Jack Smith defends Trump investigations and Trump backs off Greenland threat

Summary

NPR Politics Podcast — Detailed Summary

Episode Title: Jack Smith defends Trump investigations and Trump backs off Greenland threat
Date: January 23, 2026
Hosts: Ashley Lopez (Politics), Carrie Johnson (Justice Dept.), Domenico Montanaro (Senior Political Editor), Franco Ordoñez (White House)
Main Themes: Jack Smith’s Congressional testimony on Trump investigations, President Trump’s negotiation regarding Greenland, evolving international relationships, and more.

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into two headline political stories:

1. Jack Smith’s public defense of his Trump investigations a year into Trump’s second presidency.
2. President Trump’s pivot on potential action toward Greenland, the backlash, and ramifications for US-European alliances.

Panelists analyze the significance of these developments, their political implications, and the broader mood shaping American democracy and foreign relations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jack Smith’s Testimony in Congress

• Recap of the Cases (01:08–02:35):

  • Smith, as special counsel, secured two indictments against Trump:
    • Classified Documents Case: FBI found classified materials at Mar-a-Lago (bathroom, ballroom, office, etc.), with Trump allegedly refusing returns.
    • Capitol Riot Case: Related to January 6, 2021 riots and Trump’s alleged efforts to overturn 2020 election results.
  • Neither case reached trial before Trump’s 2024 win.

• Smith’s Demeanor & Statements (02:35–04:07):

  • Smith presented himself as understated, composed, and unwavering.
  • Quote: “He defended both of the cases that he brought against Trump and said if they had gone to trial, he’s convinced the president would have been found guilty even by that high standard of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt.” — Carrie Johnson (02:40)
  • He denied partisanship, unsure even of his own voter registration.
  • Regrets not appreciating his team more.
  • On pardons for January 6 rioters: Smith expressed disbelief at pardoning those who assaulted police, warning against taking the rule of law for granted.

• “No One Above the Law” (03:35–03:42):

  • Quote: “No one should be above the law in this country, and the law required that he be held to account. So that is what I did.” — Jack Smith, via Franco Ordoñez

• Witnesses & Political Impact (05:01–05:36):

  • Smith’s star witnesses would have been Republicans who supported Trump, including Mike Pence and officials from swing states.

• Trump’s Response (05:40–06:44):

  • Trump, returning from the World Economic Forum, attacked Smith on Truth Social, calling him “deranged” and demanding his prosecution for alleged perjury.
  • Trump revoked security clearances from lawyers representing Smith, signaling reprisals.

• Political and Legal Ramifications (06:44–08:43):

  • Enduring partisanship swamps even stark evidence; Trump’s approval/disapproval ratings remain largely static.
  • One aspect of Smith’s report (Mar-a-Lago documents) is still sealed, potentially leaving the door open for further Congressional testimony.

• Did Republicans Succeed in Painting Smith as Partisan? (08:43–09:59):

  • Consensus: Smith’s calm, fact-based approach undermined Republican efforts to brand him a political operator.
  • “The idea of treating him as some kind of rampaging partisan wasn’t really borne out if you were watching some of this on TV.” — Carrie Johnson (09:19)

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2. Trump Takes Back Greenland Threat

• Uncertainty Surrounding Deal (10:31–12:43):

  • Trump announced a “framework” deal after meeting with NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte.
  • The deal appears to pause any threat of US use of force toward Greenland (a Danish territory), averting a crisis. However, details remain unclear, especially regarding Denmark’s involvement.
  • The international community—and markets—breathed a sigh of relief, as the threat of US military action against a NATO ally had rattled global alliances.

• Saving Face & Domestic Factors (12:43–13:46):

  • “This really is like kind of a Trump saving face off ramp.” — Domenico Montanaro (12:43)
  • Trump’s softer tone in Davos correlated with plunging stock markets reacting to invasion rumors. Economic signals—stock market declines—appear to have influenced Trump’s pivot.

