social dismissed the release as “a hoax,” but it remains unclear which aspect he considers fraudulent.
  • He accuses Democrats of weaponizing the release to politically damage him and calls for a DOJ probe into Epstein’s ties to prominent Democrats.

Notable Quote:

"The President has been very active on Truth Social ... now asking DOJ to investigate Epstein’s ties to Democrats like Larry Summers, Bill Clinton... and he sees this as a Democratic hoax aimed at harming him."
— Tamara Keith [04:44]

• House Maneuvering:
  • Much of the pressure to release more files is via a discharge petition; 218 signatures forces a House vote compelling DOJ file releases.
  • Some Republicans, notably Thomas Massie and Lauren Boebert, have joined Democrats.
  • Speaker Mike Johnson previously stalled proceedings but ultimately allowed it as procedural obstacles ran out.
  • Even if the legislation passes the House, passage in the Senate and a veto-proof majority remain high bars.

Notable Moment:

“Before the 218th signature, the White House brought Lauren Boebert to the Situation Room, apparently to get her to rescind her support. She didn't, and now the vote is set.”
— Tamara Keith [07:38]

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3. The Discord on the Right: Republican & Trump Base Reaction

• QAnon & Conspiracy Theories:
  • There remains a segment of Trump’s base that has demanded full Epstein disclosures, energized by conspiracy theories claiming high-level pedophile rings ("QAnon").
  • The bombshell that Trump himself is so present in the files has left the base divided—some want total transparency, others echo Trump’s “hoax” narrative.

Notable Quote:

“Any day Trump has to talk about Epstein and his relationship with Epstein is not a great one for him ... his base is confused how to react. Some want everything out, others call it a Democratic hoax.”
— Domenico Montanaro [10:56]

• Electoral Impact:
  • While Trump won't be on the ballot in 2028, persistent negative coverage and uncertainty keep the GOP in a defensive posture, and Democrats are happy to keep pressing the issue.

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4. White House Messaging Struggles on the Economy

• Persistent Affordability Crisis:
  • Inflation, stagnant labor markets, and high costs (e.g., groceries, energy) are causing public skepticism.
  • Trump administration messaging focuses on positives (stock market, 401ks), which doesn’t resonate for those living paycheck to paycheck.

Notable Quote:

“Trump talks constantly about record setting stock markets and 401ks ... but that leaves out about 40% of Americans… For those living paycheck to paycheck, hearing everything is awesome is not helpful.”
— Tamara Keith [16:14]

• Shifts & White House Action:

  • Behind the scenes, aides indicate the President will adjust his messaging to acknowledge the pain many Americans feel, but in public, he quickly defaults to “costs are way down.”
  • Policy actions: Pushing 50-year mortgages (criticized for ballooning total interest), and considering rolling back certain tariffs to help with food import costs.

• Republican Pushback:

  • Notably, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene publicly rebukes Trump’s message as "gaslighting," highlighting visible cracks in party unity.

Notable Quote:

"Gaslighting the people and trying to tell them prices have come down is not helping. People know what they’re paying at the grocery store."
— Marjorie Taylor Greene (paraphrased by Tamara Keith) [19:45]

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5. Democratic Strategy & Electoral Outlook

• Democratic Messaging:
  • Democrats plan to ride the affordability and health care cost messages through the midterms, focusing on issues like prescription prices and energy bills.
  • Recent off-year election gains are attributed to resonant economic messaging, with hopes to repeat this success.

