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A
Democrats dreams of retaking the Senate this fall now likely rest on the shoulders of a fifth generation logger named Troy Jackson, who today on the show, let's make the main thing the main thing. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.
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B
I'm Melaina Moore. I cover politics. I liked that pun.
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A
I was gonna say, I like that you like that. That was our producer, Casey Morell. I was a little skeptical, but I kind of dug it, too.
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B
I don't know. I'm a bad, you know, audience because I'm sleepy.
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A
Well, I'm sure Maine public state House correspondent Kevin Miller, who joins us now from Augusta, has probably heard the Maine pun many, many times. Hi, Kevin.
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C
I'm doing well. Yeah, I've heard a couple of puns over the year, but that was pretty, that was pretty good.
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A
Okay. All right, we'll take it. Well, I want to get right into it. Kevin, I am going to level with you. I personally had never heard of Troy Jackson before a couple weeks ago, but he is now the Democratic nominee for the Senate in Maine. And here he is talking to supporters.
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C
I know many of you poured your hearts into building this movement way before I ever entered this race, but the hope that you built never belonged to any one campaign.
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A
Jackson is replacing Graham Platner, who dropped out after allegations of rape and other misconduct. Platner has denied those allegations. But, Kevin, what can you tell us about this new candidate, Troy Jackson?
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C
Yes, I've been covering Troy for about 20 years and he's an interesting character. He is a logger from far northern Maine, as you mentioned. We're talking literally just across the river from Canada. He was a state lawmaker for 20 years and served as the president of the Maine Senate for about six of those years. Then he ran for the Democratic nomination for governor just last month. I think one of the unique things about Troy is how he got into politics. And this comes up in his story all the time. He tells it back in the late 90s. He led a group of loggers in a protest where they actually blockaded border crossings with Canada. And he says he ran for the state legislature because he was so frustrated and angry that the politicians down in the state house in Augusta weren't listening to workers. And he's kind of been pushing these workers rights issues as well as these populist issues ever since. So he's kind of this very blue collar progressive candidate.
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A
Yeah, it's interesting in some ways, obviously, that sounds very similar to the sort of brand that Graham Platner was pushing before he dropped out of this race. But I feel like one big difference between Jackson and Platner is just the fact that he has worked in politics for a lot longer, and that has meant that we've seen his sort of politics change over the years, Right?
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C
Yeah, he has. I mean, he is a known quantity up here in. At least in Democratic politics in Maine. I'd say one area where his stance has changed is on abortion. And this came up during the run for governor. It's come up in the past. He told me just a few years ago that abortion is not an easy issue for him personally. He was raised Catholic. He voted early on in his political career for bills that would put additional restrictions or requirements on women who were seeking an abortion. But he says now that he believes those decisions should be made by women and their doctors, not by politicians. And as Senate president, he actually helped pass bills that expanded access to abortion after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. So that's kind of one example. But I would also say that even though he's held the second highest elected position in Maine, he hasn't always had good relations with the Democratic establishment, if you will. He actually tried running for Congress back in 2014 and was kind of forced out of the race by some of the national interests that got involved. He actually had more bills vetoed by our current governor, who is a Democrat, Janet Mills, than anyone else. And then he's been a big time Bernie Sanders supporter for more than a decade now.
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A
The outsider credentials seems like a really good thing for a Democratic candidate right now. But a candidate who has in the past voiced those complicated feelings about abortion does not seem like a popular choice for, I don't know, for many Democrats. What do you make of this?
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B
Yeah, I mean, well, supporters of his that I've talked to up here in Maine over the last few days say it's okay for people to change. You know, Graham Platner ran very, you know, obviously allegations came out about his behavior towards women and alleged sexual assault, but he ran as in, you know, a candidate that had changed. He talked about the need for redemption. This is a very different comparison. But Troy Jackson's supporters talk about how it's okay for people to change their politics, and it's about judging what they've done since. And, you know, yeah, people celebrate his record on everything from abortion rights to LGBTQ rights, despite those initial conservative views. And really, you know, I was at the main Democratic nominating convention in Bangor, and that's kind of. The supporters kept Going back to this idea that he has a record. He has a record. So he's talking the talk like how, how Platner did, emphasizing things like union rights, labor rights, Medicare for all, increased minimum wage, et cetera, these economically populist ideas. But at the same time, he has some political experience. Here's how one of his delegates who ended up casting a ballot for him at the convention put it. This is Aurora Greene, who is a student at the University of Maine. This isn't about Graham Platner.
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This isn't even about Troy Jackson.
