Roundup: DOGE's Power Checked; Vance's Role Evolves

Summary

Podcast Summary: The NPR Politics Podcast Episode: Roundup: DOGE's Power Checked; Vance's Role Evolves
Release Date: March 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Sarah McCammon, Stephen Fowler, and Domenico Montanaro delve into the intricacies of the Trump administration's strategies to reduce federal expenditures through the entity known as DOGE. The discussion also explores the evolving role of Vice President JD Vance within the administration, juxtaposed with Elon Musk's prominent involvement in government affairs. Additionally, the episode features the recurring segment "Can't Let It Go," which touches on notable non-political events of the week.

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DOGE's Cost-Saving Claims Under Scrutiny

DOGE's Savings Assertions The podcast opens with a critical examination of DOGE's ambitious claims to have saved the federal government approximately $105 billion through various measures such as firing workers, terminating contracts, and reducing regulations. Stephen Fowler scrutinizes these figures, highlighting discrepancies between DOGE's reported savings and his own analysis.

Stephen Fowler [01:16]: "The actual, quote, unquote, savings that Doge has done by canceling all of these things is a fraction of what they have claimed. It's also a fraction of what the federal government spends and raises each fiscal year. And so we're really talking about pocket change compared to the trillions of dollars."

Transparency and Accountability Issues Fowler further explains the challenges in verifying DOGE's reported savings due to opaque practices, including the use of blanket purchase agreements that don't translate to real savings and the potential double-counting of terminated contracts.

Stephen Fowler [03:55]: "We don't know... there's no public accounting... But there are things like litigation costs for contracts. We know that some of the savings have been revised down because when you actually terminate or close out the contract, you still have to pay some of the money."

Real Estate Sales Controversy The discussion shifts to a recent incident where the government published and subsequently deleted a list of real estate holdings intended for sale. This move raises questions about DOGE's broader objectives and the administration's commitment to transparency.

Stephen Fowler [02:41]: "At the bigger picture level, Sarah, is just another example of this fast moving DOGE effort that does a lot of things and then quietly revises things when people point out errors and mistakes."

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JD Vance's Rising Influence in the Trump Administration

Vance vs. Past Vice Presidents Franco Ordonez contrasts JD Vance's active, confrontational role with the more subdued positions traditionally held by vice presidents like Mike Pence or Joe Biden.

Franco Ordonez [08:12]: "Vance has not played that role of being in the shadows. He's really taken on this unique role of being a provocateur... Trump needs no help in playing an attack dog."

Public Confrontations and Political Ambitions Vance's outspoken criticisms, such as accusing Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of undermining peace talks and challenging the UK's free speech record, signal his intent to position himself prominently within the administration and possibly eye higher political aspirations.

Franco Ordonez [09:40]: "He has future ambitions that are quite large. And... Vance needs to kind of take steps to show that he can carry Trump's mantle going forward."

Balancing Act with Elon Musk The hosts discuss the dynamic between Vance and Elon Musk, noting that while Musk's visibility in government roles is high, Vance seeks to carve out his own space without conflicting with Musk's influence.

Domenico Montanaro [13:47]: "I don't see it as at odds. Again, I think that Musk is another spoke in that wheel. Vance is another one."

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Trump's Mixed Signals on NATO

In addition to internal administration dynamics, the episode covers President Trump's fluctuating stance on NATO. Recently, Trump expressed skepticism about the U.S.'s role in the military alliance, questioning the commitment of NATO allies to their defense spending obligations.

Franco Ordonez [14:53]: "Trump again is raising doubts about... NATO's mutual defense pact. He called it, quote, common sense."

This inconsistency complicates the U.S.'s position within NATO, as Trump oscillates between supporting Article 5 obligations and demanding increased financial contributions from allies.

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Can't Let It Go: Celebrating Dolly Parton's Legacy and the Stick Nation Craze

Dolly Parton's Tribute The "Can't Let It Go" segment pays homage to Dolly Parton, who recently lost her husband, Carl Dean. The hosts reflect on their enduring relationship and Parton's role as a unifying figure in a polarized society.