Notable Quote:

“If costs and affordability are still front-of-mind, then the party in charge—Republicans—are going to get the blame. That’s what Democrats are banking on.”
— Domenico Montanaro [23:13]

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On the House’s procedural wrangling:
  “This is not an invitation to the White House for tea.”
  — Sarah McCammon, [07:35]

• On public dissonance and economic reality:
  "It’s hard to message on affordability when people feel like it's harder for them to afford things. ... Now, Trump is stuck in this vice as well."
  — Domenico Montanaro [18:00]

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Timestamps of Key Sections

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:10 | Introduction to the Epstein document release | | 02:25 | How House obtained Epstein documents and their contents | | 03:40 | Epstein's emails about Trump: details and context | | 04:41 | Trump's public response and Democratic strategy on document release | | 06:32 | House discharge petition and Congressional maneuvering | | 10:32 | Domenico Montanaro joins on broader political ramifications | | 11:57 | Explaining the QAnon disconnect and right-wing conspiracy reaction | | 13:44 | Shifting to Trump’s economic messaging struggles | | 17:14 | Real-world effects of economic messaging, and difficulties for Trump | | 19:45 | Marjorie Taylor Greene's public break with Trump's economic narrative | | 20:10 | White House attempts policy fixes: mortgage proposals and tariff reductions | | 22:23 | Democratic strategy on affordability and midterms |

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“Can’t Let It Go” (Lighter Fare)

• Sarah: The US Mint has stopped producing pennies—personal perspective as her spouse works there. [25:20]
• Tamara: Chasing the elusive Northern Lights with her son, only to miss them due to clouds and is now suffering “Northern Lights FOMO.” [27:03]
• Domenico: Wonder at a French student’s record six-and-a-half hour wheelie for the Guinness Book of World Records. [28:12]
• The hosts trade puns and marvel at world records—ending on a humorous note about uniquely odd achievements.

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Tone & Language

Throughout, the hosts maintain a balanced, analytical, and occasionally wry tone. They bring facts, direct quotations from documents, and clear explanations, but also acknowledge the underlying emotions and human impacts of the stories.

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Summary

This episode provides a thorough breakdown of how the Epstein document release ignited political maneuvering in Congress, complicated Trump's standing with his own base, and revealed deep divides around transparency and conspiracy. Simultaneously, the show highlights the pitfalls of political messaging on the economy in an era of widespread financial pain. The reporting is detailed, and the discussion is candid about the political risks ahead for both major parties. The closing segment offers relatable levity through personal stories and current oddball news, ensuring a well-rounded and engaging listen.

Transcript

[Sarah McCammon]

This week on Consider this an encrypted group chat where members of the National Guard are processing President Trump's actions.

[Domenico Montanaro]

This is just not what any of us signed up for. And I just wonder, like, who's going to stand up to this?

[Sarah McCammon]

Plus, what's next for congressional Democrats after their move this week to release more of Jeffrey Epstein's emails? Listen this week to Consider this on.

[Tamara Keith]

The NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hi, this is Julie Chapman in San Diego, California, walking alongside thousands of others in the Susan G. Komen Three day, a 60 mile journey powered by hope and laughter. This podcast was recorded at 12:21pm Eastern Time on Friday, November 14, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll still be surrounded by my pink bubble family walking for a world without breast cancer. Okay, here's the show.

[Tamara Keith]

I have always been so impressed with people that do that walk. It is endurance.

[Sarah McCammon]

Good cause, for sure. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Stephen Bowler]

I'm Stephen Bowler. I also cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

And I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Sarah McCammon]

And today on the show, the House Oversight committee has released 23,000 pages of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein's private files. We will talk about what we learned this week and what the White House has to say about it. So, Stephen, you have been combing through this massive document release this week. What have you found?

[Stephen Bowler]

It is first important to note that these are not the Epstein files that everybody is talking about in the same way as you mentioned, these are private files that the House Oversight Committee has obtained in batches using a subpoena from the Epstein estate That is different from the Department of Justice files on Epstein and his various criminal cases, his life, his death and everything that came after. So these are private files. And on Wednesday, it started with House Democrats releasing three emails that show Jeffrey Epstein talking about Donald Trump. And shortly thereafter, there were 20,000, the full batch released by House Republicans who say that's not the full picture.