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B
This is about a movement of working
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C
class Mainers and workers.
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A
Talk a little bit more about how this all evolved since Blattner dropped out. I know there was this nominating convention, as Elena mentioned, this past weekend. Was there opposition initially to Jackson? Was there a real competition or did the party coalesce around him pretty quickly?
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C
Well, There were initially 12 candidates who got into the race and they included some other big, bigger name Democrats, people who just ran for governor and ran for Congress. And it was kind of easy for them because they were able to. They already had campaigns set up from their runs for governor for Congress. So they were able to just kind of transition this, ramp those back up to run for Senate. Before this convention. They held delegate selection meetings the previous weekend where candidates basically they'd go in and you could either be non committed or you could be committed. But Troy Jackson's campaign did such a good job of basically mobilizing their supporters to show up at these delegate selection meetings. And these were the delegates who actually voted this past Saturday for the nominee. They did such a great job of mobilizing those folks that it was clear very early on that Troy Jackson's supporters were just going to run away with this and were basically taking most of the seats. So by the time we all gathered in Saturday at this convention, it felt more like a Troy Jackson pep rally than a nominating convention. There was still one candidate left, but I don't know what Elena's thoughts on it were, but I think the way I would describe the reception of that candidate from the crowd was polite and respectful, but that was about it.
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B
People were polite and respectful, but I think the writing was on the wall. There were nearly 600 elected delegates there. Jackson won all but five votes. So this wasn't even close. But I do think it's important to say even though there was so much excitement, excitement in the room up in Bangor, when you talk to everyday voters, this is still a bit of a whiplash, you know, like people Were really excited about Platner. I think we have to underscore that. And some voters who were supporting him say this isn't the easiest switch. Even though they plan to vote for Jackson in November and they like his policies, they're not sure if he's the right person to keep this momentous campaign going. I talked to Lynn Heasley about that. She lives up in Belfast, Maine, on the water. And she had actually volunteered for Platner's campaign. Here's what she said. I'm not completely, like, done and given up, but no, I'm not as excited. That's a personality thing. And I think what's most important is whether the job gets done and whether we have people voting the way we need them to be voting. And, you know, I asked Jackson about that after the nominating convention. I asked, you know, like, how are, how are you going to keep people excited? There are so many people who feel this frustration with how things have turned out, and he acknowledged that. But he said, you know, he's not a show horse, he is a workhorse. And so I think that's what he's going to try to communicate to those people.
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A
I want to hear a little bit more Kevin about his style, because I think that's the thing that keeps coming up is this contrast to Platner's ability to get people fired up. Is it fair to say that that isn't really in his repertoire or how he communicates as a politician. Is that. Does he not have that same sort of impact on voters?
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C
Well, I think it's. He has a different style. I mean, I think both when you hear Troy Jackson speak, you know, and I've heard him speak many times. You know, I remember there was one event, I think it was back in 2015 or 2016, where Bernie Sanders was here. This was during the 2016 nominating process for president. And, and he introduced Bernie Sanders and he had. Troy had everybody in that coliseum on their feet, fired up, so he can give a real barn burner kind of a speech. He's not as good answering questions or in debates. I think the thing that made Platner so unique is that he was just a phenomenal communicator. We haven't seen anybody like that up here in Maine, certainly in my time, my decades up here. And he had a way of just speaking and communicating that you would go to these rallies and people would come away almost like starry eyed. They'd say, wow, he's such a powerful speaker. Jackson can be a powerful speaker. But he lacks a little bit of that, I guess the charisma. But at the same time he actually has much more, I'd say the kind of the working class bona fides than Platner did. He's a logger. He grew up in fairly impoverished area. Far northern Maine has represented the rural parts of the state for 20 years. It's definitely a contrast in their styles, but their messages are the same. But I think some of the tape that Elena just played, that's going to be the challenge for him. Can he keep those really enthusiastic Graham Platner supporters, keep them motivated and get them to show up in November?
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A
Okay, well, let's take a quick break and more on Jackson's chances against Susan Collins in just a moment.
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D
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Learn more@schwab.com this week on sources and methods. Something has shifted in Ukraine. Protests in the streets, a shakeup in military leadership. The two people you're kind of watching as they ran the war in Ukraine
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are now both out of a job.
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Plus how President Trump seems to be shifting when it comes to his tone on Russia. Listen this week to Sources and Methods, the National Security podcast from npr.
