How Trump's Executive Actions Are Impacting Federal Workers

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast: "How Trump's Executive Actions Are Impacting Federal Workers"
Release Date: January 24, 2025

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Sarah McCammon and Frank Ordonez delve into the significant executive actions taken by President Donald Trump and their profound effects on both immigration policy and the federal workforce. Joined by NPR’s immigration correspondent Joel Rose and labor expert Ashley Lopez, the discussion provides a comprehensive analysis of the administration's strategies, their implications, and the broader cultural and political ramifications.

---

I. Executive Actions on Immigration

A. Overview of Trump’s Immigration Policies

The episode begins with Joel Rose outlining the Trump administration's swift changes to immigration policy, marking a stark departure from the previous Biden administration's approach.

• Cutting Asylum Pathways: Joel explains, “President Trump has cut off access to the CBP1 app that migrants used to schedule asylum appointments, effectively ending the last legal pathway to seek asylum at the border” (00:56).

• Challenges to Legal Entry: Additional legal avenues for migrants to enter the U.S. have been terminated, signaling a move towards stricter enforcement.

B. Messaging vs. Substantive Policy Changes

Frank Ordonez raises a critical question about the nature of these executive actions, questioning whether they serve more as political messaging rather than substantial policy shifts.

• Trump’s Desire for Victories: Frank states, “Trump is looking for Victories. He wants to be seen as strong in his first week in office, especially on his signature issue” (02:22).

• Extension of Biden’s Policies?: Joel concurs, noting that much of what ICE is doing under Trump is an extension of existing Biden-era practices, albeit with a different public emphasis.

C. Practical Limitations on Enforcement

Joel Rose provides insight into the practical limitations that hinder the administration’s ability to achieve mass deportations, as promised during Trump's campaign.

• Systemic Constraints: “There are inherent obstacles in the immigration system, like the limit on detention beds and the slow pace of immigration courts, that make mass deportation challenging” (03:08).

• ICE Operations Remain Consistent: Despite the rhetoric, the actual number of deportations hasn’t significantly increased, leading to questions about the feasibility of fulfilling Trump’s promises.

D. Impact on Immigrant Communities

The administration’s actions have fostered a climate of fear within immigrant communities, affecting their daily lives and interactions.

• Repeal of the Sensitive Locations Memo: Joel highlights, “Repealing the sensitive locations memo means ICE can now conduct raids at schools, churches, and hospitals, heightening fear and discomfort among immigrants” (04:00).

• Community Anxiety: Immigrant advocates report that fear is causing people to avoid public places and essential services, disrupting community cohesion.

E. Future Outlook and Potential Backlash

Looking ahead, the panel discusses the potential for increased enforcement actions and the possible societal backlash against aggressive immigration policies.

• 100-Day Assessment: Frank mentions, “In 100 days, we’ll need to evaluate how different the administration’s actions are compared to Biden’s and whether there’s a significant rise in enforcement” (06:12).

• Risk of Family Separations: There’s concern about a return to family separations, reminiscent of the previous administration’s zero-tolerance policy, and how the public and political landscape will react (07:07).

---

II. Impact of Executive Actions on the Federal Workforce

A. Termination of DEI Initiatives

The conversation shifts to Trump's executive order targeting Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs within the federal government, as reported by labor correspondent Ashley Lopez.

• OPM’s Directive: “Agencies were instructed to submit lists of all DEI offices and personnel by Thursday, with plans to lay off these positions by next Friday” (07:55).

• Immediate Job Cuts: Notices of job terminations are already being distributed, signaling the commencement of this significant shift (08:33).

B. Scope and Uncertainty of Impact

Ashley Lopez addresses the uncertainty surrounding the number of federal employees affected by the DEI cuts.

• Lack of Clear Numbers: “Nobody really knows how many people this order is going to target, but the former acting head of OPM suggested it could be a pretty sizable number” (08:45).

• Inclusion Beyond Current DEI Roles: The order affects not just those currently in DEI positions but also individuals who worked on DEI initiatives as recently as November 5th, adding to the complexity.

C. Legal and Procedural Roadblocks

The panel examines the challenges the Trump administration faces in executing these workforce changes, given the robust protections in place for federal employees.

