How An American Pope May Influence American Politics

Summary

Summary of "How An American Pope May Influence American Politics"

Podcast: The NPR Politics Podcast
Hosts: Sarah McCammon and Domenico Montanaro
Guest: Jason DeRose, NPR’s Religion Correspondent
Release Date: May 13, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Sarah McCammon and Domenico Montanaro engage in a comprehensive discussion with NPR’s religion correspondent, Jason DeRose, about the election of the first American pope, Pope Leo XIV, and its potential ramifications on American politics. The conversation delves into Pope Leo’s background, his theological and political stances, and the interplay between the Catholic Church's teachings and the political inclinations of American Catholics.

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2. Election of Pope Leo XIV

The episode begins by setting the stage for the historic election of Pope Leo XIV, formerly Robert Prevost from Chicago, who served in Peru before his ascension to the papacy.

Sarah McCammon introduces the topic:

“Cardinals in the Catholic Church elected the former Robert Prevost as pope last week. He's now Pope Leo XIV. He's originally from Chicago, but spent several years in ministry in Peru as well.” (02:01)

Jason DeRose adds context about the conclave process:

“In the days leading up to the conclave itself, they were meeting in these things called congregations, where they would get together and talk about all the sorts of issues facing the church.” (03:05)

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3. Pope Leo XIV's Views and Public Statements

Jason DeRose provides insights into Pope Leo's public persona, particularly his social media presence.

“He's very Catholic in his tweeting. He retweets the Vatican quite often... especially retweeted things that were critical of Donald Trump, retweeted criticism of migration and immigration policies...” (02:01)

This indicates Pope Leo's alignment with certain social and political issues, reflecting a continuation of Pope Francis’s emphasis on social justice.

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4. Impact on American Catholic Voters

The hosts and DeRose explore how the American Catholic demographic may respond to Pope Leo’s papacy, especially considering their voting behaviors.

Domenico Montanaro observes:

“American Catholics tend to vote their politics, not really their religion. And I think that's true with a lot of people.” (04:13)

Jason DeRose highlights the divergence between official church teachings and the beliefs of lay Catholics:

“According to Pew Research, 60% of Catholic voters favor abortion rights in all or most cases, 70% of Catholics believe that same sex marriage should be legal.” (05:14)

This disconnect suggests that while the pope holds significant influence, American Catholics may continue to prioritize broader political affiliations over explicit religious directives.

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5. Relationship with American Political Figures

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the dynamic between Pope Leo XIV and prominent American politicians, particularly former President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance.

Sarah McCammon raises a pertinent point:

“Pope Leo, before he was pope, retweeted some criticism of Vice President J.D. Vance, who himself is a convert to Catholicism.” (10:57)

Jason DeRose speculates on potential interactions:

“I will be very interested to see if Pope Leo specifically takes him to task by name or by issue the same way that Pope Francis did.” (11:18)

This highlights the possibility of the papacy exerting direct influence or critique on American political figures, which could have broader implications for political discourse within Catholic communities.

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6. Catholic Church's Stance on the New Pope

The episode delves into how Catholic leaders are positioning Pope Leo XIV, especially emphasizing his global perspective over his American origins.

Jason DeRose explains:

“They referred to him as a citizen of the world... and that makes him more cosmopolitan than someone who, say, was born and raised and lived his whole life on the south side of Chicago.” (12:39)

This portrayal aims to present Pope Leo as a universal leader, potentially mitigating any perceptions of American bias or partisanship.

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7. Potential Political Influence

The conversation addresses the broader implications of having an American pope in the current political climate, especially during the Trump administration.

Domenico Montanaro contrasts papal influence with presidential power:

“Trump has the bully pulpit, the American presidency... but the pope has the highest holy pulpit of anybody on earth.” (10:23)

Jason DeRose underscores the divergent stances between Pope Leo and Trump:

“Donald Trump and Pope Leo XIV are not aligned on many issues, including migrants and refugees, workers rights, the environment.” (14:34)

The hosts suggest that Pope Leo’s global platform could serve as a counterbalance to Trump’s influence, especially on issues where their views diverge.

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8. Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the episode wraps up, the hosts and DeRose reflect on the historical significance of Pope Leo XIV's election and anticipate his future initiatives.