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Instead of scrolling mindlessly, engage mindfully with the NPR app. With a mix of on demand news stories from this station and your favorite podcast, you can relax without shutting off your brain. Download the NPR app today. And we're back. So Kevin, it cannot be overstated how important this race in Maine is to Democrats chances dreams of retaking the Senate this fall. This is the only race where Republican senator is running in a state where Kamala Harris won in 2024. But I just want to note Susan Collins won in 2020 when Joe Biden won the state at the same time. So I guess I'm just wondering, how is this Race different or why are Democrats feeling so much better about this this time around?
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C
Yeah, it's true. I mean, she beat her opponent by, I think it was 9% in 2020 at the same year when Joe Biden beat Donald Trump by a significant margin in the state. But I think the big factor here has to be Donald Trump. Now, you know, to be fair, Democrats tried really hard back in 2020 to link Collins to the Trump agenda. But this time around, Trump is just even more unpopular, certainly with Democrats, but also with many of the independents up here. And about one third of Maine voters are independents. Many people are just extremely unhappy with the economy and with inflation and the immigration surge. We just had a fatal shooting of an immigrant by an ICE officer up here. The war in Iran, all these things are really unpopular. The majority of Maine households heat their homes with heating oil, which is basically diesel. Maine's a pretty chilly state, and you've all seen how the price of diesel has shot up during the war with Iran. These are all things that Democrats are trying to hang around. Collins saying that she is either enabling Trump or she's not doing enough to stand up to him. So the question is, how much does that resonate come November? And I think a lot of that's probably comes down to what happens between now and November politically with the president.
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B
I'd be curious, Kevin, for your thoughts on, like, something. When I talk to people on both sides of the aisle or people who felt like they were really true independence, it always came back to this idea of, like, which leader can best represent Maine and support Maine? And I feel like when I've gone to other places and talked to people, I don't hear as much this focus on specifically, like, okay, but us, you know, our state. So I'm kind of curious what path voters will take to get there. You know, do they go with Collins, who obviously has a record of winning in the state, obviously makes a lot of deals, you know, and gets funding back to Maine? She has a very powerful seat on the Appropriations Committee. That's one of the most, you know, influential roles in the Senate. Or do people, you know, who are craving change act on that? And is she representative of longtime leaders that need to go? And so I'm kind of curious, like, it sounds like the overall objective for most voters is, you know, bring change back to Maine.
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C
Yeah, I think that's. That's going to be the. The key factor here. I mean, Susan Collins is an absolute institution in Maine. She's been in office for 30 years. You mentioned she's chair of the, of the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee. And that's something that she points to all the time. And she says, you know, not only do I provide steady leadership, I'm benefiting the state with my senior position. I'm able to bring all this money back for firehouses, for wastewater treatment, for roads. All these things are important. I think that's going to be key to their argument. But I think what Democrats are obviously going to try to do is to say, okay, that's all well and fine, any senator is going to bring back money to their home state. But in the meantime, Collins is doing all these things. She's not doing enough to stand up to Trump. She's actually, as the Appropriations chair, she's working on immigration budgets that fund ice. When there's a strong movement to abolish or reform ice, she's not doing enough to push back, even though she holds this powerful position, to the Trump administration's blatant attempts to basically take away the power of the purse from Congress. And so I think that tug between wanting change, there's definitely a lot of support on the Democratic side and among many independents for change. The tug on the other side is what seniority do you lose? What influence would Maine lose by having Susan Collins go away and having a freshman senator come in and take their place?
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A
It's interesting also just switching out the candidates this close to the general election. Kevin, it kind of puts the Collins campaign a little bit on the defensive. From an opposition research perspective. Do we have any sense of how they're planning to attack Jackson specifically?
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C
I mean, we have already seen a number of negative news articles and coverage going after Troy Jackson because he is a bit of a, kind of a fiery personality. He's known for getting passionate around issues. There's an incident that's been widely reported now that, that I remember happening up here where he allegedly threw a half filled plastic water bottle across a room in an argument with another Democrat in the Senate when he was Senate president. They're definitely going to seize on that. He has other things from his history that I'm sure are going to come out. But unlike Platner, Jackson has been out in the public eye to some extent for more than 20 years. So I think finding that dirt is going to be a little bit more difficult than with Platner, which we all saw how much dirt came up during, during that campaign.
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A
Is there anything else, I guess, to both of you that you're going to be watching specifically over the next couple months as this election this general election gets closer.