• Analyzing Trump’s Motives (13:59–14:58):

  • Trump is known to react to market cues and financial news, even overriding hawkish instincts if economically pressured.
  • International backlash, including European military exercises and public condemnations, was unusual and strident (“global leaders were freaking out... all these leaders talking about a rupture of international order.” — Franco Ordoñez 14:11).

• Long-Term Strain on Alliances (15:06–16:36):

  • Trump’s remarks (“Canada lives because of the United States. Remember that, Mark…”) and disinvitations (e.g., PM Carney off the Board of Peace) escalate tensions.
  • The rhetoric implies all of the Western hemisphere is US “territory,” signaling a more assertive stance.
  • This has concrete implications for trade deals and US–Canada–Mexico relations.

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3. Board of Peace: Trump’s Global Initiative

• Structure and Controversy (16:47–19:40):
  • Trump signed a charter for the Board of Peace (meant for Gaza peace), involving allies (Bahrain, Argentina, UAE, etc.) and controversial invitations (Putin, Orban).
  • The Board is seen as a potential rival to, or even replacement for, the UN, with Trump holding veto and agenda-setting power.
  • Membership comes with a high buy-in (“countries that want permanent status pay a billion dollars to be part of it”)—reminiscent of Mar-a-Lago’s exclusivity (“It’s very much like a club.” — Domenico Montanaro 18:13).
  • Major democracies (UK, Germany, France) keep their distance, citing lack of transparency and the unilateral approach.

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4. Trump’s Speech at Davos: Domestic Pivot or Legacy Play?

• Scripted vs. Unscripted Trump (19:47–22:09):
  • The White House wants Trump to focus on the economy and domestic issues as midterms approach. However, he often veers off-message—discussing legacy, international adventures, and the stock market instead.
  • Trump’s comments about housing prices (“doesn’t want housing to be more affordable if it means wealth declines”) seem out of touch with ordinary concerns.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump Indictments:
  “If they had gone to trial, he’s convinced the president would have been found guilty even by that high standard of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt.” — Carrie Johnson (02:40)

• Jack Smith's Principle:
  “No one should be above the law in this country, and the law required that he be held to account. So that is what I did.” — Jack Smith, via Franco Ordoñez (03:35–03:42)

• On the Board of Peace:
  “Membership is a billion dollars... Trump is in charge. It’s very much like a club. The club that he runs in Florida is Mar-a-Lago... It’s clearly Trump’s right. That’s what he wants.” — Domenico Montanaro (18:13)

• On Trump’s Legacy:
  “He’s almost 80 years old. You look back on your life, you look back on your presidency, you start to think, What have I accomplished? What is my legacy going to be?” — Domenico Montanaro (21:10)

• European Perspective:
  “The French president... said that the board’s charter goes beyond... Gaza and raises serious questions... with respect to principles and structures of the United Nations.” — Franco Ordoñez (19:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:08–04:07: Intro to Jack Smith’s cases and Congressional testimony
• 04:07–05:36: Notable aspects of Smith’s defense and potential witnesses
• 05:40–06:44: Trump’s response and retaliation toward Smith
• 06:56–08:43: Broader implications for US politics and transparency
• 08:43–09:59: Did Smith appear partisan? Analysis
• 10:31–12:43: Trump’s Greenland “framework” and international reaction
• 12:43–14:58: Factors behind Trump’s pivot on Greenland
• 15:06–16:36: Fallout for US-European relations
• 16:47–19:40: Dissection of Trump’s ‘Board of Peace’
• 19:47–22:09: Trump’s economic messaging and legacy questions

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“Can’t Let It Go” (22:28–29:16)

A lighter section where hosts share their week’s obsessions:

• Trinity Rodman stays in DC soccer: ‘The Rodman Rule’
• Drake vs. Kendrick Lamar rap beef and lawsuit: “If you're a pop star, you don’t get into a rap battle with a rapper.”
• ‘Heated Rivalry’ TV hit: a Canadian gay hockey romance show becomes a global phenomenon, with its stars now Olympic torchbearers.