Jason DeRose speculates on potential future directions:

“Given some of his early statements so far, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new On New Things coming up, perhaps focusing on things like technology, specifically artificial intelligence...” (07:45)

The discussion concludes with an acknowledgment of the complex interplay between religion and politics, and how Pope Leo XIV may navigate these waters to influence both the Catholic Church and American political landscapes.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason DeRose on Pope Leo’s social media approach:

  “He's very Catholic in his tweeting. He retweets the Vatican quite often... especially retweeted things that were critical of Donald Trump...” (02:01)

• Domenico Montanaro on American Catholic voting behavior:

  “American Catholics tend to vote their politics, not really their religion.” (04:13)

• Jason DeRose on the disconnect between church teachings and lay beliefs:

  “There’s a disconnect between what the Church technically teaches or officially teaches and what actual Catholics believe about political issues.” (05:50)

• Sarah McCammon on Pope Leo’s American identity:

  “But he is an American at a moment when the American president is, I think it's safe to say, a controversial one.” (14:20)

• Domenico Montanaro on the symbolic power of the pope:

  “The pope has the highest holy pulpit of anybody on earth.” (10:23)

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced exploration of the potential political influence wielded by Pope Leo XIV as the first American pope. Through insightful dialogue, the hosts and Jason DeRose shed light on the delicate balance between religious authority and political dynamics, particularly within the context of American Catholicism. As Pope Leo XIV settles into his role, his actions and statements will be pivotal in shaping both the Catholic Church's direction and its intersection with American politics.

Transcript

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Tariffs, recessions, how Colombian drug cartels gave us blueberries all year long. That's the kind of thing the Planet Money podcast explains. I'm Sarah Gonzalez. And on Planet Money, we help you understand the economy and how things all around you came to be the way they are. Para que sepas. So, you know, listen to the Planet Money podcast from npr. Hi, this is Rob Strontz from Davis, California. And I'm checking in from Houston, Texas.

[Domenico Montanaro]

At the 2025 FIRST Robotics World Championship.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

With my daughter's team, 1678 the Citrus Circuits. This podcast was recorded at 1:05pm Eastern Time on Tuesday, May 13, 2025.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Things may have changed when you hear.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

This, but we're hoping we'll be celebrating.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Our 10th consecutive year appearing at the finals. Enjoy the show and go Citrus.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Go Citrus. Sounds like a smart girl.

[Domenico Montanaro]

That sounds super intense.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Hey, there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And NPR's religion correspondent Jason DeRose is with us from Rome. Hey, Jason.

[Jason DeRose]

Hello.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Thank you for being here. Thanks for all of your reporting. You're here because we want to talk about the American pope, what an American pope could mean for American politics. As we know, cardinals in the Catholic Church elected the former Robert Prevost as pope last week. He's now Pope Leo xiv. He's originally from Chicago, but spent several years in ministry in Peru as well. And, Jason, I just want to start with what we know about the new pope's views. As you know, the late Pope Francis had a history of speaking out about world issues, occasionally making statements that seemed pointed at American politicians, including Donald Trump. But what do we know about where Pope Leo might stand?

[Jason DeRose]

Well, I have read through many, many of Pope Leo's tweets. I have to say, he's very Catholic in his tweeting. He retweets the Vatican quite often. Retweets. The Vatican website, retweeted Pope Francis Twitter account and also especially retweeted things that were critical of Donald Trump, retweeted criticism of migration and immigration policies and retweeted criticism of JD Vance when he said that people should care about their families, families and their own country first and then others. He retweeted criticism of those remarks.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Yeah. And it's I think that second part we're most interested in today, you know, when we talk about American politics. So whoever the pope is, of course, he has a massive platform worldwide and he can use it to advance a political message, if he chooses, a religious message or otherwise. And in talking to folks in and around the church while in Rome, were Cardinal Prevost views outside of his faith a factor in his election? What did you hear, Jason?

