Roundup: Immigration Rulings; DOGE & Social Security Data

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast: Roundup – Immigration Rulings; DOGE & Social Security Data
Release Date: April 11, 2025

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1. Immigration Rulings: The Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia Case

The episode opens with a deep dive into a significant immigration case involving Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador. The Supreme Court recently ruled that the government must facilitate his release from custody, implying that the Trump administration may need to return him to the United States.

Key Points:

• Supreme Court Decision: The ruling mandates the government to release Garcia from custody, challenging the Trump administration's stance.
• White House Response: The administration maintains that Garcia is currently in El Salvador's custody and refuses to bring him back. Stephen Miller, a top aide and immigration hardliner, interpreted the decision as a reinforcement that Garcia remains under El Salvador's sovereignty.

Notable Quotes:

• Asma Khalid [04:05]: "This is a crucial test of whether the Trump administration will follow the Supreme Court's decision."
• Tamara Keith [05:57]: "We could safely call that a constitutional crisis if the Trump administration ultimately ends up fully defying the Supreme Court."

Discussion Highlights:

• Garcia entered the US in 2019 without legal status, later receiving protection from deportation due to safety concerns in El Salvador. He is married to a US citizen with a son in Maryland.
• The White House labels Garcia as part of a transnational gang (MS-13), a claim he denies.
• The episode underscores the potential constitutional crisis arising from the administration's defiance of the Supreme Court.

2. Polling and Political Implications of Trump's Immigration Policies

The hosts explore President Trump's handling of immigration, noting its centrality in his political agenda and public approval.

Key Points:

• Trump's Immigration Stance: Campaigned on comprehensive deportations, though actual policies have been more targeted.
• Public Opinion: An AP NORC poll indicates Trump's approval for immigration policies stands at 49%, lagging behind his approval on the economy. However, Republican support remains strong despite high-profile cases like Garcia's.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Fowler [06:34]: "Deportations are not just a Republican presidential thing. It would happen during President Biden and President Obama."
• Tamara Keith [08:38]: "President Trump's number one issue. According to a new AP NORC poll, he gets a 49% approval on his handling of immigration."

Discussion Highlights:

• The administration shifts focus towards "self-deportation," aiming to encourage undocumented immigrants to leave voluntarily by creating an atmosphere of fear and discomfort.
• Despite mixed outcomes and controversial cases, immigration remains a cornerstone of Trump's messaging and political strategy.

3. DOGE and Social Security Data: Antonio Gracias and Voter Fraud Claims

The conversation transitions to concerns surrounding DOGE staffers' access to Social Security data, particularly focusing on Antonio Gracias, a DOGE staffer embedded within the Social Security Administration.

Key Points:

• Antonio Gracias's Claims: He alleges that DOGE has identified non-citizens with Social Security numbers registering to vote, suggesting widespread voter fraud.
• Expert Rebuttal: Social Security and election experts dismiss these claims, citing the difficulty in matching voter rolls with Social Security data due to insufficient granularity.
• Legal Challenges: Multiple lawsuits are underway questioning DOGE's access to sensitive data, with a temporary restraining order currently blocking DOGE staffers from accessing Social Security information.

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Fowler [10:54]: "Antonio Gracias is a billionaire... embedded in the Social Security Administration... making claims about non citizens registering to vote."
• Tamara Keith [14:28]: "President Trump and his Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, are... shifting to a more recent emphasis on self deportation."

Discussion Highlights:

• DOGE's purported mission includes enhancing efficiency within Social Security, such as cleaning the death master file and preventing fraud, which ostensibly should not involve voter registration issues.
• The discrepancy between executive orders promoting data sharing and DOGE's current activities raises questions about the initiative's scope and oversight.

4. The Role of DOGE Staffers in the Federal Government

Further exploration reveals the unclear affiliation and authority of DOGE staffers like Gracias within federal agencies, highlighting the opaque nature of their access to government data.

Key Points:

• DOGE's Data Access: DOGE staffers reportedly have access to extensive federal datasets, including personal and financial information from Social Security.
• Legal and Ethical Concerns: The ongoing lawsuit and restraining orders indicate significant legal pushback against DOGE's data practices.
• Government Transparency: The episode criticizes the lack of clarity regarding DOGE staffers' roles, affiliations, and the extent of their data access.

