Roundup: Indiana Rejects Redistricting, Trump Bashes Immigrants In Pennsylvania

Summary

NPR Politics Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Roundup: Indiana Rejects Redistricting, Trump Bashes Immigrants In Pennsylvania
Date: December 12, 2025
Hosts/Panel: Sarah McCammon (Politics), Tamara Keith (White House), Domenico Montanaro (Senior Political Editor/Correspondent)

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode offers a deep dive into two major political stories of the week:

1. Indiana’s surprising rejection of a Trump-endorsed redistricting plan, signaling rare Republican defiance against the former President.
2. President Trump’s rally in Pennsylvania, where he promoted his economic agenda but reverted to hardline anti-immigrant rhetoric.
   Additionally, the episode covers the Trump administration's evolving approach to immigration, the U.S. seizure of a Venezuelan oil tanker, and roundtable “Can’t Let It Go” moments.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Indiana Republicans Reject Redistricting Push

[01:11–04:43]

• Trump pressured Indiana GOP lawmakers to redraw House districts favorably for Republicans, a tactic that worked in other states (e.g., Texas, Missouri, North Carolina).
• The majority of Indiana Republicans refused, despite intense lobbying, protests, doxing, swatting, and public threats.
• Notably, State Senator Spencer Deary stated:
  “As long as I have breath, I will use my voice to resist a federal government that attempts to bully, direct and control this state or any state. Giving the federal government more power is not conservative.” – Spencer Deary (quoted by Domenico, [02:44])
• This pushback reflected both local cultural values (“Midwest nice”) and a commitment among some conservatives to federalist principles and institutional norms.

Broader Analysis:

• Trump’s waning approval (36% per recent AP/NORC poll) means his usual strategy of threatening to “primary” dissenters is losing effectiveness.
  • “I call nonsense on that comment by the President...Republicans have a really, really narrow majority in the House, just a few seats more than Democrats. So every seat here is going to matter.” – Domenico, [07:48]
• Redistricting as a national political chess game may, in the aggregate, be a wash, as Democratic states like California and Virginia draw new maps, potentially neutralizing GOP gains ([09:56]).

Memorable Moment:

• Tamara observes the contrast between Trump’s public bravado and his private involvement, noting he “was working on it very hard” despite his claims to the contrary ([07:07]).

2. Redistricting: Political Morality and Practical Limits

[08:51–11:30]

• The proposed Indiana map would have eliminated Democratic seats entirely—an extreme gerrymander that even some Republicans balked at.
• Tamara Keith highlights the risk:
  “When you take a seat that is really super safe and you draw it to make two seats, neither of them are as super safe as before.” – Tamara, [10:32]
• Domenico echoes: more polarized districts mean fewer members open to compromise, fueling legislative dysfunction ([10:43]).

3. Trump Rallies in Pennsylvania: Turnout Troubles and Messaging

[13:05–16:20]

• With midterms approaching and lagging approval, Trump is taking to the road, hoping to energize his base and boost down-ballot turnout in swing states.
• The White House’s new strategy: make midterms a referendum on Trump himself in hopes of boosting turnout, which is atypical (“not usually what you do because midterms are often a backlash to the president and the party in power” – Tamara, [14:28]).
• Domenico is skeptical the plan will work:
  “With this strategy, good luck...As much as Susie Wiles...wants to put Trump on the ballot, he's not gonna be on the ballot in any of these places.” – Domenico, [15:20]
• Trump’s economic message touts marginally lower prices (e.g., eggs, gas) and upcoming tax cuts, but analysis shows benefits are mostly for higher earners.
• The reality: Trump’s rallies quickly pivot back to culture war issues—especially anti-immigrant rhetoric—rather than policy specifics.

4. Escalation of Anti-Immigrant Rhetoric

[17:36–18:54]

• At his Pennsylvania rally, Trump openly disparaged immigrants from Somalia, Haiti, and other countries, using racially charged language he previously denied:
  “We don't want people from these countries. We want people from Scandinavia.” – Paraphrased by Tamara, [18:38]
• Domenico frames this as part of Trump’s long-standing culture war playbook ([17:49]).