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Tone & Style

The discussion is characteristically NPR: balanced, calm, analytical, and a blend of reporting and conversational banter. Panelists use mild humor but remain focused on political consequences and wider significance, making the episode both informative and accessible for lay and expert audiences alike.

Transcript

[Ashley Lopez]

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[Domenico Montanaro]

Hi, this is tim in Rochester, Minnesota. I'm currently sitting inside with my one day old baby daughter looking outside at the negative 8 degree temperature. Glad I'm warm and cozy inside.

[Ashley Lopez]

This podcast was recorded at 12:36pm Eastern Time on January 23, 2026.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I will be soaking up all the cuddle time that I can get.

[Ashley Lopez]

That's so nice. Well, congratulations on a new baby. It sounds snuggling warm.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Oh man, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a weekend.

[Ashley Lopez]

We're all getting prepared for similar weather over here. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Carrie Johnson]

I'm Carrie Johnson. I cover the Justice Department.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Ashley Lopez]

And today on the show, we're going to try to make sense of another busy week in the world of politics. This week marked a year since President Trump was sworn in for a second time. This month also marks four, five years after an angry mob attacked the US Capitol on January 6, 2021. That attack led to a criminal investigation into Trump led by then special counsel Jack Smith. Smith was on Capitol Hill yesterday speaking publicly for the first time about those cases. Carrie, let's start with you. Before we get into what we heard from Smith, can you please remind us of the two indictments. Right. That Smith secured against Trump?

[Carrie Johnson]

He did get two indictments against Trump. Neither of these cases went to trial before Trump won the election in 202024 and returned to the White House. But the first of these cases relates to classified documents the FBI found at Trump's Florida Mar? A Lago resort in a bathroom, a ballroom, an office, all kinds of other places that were pretty heavily trafficked and Trump's alleged refusal to turn those materials back over to the government. And the second case revolved around the capitol riot on January 6th and Trump's alleged efforts to overturn the will of the voters in the 2020 election, which he lost to Joe Biden. And so those indictments were the first of their kind. But we never saw the bulk of Jack Smith's evidence and juries never heard testimony about those allegations. Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, how would you describe what you heard yesterday from Jack Smith?

[Carrie Johnson]

You know, Jack Smith has been portrayed by Republicans in Congress and by the Trump White House as out of control. And but he was very controlled in his testimony before Congress. He was almost even soft spoken, didn't raise his voice at all. Understated, but he didn't give any ground. He defended both of the cases that he brought against Trump and said if they had gone to trial, he's convinced the president would have been found guilty even by that high standard of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt. Jack Smith also said he's not a partisan. He wasn't even sure how he was registered, either as an independent voter or no one at all. And he said if he had any regrets, it was not appreciating his team of lawyers and federal agents more than he did at the time. Here's a little bit more about what Jack Smith had to say about why he did what he did.

[Franco Ordonez]

No one should be above the law in this country, and the law required.

[Domenico Montanaro]

That he be held to account.

[Franco Ordonez]

So that is what I did.

[Carrie Johnson]

Jack Smith also talked a little bit more broadly than about his cases. When he was asked about the president's mass pardons for people who rioted at the Capitol on January 6, Smith's said he couldn't understand pardoning people who had beat up police officers that day. And he also said that he's concerned that the rule of law has worked so well in the United States that maybe we've started to take it for granted and that we should not do that.

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, Domenica, what stood out to you about Smith's testimony yesterday?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, I think the thing that stood out to me most is just how clear he was about and how calm he was about how he felt that his investigation went. When we've been in a year of Donald Trump causing all of this kind of chaos around the world, he's largely immune from any kind of criminal prosecution for official acts that he takes as president because the Supreme Court allowed that for presidents going forward. And yet here was Jack Smith very calmly, very clearly saying he thinks they would have won a case because he committed criminal acts and that they had proof beyond a reasonable doubt as to that fact. And when you have leaders in the world, Republicans in particular in Congress, law firms, universities, trying to figure out how to deal with Trump, it was interesting to see somebody who was as clear as he was.