Notable Quotes:

• Asma Khalid [12:23]: "Doge staffers have access to a tremendous amount of government data... unclear on how they're exactly affiliated with the government."

Discussion Highlights:

• The arrival of figures like Elon Musk in uninvited cabinet meetings juxtaposes with the mysterious presence of DOGE staffers, suggesting a broader trend of privatization and elite influence within government operations.

5. "Can't Let It Go": Personal Anecdotes and Cultural Observations

In the lighter segment, the hosts share personal stories and cultural observations that stood out during the week.

Key Points:

• President Trump's Obsession with Water Pressure: A humorous take on Trump's executive order aimed at improving shower water pressure, reflecting his attention to mundane yet relatable issues.
• Fortnite and Sabrina Carpenter Collaboration: Stephen Fowler discusses the unexpected crossover event in Fortnite featuring pop star Sabrina Carpenter, highlighting the game's cultural impact.
• Loch Ness Underwater Camera Discovery: Tamara Keith recounts the discovery of an old underwater camera in Loch Ness, sparking curiosity about the legendary monster.

Notable Quotes:

• Asma Khalid [19:12]: "Mine is actually political this week. I have a pet peeve... about water pressure."
• Tamara Keith [22:55]: "There's nothing really to back up why this particular person is using this set of data in this way at Social Security."

Discussion Highlights:

• These anecdotes provide a respite from heavy political discourse, showcasing the hosts' ability to connect with the audience through shared experiences and lighthearted topics.

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Conclusion

This episode of The NPR Politics Podcast offers a comprehensive examination of pressing immigration issues, the controversial role of DOGE staffers in federal data access, and the broader political implications of the Trump administration's policies. Through detailed reporting and insightful discussions, the hosts illuminate the complexities and potential constitutional challenges arising from current governmental actions. Additionally, the lighter segments provide a balanced perspective, enhancing the podcast's engaging and informative nature.

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Notable Timestamped Quotes:

• Asma Khalid [04:05]: "This is a crucial test of whether the Trump administration will follow the Supreme Court's decision."
• Tamara Keith [05:57]: "We could safely call that a constitutional crisis if the Trump administration ultimately ends up fully defying the Supreme Court."
• Stephen Fowler [10:54]: "Antonio Gracias is a billionaire... embedded in the Social Security Administration..."
• Asma Khalid [19:12]: "Mine is actually political this week. I have a pet peeve... about water pressure."

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This summary aims to provide a clear and comprehensive overview of the episode, catering to listeners seeking to understand the key discussions without tuning into the full podcast.

Transcript

[Asma Khalid]

99% of the US population lives within listening range of at least one public media station. And everyone can listen to NPR podcasts free of charge. That means you get completely unpaywalled access to stories, prize winning reporting, and shows that represent the voices in every corner of the country. Hear the bigger picture every day on npr.

[Tamara Keith]

Whoa.

[Stephen Fowler]

Hi, this is Andy. I'm sitting next to a pond in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia listening to the sounds of spring. But you're listening to the NPR Politics.

[Asma Khalid]

Podcast, which was recorded at 12:38pm Eastern Time on Friday, April 11th of 2025.

[Stephen Fowler]

Things may have changed by the time you hear it, or maybe they haven't. Why don't you listen and find out? Okay. Enjoy the show.

[Tamara Keith]

I feel a little more at peace.

[Asma Khalid]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

[Stephen Fowler]

I'm Stephen Fowler. I cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House.

[Asma Khalid]

And after a wild, long week of politics, it is finally Friday, which means it is time for our Friday news roundup. Well, Tam, we need to start with immigration news because there has been some major developments in just the last 24 hours with the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia. And just to remind folks, he is the Maryland man who the government said was mistakenly deported to El Salvador, and he has been in this legal battle to return to the United States. Last night, the Supreme Court weighed in and said the government must facilitate his, quote, release from custody. That sounds like the Trump administration needs to bring him back to the United States. But, Tam, what are you hearing from the White House in response?

[Tamara Keith]

The White House position for some time now has been that Mr. Abrego Garcia is in El Salvador now. He is a citizen of El Salvador and he is in prison in El Salvador through an error. But he's there now and they can't and won't bring him back. And remember that while he initially entered the US without being granted legal status in 2019, a federal judge granted him protection from being deported because of concerns for his safety if he were to return to El Salvador. He is married to a US Citizen and has a son who lives in Maryland as well. Stephen Miller, the top aide to the president and immigration hardliner, tweeted last night that the Supreme Court rejected the lower court and made clear that a district judge cannot exercise Article 2 Foreign affairs powers. And then he adds, the illegal alien terrorist is in the custody and control of a sovereign foreign nation that is El Salvador. So his interpretation of the Supreme Court's.