Sarah McCammon [17:20]: "Dolly is someone who... has managed to be a unifying figure and has done so much for so many people through her charity work."

Stick Nation Phenomenon Franco Ordonez introduces "Stick Nation," a viral movement where individuals worldwide showcase unique sticks they've found. While some hosts express mild annoyance, the segment highlights the quirky yet widespread nature of the trend.

Franco Ordonez [17:56]: "Stick Nation. It's this worldwide movement where people post essentially the cool sticks they find all around the world."

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Lighthearted Moments: A Toddler's 911 Call for Donuts

The episode concludes with a heartwarming story about a two-year-old in Moore, Oklahoma, who inadvertently made a 911 call requesting "emergency donuts." The incident ended with the police delivering a box of Dunkin Donuts to the delighted child.

Sarah McCammon [20:36]: "There's a 2 year old in Moore, Oklahoma who called 911 asking for emergency donuts."

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Conclusion

This episode of The NPR Politics Podcast offers a comprehensive analysis of the Trump administration's cost-cutting measures through DOGE, the assertive role of Vice President JD Vance, and the complex interplay with influential figures like Elon Musk. The inclusion of lighter segments like "Can't Let It Go" provides a balanced perspective, blending serious political discourse with human-interest stories.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Stephen Fowler [01:16]: "We're really talking about pocket change compared to the trillions of dollars."
• Stephen Fowler [02:41]: "Another example of this fast moving DOGE effort that does a lot of things and then quietly revises things..."
• Franco Ordonez [08:12]: "Vance has not played that role of being in the shadows..."
• Domenico Montanaro [13:47]: "Musk is another spoke in that wheel. Vance is another one."
• Franco Ordonez [14:53]: "Trump again is raising doubts about... NATO's mutual defense pact."
• Sarah McCammon [17:20]: "Dolly is someone who... has managed to be a unifying figure..."
• Sarah McCammon [20:36]: "There's a 2 year old in Moore, Oklahoma who called 911 asking for emergency donuts."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented in the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the topics covered without needing to reference the original transcript.

Transcript

[Franco Ordonez]

This message comes from Carvana. Sell your car the convenient way, enter your license plate or vin, answer a few questions and get a real offer in seconds. Go to Carvana.com today.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hi, this is Alison and I am making a pumpkin applesauce cake for my dog Snow Cone's 5th birthday.

[Sarah McCammon]

This podcast was recorded at 12:24pm Eastern Time on Friday, March 7, 2025.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I'm pretty sure my dog is going to be hungry again.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right, here's the show. That's a well treated pup right there.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Maybe she can make a snow cone for her dog, Pumpkin Apple. You never know. It's a Friday.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Stephen Fowler]

I'm Stephen Fowler. I cover politics.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

It's time for the weekly roundup. We're starting with the Trump administration's continuing efforts to reshape the federal government through the entity known as Doge. Stephen, you've been covering DOGE very closely. DOGE is claiming to have saved taxpayers billions upon billions of dollars already, but your analysis shows it's less than what they're claiming. Just walk us through that.

[Stephen Fowler]

Right. So the doge.govsavings page lists a wall of receipts that that's only a few of the things that they've done to save money. They have this top line number that they claim as of right now, it's about $105 billion that they say that they've saved through things like firing workers and terminating contracts and decreasing regulations and other things. We can't verify that number, but we can look at these receipts. And I've been tracking the contracts that Doge says agencies have canceled and terminated and saved a bunch of money for. It turns out that number is also inflated because Doge doing things like counting things that are known as blanket purchase agreements, which act as a line of credit. So like canceling it doesn't actually save you any money. They've done things like double and triple count things. So all of that to say is that the actual, quote, unquote, savings that Doge has done by canceling all of these things is a fraction of what they have claimed. It's also a fraction of what the federal government spends and raises each fiscal year. And so we're really talking about pocket change compared to the trillions of dollars.

[Sarah McCammon]

Congress handles, lots swirling around lots of claims from Doge. One thing that happened this week was the Government published and then deleted a list of government real estate holdings it was purportedly looking to sell. How does that fall in line with doge's larger goals?