• Reduction in Force Processes: Ashley explains, “Civil servants have a defined process for layoffs, and the administration must provide legitimate rationale for ending positions” (09:54).

• Probationary Employees: There may be a focus on removing recent hires who are still in their probationary periods and thus have fewer protections (10:31).

D. Motives Behind Targeting DEI

Frank Ordonez provides context on the administration’s motivations, linking it to broader cultural and political battles.

• Culture Wars: “Trump delved into the culture wars during his campaign, and DEI programs became a focal point for his supporters who opposed these initiatives” (10:39).

• Desire for Loyalty: The administration aims to replace the current federal workforce with individuals more aligned and loyal to Trump’s agenda, perceiving DEI efforts as contrary to their objectives (11:56).

E. Implications for Federal Operations

Ashley Lopez discusses the broader implications of ending DEI initiatives and the national hiring freeze announced by Trump.

• Telework and Hiring Freezes: The administration is pushing federal workers to return to offices, affecting over a million teleworking employees, and has implemented a national hiring freeze, causing uncertainty and potential operational disruptions (12:19, 13:24).

• Long-Term Effects: The inability to fill vacated positions could lead to significant gaps in federal services and administrative functions (13:31).

---

III. Conclusion

The episode concludes by highlighting the dual impact of Trump’s executive actions on both immigration policy and the federal workforce. While some measures appear to be more about messaging and creating a culture of fear, others reflect substantial policy shifts with long-term implications. The administration's aggressive stance on DEI initiatives and immigration underscores a broader strategy to reshape the federal landscape in alignment with its political and cultural objectives.

Notable Quotes:

• Joel Rose on asylum pathways: “Cuts off effectively the last legal pathway to seek asylum at the border” (00:56).

• Frank Ordonez on Trump’s messaging: “Trump is looking for Victories. He wants to be seen as strong” (02:22).

• Joel Rose on ICE operations: “It’s just a different message on what ICE essentially does all the time” (06:09).

• Ashley Lopez on DEI job impacts: “This is not just about people who are working on these issues currently, but who worked on these issues back on November 5th” (08:45).

• Frank Ordonez on culture wars: “Trump delved into the culture wars during his campaign” (10:39).

---

This episode provides listeners with an in-depth understanding of how presidential executive actions can reshape federal policies and workforce dynamics, reflecting the Trump administration's priorities and the challenges inherent in implementing such sweeping changes.

Transcript

[Christine]

Hi, this is Christine in Concord, California. After being laid off during the pandemic and writing far more cover letters than I prefer to think about, I'm about to walk in on the first day of my brand new job.

[Sarah McCammon]

This podcast was recorded at 12:07pm Eastern Time on Friday, January 24, 2025.

[Christine]

Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll finally be back to doing what I went to school for. Okay, here's the show.

[Sarah McCammon]

Congratulations and best of luck.

[Frank Ordonez]

Good luck, Christine.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Frank Ordonez]

I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Sarah McCammon]

Today on the show, we're going to look at two of the big ways that the new Trump administration is reshaping life and work in the U.S. nPR's Joel Rose covers immigration and is with us, too. Hey, Joel.

[Joel Rose]

Hey, Sarah.

[Sarah McCammon]

So if you would, let's start there with immigration. Just give us a quick reminder of the actions that President Trump has taken so far on immigration policy.

[Joel Rose]