[Asma Khalid]

Decision different than a lot of the other interpretations I'm seeing of that decision.

[Tamara Keith]

To be clear, it is quite different. But essentially that is the White House position that he's gone.

[Asma Khalid]

I do want to ask you more about the El Salvador connection here. The government of El Salvador has agreed to take in and detain deportees from the United States. And the President of El Salvador is actually coming here to Washington, D.C. next week to visit and meet with President Trump. We've talked a lot about how President Trump views bilateral relationships and policy as transactional. So can he or will he, would he, you know, affect any sort of leverage on the country of El Salvador?

[Tamara Keith]

Can and would are two very different questions. President Bukele in El Salvador has gladly received these prisoners into this high level secure prison. The United States is paying millions of dollars for El Salvador to take in these deportees and put them in prison. It includes a lot of people from Venezuela who the US Government claims are part of a transnational gang that they have now called a terrorist organization. The same with some people from El Salvador who were also deported and were alleged to be members of MS.13. In fact, the White House says that Abrego Garcia is a member of Ms. 13, though he denies that and has strenuously denied that in court filings. So, so the President of El Salvador is coming to the United States. President Trump could say bring him back or we won't pay you for housing all of these prisoners. But clearly President Trump and his White House are saying many ways over, they don't have an interest in bringing him back. They don't want to bring him back, and they are calling him a terrorist. This is a very interesting drama that we are going to see play out. Sort of a head to head matchup between the Trump administration and the courts. And also just seeing President Bukele in the Oval Office with President Trump where inevitably they will be asked about this case. That'll happen on Monday.

[Asma Khalid]

This does strike me as being bigger than the single case of this Maryland man. It is a crucial test, I think, of whether the Trump administration will follow the Supreme Court's decision. I mean, it was striking to hear you talk about the ways in which Stephen Miller is interpreting the court's decision. Because to be clear, as we said earlier, the Supreme Court weighed in and said that the government must facilitate his release from custody. And so my question is, you know, if the Trump administration doesn't follow that guidance, are there any consequences?

[Tamara Keith]

I don't know the answer to that question, But I think that we could safely call that a constitutional crisis if the Trump administration ultimately ends up fully defying the Supreme Court and the lower courts. We aren't quite there yet, but, you know, we keep watching and many of these cases are sort of on the precipice of that.

[Asma Khalid]

Stephen, I want to bring you into the conversation here. Donald Trump campaigned on immigration and he believes he has a mandate to carry out deportations. I'm curious what you are seeing about how his actual policies are playing out.

[Stephen Fowler]

Well on the campaign trail. It was the number one issue that he campaigned on. He vowed to have the largest ever deportation in American history when he took office. That hasn't played out in that exact way. There have been more targeted approaches to certain categories of people, but it is still this visual of deporting violent criminals from the country with a focus on Trend. Aragua and MS.13 and other gangs and people voted for Trump. You could argue for his immigration stances. Deportations are not just a Republican presidential thing. It would happen during President Biden and President Obama. But Trump's messaging around immigration and about deportations and removing people from the country that he says are harming the country is something that resonated during the campaign trail and has been a major threat theme during his first few months in the return to office. I mean, the White House social media account sharing memes about people that they've deported, people that they've sent on planes to foreign countries. And so, you know, it is still a central part of his message, even though there has also been the high profile court cases and the examples of people being mistakenly deported and people with no ties to gangs, according to court filings and detailing inhumane treatment. So some would say that is kind of baked into the message and the mandate that Trump says he has.

[Tamara Keith]

So what I would just add to that is in terms of polling, immigration is President Trump's number one issue. According to a new AP NORC poll, he gets a 49% approval on his handling of immigration. That's underwater. Doesn't sound great. It is still far stronger than the way people are assessing his handling of the economy, for instance. And Republicans are off the charts happy with his handling of immigration despite some.

[Asma Khalid]

Of these high profile cases. That's really interesting.