[Carrie Johnson]

You know, one of the points that he made that was kind of interesting politically was this. If that federal election interference case had ever gone to trial, the one here in Washington, D.C. smith said that his main witnesses, his star witnesses, would have been Republicans who supported Donald Trump in that election. He was prepared to call people like Trump's Vice President, Mike Pence, the Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, members of Congress, people who had volunteered to serve as electors in swing states. And so the evidence that the jury would have heard would have been out of the mouths of Republicans.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Kerry, have we heard from Trump? Has he had anything to say about Smith's testimony?

[Carrie Johnson]

You know, Trump was coming back from overseas from the World Economic Forum in Davos, but he posted on Truth Social twice on the way home about Jack Smith. The first post called Jack Smith deranged and said he was being decimated by Congress. And Trump said he was hoping the Attorney General was watching Jack Smith. And then secondly, Trump doubled down in another post and said, based on his testimony today, there's no question that deranged Jack Smith should be prosecuted for his actions. The President said, at a minimum, he committed large scale perjury. And interestingly enough, Smith was actually asked by Democrats about the issue of retribution or a vendetta. And the former special counsel said he fully expected to be the subject of Trump's vendetta and maybe even to be prosecuted himself. But Smith said, I will not be intimidated. And it's worth noting that when he came back into office, the President actually yanked the security clearances of some of the lawyers representing Jack Smith. So there's already been a signal in that direction.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, well, stepping back, Domenico, I mean, thinking about the time since Smith's investigation, obviously Trump is now president, what does this whole situation tell you about the state of our politics right now?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, if you step back, you know, and you think about the fact that we all saw people climbing walls to break into the Capitol and do so to try to interrupt the certification of the electors who were inspired by Trump. We all saw boxes of classified documents piled up in Donald Trump's bathrooms in Mar a Lago. And what happened is that everything just sort of got absorbed into partisanship. You know, I mean, no matter where you look, almost in the entire time that Donald Trump has been on public SC and you wind up with like a 53% disapproval rating, a low 40s approval rating, and almost nothing changes that because of just how quickly the right has moved to say that they're just on Team Trump, regardless of what the evidence, facts, video photos show.

[Carrie Johnson]

I should point out there's one shoe left to drop here. At the end of the day, Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee held out the prospect that Smith could be called back to testify again because the second part of Jack Smith's report, the one that has to do with the documents found at Mar A Lago, still remains secret under orders from a Trump appointed judge, Eileen Cannon in Florida. And there have been efforts by news media organizations and good government groups to try to make that report public so Smith can talk more about it and we can all see more of the evidence the DOJ amassed. But for right now, he's been limited in what he's had to say. So it's possible he could be called back to the Hill to talk about that classified documents, part of his investigation. But it's not at all clear to me at this stage that we're gonna be able to read that report anytime soon.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

Something to look out for. Well, I am curious to hear from both of you whether you think House Republicans achieved what they wanted here, which was to make Jack Smith look like a partisan at all. Did that come across at all in this?

[Domenico Montanaro]

I don't think so. I mean, he came across as somebody who believed in what he was doing, who seems to be somebody who is, you know, calm and able to prosecute based on the facts. And, you know, Trump has been out there, you know, putting on these truth, social allegations and talking in public about how he's deranged, he's a lunatic and all of that. I think anybody who watched the hearing would probably come away with a very different view.

[Carrie Johnson]

The chairman of the committee, Jim Jordan of Ohio, started out by saying Jack Smith's investigation was always all about politics and an effort to get Donald Trump. And they were willing to do almost anything to make that happen, including, as Jordan and other Republicans pointed out, getting the metadata, getting phone call records of some of these lawmakers in conversations with either the president or some of Trump's allies like Rudy Giuliani. But his misdemeanor was pretty understated throughout the whole hearing. And so the idea of treating him as some kind of rampaging partisan wasn't really borne out if you were watching some of this on tv.

[Ashley Lopez]

All right, Kerry, we're going to let you go. Thanks for being here.