[Sarah McCammon]

So these documents, they come from Epstein's private files. They're not all emails. But who are the emails between? And how did the House Committee get these documents?

[Stephen Bowler]

These emails are to and from Jeffrey Epstein and various powerful associates over the years. And they were obtained by a subpoena from the House Oversight Committee from Epstein's estate.

[Sarah McCammon]

And Stephen, I mean, rumors about these documents or these kinds of documents have been obviously swirling for a long time. But how much of this is new information?

[Stephen Bowler]

Well, it's all new to a certain extent. The three emails that House Democrats highlighted were very specific. There was one email from 2011 where Epstein emailed Ghislaine Maxwell, his associate who's been convicted on trafficking charges. They called Trump, quote, that dog that hasn't barked and says, Trump spent hours at my house with one of the alleged sex trafficking victims. There was a 2015 thread with author Michael Wolf where Wolf suggested that Epstein could get, quote, valuable PR and political currency if Trump ever denied being on Epstein's plane or at his house. There was a 2019 exchange where Epstein said that, of course Trump knew about the girls as he asked Elaine to stop without the context. A few of us also looked at the full 20,000 document tranche, and it revealed that Jeffrey Epstein was pretty obsessed with Donald Trump. They There were emails about Trump's coming and goings to the airport in Palm beach that affected Epstein's travel, but there were a lot of correspondence tracking Trump's rise to the presidency and mocking various scandals. Epstein pitched himself as somebody who could help explain Trump to everybody, from the Russians to other powerful people. And there were other emails in there that kind of raised more questions about their relationship. For example, there was an email where Epstein said he had photos of Trump with girls in bikinis in his kitchen. Trump, quote, almost walking through the door, leaving his nose print on the glass as women were swimming in the pool, and reference to a girlfriend that, quote, after two years, I gave to Donald. And another one that I think worth pointing out is an email Epstein wrote to former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers saying that, quote, I have met some very bad people, none as bad as Trump, and, quote, not one decent cell in his body.

[Sarah McCammon]

So there's a lot there, and a lot of it doesn't sound great for President Trump. Tam, what is President Trump saying about the release of these documents and what's in them?

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, and a lot of those documents come from after Trump has claimed to have completely severed ties with Jeffrey Epstein. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are any correspondence between the two of them. He's just a topic of much conversation and fascination today. The President has been very active on truth Social, and what he has been saying is that this is a hoax. Now, the exact part that is a hoax is not clear, but the President is now asking the Justice Department to investigate Jeffrey Epstein's ties to prominent Democrats, including Larry Summers and Bill Clinton. And he is also making it very clear that he sees this as an effort by Democrats to harm him. And that he needs Republicans to push back on the effort to get these files out because it's just a Democratic hoax aimed at harming him.

[Sarah McCammon]

And as Steven suggested earlier, there's quite a bit more to what's become known as the so called Epstein files, sort of colloquially. Right. I mean, what other documents might be out there?

[Stephen Bowler]

Well, there are these Department of Justice files that deal with the court cases and interviews and transcripts and other things that are completely separate from what the House has been able to get from Epstein's private files. Those are the things that require extra effort and this sort of wrangling through Congress to get done. Because these were court cases, these were federal cases in some cases. And it is not just something as simple as saying, okay, release the files. But it is confusing because there are these two separate but related tracks of information that all feed into this umbrella of this ecosystem about Jeffrey Epstein, what he did, when he did it, and who is he associated with.

[Tamara Keith]

So what Stephen is alluding to here is that for some time now, there has been an effort in the House primarily led by Democrats, but there are a few Republicans who've signed on. And Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky has also been leading the charge on this. To gather signatures on what is called a discharge petition to force a vote by the House of Representatives on instructing the Justice Department to release the so called Epstein files. And on Wednesday, they got the 218th signature on that discharge petition. What that does is it locks it in. It says, now there must be a House vote on the discharge petition. Well, right before they got that 218th signature, the white House invited Congresswoman Lauren Boebert of Colorado, a Republican, over to the Situation Room. The Situation Room being the room where secure significant conversations related to national security have happened.