[Jason DeRose]

Well, you know, I talked to or the whole team here talked to a number of cardinals, and they said that, you know, those played in a little bit. They were quite often trying to say, you know, we're praying, we're interested in the input of the Holy Spirit or the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But in the days leading up to the conclave itself, they were meeting in these things called congregations, where they would get together and talk about all the sorts of issues facing the church. And so they talked about things like migration and sex abuse and many other, many other topics, the environment, church finances. And so they were thinking about which of these candidates could take the church in the direction they were hoping the church would go. So I don't know that any one issue was on any one of their minds, but all of these issues were sort of the constellation in their minds as they were thinking of who would make the best person.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Which, Domenico, brings me to the question, how much are American Catholics thinking about these things and how much are they taking cues from the pope or the Catholic Church in shaping their own politics and their voting habits?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I'd say American Catholics obviously paid very close attention to the fact that there's an American pope. But American Catholics tend to vote their politics, not really their religion. And I think that's true with a lot of people. You have a lot of people who are culturally Catholic, grew up in Catholic households, but might not necessarily ascribe to all views of Catholicism. And, you know, Catholic teaching doesn't exactly fit American politics very easily. I mean, it's conservative when it comes to things like abortion rights, LGBTQ rights, women in leadership, for example, but much more liberal when it comes to things like being pro immigrant, the need for climate action, being against the death penalty in this point, you know, supporting Ukraine and the desire for press freedom as Pope. Leo talked about this week as well. So it doesn't cross very easily. Trump won the Catholic vote this past election. They generally tend to go with the winner because it tends to be how people vote on their political lines.

[Jason DeRose]

You know, Sarah, one thing to keep in mind, and I think this is really important, is that Catholic people in the pews or people who identify as Catholic do not align with their own church on a lot of beliefs. For instance, according to Pew Research, 60% of Catholic voters favor abortion rights in all or most cases, 70% of Catholics believe that same sex marriage should be legal. Nobody in church hierarchy is saying that, but that is what Catholics in the pews believe. So there's a disconnect between what the Church technically teaches or officially teaches and what actual Catholics believe about political issues.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Although to Domenico's point, they may be thinking about a whole spectrum of issues. Right. And those issues, you know, when you line up Catholic doctrine with political parties, you know, you're talking about two very different things. And they don't line up.

[Jason DeRose]

They don't. In fact, I'm thinking about, you know, in the lead up to the election Last fall, the U.S. conference of Catholic Bishops talked quite a bit about abortion being a paramount issue. But in fact, Pope Francis going into that election said actually the plight of migrants and abortion should both be held together when thinking about voting. And he said that for American Catholics, they had to choose the lesser of two evils.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, I mean, this really has to do with emphasis. And I think that's why it was so eyebrow raising when, you know, then Jorge Bergoglio as cardinal, chose the name Francis to be Pope because it represented something that was very clear to Catholics that he was going to be focused on the poor and a degree of humility. And, you know, Pope Leo now saying that he's going to be in the vein of Pope Francis, you know, for the most part, when you think about his immigration views, in particular, his views on climate action and all the rest, you know, that kind of thing is really where the emphasis and sort of how, you know, either American politicians are treated, how people within the Church who follow the church are play out their politics. I think about someone like John Kerry or former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi or former President Biden having been denied Eucharist previously by cardinals or bishops because of their views on abortion rights, as Jason's talking about that having been paramount at one point. And now you have these most recent two popes saying maybe the emphasis should be on social justice a little bit more.

[Jason DeRose]

You know, even when you think about the name that Leo chose, Leo xiv, the current Pope says that he was thinking about Leo xiii, who wrote this famous encyclical called Rerum Novarum of New Things, which really was a social justice document that looked at things like workers rights and the dignity of workers and economic justice issues. In fact, given some of his early statements so far, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new On New Things coming up, perhaps focusing on things like technology, specifically artificial intelligence and this phrase that I kept hearing from cardinals in the run up to the conclave how to do missionary work on the digital continent in the same way that they did missionary work on other continents like the Americas or Africa or Asia.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

All right. It's time for a quick break. We'll have more in just a moment. This message comes from Sattva. Spring cleaning can be good for your home and your mind. It can boost your mood, sharpen your focus and fuel productivity. Another way to do all that sleeping well, voted best luxury mattress by sleepfoundation.org, every Saatva is handcrafted for a great night's sleep. And they cost far less than retail. This Memorial Day saves $600 on $1,000 or more at saatva.com NPR you may have heard that President Trump has issued an executive order seeking to block all federal funding to npr. This is the latest in a series of threats to media organizations across the country. Millions of people depend on the NPR network now more than ever. We're depending on you. Please donate today. Visit donate.NPR.org on the Indicator from Planet Money podcast.

[Domenico Montanaro]

We're here to help you make sense of the economic news from Trump. Tariffs, it's called in game theory, a.