[Carrie Johnson]

Oh, my pleasure.

[Ashley Lopez]

We're going to take a quick break. More in a moment.

[Franco Ordonez]

NPR's podcast, Trump's Terms is your source for same day updates on big news about the Trump administration. Short, focused episodes, one topic at a time, about five minutes or so. We carry out reporting from across all of NPR's coverage. So you are always getting the biggest, most urgent stories. Listen to Trump's Terms on the NPR app or wherever you get your Podcasts.

[Ashley Lopez]

And we're back, and White House correspondent Franco Ordarnas joins us now. Hi, Franco.

[Franco Ordonez]

Hi, all. It's great to be here.

[Ashley Lopez]

So let's turn now to the world stage where President Trump has focused most of his attention. This week, Trump announced the framework of a deal related to Greenland. Franco, what do we know about this framework as of now? I know that's been changing.

[Franco Ordonez]

Well, I mean, I think so much is uncertain right now. It does change the situation a lot. I mean, I think the big thing that it really does is kind of takes the threat of the US Invading an ally, a NATO country, off the table or, you know, we're talking about Trump here, maybe off the table for now. We are still waiting on specific details about what this framework is. A lot of questions about will this actually be different than the treaty that the US Signed with Denmark decades ago already? And, you know, Trump announced this framework after meeting with the NATO Secretary General, Mark Rudde. There are real questions about what involvement Denmark had in these conversations. Now, Trump even himself mentioned that Ruda most likely talked with Denmark, but Trump was obviously not talking with Denmark. So with the lack of details apparent now about Denmark, I think there's still so much uncertainty about what this really means. But what has been averted is that rapidly steamrolling situation of this turning into an international crisis. I mean, it really was an international crisis with foreign leaders essentially describing the US as imperialist and authoritarian without naming Trump specifically, of course, them sending military to the region for exercises and Trump hitting back with not so veiled threats, slapping new tariffs or promises of new tarif on European allies, trolling the leaders online. So this is potentially kind of an exit ramp. But I think the real question is what is the damage that has been done and whether it can be repaired or what amount of it can be repaired.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, I was going to say this really is like kind of a Trump saving face off ramp, which is, you know, we've talked about in the podcast as a potential thing that it seemed like that's the direction things were heading. You could hear his sort of softer tone in Davos about this, saying very clearly he was not going to use force to go into Greenland. And what was happening domestically was the stock market was dropping on the news of the potential continued threats to invade or take action over Greenland. And you could hear Trump sort of bemoaning the fact that he thinks that there's all these great successes and the stock market goes down, it should be going up. He would continue to talk about them as America's earnings almost. But it was clear that. But the subtext of that was the stock market was going down. If there's one thing that moves him, it is whether or not the stock market's going up or down.

[Franco Ordonez]

So true. I mean, it was the same thing with him backing off of tariffs. It's the stock market. And the stock market often is one of the most powerful things that does move Trump.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Now, is it going to mean anything really concrete? As for the United States control over Greenland, the United States had a lot of access to Greenland if it wanted it before this.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, does the stock market fully explain the change of course here regarding use of force? I mean, or was Europe, as you mentioned, Frank, with the trolling? Was that also in the mix? Or, like, how do you assess, like, why he eventually changed his mind?

[Franco Ordonez]

I mean, I've covered Trump for a while now, since the beginning of the first administration. One lesson I learned is not to try to get too much into the president's brain. That said, this was a real international situation. I mean, you had US Allies sending military forces to the region. The global leaders were freaking out. You had Denmark literally saying, this is so emotional for us. All these leaders, Mark Carney, Prime Minister of Canada, is talking about a rupture of international order. They were saying the private stuff that they've been talking about for a while out in public and very forcefully. And I do think that definitely played a role.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Well, I mean, what do you think this says, though, about Trump's relationship overall with Europe now? I mean, do we talk about it differently now?