[Tamara Keith]

Despite some of these high profile cases. But what I'll say is also President Trump and his Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, are in some ways shifting to a more recent emphasis on self deportation. You know, a big part of this is they want people to be scared. They want people, they want to make it uncomfortable and they want people to leave. And so they are talking a lot now about leaving, saying just go self deport. And that's how they might get to the mass deportation that they're promising.

[Asma Khalid]

All right. Well, let's take a quick break. Lots more in a moment.

[Stephen Fowler]

Wait, wait, don't tell me. Fresh Air up first, NPR News. Now, Planet Money TED Radio Hour Throughline.

[Asma Khalid]

The NPR Politics podcast Code Switch embedded books we love Wild Card are just.

[Tamara Keith]

Some of the podcasts you can enjoy.

[Stephen Fowler]

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[Tamara Keith]

Get all sorts of perks across more than 20 podcasts with the bundle option. Learn more at plus.NPR.org these days there.

[Asma Khalid]

Is a lot of news. It can be hard to keep up with what it means for you, your family and your community. Consider this From NPR is a podcast that helps you make sense of the news. Six days a week we bring you a deep dive on a story and provide the Conte backstory and analysis you need to understand our rapidly changing world. Listen to the Consider this podcast from NPR at Planet Money.

[Stephen Fowler]

We'll take you from a race to.

[Asma Khalid]

Make rum in the Caribbean. Our rum from a quality standpoint is.

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The best in the world to the.

[Asma Khalid]

Labs dreaming up the most advanced microchips.

[Tamara Keith]

It's very rare for people to go.

[Stephen Fowler]

Inside to the back rooms of New York's Diamond District.

[Asma Khalid]

What are you looking for? The stupid guy here, they're all smart.

[Tamara Keith]

Don't worry about Planet Money from npr.

[Asma Khalid]

We go to the story and take.

[Stephen Fowler]

You along with us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Asma Khalid]

And we're back. And Stephen, you, along with our colleague Ju Joffe Block, have some new reporting about the latest happenings over at the entity known as Doge. Your reporting has to do with Social Security information and what DOGE is supposed to have access to. I want you to first actually tell us more about this Doge staffer mentioned in your reporting. His name is Antonio Gracias.

[Stephen Fowler]

Antonio Gracias is a billionaire. He's the CEO and chief investment officer of Valor Equity Partners. He's this private equity guy that's one of 10 Doge staffers embedded in the Social Security Administration. And for the last few weeks, he has been making the rounds, making some claims about non citizens that have received Social Security numbers. And he says that Doge has dug into that data and other databases and other sources and some states voter rolls that have shared the information and found evidence of non citizens with Social Security numbers registering to vote and voting in a relatively large scale. Now that is not something that is true. According to both Social Security experts and election experts that we've talked to, it's very hard to match information from a state voter roll with Social Security data, even if you have the access to the back end master Social Security data file because of the level of precision between the two. State voter files usually have names and maybe a birth year. They don't have the level of granularity needed to match to say, oh, this person in this database here is this potential person on the voter roll. So there have been these big claims made that just have not added up with explaining how Social Security works for these non citizens or with voting.

[Asma Khalid]

I do want to ask Stephen also though, about the data source itself, because it sounds like he's using data that he says Doge has collected. So to be clear, now Doge, at least in his case, has access to all sorts of personal data information that Social Security collects.

[Stephen Fowler]

Yeah, the DOGE initiative is a small number of people that have been dispersed to just about every federal agency you can think of having access to just about every federal data set you can think of, including your personal and financial information at Social Security and other places. And this is where it gets interesting. There have been more than a dozen lawsuits challenging Doge's access to this sensitive data, including the Social Security Administration. And in this ongoing lawsuit there, Gracias is listed in these filings as Employee 4. Employee 4 has a bio in some of these documents that matches Gracias bio on his website. And Employee four, according to these court filings, doesn't have access to any sensitive Social Security data or databases. And also this case, a judge issued a temporary restraining order blocking Doge staffers from accessing Social Security data while this larger case plays out. So in this lawsuit, in this case, there are some big questions about how this particular Doge staffer has access to this particular data or claims to have access to this data when the courts are saying, whoa, whoa, pause, you can't do that. And so it just is part of this larger question swirling around Doge in the federal government, who has access, why they have the access, and what they're doing with it?

[Tamara Keith]

Stephen, one question I have is finding alleged voter fraud doesn't even seem to be in the purpose or the remit of doge. What are they actually using the Social Security information for in terms of like, finding efficiency? Is there, is there an efficiency part of this?