Oh, how long do we have? There was quite a week in terms of executive actions, executive orders, and undoing a lot of things that the Biden administration had put in place, like a very sharp pivot away from Biden's immigration policies and trying to follow through on the immigration crackdown that President Trump campaigned and won on the most important things. I would start maybe with the border. I would say, you know, cutting off access to the CBP1 app that migrants had used to schedule appointments at ports of entry to begin the asylum process that ended on day one, which cuts off effectively the last legal pathway to seek asylum at the border. That's a big deal. Other sort of legal pathways for migrants to come in, those also ended right away. And some of the other things that the president laid out in those executive orders that he signed on the first day, I think they don't have instant impact. Most of them, I think they may lay out a blueprint for where he wants to go, how he wants to tighten enforcement down the road. But we haven't seen yet exactly how that's gonna play out.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Franco, Donald Trump, of course, campaigned on a promise of mass deportation. And last year, while running for president, we all remember he pressured Republican lawmakers in Congress to torpedo that bipartisan immigration deal. So it sort of raises the question how many of these actions that Joel just described are about messaging versus substantive policy change?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, I'd say messaging is probably the biggest part of this. I mean, Trump is looking for Victories. He wants to be seen as strong in his first week in office, and especially he wants to be seen strong on this issue, which is his signature issue. Of course, unlike Biden, Trump kind of wears this enforcement as kind of a badge of honor. It was kind of a tricky issue for Biden. The reality, though, is so much of what Trump is doing now is really basically an extension of what Biden has been doing. Joel was talking about the decreases in asylums. There's very little asylum coming in right now. The CBP app was basically the only way he did cut that off. So there is absolutely something, but it's not like there was a ton going on anyways.

[Joel Rose]

Yeah. And I'd like to just jump in and agree with you that the number of border crossings was low. Of course, it got enormous heights during the Biden administration to record levels. But in the last few months, it had decreased again to some of the lowest levels of border crossings we've seen in a long time. There are real obstacles to the sort of mass deportation that Trump promised that are just inherent in the immigration system. There's a limit on the number of detention beds that ICE has. There's a limit on how quickly they can move cases through immigration courts. And those realities are still there, and there are going to be real hurdles to delivering on that mass deportation promise. What has changed is the way that the administration is trumpeting the things that ICE is out there doing, making these detentions, making these arrests, flying deportation flights to get migrants back to their home countries. Those are things the immigration system was doing under the Biden administration.

[Andrea Hsu]

Yeah.

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, one of the few things that we all know that Trump was really, really, really good at was selling an idea, selling a message. He's a salesman, and I don't want to say it's all of what he's doing, because he is doing more than what Biden did. But it is about creating a culture and an atmosphere. But it's also creating a culture of fear where people do not want to come here illegally. And let's not dismiss that. The bully pulpit that the White House is.

[Sarah McCammon]

And it is big fear around coming illegally or staying right without documentation.

[Joel Rose]

Yeah. And fear is a big deal. I mean, immigrant advocates say that is a huge effect that we've already seen this week, that immigrant communities, people are afraid to go to restaurants. People are worried about sending their children to school. They're afraid about going to churches. I mean, one of the first things that Immigration and Customs Enforcement did this week was repeal this sort of sensitive locations Memo, they call it, which said that ICE was generally not going to conduct raids at schools, at churches, at hospitals, what they called sensitive, sensitive locations. That's been repealed. I don't think immigration lawyers think we're suddenly going to see a ton of high profile enforcement actions at those kinds of places. But it does create this atmosphere of fear and discomfort in immigrant communities that's instant and real.

[Sarah McCammon]

Now, Joel, you've said that so far this week. ICE continues to do things like raids, deportation, flights, things that are just kind of part of their regular job description, things they were already doing. And it's just been a few days. But how much do we know about how things might change going forward?

[Joel Rose]

You're right that it's just been a few days, right? I mean, as we speak right now, we have not seen enormous numbers of deportations in line with what it would take to remove the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country. I mean, so far, what we're seeing, according to the former ICE officials I've spoken to, looks like business as usual with a different sort of marketing spin. That is not to say that, like, there couldn't be huge raids or things we just don't know about while we're sitting here right now. But so far in week one, what we've seen is just a different message on what ICE essentially does all the time.

[Sarah McCammon]

And, Franco, what else will you be watching for from the White House on immigration?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, I think that's one big one. You know, let's look a few weeks from now, 100 days from now, what are the numbers? How different is it in reality to what the Biden administration was doing? Secondly, I also am gonna be looking about whether it leads to families being separated, how Trump handles that, and how America responds to that. I mean, there was a huge backlash during the last Trump administration when he implemented the zero tolerance policy, and it ended up leading to children being separated from their parents at the border. And Trump eventually kind of turned it around and stopped the policy. Now, I would say the environment seems a little bit different. Americans voted for Trump in office, with him campaigning on a very, very strong enforcement measure. Will this happen, and will they support him, or will there be the same kind of reaction?