[Franco Ordonez]

I mean, I think the damage is very real. I mean, Trump took back his invitation to the Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney, to join the Board of Peace in Gaza. In Trump's speech, he said, this is a quote, canada lives because of the United States. Remember that, Mark, the next time you make your statements. And those statements were, of course, talking about the rupture of the order and implying authoritarianism. It was really tough stuff. This could also have an impact on the future of the trade deal between the U.S. canada and Mexico. There are a lot of implications here that are going to continue to reverberate. And again, I think there are real questions about what parts of the relationship can be repaired and what can't be.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Repaired, and saying that a sovereign nation lives inside the United States. If you're reading between the lines with what Trump is talking about there, he really believes that the Western Hemisphere is America's. It's the United States, you know, region.

[Franco Ordonez]

He Said it in his speech. This is our territory.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah. This is our territory. And if that's the case, then everyone in that territory is subject to the rules and guidance and the ways of doing things of the United States. And we've seen this now start to build over the last several months of Trump trying to assert American dominance in the Western Hemisphere.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, I do want to talk about another major development this week concerning the Board of Peace, which is the body charged with overseeing the peace deal in Gaza. Franco, can you tell us what we learned so far about it?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah. President Trump was actually joined by a small number of leaders when he was in Davos, and he signed a charter of the Board of Peace. And you have a bunch of leaders who involved, including Bahrain, Argentina, Azerbaijan, uae, Qatar. He also actually has invites out for Russia's Vladimir Putin as well as Hungary's Viktor Orban, which is what, in many ways makes it very, very controversial. Now, Trump's kind of billed it as this new body that's going to be part of a solution to global conflicts, kind of a perhaps a rival to the United Nations. Trump said it could even potentially replace the United Nations. But I think what we saw with the Carney example and Trump revoking the invitation to Carney to serve on the Board of Peace, I mean, I think it just reflects the power that Trump plans to have over the Board of Peace. It really is his board. Even the charter gives him tremendous power to veto decisions, to remove members, to change agenda items. So it's really a new way of doing business in international order, where dissent, especially dissent against Trump. There are real questions about whether that.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Will be acceptable, and there's literally about doing business because the countries that want permanent status pay a billion dollars to be part of it. And Trump is in charge. It's very much like a club. The club that he runs in Florida is Mar a Lago, where he lives. You have to pay a certain amount of money to be involved. And it's clearly Trump's right. That's what he wants. He doesn't like the United nations because the United nations is too collaborative and undercuts the United States power, Trump's power in particular. And when you look at the countries that are involved here, Franco named some of them, but Argentina, Turkey, Bulgaria, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Pakistan. I mean, these are not Saudi Arabia. Yeah, right. It's notable that the uk, Germany, France, they're all saying, no, we don't want any part of this. And that is a huge crackup in the world order.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Is that what We've been hearing largely from European leaders a big no.

[Franco Ordonez]

I mean, they're definitely saying a big no for right now. Well, the uk, they raised concerns about Putin being involved and the potential of Putin being involved. The French president, Emmanuel Macron, at least his office, said that the board's charter goes beyond the, quote, sole framework of Gaza and raises serious questions with respect to principles and structures of the United Nations. Again, I think that speaks to what you're saying, Domenico.

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's like a early aughts rom com. He's just not that into you.

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, all of this, as you mentioned, happened during the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, where Trump did take some time, time to talk about the US Economy. What did you guys make of that part of the speech?

[Franco Ordonez]

