The NPR Politics Podcast:

"RFK Jr. Under Fire Following Vaccine Changes And CDC Shakeup" (September 9, 2025)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode unpacks the growing controversy surrounding Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (RFK Jr.), his sweeping changes to federal health agencies—especially vaccine policy—and the resulting political fallout. The hosts and reporters discuss the political reaction across party lines, the public health ramifications, and the emerging state-level responses.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Overview of Major Changes at HHS Under RFK Jr.

• Drastic Workforce Cuts: Kennedy reduced the Health and Human Services (HHS) federal workforce by 20,000—about a quarter of the staff.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "20,000 staff are now no longer working at HHS. That's about a quarter of the workforce." (01:26)
• Advisory Panel Shake-Up: Contrary to his earlier promise, Kennedy disbanded the CDC's vaccine advisory panel, replacing its 17 members with individuals who have a history of anti-vaccine rhetoric.
• MRNA Research Halt: Kennedy canceled $500 million in mRNA vaccine research.
• Shifting COVID-19 Vaccine Rules: Announced changes to COVID-19 vaccine eligibility without citing new supporting evidence.
• CDC Leadership Crisis: The newly installed CDC director was fired in a highly publicized dispute, which triggered the resignation of three top CDC center directors in protest.

2. Senate Hearing Fallout

• Bipartisan Skepticism Emerges: While Democrats vocally called for Kennedy’s resignation, Republican senators (including two physicians) also voiced concerns—though less forcefully.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "Republicans also had tough questions for Kennedy... a notable change in tone, I would say." (03:09)
• Political Calculus on the Right: The likelihood of Republicans joining calls for resignation is very low as long as Kennedy enjoys Trump’s backing.
  • Mara Liasson: "As long as Donald Trump supports somebody, they are not going to call for his resignation." (04:10)

3. Vaccine Policy Politics & Public Impact

• Kennedy's Focus on Vaccines: His attention to vaccine-related issues has overshadowed other stated health priorities, such as improving food quality and children's health habits.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "[Kennedy] would really like to be talking about the food supply and getting kids off screens…. But, yeah, vaccines has been such an aggressive area..." (05:21)
• Popularity Divide: Kennedy’s stance is popular with the MAGA base but highly unpopular with the broader public, where vaccine requirements for school children have strong bipartisan support.
  • Mara Liasson: "We have bipartisan majorities... who support requiring children to be vaccinated in order to attend school." (06:47)
• Potential Liability: Questions are raised about what happens if people who want vaccines can't access them; this could become a political problem if it visibly affects people’s lives.
• Immediate Impact: Reports are surfacing that people who want COVID-19 vaccines are already unable to get them.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "It is true that people who want the COVID-19 vaccine are unable to get it. We are hearing from people who... cannot get vaccinated." (09:13)

4. CDC Upheaval & Broader Public Health Impact

• CDC Leadership Turmoil: Rapid succession of appointments and dismissals at the CDC, culminating in mass resignations, is destabilizing the nation’s top public health agency.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "She got in the job and immediately started clashing with Kennedy over vaccines... She left after less than a month." (10:43)
• Impact of Staff Reductions: Scientists and entire units dedicated to critical health monitoring (e.g., black lung, lead prevention, food safety) have been slashed. The consequences remain to be seen, but remaining teams are stretched thin.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "I talked to somebody who works in a food safety lab who said their staff was cut nearly in half and they were still getting the same number of samples." (12:08)
• Public Health vs. Political Awareness: Massive cuts and chaos are only likely to become politically salient if they are linked to a visible public health failure.

5. State-Level Responses & Rising Polarization

• West Coast Alliance: In response to perceived federal abdication, California, Oregon, and Washington formed a health alliance to offer reliable vaccine information and public health coordination.
  • Selena Simmons-Duffin: "...the country is split when it comes to what vaccine policy and access should look like. ...We're starting to see that happen." (14:28)
• State Divergence: Blue states and red states are increasingly crafting divergent policies not only on vaccines but across a range of public health and social issues.
  • Mara Liasson: "Blue states and red states are like what, Mars and Venus." (15:34)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Roots of Political Resilience:
  Mara Liasson (04:11):
  "As long as Donald Trump supports somebody, they are not going to call for his resignation."
• On Vaccine Policy's Broader Appeal:
  Mara Liasson (06:51):
  "We have bipartisan majorities, big ones, who support requiring children to be vaccinated in order to attend school."
• On Real-World Consequences:
  Selena Simmons-Duffin (12:08):
  "I talked to somebody who works in a food safety lab who said that their staff was cut nearly in half and they were still getting the same number of samples. These cuts are going to affect people in real ways."
• On Growing Polarization:
  Mara Liasson (15:34):
  "Blue states and red states are like what, Mars and Venus."

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:23] – Overview of major HHS and CDC changes under RFK Jr.
• [03:09] – Bipartisan skepticism at the Senate hearing
• [04:10] – Analysis of Republican political dynamics concerning Kennedy
• [05:21] – Discussion of Kennedy’s overshadowed health priorities
• [06:47] – Breakdown of vaccine policy popularity and political risk
• [08:49] – The real-world impact as patients seek unavailable vaccines
• [10:43] – CDC leadership crisis and resignations
• [12:08] – Effects of staff reductions on public health services
• [14:28] – State-level alliances and rising polarization

Podcast Tone & Speaker Contributions

• The conversation is fact-driven, but energetic—with a blend of reported detail and crisp political analysis.
• Selena Simmons-Duffin provides expertise on health policy and the specific changes at HHS/CDC.
• Mara Liasson delivers broader political context and historical insight into partisan reactions.
• Ashley Lopez steers the discussion with focused, probing questions.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a comprehensive look at RFK Jr.’s controversial reforms at HHS and the CDC, the bipartisan but uneven pushback, the shifting political calculus, and the beginnings of a fragmented state-by-state approach to public health. The hosts outline both the immediate human impact and the broader, more abstract dangers of politicized public health policymaking, all underscored by rising national polarization.