5. Trump Gold Card: New Immigration Scheme

[19:15–20:42]

• The administration introduced the Trump Gold Card for immigrants, fast-tracking US Visas for those willing to invest at least $1 million.

• Critics highlight the hypocrisy: paying for expedited entry contradicts anti-immigration rhetoric and “skipping the line” that conservatives often decry.

  • Tamara summarizes:
    “Trump wants makers, not takers...They're just like sucking our resources. We want people that are gonna make us rich.” ([20:29])

• Domenico notes: there’s bipartisan agreement the immigration system is broken, but “Trump is not interested in fixing it—he wants immigration as an election issue” ([21:19]).

6. US Seizes Venezuelan Oil Tanker

[21:26–23:40]

• The US seized a sanctioned Venezuelan oil tanker linked to both Venezuela and Iran, citing terrorism concerns.

• U.S. actions reflect continued pressure on Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro.

• Polling shows Americans are wary of military intervention abroad, even as Trump’s posture toughens.

  • Tamara underlines the turnabout:
    “President Trump ran on no regime change...now you have the potential for regime change in Venezuela.” ([23:17])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Midwest Conservative Culture:
  “I think that the New Yorker in me and the Californian in Tam probably don't understand it quite as well, except for our reporting...this isn’t the way you treat your neighbor.” – Domenico, [05:38]
• On Trump’s ‘Power’ in the Party:
  “The question is whether that power, that ability to strike fear in members of his own party is waning because he is definitionally a lame duck.” – Tamara, [05:23]
• On Hyper-Gerrymandering:
  “How much more gerrymandered can you get than seven to two?...The political morals here...were something Indiana voters didn’t want and certainly pushed back on.” – Domenico, [09:19]
• On Immigration Messaging:
  “He always comes back to culture war issues, specifically on immigration and crime and demonizing immigrants. And that's what he's going to continue to do. Anybody who thinks it's going to be any different is just fooling them.” – Domenico, [17:49]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Indiana Redistricting Refusal: [01:11–11:30]
• Trump’s Pennsylvania Rally and Strategy: [13:05–16:20]
• Escalating Anti-Immigrant Rhetoric: [17:36–18:54]
• Trump Gold Card Visa Policy: [19:15–21:26]
• Seizing Venezuelan Oil Tanker: [21:26–23:40]
• Can't Let It Go: [25:01–32:14]
  • Tamara Keith: On musical analogies and covering live events ([25:16])
  • Domenico Montanaro: Woman gives birth in a driverless Waymo ([28:17])
  • Sarah McCammon: Drone-delivered “crab boil” intercepted at a prison ([30:44])

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"Can't Let It Go" Highlights

• Tamara: Compares Trump's recurring rally themes to bands playing their greatest hits. The team debates which artists must play certain songs at concerts ([25:16–28:14]).
• Domenico: Shares the quirky story of a woman giving birth in a San Francisco Waymo driverless car ([28:17]).
• Sarah: Discusses a failed but creative attempt to fly steak, crab legs, and marijuana into a South Carolina prison by drone ([30:44]).

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Tone and Style

The episode is lively, incisive, and occasionally humorous, with the hosts blending in-depth political analysis with human stories and light-hearted personal anecdotes in the "Can’t Let It Go" segment. The language is accessible yet informed, and the panel maintains NPR’s signature balance of seriousness and warmth throughout.

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Takeaway

This episode encapsulates major fault lines in contemporary US politics:

• The limits of Trump’s sway over his own party and the peaking of gerrymandering politics.
• The continuing centrality of immigration debates, both symbolic and policy-driven.
• The electoral calculus ahead of midterms, as Trump and his team test new (and old) strategies in response to shifting approval ratings.
• Meanwhile, the panel reminds us political life is intertwined with the odd, hilarious, and very human moments that define a week in America.

---

Transcript

[Domenico Montanaro]

This message comes from Carvana. Selling doesn't need to be stressful. With Carvana, it's quick, easy and all online. Enter your license plate, get a real offer and get paid. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today.