[Sarah McCammon]

This is not an invitation to the White House for tea.

[Tamara Keith]

This is not. And so they met in the Situation Room. And it appears that it was an effort to get Lauren Boebert to withdraw her signature before it got to 218. Well, she didn't withdraw her signature. Now it's locked. That vote is now set to happen next week. And. And it seems quite likely that it isn't just gonna be a few renegade Republicans voting for it, but it could end up being a large number of Republicans in Congress who ultimately support this bill.

[Sarah McCammon]

Isn't House Speaker Mike Johnson pushing back a little bit, though?

[Tamara Keith]

Well, he was for quite a while. By keeping the House out of session. He didn't swear in a Democratic congresswoman who had been elected in a special election Adelita Grijalva. He didn't swear her in. As a result, they didn't have that 218th signature until he did swear her in this Wednesday. And that's when this all happened. But once it became clear that this discharge petition had the signatures and there was nothing he could do, he is not delaying the vote. He actually said, let's just get it out of the way. But even assuming it does pass the House, it then has to go to the Senate and would ultimately require a signature from the President. So if, if these files are going to be released through this mechanism, they'd probably need like a veto proof majority in both the House and the Senate. And they haven't had one of those on much of anything.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, that's a pretty high bar. Well, Stephen, thank you for pouring through those documents this week and thanks for bringing your reporting to the podcast.

[Stephen Bowler]

Thank you.

[Sarah McCammon]

Tam, you and I will stick around. We'll take a quick break and we'll have more in just a moment.

[Tamara Keith]

I'm Rachel Martin.

[Sarah McCammon]

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[Tamara Keith]

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[Sarah McCammon]

And we're back. And senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro is here. Hi, Domenico, welcome.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hey, great to be with you.

[Sarah McCammon]

I want to pick up where we left off in the first part of the podcast with Jeffrey Epstein. So these documents that have just been released include references to President Trump quite a few of them both before he took office and during his first term. Domenico, how is Trump's base reaction reacting to what's come out?

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, I think that they've been kind of on their back foot on a lot of this, Republicans in general. And I think that his base has wanted to see the release of these files. And a lot of that was because Trump himself campaigned on saying that he was gonna release these files because there is this one sect of the Republican base that believes that there's this cabal of pedophiles that are high up in the federal government. And any day that Trump is having to talk about Epstein and his relationship with Epstein is not a great one for him. And his base, I think, in a lot of respects, is confused on how to react to him. Some people want these files completely released. Other people are going along with what Trump is saying and saying that this is a Democratic hoax.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, and what you're talking about There is the QAnon conspiracy theory, which is this idea that moneyed elites run the government and business, and there's secretly a cabal of pedophiles. And then here's convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who is associating with people in positions of power. And many in the MAGA base say these files are a hoax. Just help us make sense of this apparent disconnect.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, President Trump says these files are a hoax, but what he means by it being a hoax is not that they aren't real, but that Democrats are trying to draw attention to this to hurt him. And I think that he is working very hard to convince his base that that is the case. You know, the problem is, it's not just President Trump. His FBI director and deputy FBI director, when they were out in the influencer world and hosting podcasts, they talked about the Epstein files all the time. And now that they are in a place of power, the reluctance to release them, that could well include a lot of perfectly reasonable reasons, like protecting the victims or protecting the process. That is normally part of how the justice system works. They're getting a lot of pushback on that.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And look, Trump will never be on the ballot again. He's constitutionally barred from running in 2028. So this isn't necessarily about electoral politics when it comes to Trump himself, but his party is certainly on its back foot in thinking about this and talking about this. And this is something that politically Trump wants to go away, but that drip, drip, drip certainly makes it really hard to do that.