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Yeah, I think the thing I'm going to be watching from the politics side is just how voters continue to weigh the labels that we're seeing really carry a lot of weight in different elections across the country right now. You know, we're seeing candidates on the left garner a lot of enthusiasm when they rail against the so called political establishment, when they pledge to work for working people, this populist message. And I think in a state like Maine, where so much of the state is rural and folks do different trades, I'm really curious to see what those labels mean to voters. You know, I talked to some voters while I was traveling around the state who kind of raised their eyebrow a little bit at Jackson's emphasis on his blue collar roots, saying that those roots will make him an advocate for working class people and folks who feel potentially forgotten. I talked to this man in Bangor who was actually kind of interested in Platner at the beginning because he was a political outsider. But when he looks at Jackson vs. Collins, someone who's been in state government for decades or federal government for decades, it's not as simple of a choice. So, like, what does it mean to be an establishment figure?
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A
Yeah, I mean, it also gets to this idea that I'm wondering if this is going to impact things. We talked about this a couple weeks ago on the pod when this whole Platner thing started unraveling. But this sense that, you know, Jackson is in some way being coordinated by the party, obviously they had this nominating convention. There was some sense of the party choosing, but it wasn't a traditional primary in any sense. And so I guess, I wonder, it does have the sort of a little bit of the air of the 2024 Kamala Harris thing on it. And I guess I wonder if that also makes it a little bit more difficult for him to sort of differentiate himself from the party or from party establishment.
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C
Yeah, I'd say that that memory of 2024 really hung heavily over the state Democratic leaders as they tried to figure out a way to do this. They wanted to make sure they were still respecting the overwhelming support that Graham Platner received in the Democratic primary. He received more votes in our June primary than any Senate primary candidate in history, 72% of the vote. I mean, granted, Governor Janet Mills had withdrawn from the race at that point, and there was a third candidate who really hadn't gotten much traction. So there was this sense among the Democratic leadership they needed to do this in a way that would still allow Platner supporters to have a voice. And I think we saw that with the delegate selection process where Jackson was able to turn out so many supporters because of his deep roots in the labor unions in Maine who can turn out people on a dime. And then also the support among Graham Platner's followers because they had such a similar message. But kind of to Alina's point about some of the voters she talked to, I think one of the big things with Maine is that this is a state that has a very long history of split ticket voters. You have Democrats who have voted for Collins in the past. You have independents who will vote for a Republican in one race and will vote for a Democrat in another race. I think that is going to be really interesting to watch how that plays out this year in a year where everybody's talking about could be another blue wave. There's obviously a lot of momentum on the Democratic side. But Maine is also a state that turns out voters in high numbers usually has among the highest voter participation rates in the country. We also have a governor's race. This year we have one of the most closely watched House races in Maine's 2nd congressional district. So I think there might be a lot of Republicans who are going to turn out for this election as well as Democrats.
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A
Yeah, it's interesting. It feels like the Democrats obviously have a lot of the fundamentals going in their direction, but Collins has that incumbency which also comes with a lot of money, right?
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C
Yeah, it does. And there is a huge, I think that's one of the biggest challenges that Troy Jackson faces. He's getting into this race 100 days before the election. He even admits he's like just a month ago he was fishing out in the woods near his home after having lost the Democratic primary for governor. Running for Senate wasn't on his radar. Then everything happened with Platner. He got into the race. He's coming in with a huge financial disadvantage. Susan Collins campaign said last week they had more than $11 million in their war chest. We all know that the Republican national groups are flush with money right now and they're pledging to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in this race. The challenge for, for Troy Jackson will be how quickly can he ramp up that financial, that fundraising side. We heard from them today that he raised $2 million just since Saturday. So that's a pretty good sign. But the national Democratic groups and allies are going to have to step in and really come to his defense and push his campaign if they want to compete with all the spending on the Republican side.
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A
All right. Well, we can leave it there for today. Kevin Miller of Maine Public, thank you so much for joining us.
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Thank you for having me.
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I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.
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I'm Elena Moore. I cover politics.
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A
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.
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B
Have you ever been so upset that you can't even think straight?
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C
When we're distressed and in high anxiety,
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B
we tend to breathe from our chest,
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C
which is actually more hyperventilating and is the opposite of relaxing. So we want to breathe from our belly area.
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B
This week on the Life Kit podcast, tips for those painful, stressful moments. Listen to Life Kit on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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A
This week on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, we talked to Tyler James Williams, star of Abbott elementary, about the special
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C
connection he has with real teachers. If there's a teacher within 100 yards
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A
of me, I'm going to know. I'm going to know. They're either going to tell me or
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C
I'll see it in their eyes. Don't miss our full conversation and the
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rest of our games.
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C
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