[Sarah McCammon]

I'm curious about that, too. I mean, as you say, many Americans wanted a change to the immigration system. But if, as Joel just mentioned, if the Trump administration starts arresting people in churches, for example, as they've opened the door to potentially doing, will there be a backlash? How will communities respond? I think it's a big question. Well, Joel, thanks for being here. Thanks for bringing us your reporting.

[Frank Ordonez]

Thanks, Joel.

[Joel Rose]

You're welcome.

[Sarah McCammon]

When we come back, the president promised to reshape the federal workforce, and he is. And we're back with NPR labor correspondent Andrea Hsu. Hey, Andrea, thanks for being here.

[Ashley Lopez]

Hey, thanks for having me.

[Sarah McCammon]

So we have a podcast episode in this feed already about the executive action earlier this week to end federal diversity, Equity and inclusion, or DEI initiatives. But real quick, Andrea, what is the latest there?

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, so the Office of Personnel Management had given agencies until Thursday, yesterday to basically submit lists of all the offices that did DEI work and all the people who worked in them, not just now, but dating back to election day, so November 5th. And they have until next Friday to submit a plan for laying these people off. And so already I have been hearing people getting these notices saying, you know, your job, this office is closed, and even getting setting dates for when they will be laid off. So all this is unfolding. I don't think it's happened at every agency yet, but it is definitely underway.

[Sarah McCammon]

And just to put things in perspective, the federal workforce is significant. There are around 2.3 million civilian federal government employees. Do we have a sense of how many are affected by that directive?

[Ashley Lopez]

I've asked this question of many people, and people really don't know because, of course, there were people who had some diversity, equity, inclusion in their titles, especially under the Biden administration, which really promoted these programs. People were hired, but there were also a lot of people whose maybe part of their work was involved in DEI efforts or maybe they served on committees. Nobody really knew how many people this order was going to target. As I said, this is not just about people who are working on these issues currently, but who worked on these issues back on November 5th who were working on these issues back then. This is what we're really gonna see in the next, over the next week and longer. You know, how many people actually it is. But the former acting head of OPM told me it could be, you know, a pretty sizable, pretty large number of people.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Andrea, one question I have about this. Firing federal workers isn't that easy. I mean, this is something that many Republicans, conservatives have complained about for a long time. These workers have a lot of protections. There are a lot of rules in place around hiring and firing. What are the roadblocks to what the Trump administration is trying to do here?

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. So for civil servants, there is a whole process and there are processes in place for what they call reduction in force, which is layoffs in the federal government, I think that's another unknown. I think that we're really going to have to see what rationale the administration puts forward for ending these positions. I will say another thing that the Trump administration has done is asked agencies to provide a list of people who were hired in the last year. So they're still in a probationary period and they don't have some of those protections. And so that's one area where we, we might see a lot swifter movements around people who were hired more recently.

[Sarah McCammon]

Franco, you covered the Trump campaign. Just remind us what is behind President Trump's desire to get rid of these DEI positions.

[Frank Ordonez]

During the campaign, Trump really dove into the culture wars, and this was an area that his supporters really had issues with. They really wanted to fight. I mean, another issue just in kind of a broader aspect of federal workers, is Trump wants loyalty. He wants to replace the current establishment of federal workers with people who will be more loyal to him. He wants people who are gonna be willing to carry out his agenda. DEI workers, I would argue he perceives it more as a liberal, non conservative, not in tune with his agenda. And I will tell you, covering the first administration, the biggest mistake that they tell me they made was revolving around personnel and not having the right people for those jobs. There were too many establishment republic and not enough people. You know, whether it's MAGA or just kind of in tune with Trump himself. And we've seen this time with these executive orders that Trump is very clear point that he is going to push the boundaries of his presidential power, push the boundaries of the Constitution. And he wants people who are going to be willing to fight with him and find creative ways to do that.

[Ashley Lopez]

You know, Trump has used adjectives to describe DEI programs that we haven't seen so much in other contexts. I mean, he calls them dangerous, demeaning, immoral, illegal. And I think that this language is really intentional. And I think he wants to be fully out there. This is how I feel. And he wants to see who's willing to support his views on this and his plans for these programs.