[Jason DeRose]

Trigger strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which sort of has a cowboy esque.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Ring to it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is. For insight every weekday, listen to NPR's the Indicator from Planet Money.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And we're back. So we've said that American Catholics don't really vote as Catholics per se, or their votes tend to tend to sort of map the larger American patterns as a whole, as opposed to a unified Catholic vote. But this isn't just any pope. Pope Leo is, as we've said, an American pope, the first American pope from North America, from the U.S. how is that reality likely to shape American politics?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, there's the bully pulpit and there's the holy pulpit, and Trump has the bully pulpit, the American presidency. And he has the, you know, the foremost, largest megaphone of anyone in the world, arguably as as a political leader, but as a religious leader. The pope certainly has the highest holy pulpit of anybody on earth. And that's really interesting given that now we have two American in both of those positions to Americans who believe very differently about a lot of cultural issues.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

The other thing that's interesting about this, you know, as we said earlier, this new pope, Pope Leo, before he was pope, retweeted some criticism of Vice President J.D. vance, who himself is a convert to Catholicism. I'm just curious what you both will be watching in terms of, you know, J.D. vance's relationship to the Catholic Church at this moment.

[Jason DeRose]

I will be very interested to see if Pope Leo specifically takes him to task by name or by issue the same way that Pope Francis did. I will be especially interested to see how JD Vance responds if he does. I watched a speech that he gave shortly after Pope Francis took him to task with that letter, although it didn't take him to task by name, but corrected his thinking about something called the Ordo Amoris or the Order of Loves. And he said, well, you know, we can disagree. And I think that's a really interesting thing to hear, you know, a politician say, especially when, like, actually the Pope is right on this would be, I think, a go to move for many Catholics, you know, instead of J.D. vance trying to sort of explain away a major difference. So I'll be interested to see how Vance responds when and if, if he's specifically criticized by this pope.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

You know, we've been talking a lot about American Catholic voters and how they might be affected by all of this and, of course, President Trump and Vice President Vance. But what is the Catholic Church saying about it? I mean, Jason, what are you hearing from Catholic leaders about this pope at this moment, particularly coming from the United States of America, which is, you know, I think, still the most powerful country in the world?

[Jason DeRose]

We heard from a number of US Cardinals last week who got together to talk about this historic election of a U.S. pope. One of the things they did was downplay the Americanism of Pope Leo. They referred to him as a citizen of the world. They focused on the fact that he spent a lot of time in Peru and a lot of time in Italy and at the Vatican, and that that makes him more cosmopolitan than someone who, say, was born and raised and lived his whole life on the south side of Chicago. He was born and raised there, but he did not live his whole, his whole life there. And of course, on the spiritual end, you know, the American cardinals were not talking about him as an American citizen, but a citizen of the world and a citizen of heaven.

[Domenico Montanaro]

The thing I'm curious about, Jason, and you being there and covering this is, you know, we heard one scholar on Morning Edition saying that he thought that it was impossible, it had been thought that an American would be chosen as pope, but that the Trump effect around the world in these first few months of the Trump presidency sort of made the impossible possible. And I wonder what you think if that is too much politics or if there's some truth to that?

[Jason DeRose]

Well, I don't know that they went in thinking we need someone to counterbalance the president of the United States. But the issues that they were thinking about were issues of migration and economic justice and things like that. And so if you are thinking about that, you might be thinking about someone who can counterbalance the president of the United States. But I don't think they were going in saying we need an American. I think they found an American who spoke to them on the issues that they cared about.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

But nonetheless, he is an American at a moment when the American president is, I think it's safe to say, a controversial one. I mean, how do you see this playing out in the years to come, especially during the Trump administration?

[Jason DeRose]

Well, I would say that Donald Trump and Pope Leo XIV are not aligned on many issues, including migrants and refugees, workers rights, the environment. And, you know, a week ago, Donald Trump was the most famous and arguably the most powerful American. But now there is someone else, someone in Pope Leo XIV who is at least as well known and arguably as powerful as the leader of 1.4 billion Catholics and someone who can really draw the world's attention beyond that 1.4 billion to the issues he cares about.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

Okay, we're going to leave it there for today. NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, thank you for your reporting and have a good trip home.

[Jason DeRose]

Thank you. And you're welcome.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah Gonzalez]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast. A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story, but right now you probably need more on up first from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under 15 minutes because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the upverse podcast from npr. I'm Tanya Moseley, co host of Fresh air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and WHYY.

[Domenico Montanaro]

When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging and evangelicalism, time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from npr.