[Stephen Fowler]

Well, in addition to the contract, Sarah, there's also been lease terminations that DOGE is sharing Receipts of. Those are buildings that the government leases and rents out to do things like have Social Security offices or Bureau of Indian affairs health offices or the IRS Taxpayer Assistance offices. They have been canceling a lot of those left and right. And we're still looking at all of those receipts to see what has been canceled or not. But on the other side, the government owns a lot of big buildings. And the General Services Administration posted a list to say, hey, we've identified a bunch of buildings that we think are not core to government operations. And looking at that list, it included things like the Justice Department building, the Department of Agriculture's headquarters, and a bunch of other huge government buildings in Washington and across the country. And then that list got pared down and then that list got deleted altogether. And so at the practical level, we still don't know what government buildings might be sold, who might buy them. And at the bigger picture level, Sarah, is just another example of this fast moving DOGE effort that does a lot of things and then quietly revises things when people point out errors and mistakes.

[Sarah McCammon]

I mean, Stephen, do we know how much DOGE is costing the government?

[Stephen Fowler]

We don't. Part of it is because DOGE is inside of the Executive Office of the President in the White House, so we can't file Freedom of Information act requests for see things, and there's no public accounting. Also, some people like Musk are special government employees, and they don't necessarily get paid any money from the budget. So there's no salary list of things to go through. But there are things like litigation costs for contracts. We know that some of the savings have been revised down because when you actually terminate or close out the contract, you still have to pay some of the money.

[Sarah McCammon]

And Steven, you made another important point earlier, which is that all of this, whether it's cutting jobs, selling off buildings, terminating leases, that can only save so much money because that is just a small portion relatively of the government's overall budget. What, if anything, can DOGE do about really the biggest expenditures for the government, things like entitlements, defense, well, DOGE itself.

[Stephen Fowler]

Can'T actually do anything about those things. And really a lot of the other things they've done. There's the argument people make that, you know, it should all be handled by Congress. Congress is the one that does the budget. Congress is the one that has to do a spending plan next week to keep the government open. And when we are talking about the scope and scale, the amount of money that the federal government spends on salaries is a fraction of what it spends on things like Social Security, Medicare, national defense. So there is a big part of the federal budget that can't be done by Musk and his team.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, there have been lots of questions about who's really in charge here, questions from agency heads about how much authority they have versus Elon Musk and Doge's power to hire and fire. President Trump said in a Cabinet meeting this week that Musk isn't in charge. But what do we know about the reality of the situation?

[Stephen Fowler]

In that meeting, Trump said that he told agency heads that they're the ones in charge of figuring out who stays or goes at their agencies. He said, I don't want to see a big cut where a lot of good people are cut. I want the Cabinet members to keep the good people and the people that aren't doing a good job, that are unreliable, that don't show up to work, et cetera. Those people can be cut. And then he added, if they can cut, it's better, and if they don't cut, then Elon will do the cutting. And so in some ways, that does make a distinction from how Musk and Doge and Trump have kind of explained things in the past few weeks of the administration. It puts more of the onus on agency heads to run their agency instead of this nebulous Doge entity. But in other ways, it just adds more confusion because Trump has said that Musk is the one in charge of restructuring. There are lawsuits about Musk being in charge of restructuring and saying that he's leading things and that he's the deciding factor in all of these cuts and slashes and reductions. So for all intents and purposes, you won't find very many people who disagree that Musk is overseeing Doge, whatever that means.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, I think Trump saying the scalpel, not the hatchet approach, is just Trump seeing the politics on the horizon and what people are already complaining about in the Republican Conference about what they see as sort of arbitrary cuts across the board and then seeing hundreds, if not thousands of people then given their jobs back. So Trump is trying to hit a reset a little bit on the politics and be able to avoid any of the potential political consequences for himself.

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, Stephen, thanks for being here. Thanks for all of your good reporting. Thank you it's time for a break. We'll have more in just a moment.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hey, it's hey, Martinez. I work on a news show and.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, the news can feel like a.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Lot on any given day, but you just can't ignore la Noticias when important world changing events are happening. So that is where the Up first podcast comes in. Every single morning in under 15 minutes.