[Sarah McCammon]

Andrea Franco just mentioned the fact that this isn't just about dei. Trump's executive actions have a lot of implications for federal workers, including the fact that he wants them back in their offices. I mean, how many are working remotely and what does this mean for them?

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, so about just over a million federal workers. Civilian federal workers have telework privileges. That's about under half of the whole civilian workforce. And about 200 something thousand are fully remote. The rest, you know, might split their time between home and the office. And these include people like, you know, people who work at the IRS who are in communities helping people file their taxes. They might be in in areas of the country that are not near an IRS office or a service center. So they might be working from home some of the time and working at, you know, schools or community centers part of the time. You know, the federal government is vast, has workers in all kinds of settings all across the country. So, you know, we are talking a sizable number of people who are teleworking, and many of them have had these telework privileges since before COVID One other.

[Sarah McCammon]

Thing this week, Andrea, the president announced a national hiring freeze for federal employees. What does that mean, you know, immediately.

[Ashley Lopez]

For some people who were in the hiring process and may have already made plans to move to take their new jobs. Like some of them are basically being told like this is on hold. It's throwing people into chaos. Another possible ramification is if a lot of people are let go because of the executive order ending DEI programs or they quit because they are remote workers and they can't move to be near an office. It's unclear when they those agencies would be able to fill those positions, if ever. So right now it's, you know, again, still to be seen what the impact of that's going to be.

[Sarah McCammon]

Andrea, thank you for bringing your reporting to the pod.

[Ashley Lopez]

Thank you.

[Sarah McCammon]

And Franco, we will bid you farewell, too. Thanks for being here, as always.

[Frank Ordonez]

Great to be here. Have a good weekend.

[Sarah McCammon]

One more break and then it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back. And before we dive into the highlight of our Fridays, just a quick message that we want to hear from you. Send in your timestamps like the ones you hear at the start of every episode and tell us what you're up to. Maybe you're cooking new recipes or doing something fun in winter weather or just hanging around the house, which is okay, too. Send us a voice memo to npr politicspr.org with your timestamp today. You might just hear it on an upcoming episode. And if you need inspiration, just listen to the ones from past episodes, maybe even this one to get you in the mood. And with that, it's time for Can't Let It Go. That, of course, is the part of the show where we talk about all the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. Our friends Ashley Lopez and Claudia Grosales are here with us. Hi there.

[Claudia Grisales]

Hey There.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey. Well, I'm gonna start today. What I can't let go of is the children of our new vice president. J.D. vance and his wife Usha have three young kids. And I think several of the images we saw of them from Inauguration Day were quite relatable for parents of all political persuasions or anyone who remembers what it was like to be a kid. Did you guys see these pictures?

[Claudia Grisales]

I missed that comment. Yeah, catch us up.

[Sarah McCammon]

So one of my favorites was the Vance's oldest son, I think he's about 7 years old, sort of playfully bopping each of his parents on the head.

[Claudia Grisales]

Oh, nice.

[Sarah McCammon]

During the celebration event. I know, right? They didn't look abused, but they just kind of brushed him off. And then at one point, the kid was sort of collapsed, his upper body down on the rail between his dad. President Trump just put his head down. I mean, we've all been a kid at some parent thing. Tired. Right. And just not into it.

[Claudia Grisales]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrea Hsu]

And I can only imagine how boring inauguration is for a little kid.

[Claudia Grisales]

Yes, exactly.

[Frank Ordonez]

Yeah.

[Andrea Hsu]

And this is fun, right? Like I have. I can't remember the last time we had little kids in the White House or even in the vp I guess since the Obamas.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, it's been a while.

[Andrea Hsu]

Yeah, it's been a while.

[Sarah McCammon]

And these are really little kids, you know? The three year old daughter during the inauguration was photographed wearing colorful band aids on basically all of her little fingers.

[Andrea Hsu]

Oh, that's so cute.

[Sarah McCammon]

Which again, very relatable if you've ever been around a toddler.

[Andrea Hsu]

Yeah, things happen.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, Ashley, you're next. What can't you let go?

[Andrea Hsu]

So what I can't let go of this week is, oddly enough, a movie press tour. And before everyone rolls their eyes, I'm not talking about the Wicked press tour, which from what I can tell was like this insane fever dream.