I mean, I would say that was like the scripted part of the speech. I mean, so often with Trump, there is the scripted part and there's the unscripted part, and the talk about the economy and housing and domestic issues that Trump was getting around was part of the White House's plan and effort to get Trump to move back towards domestic policies. Because we have a huge, very important midterm elections coming up, up in the fall, and the campaign season is really, really going to be ramping up. And this administration, this White House, has been promising for a while that Trump is going to pivot to domestic issues, but Trump keeps going back to foreign issues. Invading Venezuela, capturing the Venezuelan leader, threatening Iran, now threatening and now backing off a bit on Greenland. So I think that was a clear example of the White House trying to take some control and moving Trump to an issue that is vitally important to the Republican Party, because the Republican Party is focused on winning elections where Trump continues to seem to be more interested in history and his legacy.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I think legacy is a big piece of this, right? I mean, he's almost 80 years old. You look back on your life, you look back on your presidency, you know, you start to think, what have I accomplished? What is my legacy going to be? And look, affordability, quote, unquote, cost of living is not exactly something you can message your way out of as a difficulty. It happened to Joe Biden also, right? And it's very similar, this approach that he's taking. He kind of went off script in Davos, and he's supposed to be talking about feeling people's pain, and instead he starts talking about. About how he doesn't really want housing prices to come down because that could hurt people's wealth. So he's like, I could do it. So Quickly to bring housing prices down. But he doesn't want to do that. Well, I mean, housing, medical care, childcare, tuition, prices of groceries, these are real things. People are struggling with how to buy. And he's most consumed with the stock market and wealth.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

All right, well. Well, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back, and it's time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. Franco, I wanna start with you. What can't you let go of this week?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I have the best Can't Let it go ever. And I'm really excited, actually, to bring it up to Domenico. Cause I love talking.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Is this another soccer thing?

[Franco Ordonez]

So I love. Last time I brought up soccer to Domenico, we went at it and it was men's soccer. So today it is women's soccer. And it is the news that Trinity Rodman, the star forward of the Washington Spirit, our hometown team, has signed a new contract with the Washington Spirit. And it's a huge deal because there was all this drama and questions from soccer fans and really just any sports watchers about what was going to happen to her because the women's soccer league couldn't figure out a way to get past their salary cap rules in order to keep her. And she was talking to all these European teams and there was a big expectation that she was going to leave the league. Finally, they changed one of the rules and kind of had this high impact player rule that's similar to what the MLS does in order to keep her. So it is a huge, massive deal. Trinity Rodman is just such an exciting player. She's this dynamic forward who can do everything, you know, score clutch goals. And it's just really fun to watch.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, Trinity Robins, great player. And, you know, a big reason why the U.S. women's National Team is as good as it is compared to the men, which are just impossible to watch. That was constant drama and argument last time.

[Franco Ordonez]

Go on.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, and so I think it's. I think it's a great thing that they were able to bring her back. Because, look, the. The women professional soccer league needs these kinds of tentpole players to be able to draw fans in. So I think it's a really good thing for them.

[Franco Ordonez]

And she's definitely going to be the face of the league of the nwsl. And I think it's really a great thing for the league. And they're going to now start calling. Before, it was called the Beckham Rule, which got David Beckham to play at mls, the Men's league. Now they're calling it the Rodham Rule. So I think it's pretty exciting.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Rodman rules used to mean something different back in the 90s because her father is Dennis Rodman, as we know. So at least she's not playing in North Korea.

[Ashley Lopez]

Does she have cool hair as well?

[Franco Ordonez]

She does have cool hair.

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's not quite her dad's flamboyance aesthetic, but.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's got some energy.

[Ashley Lopez]

All right. Domenico. I'm assuming we're gonna stick with sports. Cause it's you.

[Franco Ordonez]

What?

[Ashley Lopez]

Can't you let go of this one?

[Domenico Montanaro]

That is unappreciated violence. I have other hobbies.

[Franco Ordonez]

Like, we switched this really great.

[Domenico Montanaro]

The Drake and Kendrick Lamar Rap Battle.

[Carrie Johnson]

Oh, yeah.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Which, if it sounds like, oh, God, why are we talking about that? It's two years old. I agree. Drake.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Why are you still talking about that?

[Franco Ordonez]

Drake?

[Domenico Montanaro]

He can't let it go. He can't let it go. He has appealed his not like us lawsuit against umg. Like, what are you doing, bro? It's over. Stop. Right? He's like, oh, it's bad precedent. First of all, that's why you lost the rap battle. You're using words like precedent, okay? And Kendrick Lamar would be able to say it three different ways and better than you. You know, I mean, he warned him. You just, you know, look, I was saying this earlier to our producers. Like, if you are a pop star, you don't get into a rap battle with a rapper, right? It's. If you're a catcher, I'm going back to sports. You don't play center field, it's not gonna work, Right?