[Franco Ordonez]

We take the news and boil it down to three essential stories so you can keep up without feeling stressed out.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Listen to the upverse podcast from npr.

[Sarah McCammon]

And we're back with NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Hey, Franco.

[Franco Ordonez]

Hi there.

[Sarah McCammon]

You have been reporting on the evolving role of Vice President JD Vance that he's playing in the Trump administration. What's different about Vance versus other past VPs?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, certainly in recent past VPs, I mean, they've largely kind of remained in the shadows. You can take former Vice President Pence, you can take former Vice President Biden when he was vice president to Obama. I mean, Vance has not played that role of being in the shadows. He's really taken on kind of this unique role of being a provocateur. Whether it's in Oval Office meetings, whether it's in speeches, he has really gone on kind of an attack in many ways. Big example, obviously, is when Vance accused Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and the Oval Offices of being disrespectful and essentially helping blow up some of the peace talks. He also questioned the UK's record on free speech in front of the British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer. And then he went to the Munich Security conference where he told European leaders that their greatest threat is not Russia or China, but it's the threat from within. And I'll just add, you know, there have been vice presidents who have kind of played like an attack role kind of position in, you know, a White House. But in those cases, they've often been a vice president who's kind of playing that role in order to allow the president to kind of stay above the fray, kind of not be political. And that's obviously not the case here. Trump needs no help in playing an attack dog.

[Sarah McCammon]

No. And you see Vance jumping in and backing Trump up, kind of almost in a wingman kind of role.

[Franco Ordonez]

Absolutely.

[Sarah McCammon]

At the same time, though, while Vance's speech at the Munich security conference recently made a lot of news, you know, the former Vice President Kamala Harris also went to Munich. Mike Pence went to Munich. Is it really all that different?

[Franco Ordonez]

So definitely, Harris, Pence, they Both went to Munich. The difference is that they kind of paid tribute to the allies. They talked about their shared priorities, they talked about the things that they had in common. But that's not what Vance did. I mean, he really scolded European leaders. He even said after expressing sympathy for the attack in Munich that he was afraid that might be his last applause line. Because after that, he basically told European leaders that they're out of touch with their people and that that was something that the United States could not help them with. And when I spoke to attendees after, I mean, they told me that there were tears in the room.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Domenico, one of the things that's interesting here is Trump, of course, is serving non consecutive terms and he has a different vice president this time. Usually when a president is in his second term, you see the vice president taking a more elevated role. Sometimes you even see the president grooming the vice president to run for the nomination the next time around. Do you see Vance angling for prominence here with an eye toward his own political future?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Of course, any politician is doing that all the time, everywhere you look. So J.D. vance is no different. And of course, everyone knows that Trump is barred from running again in 2028. So there's gonna huge competition on the right and left for who's gonna be the guy or woman who leads the parties going forward. So Vance is clearly trying to angle. There's no one who more embodies the change of Trump 10 years ago versus Trump now. There was no manosphere back then, and all these podcasts catered toward kind of youngish men. JD Vance is very online. He's very much in that podcast world. He's in that sort of, you know, tough guy mentality. And a lot of them cast doubt on Ukraine and whether the United States should be giving more money to places like Ukraine. And I think in that meeting, Vance was somebody who doesn't really like Volodymyr Zelensky all that much, the president of Ukraine, and was looking for an opportunity, had a moment and was able to say something and stand up for what he believes to prove a point. And Donald Trump was right there listening. Trump likes to see his people sort of spar with other people. Trump is always the sort of center in the wheel, and everyone else around him are sort of just the spokes feeding into him.

[Franco Ordonez]

I think that's where Vance has to be so careful. I mean, there's clearly he has future ambitions that are quite large. And I think with a vice president always, you're always going to talk about Them being the heir apparent. I think the attention on Vance is so much higher because Trump only has four years that he is allowed to serve. So Vance needs to kind of take steps to kind of show that he can carry Trump's mantle going forward. At the same time, it is Trump, and he's gotta be careful to not overshadow Trump, because Trump definitely wants to be the center of attention. We have seen that over and over again. So I think the Vance and his team are gonna be very careful that even now when they attack, they're gonna do it carefully to make sure that they're always in lockstep with the president. And I think the Zelenskyy meeting is an example of that. Vance did not separate himself from Trump. He kind of echo, as you said, Domenico, he kind of embodied what Trump was saying.