[Sarah McCammon]

Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. We want to hear from you, the supporters of this show, to see what we're doing well and how we could improve for next year. If you can, please take a short Anonymous [e-mail] Decembersurvey that's all one word. It takes less than 10 minutes. And especially if you're new to the show or you haven't taken one of these surveys before, you'd be doing all of us a huge favor by filling it out. We will be giving a $25 gift card to three randomly selected respondents as a token of our appreciation. So extra incentive to fill that out again. The link is npr.org decembersurvey you can also click on the link in our episode notes. Thanks so much. Now on with the show. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

It's been a busy week in politics, so let's try and unpack some of what's happened. And I want to start in Indiana. President Trump pressured the state's Republican lawmakers there, like he has others in other Republican led states to redistrict their House seats to to give Republicans a more favorable chance of success ahead of next year's midterms. But Indiana lawmakers said no and refused, with the majority of Republicans voting against the plan. Domenico. Other reliably red states, as we've talked about, Texas and Missouri, for example, and the somewhat purple North Carolina have all redistricted at Trump's behest. How surprising was it to see so many Indiana Republicans saying no?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, it's a big rebuke for Trump. I mean, it's probably the biggest pushback he's gotten within his party in the time that he's really been on the political stage. I would say in many respects, there were many Indiana Republicans who were willing to go along with this plan to try to squeeze out two more seats from Indiana to try to help Republicans retain control of the House. That's what this was really all about. But voters in the state just didn't want it. They'd seen significant pushback. A lot of these lawmakers were receiving threats as well from the right and still more rejected what was being proposed.

[Tamara Keith]

People were doxxed. People had pizzas show up at their home. They had swatting. There were large protests organized by allies of President Trump at the state Capitol. They were under intense pressure and they didn't like it. State Senator Spencer Deary is among those who voted against it.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And as long as I have breath, I will use my voice to resist a federal government that attempts to bully, direct and control this state or any state. Giving the federal government more power is not conservative.

[Tamara Keith]

And that's a federalism argument. Right? It's saying, we're the state of Indiana. We should be able to decide what we want to do. And the president and the speaker of the House and the vice president and all of the people who are lobbying on this shouldn't tell us what to do.

[Sarah McCammon]

President Trump is in a vulnerable place. His poll numbers are down. He wants more Republicans in Congress for the rest of his term, and yet he here was a group of Republicans who were willing to vote against him.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, the reality is that a lot of lawmakers are having to look out for their own jobs, right? I mean, whether or not the Indiana legislature goes along with trying to help President Trump and national Republicans get a majority in the House isn't of that much consequence to them locally. I do think that it's interesting nationally, considering this pushback that Trump has gotten, and maybe he wouldn't get that kind of pushback if he was more popular. The fact is, Trump is at the nadir of his popularity in the second term. He's in the 30s, according to a lot of polls. Recent AP NORC poll, for example, had him at 36% approval rating, which was even lower than our poll was last month, the NPR PBS News Marist poll, and not by much. And he only had a 31% approval rating when it came to handling of the economy. So people are kind of, in some respects, looking past Trump, and I kind of wonder what this is gonna mean more broadly when we see Trump off the national stage and sort of that, you know, big piece of the dam, that big brick in the dam is removed.

[Tamara Keith]

President Trump used the best leverage that he's had throughout his political career, which is to say, if you cross me, if you don't do the thing that I want you to do, that I'm going to primary you, I'm gonna support someone else to run against you in the Republican primary, and I'm so all powerful that you will lose your job. And 21 Senate Republicans in the state of Indiana said All right, you can try. And President Trump really made no secret of his plan to do this. It has worked with members of Congress who he said he would destroy. And then either they ended up not running for reelection or they did lose in their primary. It has worked in the past. The question is whether that power, that ability to strike fear in members of his own party is waning because he is definitionally a lame duck.

