NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: President Trump Asks Supreme Court To Uphold Tariffs

Date: September 8, 2025
Hosts: Ashley Lopez, Danielle Kurtzleben, Mara Liasson

Episode Overview

This episode explores the escalating legal and political battle over President Trump's sweeping use of tariffs—specifically, those imposed under the International Economic Emergency Powers Act (IEEPA). The Supreme Court is being asked to decide if Trump’s tariffs on certain countries’ goods are lawful after a series of lower court rulings found them illegal. The hosts dive into how this landed before the high court, what’s at stake for Trump's executive powers, and what the outcome could mean for the economy, politics, and U.S. trade relations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: How Tariffs Ended Up Before the Supreme Court

[01:03–02:40]

• Types of Tariffs:
  • Section 232 tariffs on goods (like steel and aluminum) are not at issue here.
  • Tariffs at issue are those enacted against specific countries using IEEPA powers (“IEPA tariffs”).
• Legal Challenge:
  • Businesses and state AGs sued, arguing IEEPA doesn’t authorize such tariffs.
  • The Court of International Trade and then a federal appeals court both ruled against Trump’s use of IEEPA for tariffs.
• Supreme Court Appeal:
  • The White House urges the Supreme Court to rule on whether the IEEPA supports these tariffs and if Congress improperly delegated legislative authority to the president.

Notable Quote:

"Trump imposed all of those tariffs… Then a handful of businesses and state attorneys general, they took the case to the Court of International Trade… And that court found…these tariffs are unlawful. They’re too sweeping."
— Danielle Kurtzleben [01:16]

2. Legal Questions Before the Court

[02:51–05:53]

• Key Issues:
  • IEEPA doesn’t specifically mention tariffs; tariffs are traditionally a Congressional power.
  • Historically, presidents have used IEEPA for sanctions, not tariffs.
  • The Supreme Court must determine if applying IEEPA this way is constitutional or if it constitutes legislative overreach by the executive.
• Possible Outcomes:
  • All or none of the tariffs could be struck down.
  • The ruling could be narrow, specifying some tariffs are acceptable and others not.
  • Potential for a procedural ruling (similar to the "Muslim ban" case), forcing Trump to find another path for tariffs.

Notable Quote:

"The biggest question… is whether the Supreme Court is willing to give Trump the additional expansion of the executive that he wants."
— Mara Liasson [03:35]

3. Political Stakes for Trump and the Court

[06:59–08:20]

• If Supreme Court sides with Trump:
  • Seen as huge political and legal victory, furthering the MAGA movement’s agenda.
• If Supreme Court rules against Trump:
  • Would represent the first meaningful judicial rebuke to Trump’s expansive view of executive power.
• Tariffs’ Party Politics:
  • Tariffs are less ideologically neat; some Republicans and business groups object, while Trump’s base supports them.

Notable Quote:

"If the court sides with Trump, huge victory… If they vote against him, it would be also huge that they were willing to break with Trump."
— Mara Liasson [07:10]

4. Economic Impact of the Tariffs—And Can Trump Do It Another Way?

[10:00–13:46]

• Tariff Revenue Up—But at a Cost:
  • Tariffs have raised $30 billion/month, up from $100 billion total in 2024.
  • This is government revenue collected from U.S. consumers paying higher prices.
  • Evidence does not show tariffs delivering on Trump’s promises to boost manufacturing.
  • Manufacturing has contracted for six straight months, and business owners report tariffs making things worse.
• Alternative Paths:
  • Trump could seek Congressional authorization for tariffs (unlikely, given his views on executive power and Congressional reluctance).
  • Other trade laws could offer narrow tariff options (lower percentages, time-limited).
• Political Risks:
  • Higher consumer prices could spur negative campaign ads and backlash in 2026.

Notable Quotes:

"Right now they're bringing in around $30 billion a month…in a few months…what it took in all of last year."
— Danielle Kurtzleben [11:55]

"Polls show that the American people don't like tariffs…they seem to understand that they're going to pay for them."
— Mara Liasson [13:46]

5. If the Tariffs Get Struck Down: Logistical and Legal Challenges

[14:17–15:55]

• Repaying Tariff Revenue:
  • Potentially requires businesses to individually file court claims—a massive logistical challenge.
  • Universal injunctions are no longer allowed; courts cannot issue blanket orders to repay all.
• Ongoing Uncertainty:
  • Country-by-country IEEPA tariffs remain in effect pending the Supreme Court’s decision.
  • Product-by-product Section 232 tariffs continue unaffected by these cases.

Notable Quote:

"This has raised legal questions about how paying back tariffs would work…a massive logistical headache."
— Danielle Kurtzleben [14:32]

6. Broader Picture and Trade Landscape

[15:48–17:07]

• No Formal Trade Agreements:
  • Trump’s tariffs and trade threats have mostly resulted in “handshake deals,” not binding treaties.
  • Announcements of foreign investment often have no formal documents or are disputed by partner countries.

Notable Quote:

"He has not yet made a single formal trade agreement on any of these tariffs. These are handshake deals…These are not treaties."
— Mara Liasson [16:16]

Memorable Moments

• Supreme Court's Relationship with Trump:
  • Continued reflection on how the current Court typically sides with Trump, but tariffs could scramble familiar ideological divisions. [07:34]
• Economic Reality vs. Political Rhetoric:
  • Despite large tariff revenues, evidence shows negative impacts for U.S. manufacturers and skepticism from mainstream economists about any future benefit. [12:32]
• Logistical Nightmare of Repaying Tariffs:
  • The administrative burden and legal confusion if courts require large-scale repayment of tariff revenue, highlighting the complexity of undoing expansive policies. [14:32]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:03] – Introduction to Trump’s tariff policy and legal background
• [02:51] – Constitutional and statutory questions before the Supreme Court
• [06:59] – Analysis of the political consequences for Trump and the Court
• [10:00] – Economic realities of the tariffs’ revenue and impact
• [13:46] – Public opinion and the (lack of) economic upside of tariffs
• [14:32] – Possible logistical chaos if tariffs are overturned
• [15:55] – Status summary: What tariffs are still in place today?
• [16:16] – Lack of formal trade deals; the ad hoc nature of Trump’s agreements

Tone & Language

• Conversational, thoughtful, and detailed, grounded in reporting and analysis but open about what’s uncertain or unprecedented.
• The reporters balance wonky legal insights with accessible political context, providing a well-rounded picture for listeners of any political background.

This episode offers a deep dive into not just the legal technicalities of the current Supreme Court challenge, but also the broader implications for presidential power, the actual and political impact of Trump's trade policies, and what the future might hold for U.S. trade relationships. The discussion is nuanced, marking the rare areas where ideology, law, and economics don’t fall into easily predictable patterns.