[Sarah McCammon]

I mean, is there a tipping point here, though?

[Domenico Montanaro]

We've talked about a lot of times how Trump has a high floor and a low ceiling when it comes to his approval ratings. And this is something that Democrats are happy to continue to try to pressure him on. And it certainly puts him on the defensive. And if that keeps him talking about this and his approval ratings in the mid to high 30% range, Democrats will take that as a win.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, I mean, he does not want to have to deal with this. And just as a piece of evidence to back that up, President Trump typically, almost every day of the week takes questions from the press multiple times. He has not taken questions from the press since this latest tranche of documents came out. There've been multiple opportunities. Didn't happen. There was a White House press briefing on Wednesday. It was extremely short, and a lot of the questions were about Epstein. Trump now is doing that thing that he does where he spins his wheels and puts out a lot of messages on social media about it. But this is clearly a thing that he would like to just go away. He has said as much going back to July, and he just hasn't been able to make it go away, in part because a lot of Republicans, including in Congress, feel like they owe it to their voters to get these answers. And as a reminder, there are victims. There are victims of Jeffrey Epstein. He was a convicted sex offender. There are people whose lives have forever been changed, but by what happened to them, related to Jeffrey Epstein. And so a lot of people are framing this not necessarily about Trump, but about justice for the victims.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And there are a few things that seem to make Trump as visibly irritated as this issue does. So many other things. He seems to have a certain kind of alacrity in trying to change the subject on and trying to sort of finesse his way about this one. He seems much more visibly irritated about. And there aren't, like I said, that many things that seem to get under his skin the way the Epstein story does.

[Sarah McCammon]

Now, all of this comes as the White House faces another separate challenge, and that is the economy. Tam, you've been reporting on this this week. Prices, as we know, are stubbornly high. Inflation hasn't gone away. The labor market is weak, consumer confidence is low, and yet the president continues to say that the economy is good. Tam, what is behind that cognitive dissonance?

[Tamara Keith]

There are a lot of things going on. Part of it is that Trump is out there trying to claim credit for areas where prices have gone down. Things like egg prices. He says gas prices are way down. In reality, they're about the same as they were A year ago, maybe a couple cents higher depending on the day. He has sort of a different conception of the economy than a lot of regular people do. Right. He is extremely focused on the stock market. Almost every day he talks about how well the stock market is doing, except yesterday, cuz it did not do so well yesterday. But he talks about record setting, record setting. Everything's a record setting. 401ks are super hot, which is great.

[Sarah McCammon]

For people who have a 401K.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, that leaves out about 40% of Americans. And for people who are living paycheck to paycheck, hearing that everything is awesome is not helpful. So a White House official not authorized to speak on the record told me that the President is going to change the way he talks about the economy. This person said that the President is going to talk about the winds, but he's also going to talk about how much more work needs to be done to make sure that people who are feeling economic pain get the relief that they need. And that sort of sensitive messaging is just not the way President Trump normally talks. And so the very same day that this White House official told me this, President Trump again started boasting about the economy. My administration and our partners in Congress.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Will continue our work to lower the cost of living, restore public safety, grow our economy, and make America affordable again for all Americans. Again, costs are way down.

[Tamara Keith]