[Sarah McCammon]

Is there something about Indiana, though? I mean, you know, this is the state where former Vice President Mike Pence, who of course has broken with Trump in big ways. This is where he's from, where he was the governor. Does this say something about Indiana politics or is it, does it say something bigger?

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, I think Sarah would know better than you or me, Tam, when it comes to Midwest nice and how they respond to threats from bullies. I think that the New Yorker in me and the Californian in Tam probably don't understand it quite as well, except for our reporting. When we go to these places and understand that this isn't the kind of way that you treat your neighbor. And I think that that's a key piece of the politics of the Midwest and places like Indiana and Iowa, where so many of us have spent so much time, you know, in other places where this is, they see themselves as more neighborly. And this was certainly no neighborly way to treat people who are supposed to be allies.

[Sarah McCammon]

I think if I can speak broadly to the culture of the Midwest, being from Missouri and having spent time in Nebraska and Iowa as a reporter. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a broadly conservative place. But it's also sometimes that conservatism means a commitment to institutions and principles. And I think you saw that here in the arguments from some of these lawmakers. You know, Tam, President Trump likes to win. This was a big loss for him. What is he saying about it?

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, he is saying the thing that he says when he loses, which is, you know, I didn't really care that much. Well, we won every other state.

[Sarah McCammon]

That's the only state. It's funny, cuz I won the.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I won Indiana all three times by.

[Tamara Keith]

A landslide and I wasn't working on it very hard. Would have been nice.

[Sarah McCammon]

I think we would have picked up two seats if we did that.

[Tamara Keith]

And then he goes on to again say he plans to primary the Senate President pro tem and others who were against against him. But like this idea of, oh, you know, it would have been nice, but I wasn't working on it very hard. Oh no, he was working on it very hard. The speaker of the House was working on it very hard. The Vice President was working on it very hard. And President Trump has said in no uncertain terms that he believes the fate of his presidency, the fate of the country is on the line. Because if Republicans lose control of the House of Representatives, which seems entirely possible, then he's going to have a miserable last two years in office.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I was going to say I call nonsense on that comment by the President and you'd use a different phrase.

[Tamara Keith]

So would he.

[Domenico Montanaro]

In polite but among polite company here, I'll say nonsense because the fact is Republicans have a really, really narrow majority in the House, just a few seats more than Democrats. So every seat here is going to matter. So to say I wasn't that focused on these two seats. That's just not the case. I mean they want every single seat that they possib can get to be able to have the advantage to build in some cushion. Because right now Democrats have a significant advantage. The wind is completely at their backs. And they are also redistricting doing this mid decade redrawing in places like California, potentially Virginia, which could offset a lot of these Republican pushed changes and that would basically make the 2026 midterm redistricting arms race awash.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, someone who doesn't care very much definitely doesn't post in all caps all the time on social media about this.

[Sarah McCammon]

Very thing about those two seats that Trump said maybe he didn't care about so much. Indiana has nine House members. The proposed map would have obliterated two Democratic leaning seats, turning a 7 to 2 Republican majority to a possible 9 to nothing. So that's where those two come from. Other states redistricting plans have still kept at least a few Democratic seats. Do you think a more modest change like 8 to 1 maybe could have gotten through?

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, you know, how much more gerrymandered can you get than seven to two, right? I mean eight to one, nine to nothing. I mean once you go seven two, what's the difference between that and nine? Nothing. It's not a huge difference. And you know, maybe there'd be a couple other Republicans who would feel that way. But I think that clearly the political wins were and the morals here of doing this were something that Indiana voters didn't want and certainly pushed back on Republicans not to do.

[Sarah McCammon]

Domenico, you've said there aren't a lot of other places to go. But I mean broadly speaking, where does this leave this larger debate about redistricting?

[Domenico Montanaro]

This is potentially now this loss could mean again a net sort of even here because we're looking at states like Virginia where Democrats are likely to try to redistrict in the state because they maintained control of the legislature in these 2025 off year elections. A state like Louisiana and Florida, which are controlled by Republicans, are gonna try to squeeze out some more seats on their own. But again, those could be offset by Virginia while California offsets Texas. And we're talking about all this work, millions of dollars spent for nothing really.