[Stephen Fowler]

There is an efficiency part of what Doge is supposed to be doing in Social Security through these hundreds and hundreds of pages of court documents. They have explained that Doge at Social Security is looking at doing things like cleaning up the death master file and filling in information for people that don't have death dates and claim to be over 100 years old. And, you know, making sure that there's nobody on the list to receive benefits that aren't supposed to because of data errors or searching for waste, fraud and abuse within Social Security benefits and data. None of that touches on non citizens and non citizen voting, though the president did sign two executive orders that are relevant here. One, he signed an executive order last month directing agencies to knock down information silos and have more data sharing. And two, there was one dealing with voting that specifically mentions having the Department of Homeland Security look at state voter rolls to find evidence of non citizens voting there. But there's nothing really to back up why this particular person is using this set of data in this way at Social Security.

[Asma Khalid]

Stephen, what's the death master file that you referenced?

[Stephen Fowler]

The death master file is the file that Social Security has of people who have died and therefore are no longer receiving Social Security benefits and other benefits.

[Asma Khalid]

You know, this strikes me of a case yet again in which Doge staffers have access to a tremendous amount of government data, government information, and yet they're in this really weird position where you're sort of unclear on how they're exactly affiliated with the government entirely. Right. And what status they have. And Tam, this comes on the heels of yet another cabinet meeting we saw this week in which Elon Musk appeared at the cabinet meeting, though he is not a member of the president's Cabinet.

[Tamara Keith]

You know, the first cabinet meeting, he was standing sort of where a staffer would be, this cabinet meeting. And I think this is the third or fourth one of them the press wasn't invited into. He was seated around the table and he spoke. He, you know, as President Trump went around the table asking his cabinet secretaries to give a report, Elon Musk also gave a report. One thing to note, though, that President Trump said is something to the effect of, you know, like, Elon, you've got all of these great people, all of these tech geniuses. I hope they'll stick around. And I think that that gets at the temporary nature of Elon Musk's role. In theory, he is supposed to be done after 130 days as a special government employee.

[Asma Khalid]

Exactly.

[Tamara Keith]

And there have been a lot of hints dropped by the president and others that he is going to wind down his time in the government. One question I have is, are billionaires like, gracias actually going to stick around if Elon Musk goes back to just running his businesses.

[Asma Khalid]

All right. Well, we are going to take one more break, and when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging and evangelicalism.

[Tamara Keith]

Time travel with us every week on.

[Asma Khalid]

The Throughline podcast from npr.

[Stephen Fowler]

Hey, it's A. Martinez. Even as the host of a news show, it can be hard to keep up with the headlines.

[Asma Khalid]

That is why we make the Up first podcast every morning.

[Stephen Fowler]

In under 15 minutes, we cover three major stories with context and analysis from reporters around the world.

[Asma Khalid]

So you can catch up on Lo.

[Stephen Fowler]

Quetta Pasando while getting ready, making the sayuno, or going to work.

[Asma Khalid]

So listen to the up first podcast from npr.

[Stephen Fowler]

Imagine, if you will, a show from.

[Tamara Keith]

NPR that's not like npr, a show that focuses not on the important, but.

[Stephen Fowler]

The stupid, which features stories about people.

[Tamara Keith]

Smuggling animals in their pants, incompetent criminals.

[Asma Khalid]

And ridiculous science studies. And call it Wait, Wait, Don't Tell.

[Stephen Fowler]

Me, because the good names were taken.

[Tamara Keith]

Listen to NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

[Asma Khalid]

Yes, that is what it is called wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And it's time for everyone's favorite part of the show, can't Let it Go. That is the part of the podcast where we talk about the things from the week that we just cannot stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And I think I'm gonna kick it off today because mine is actually political this week. So I have a pet peeve that apparently is kind of akin to President Trump's pet peeve, which is about water pressure in show.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, no, don't get me started.

[Asma Khalid]

So I confess that I can relate to this situation about wanting to ensure there is good water pressure, Right? Like when I would rent apartments, I was that person who would go in and like, the number one thing I would check in each apartment is like, turn on the shower. What's the water pressure? Because I have really thick hair and it's a process to wash it, which apparently is a big concern of President Trump's. And this week he talked about it in the Oval Office.

[Tamara Keith]

In my case, I like to take.

[Asma Khalid]

A nice shower to take care of my beautiful hair.