That was actually him delivering the new message and immediately turned to say, costs are way down, everything's cheaper. I don't know what people are talking about. He calls it a hoax, the affordability hoax. In fact, in a social media post today, he said cost and inflation were far higher under sleepy Joe Biden's administration than they are now. In fact, costs under the Trump administration are tumbling down, helped greatly by gasoline and energy. Affordability is a lie when used by the Dems. It is a complete con job.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, I mean, the President and his cabinet can say whatever they want about this, but is there a tipping point here? If Trump's base sees the cost of everything going up or so many things and he says it's not happening, is there a point where they start to.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, I don't know if it hurts him politically, quote, unquote with his base, but I think that people know what they pay at the grocery store. And, you know, no matter what President Trump wants to say, quote, costs are way down. You know, it's one thing to sort of message around, you know, some highfalutin idea that's really hard to prove when it comes to science. And research. And one study says something that another study might not. And people don't have to dive into all of that research to try to understand that. Look, people get to go to the grocery store. They get to see what it is that they pay. They get to know whether or not they can afford Christmas presents for their family or if it seems like it's a lot harder to do so. They know whether or not they can go and afford a house based on the market that they live in. They know what interest rates look like. It's not something that Trump can just power of positive thinking his way through here to be able to say, I say it is, therefore it is. You know, people know what their costs actually are. And it's hard to message on affordability when people feel like it's harder for them to afford things. And if this sounds like a conversation we could have had in 2022 and 2023 about President Biden, you're not nuts. I mean, it's something that we certainly heard the Biden administration irritated about how they saw a stronger economy that was seeing GDP growth and recovering after the pandemic, try to attack this idea of affordability by also saying, you know, the economy is actually strong. And that wasn't something that resonated with voters. And now Trump is stuck in this vice as well.

[Tamara Keith]

Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican from Georgia, suddenly finding herself publicly disagreeing with President Trump on a semi regular basis. It's a point she made on the Sean Spicer show earlier this week.

[Sarah McCammon]

Gaslighting the people and trying to tell them that prices have, have come down is not helping. It's actually, it's actually infuriating people because people know what they're paying at the grocery store. They know what they're paying for their.

[Tamara Keith]

Kids clothes and school supplies.

[Sarah McCammon]

They know what they're paying for their electricity bills. So, Tam, this issue does not seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. What is the White House trying to do to address affordability?

[Tamara Keith]

Well, last weekend and into early this week, President Trump started talking about a 50 year mortgage, which would bring down the individual mortgage payments by a few hundred dollars. But then people did the math and discovered that it would dramatically increase the amount of money that people were paying on interest and would mean that people had less equity in their homes. In fact, there was a lot of MAGA pushback on that idea because they were saying like, hey, this would just help the banks. Another thing that the White House is doing is rushing to reverse some of the president's tariffs and We've talked a lot on this podcast about how much President Trump loves tariffs as a tool and believes that they solve all kinds of problems. Now, administration officials, including the Treasury Secretary and the US Trade Representative, are talking about rolling back tariffs on key products that can't be grown in the US like bananas, coffee, cocoa, vanilla beans, things where prices have really gone up because of the tariffs and where there is no great US Alternative. And they are rushing to get those out possibly as soon as today. It's not clear how quickly that would actually work its way through the economy, but it is a signal, a pretty strong signal, that the White House realizes there's an affordability problem and they are attempting to take actions to improve it.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, Trump starts out behind the eight ball on affordability, not just because he's a rich guy surrounded by billionaires who say things like the American dream is not the right to buy cheap stuff, as his Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant said at one point, but because he has actively said he doesn't think costs are the most important thing. He talked about immigration being much more important and has said so on multiple occasions at the beginning of his second term here. And as Tam points out, he's actively made things more expensive with his tariffs.

[Sarah McCammon]

We know that costs are important to voters, though. Voters really seem to indicate that in last week's elections, Democrats did very well, largely based on economic messaging. How much could Democrats continue to capitalize on this economic message in the midterms, and what might it sound like going forward?

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, they're going to do their best to keep capitalizing on it because it is something that they agree on. They are trying out a bunch of different messages. Those elections a couple of weeks ago were a sort of a test case for some of the messaging. Democrats are in particular focused on health care costs, which was a big theme of the government shutdown. And now Republicans are talking about it, too, and trying to come up with a plan, which they haven't been able to come up with in, like, eight years, to replace the Affordable Care act grocery costs. Democrats are also very focused on energy costs. You heard Marjorie Taylor Greene talk about power bills. Power bills have gone up. Electric bills, gas bills. Democrats are trying to hang that on President Trump by saying that his opposition to green energy is actively working to make things more expensive for people.