[Sarah McCammon]

We talked in the first half of the podcast about Elon Musk and his huge role in the government so far. He's so front and center. He's in Oval Office meetings and Cabinet meetings on Air Force One and in many ways getting some of the attention that maybe a vice president would have, especially early in a new administration. How is Musk's work at odds, if at all, with the role the vice president might play?

[Domenico Montanaro]

I don't see it as at odds. Again, I think that Musk is another spoke in that wheel. Vance is another one. Marco Rubio. Is anybody else who's trying to sort of angle to get into the sun, that is Donald Trump for them.

[Franco Ordonez]

I mean, I definitely think that that's another reason that Vance is kind of needing to step out of the shadow. I mean, you guys just talked a whole segment about the work that Musk is doing. There's been so much news about Musk in Oval Office meetings, on Marine One, on Air Force One, bringing his son to the Oval. I mean, there's been endless stories about Musk, and only recently are we hearing more about Vance. And I think for Vance, if he has future ambitions, if he wants to be the heir apparent of Trump, which seems very clearly that he does, I think he needs to kind of step out of Musk's shadow. And I think this, what's happening these past week, these past two weeks, are an example of that.

[Sarah McCammon]

One more thing before we take a break, back to Trump, because it always comes back to Trump. Franco, the president made some news yesterday about NATO and what he sees as the US Role in the military alliance. What happened?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, Trump again is raising doubts about, you know, NATO's mutual defense pack. You know, Trump told reporters at the White House that the US May not defend NATO allies if they have not met their spending requirements as outlined by the alliance. He called it, quote, common sense. Now, Trump has, you know, and let's be clear, Trump has regularly sent mixed signals about U.S. support for NATO. You know, he's long pushed allies to spend more on defense, saying that the US Is carrying too much of the burden. But, you know, just a week ago, he said he would support what's called Article 5, and that's the requirement that members come to each other's defense if attacked, but that he didn't think there was any reason for it. So he keeps going back and forth. And it's very hard to kind of, you know, keep tabs on, you know, where he stands on this issue. Very important issue.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right. One more break. And when we come back, it's time for Can't LET IT go. Welcome back. It's time for can't let it Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about politics or otherwise. I'll start with myself. Mine is otherwise. And I've got to say, mine is a little sad, but it's also sweet. You probably heard Dolly Parton lost her beloved husband Carl Dean earlier this week. They were married for almost six decades. They'd been together since she was 18 years old. Now, Carl, unlike Dolly, was a very private person and a regular guy by all accounts, and very supportive of his very famous wife. So I woke up this morning and I saw that Dolly had posted a gorgeous new song to her Instagram called if you hadn't been there. Do not listen to it if you're not okay with crying. But it was just a simple and lovely tribute to this incredible relationship they had. And one of the things I appreciate about that relationship is that so often, especially in that generation, it was the woman who was the invisible partner in the wind beneath her man's wings. But Dolly and Carl had it the other way around. And I think that's really beautiful. And, you know, Dolly is someone who in this very polarized society has managed to kind of be a unifying figure and has done so much for so many people through her charity work. And so in a way, you know, I think you could attribute that gift that Dolly has been to so many people to her husband, Carl, love all things Dolly.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well. And he, you know, really didn't like the spotlight at all. And it's just so interesting. He was so private. I thought it was funny. I heard an interview with her, you know, asking about Carl and, you know, she was asked, is he a Dolly Parton music fan? And she said, not really.

[Sarah McCammon]

I think he was a Dolly Parton fan.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Right? That's what she said. That. But he was a Dolly Parton fan. But he loves me.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right, Franco, I'll go to you next.

[Franco Ordonez]

My can't let it go is something that I was checking even this morning online. Are you guys familiar with Stick Nation?

[Domenico Montanaro]

No. Is this about stickball?

[Franco Ordonez]

Better.