[Franco Ordonez]

Your knees are bad. You're not gonna catch the ball.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Not gonna happen. Right? Just stick to your thing. If Kendrick tried to make Taylor Swift songs, it wouldn't be good for Kevin. So just stay in your lane. Let it be over. You know, Chalk up your Spotify listens and just make your money. Go to Turks and tap out, man.

[Franco Ordonez]

These are some life lessons that all of our young listeners should be paying attention to as well.

[Ashley Lopez]

I will say Kendrick, all rappers, too. Like, does he like being embarrassed? I don't understand him.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Kendrick will not be embarrassed. He will take you to hell with him. As he said in his lyrics.

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, I think, like, I mean, I'm. I'm a millennial. So I think, like, the biggest rapper of my generation is definitely Kendrick Lamar. Like, I don't know why Drake would even.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Also continuing lawsuits. I mean, you know, in. In one of Kendrick's comebacks. Kendrick Lamar's comebacks, he warned him. He said, cease and desist on the. Like that record. What? You didn't like that record? He's like, back to back. I like that record. We're gonna get back to that for the record. Back to that for the record.

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, I want to stick with beefs Canadians and talk about my. Can't let it go.

[Domenico Montanaro]

What is it now?

[Ashley Lopez]

It's called heated rivalry. Have you guys heard about this?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Oh, yeah.

[Carrie Johnson]

Okay.

[Ashley Lopez]

This is like, I. I was very excited to talk about this.

[Franco Ordonez]

We're sticking with sports.

[Ashley Lopez]

We are sticking with sports. This is a gay hockey romance that is probably. I mean, we talked about Canadian exports. This is the biggest export out of Canada right now. It's this TV show from the streaming service cr. Anyways, the reason I bring this up, besides the fact that I have been part of the mass psychosis around this show, like super obsessed with it first since it came out several weeks ago, is that the stars of the show, Connor Story and Hudson Williams, have been selected as official torchbearers for the Olympic torch rally in Milan. So on February 6, we will be seeing them carry a torch, which I think is kind of insane because these two actors, for people who don't know what heated rivalry is, welcome, welcome from under the rock youk're under welcome to the Light. It is a gay hockey romance that was released on hbo, I think just before the holidays. It has been on that platform, like the biggest show for weeks now. The stars were of that show were waiting tables right before this came out. So they came out of nowhere and now are like the biggest stars in the industry. They were in the Golden Globes and stuff like that. But because the show is about hockey, I think, like now they're part of the ceremonies as well, which. Which is. I don't know. I think it's kind of crazy for two months ago for you to be someone that no one knows who you are, and now you're carrying a torch.

[Domenico Montanaro]

What I'm curious about is before all of this, Ashley came in with some violence in saying that she's interested in talking about her. Can't let it go because Franco and Domenico will introduce them to a part of the world they don't understand. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. We're pretty well traveled and globally minded. Thank you. Dominica. What are you talking about?

[Ashley Lopez]

I mean, I have a. I was assuming you guys haven't watched Heated Rivalry do not seem like the audience for this show.

[Franco Ordonez]

Well, I have.

[Ashley Lopez]

Am I wrong?

[Domenico Montanaro]

I have not watched it, but I am aware of that.

[Franco Ordonez]

I have not watched it either, but I am familiar with the excitement, the context.

[Ashley Lopez]

I take it back.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Anyway, Franco and I are going to go crawl back into our basic lives.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Thank you for joining me here on the cool side for a little bit. I appreciate it. All right, that's a wrap for today. And to make sure you don't miss an episode, please hit the follow button on your favorite podcast app. Our executive producer is Muthonia Muturi. Our editor is Rachel Bay. Our producers are KC Morrell and Bria Suggs. Special thanks to Dana Farrington and Christianity of Calimer. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Franco Ordonez]

I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Ashley Lopez]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.