[Domenico Montanaro]

They're going to ride this message all the way to November. If costs and affordability are still something that is front of mind for a lot of people, then the party in charge, and that's the Republicans, right? Now are going to get the majority of the blame on it, most likely. That's what Democrats are certainly banking on. It certainly would help them in these off year elections. I think you can be guaranteed that affordability and, and health care, by the way, which is an issue that Democrats helped elevate during the shutdown, are going to be two things that they certainly ride all the way to November.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, one more break and then it's time for Can't Let It Go.

[Tamara Keith]

Mothers and Daughters, Daughters and Mothers.

[Stephen Bowler]

We explore the generational divide on our latest episode of Books We've Loved about Amy Tan's the Joy Luck Club with.

[Tamara Keith]

The indicators Whale and Wong.

[Stephen Bowler]

Find books we've loved on NPR's Book.

[Tamara Keith]

Of the Day podcast feed or on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stephen Bowler]

This week on Bullseye, we're revisiting the show as it was a quarter century ago. This program is the sound of Young America. As always, I'm your host, Jesse, America's radio sweetheart, Thorne. I'll be joined by my then co hosts Jordan Morris and Gene o' Neill on a very special Bullseye. Find us in the NP NPR app, maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Making time for the news is important, but when you need a break, we've got you covered on All Songs Considered, NPR's music podcast. Think of it like a music discovery show, a well deserved escape with friends and yeah, some serious music insight.

[Stephen Bowler]

I'm Keep it real. I have no idea what the story is about.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hear new episodes of All Songs Considered every Tuesday. Wherever you get podcasts you care about what's happening in the world, stay informed with NPR's State of the World podcast. In just a few minutes, we take you to stories around the globe. You might hear the latest developments in world conflicts or about what global events mean for the price of your coffee, listen to the State of the World podcast from npr.

[Sarah McCammon]

And we're back. And it's time for Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And I'm gonna start with mine. What I can't let go of is the fact that the US Minted the very last US Penny this week in Philadelphia. Did you guys hear this?

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, I did.

[Sarah McCammon]

And as you may know, this is a big deal for me personally in my home because.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, really?

[Sarah McCammon]

Oh, yes. So my spouse is a longtime lawyer for the US Mint and at basically every party we go to. For years he has been asked by someone who knows what he does, when are you gonna get rid of the penny? Because everybody knows, right, that the penny costs more to make than it's actually worth. And that's been a point of contention for a really long time. But every single, I kid you not, dinner party, holiday party, I have to sit through this conversation.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Do they start with penny for your thoughts?

[Sarah McCammon]

Oh, God, they might as well. And to any friends who are listening, I love you, but I have heard this conversation about the economics of the penny for so long and the penny's done. And I think I'm done with that conversation.

[Tamara Keith]

The problem though is how do you make change now?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, this is by not being on Twitter. You have to be an actual, you know, you have to knock on doors. Oh, different change, sorry.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, punny, punny, punny.

[Sarah McCammon]

I should say. Pennies still exist, they are still valid currency. They are not being taken out of circulation. And of course, so many things are now online and digital that people carry less and less cash and fewer and fewer coins. So it's less and less part of our day to day life. I think that's the thinking anyway. Tam, how about you? What can't you let go?

[Tamara Keith]

What I can't let go of is the northern lights. I was in bed earlier this week and all of a sudden I started seeing all of these amazing pictures of the northern lights. And there were some pictures that were posted from the Washington D.C. area. And so I got out of bed and I got my 13 year old son out of bed.

[Sarah McCammon]

That's impressive.

[Tamara Keith]

I know. I was like, there's northern lights, we're going to go find them. And we got in the car and we drove towards the country. We drove until we could get to an area where there was less light pollution and we didn't see the northern lights.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Was it cloudy?