[Sarah McCammon]

I'm picturing stick figures.

[Franco Ordonez]

Stick Nation. It is this worldwide movement where people post essentially the cool sticks they find all around the world. I mean, it's.

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, sounds like dogs would like this website.

[Franco Ordonez]

You may be mistaken. Here's a little sample. What's up, Stick Nation? I had this beautiful stick laying around in my parents house.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hello, Stick Nation.

[Sarah McCammon]

I'm here with this magical goose.

[Stephen Fowler]

Duck head of the forest.

[Franco Ordonez]

Hello, Stick Nation.

[Domenico Montanaro]

We are here in the Huey Wash Mountains in Peru. Hello, sticknation. My name is Raquel. I found this cool stick on an island in Sweden.

[Franco Ordonez]

Now, all those were from their Stick Nation YouTube channel. I mean, how many times have you guys been in the woods or whatever and just picked up a stick and said, how cool is this?

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah.

[Franco Ordonez]

And that's what this is all about. And it's just endless, as you heard, endless. Just people finding sticks and it's always in the coolest locales everywhere. I just have kind of like this vision of, you know, going to the White House and finding some stick, you know, in the manicured yard and doing a Stick Nation. But unfortunately, the White House is a little bit too manicured.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, I have an instinct to go break some sticks. Now. I don't. I'm glad this warms your heart, but I just. I don't know if you can hear the eyes rolling in the back of my head. I'm just like, jeez, good lord. Sticks. I mean, come on, guys. Like, yeah, is this fun? I mean, walking around. Look at this stick. I have guys like, hey, guys. Hey, guys, look at my. Look at the stick. Isn't it cool? Come on, go do something else.

[Franco Ordonez]

Oh, man. Stick Nation. You heard it right there from Domenico Montanaro. Love you guys.

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, I like it even if you don't.

[Franco Ordonez]

Thank you.

[Sarah McCammon]

Domenico. What is yours, Domenico? What can't you let go?

[Domenico Montanaro]

I can't let go of a phone call that was placed to 911 by a toddler.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hello? More991.

[Domenico Montanaro]

What?

[Franco Ordonez]

Hello?

[Sarah McCammon]

Yes, do you have an emergency.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Donut.

[Sarah McCammon]

Donuts I want donuts.

[Domenico Montanaro]

High five, baby.

[Sarah McCammon]

Are you gonna share your donuts? Hello? Can I talk to you?

[Domenico Montanaro]

So if you couldn't hear it there, there's a 2 year old in Moore, Oklahoma who called 911 asking for emergency donuts.

[Sarah McCammon]

Sometimes it's an emergency.

[Domenico Montanaro]

All of us sometimes want those emergency donuts. The best part of this story is that the next day the police showed up with a box of Dunkin Donuts for the little boy. And he was just ear to ear. Smile. So apparently the parents gave him an old cell phone to play with that had no connection to like Heidata cell service. But they still can make 911 calls pretty interestingly if the battery is in. And that's what the kid did. Just playing around with it.

[Franco Ordonez]

I was about to like give some PSA that you should not be encouraging little kids to call. But then the police bring donuts the next day. I mean like.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah. And we should note the tape of that 911 call is from the Moore Okl department. I was just gonna say it's cute, but also like, what is that reinforcing? Really? Is this kid gonna do it again now?

[Franco Ordonez]

Thank you, Sarah.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, as a parent, I have to be a bit of a curmudgeon.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I thought you were gonna criticize terrible eating habits.

[Sarah McCammon]

No, no.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, you like donuts.

[Sarah McCammon]

I like donuts.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Who doesn't like a donut?

[Franco Ordonez]

I like the old fashioned donut.

[Sarah McCammon]

I like the Boston creams.

[Franco Ordonez]

Oh, those are good too.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, I think we're gonna leave it there. That's a wrap for the week. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Casey Morell edits the podcast. Our producers are Bria Suggs and Kelly Wessinger. Special thanks to Christian. Dev KALAMER. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Franco Ordonez]

I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Franco Ordonez]

And Stick Nation Curmudgeon.

[Domenico Montanaro]

By the way, blah, whatever.