[Sarah McCammon]

Man.

[Andrea Hsu]

Theater kids really do a lot. But the press tour that I've been obsessed with this week is for a movie that is much, much less well known. It's called One of Them Days. It's this buddy comedy starring Keke Palmer and Sza. Oh, I'm glad you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I was a little worried that, like, this was a little too niche. But I have always loved Keke Palmer.

[Claudia Grisales]

I know, she's so.

[Andrea Hsu]

She's been the best. Like, we've kind of grown up together and SZA has been for a while now one of my favorite recording artists. To see them in a movie together, I was like, was this for me? Did they do this for me anyways. And because Issa Rae, who starred and was the showrunner for HBO's Insecure, for people who don't know, she's the movie's producer. So she's been, like, joining them on their movie press tour. And it's just been, Claudia, I very much recommend you.

[Claudia Grisales]

Oh, I can't wait to check it out.

[Andrea Hsu]

Their Hot Ones challenge. It's so good. It's just, like, a couple minutes of pure joy.

[Claudia Grisales]

I'm dying.

[Sarah McCammon]

This is all new to me, I have to admit, but I have lots of things to write.

[Claudia Grisales]

The trailer is amazing. I sent it to my kids and my husband. I was like, you gotta watch this. I did watch the trailer on a loop. I'm dying to see the movie. Maybe this weekend. They are amazing.

[Andrea Hsu]

And, you know, I gotta say, it's just kind of interesting that press tours have, like, a lot of their own cultural moments. Now. I feel like I've heard more about Timothee Chalamet's press tour for a complete unknown than I have of the actual movie. And, like, Wicked is kind of a similar thing. I don't know what's going on, but definitely in the case of this movie, I'm like, I like this. I'll eat this up with a spoon.

[Sarah McCammon]

Claudia, how about you?

[Claudia Grisales]

So what I can't let go of. And, Ashley, you're going to have to give me an assist here is the snow in the South. My mind was blown.

[Andrea Hsu]

I'm a Floridian, so Flor snow in Florida is, like, a lot. That was wild.

[Claudia Grisales]

Yes. I was, like, looking at these pictures of, like, destiny in Florida, and it's just snow. I was just there a few months ago, and it's blanketed in snow. And part of all of, like, the series of pictures and videos and everything that was coming out of there. And then from my hometown, where I grew up, Houston, they got three to four inches. They got so much. It was amazing. And so I was so worried about my parents. I was like, are they gonna be okay? But then when I talked to them that morning, they sent me all these pictures. They were overjoyed because we never got snow days in Tex. Like, the last time they got that heavy Snowfall was in 1960. So I totally missed out. We were always hoping, praying as kids. Yes, please, a little bit of snow. So it was, like a freaking miracle that that much snow fell in Houston. So it was super exciting. Even Galveston had, like, record levels of snow now. I know, Ashley, I'm sorry. I don't think you guys got as much?

[Andrea Hsu]

No, and I'm happy for it. I'm kind of traumatized in Texas now because the last really bad snowstorm we got, like, shut down the town for two weeks.

[Claudia Grisales]

Yes.

[Andrea Hsu]

I'm like, you know what you guys got like that, you know, like, Houston got the fluffy, fun part of snow. Snow happy for everyone.

[Sarah McCammon]

Snow in the south don't mix. I lived in Georgia during the snowpocalypse in, like, like 10 years ago. It's, it's. It can be really dangerous.

[Andrea Hsu]

Yeah.

[Sarah McCammon]

But, you know, I have to say, I'm just happy for all the kids who maybe had never seen snow. I mean, it's very special.

[Andrea Hsu]

Like you, Claudia. I waited. I like, my whole childhood. I mean, I go to Miami, Florida, and my whole childhood I wanted to see snow. And so.

[Claudia Grisales]

Exactly.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right, that's it for today's episode. Our executive producer is Mithani Muturi. Casey Murrell edits the podcast. Our producers are Bria Suggs and Kelly Wessinger. Special thanks to Krishnadev KALAMER. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Andrea Hsu]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover voting.

[Claudia Grisales]

And I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress when I'm not obsessed with snow.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR politics podcast.