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, the clouds had come in and it was like really devastating. And then I was like, oh my God, I've kept you up so long and it is so late and I am so tired.

[Sarah McCammon]

I'm really sorry for you, Tam, but full transparency. I feel a little better because I saw those same pictures in bed and I did not get up, but I think I saw them the next morning and it was probably too late, but still.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, no, I have, I just like have so much northern lights fomo. You have no idea. And I'm gonna be chasing this for the rest of my life, I'm afraid.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right, Domenico, how about you?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Oh, what? I can't let Go of is something that sounds like one of my worst nightmares. Riding a bicycle, popping a wheelie and doing it for six and a half hours, which is what a college student in France did. Setting a world record for get this greatest distance covered while performing.

[Sarah McCammon]

A wheelie.

[Domenico Montanaro]

A wheelie. Hold on, I give it my own handwriting. For get this greatest distance covered while performing a continuous bicycle wheelie. And that is a Guinness Book of World Record now given to 19 year old engineering student. Seems like an engineering student might be someone who could pull this off. And by the way, key word here, 19.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, it seems like a thing for a 19 year old student.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah.

[Tamara Keith]

I hope he was wearing padded shorts.

[Sarah McCammon]

Seriously.

[Domenico Montanaro]

So when asked.

[Tamara Keith]

Okay, good. We all had the same question.

[Domenico Montanaro]

When he was asked. He said, mentally, he remained calm physically, as the Wall Street Journal puts it, encountered a few problems. His arms and hands did fine. His legs held up too. The main pain was in my bleep. There you go.

[Sarah McCammon]

We can fill in the blanks.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah. And can you imagine trying to do that over 40? I don't think so.

[Sarah McCammon]

No, thanks.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I thank you.

[Sarah McCammon]

I would injure myself in six minutes, let alone six hours, probably six seconds.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Six hours 93 miles. Six and a half hours of a wheelie around a track.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I'm not sure the Guinness Book of World Records means anything.

[Sarah McCammon]

It does to him.

[Tamara Keith]

My kids have the book. They get the book like every few years. And I think people want to have notoriety.

[Sarah McCammon]

I think you're right.

[Tamara Keith]

Not everyone can be in the Olympics, but one person can pop a wheelie for multiple hours.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah. In fact, I mean, if you think about it as the Journal talked about, you know, you've had 12 people walk on the moon. 230 people have won the Nobel Prize in physics. One person did it twice. Only one person has popped a wheelie for six and a half consecutive hours. It's an achievement considering Tam's quest of the aurora borealis. I wonder if she's contemplating doing something like this now.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, no, but I did once meet a pig that was in the Guinness Book of World Records.

[Sarah McCammon]

For what?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Really?

[Sarah McCammon]

What did it do?

[Tamara Keith]

I think it was singing or dancing. Maybe it was dancing, I don't remember, but it's in the book.

[Sarah McCammon]

As today's host, I think we need to leave it right here. Okay, that is all for today. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Our producers are Kacey Morell and Bria Suggs. Our our editor is Rachel Bay. Special thanks to Christian Dev Kalamer and Kelsey Snell. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast. How does a pig sing? I wanted to know, but I was like, I need to stop right now.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Wee, wee, wee, all the way home.

[Sarah McCammon]

Oh my gosh.

[Tamara Keith]

Keeping up with the news can feel like a 24 hour job. Luckily, it is our job. Every hour on the NPR News now podcast, we take the latest, most important stories happening and we package them into five minute episodes so you can easily squeeze them in between meetings and on your way to that thing. Listen to the NPR News now podcast now. Latin music has never been bigger, but it's always been big on all Latino. Fifteen years in, we continue celebrating Latinidad through a music lens, transcending borders through Ritmo. Get to know artists from La Cultura on a deeper level and throw some new Latin music recs into your rotation. Listen to Alt Latino in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.