[Tamara Keith]

I have to stand under the shower.

[Asma Khalid]

For 15 minutes till it gets Wet.

[Stephen Fowler]

It comes out, drip, drip, drip.

[Asma Khalid]

It's ridiculous. And so he put forth in executive order, there's in fact a fact sheet for those who are curious about making America's showers great again, in his words, which is about essentially eliminating some of what he views as bureaucratic restrictions on the amount of water that can come out of a standard shower that were put in place first by the Obama administration, then reinstated by the Biden administration. But my question is, look like I've lived in different places, gone to different hotels over the last several years, and I don't feel like I noticed a substantial difference between Obama, Trump, Biden era showers. I just assumed it was like, oh, there's bad plumbing here or lime buildup in this situation.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, there could be lime buildup, but there actually are shower heads that restrict the water coming out to conserve water. Pumping water is like one of the biggest sources of energy consumption in the country. I have unfortunately done many stories about this over the years, and not unfortunately, one of my favorite stories ever was about President Trump's obsession with water pressure. Not just showers, but also toilets. He hates low flow toilets, and hearing him talk about it is hilarious.

[Asma Khalid]

All right, Steven, what can you not let go of?

[Stephen Fowler]

Okay, so I don't know how much you know Asma and Tam about Fortnite, the video game slash world building empire that is popular with a lot of younger people, myself included. I have played from time to time. But this week Fortnite added a special Sken crossover with Sabrina Carpenter. Sabrina Carpenter, pop star. Great tiny desk, by the way. And so there have just been a ton of clips online of hordes of Sabrina Carpenters doing Fortnite dances and lip syncing to a lot of her songs while hilarious gameplay ensues. And if I ever get free time from all of my reporting, I might please, please, please spend some time with the Sabrina Carpenter Fortnite skin. Because everybody else is doing it. And so that's my can't let it go. Because every time I log on to Fortnite every couple months or so, there's entirely new universes built in there. And so I have been thinking about the Sabrina Carpenter Fortnite emotes for several days this week.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, so has my son, my older son. So I first allowed him to play Fortnite because I thought it was a dancing game. What I didn't know is that you dance after you kill people.

[Asma Khalid]

Really?

[Tamara Keith]

And before the dancing is not the point. Anyway, I have been overhearing him playing with his friends, being like, why are there all these Sabrina Carpenters everywhere. This is terrible. While listening to Metallica or whatever.

[Asma Khalid]

That's a very unusual collaboration, I will say. Fortnite and Sabrina Carpenter. That's all I got. I just. It's a. And it's an unexpected collaboration. All right, well, what about you, Tam? What can you not let go of?

[Tamara Keith]

What I cannot let go of is. It is. It's sort of a crossover event, not exactly the same, but there was a discovery in Loch ness of a 55 year old underwater camera that was tethered to the bottom of the lake, well below the surface, trying to capture images of the Loch Ness monster. And so these were set up before we were born. This camera system all over Loch Ness and an ocean going yellow sub was doing some practice in the lake. That sub is named Bodie McBoatface. Famous Boaty McBoatface got its rudder stuck on something related to the cameras and found this ancient camera and they pulled it up to the surface. It was still dry. It was amazing. The system worked. It just sat there for all these years and it was dry and there was film and they developed it.

[Asma Khalid]

Did they see a monster?

[Stephen Fowler]

A submarine?

[Tamara Keith]

No. Having news at your fingertips is great, but sometimes you need an escape and that's where shortwave comes in. We're a joy filled science podcast driven by wonder and curiosity that will get.

[Asma Khalid]

You out of your head and in touch with the world around you. Listen now to Short Wave, the science podcast from npr.

[Stephen Fowler]

The latest season of the White Lotus served up a tropical buffet of sex, betrayal, violence, revenge, privilege, drugs, death. And this was new spirituality. But whose dead body was floating in the pond? We've seen the finale and we've got thoughts on thoughts. Listen to the pop culture Happy hour podcast from npr.

[Asma Khalid]

Psychologist Dolly Chug studies the lengths we will go to protect the way we see ourselves.

[Tamara Keith]

We care about whether we're seen as.

[Stephen Fowler]

A good person, whether others see us as a good person and whether we.

[Tamara Keith]

Feel like good people.

[Asma Khalid]

Ideas about our self image. That's on the TED Radio hour podcast from npr.