[Sarah McCammon]

For a wash potentially.

[Tamara Keith]

And let me just add the other factor here, which is when you take a seat that is really super safe and you draw it to make two seats, neither of them are as super safe as before.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, yeah. And that's the political point here that TAM is making is a good one because this could boomerang on Republicans and wind up making a wave for Democrats even bigger if there is a wave. But I will also just step back and say that a very real consequence of creating more seats that are more polarized means a whole lot fewer people in Congress who are willing to compromise. And that's what we've seen for years now, that the incentive is to get through a primary and to be more among the extreme voices rather than toward the center. And that's all this kind of thing, this kind of fight has done over this past year is going to create even more polarized seats, more people with.

[Tamara Keith]

Less accountability and more loyalty to their party than to their whole constituency.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right, it's time for a break. We'll have more in just a moment.

[Domenico Montanaro]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Adobe introducing the all new Adobe Acrobat studio. Now with AI powered PDF spaces. Need to turn 100 pages of market research into 5 insights with the click templates for a sales proposal that'll close that deal or an AI specialist to tailor the tone of your market report. You can do all that with the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio. Learn [e-mail] do that with Acrobat.

[Tamara Keith]

Hey hey, it's Brittney Luce from It's been a minute. Your voicemail box is full.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, I'll admit it, so is mine.

[Tamara Keith]

So I'm leaving this for you here. I wanted to say thank you for supporting NPR this year and if you haven't given yet, it's not too late. Give me a call back when you.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Can visit donate.NPR.org this holiday season, give a gift that gives back. The NPR shop is back with the iconic logo tee, the tiny desk hoodie and fresh gear for fans of public media. What you wear funds what you hear Shop Meaningful gifts [e-mail] tis the season, you'll find plenty of good holiday movies, films that can be counted upon to deliver warmth and cheer.

[Tamara Keith]

And bad holiday movies. They can be fun in their own way. So we're debating what's the worst holiday.

[Sarah McCammon]

Movie of all time?

[Tamara Keith]

And yes, we'll be talking about love, actually. Listen to Pop culture Happy hour in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah McCammon]

And we're back. The midterms remain on President Trump's mind. Redistricting notwithstanding, he held a rally in Pennsylvania this week to boost his economic message and to start trying to gin up support for Republicans up and down the ballot. Tam, what is the White House's reason for getting Trump out now with 11 months still to go before those midterms?

[Tamara Keith]

Well, he just has not been out on the road much at all this year. He has been to vastly more sporting events than he has done, events to sell his agenda and his policies to the American public. And as we talked about earlier, his approval rating is in a really bad place. And the thing that used to be his strength, the economy, is now one of his weaknesses. And so they are trying to turn that around. Additionally, they look at the election results from November, these off year elections, and they took the lesson that when President Trump isn't on the ballot, Republicans don't do very well. So Susie Wiles, who's the White House chief of staff, appeared on a podcast called the Mom View. And in that podcast appearance, she said that the plan is to get President Trump out on the road. More typically, you in the midterms, it's.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Not about who's sitting at the White House.

[Tamara Keith]

It's you localize the election and you keep the federal officials out of it. We saw a week ago Tuesday what happens when he's not on the ballot and not active. So I haven't quite broken it to him yet, but he's going to campaign like it's 2024 again. Basically, what she's saying there is that they are going to make it like Trump is on the ballot. They want him to be an issue in the midterms, which is a remarkable thing because as she said, that's not usually what you do because midterms are often a backlash to the president and the party in power.

[Sarah McCammon]

So what's the theory there? They think that Trump is going to sort of carry the down ticket races in a sense, even though he's not on the ballot?

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. I mean, the theory there is that he generates turnout that he brings out low propensity voters that simply do not vote in midterms for Republicans, I have.

[Domenico Montanaro]

To say, with this strategy, good luck. I mean, this is the problem that Republicans have. Yes, they've had a very hard time turning out conservative MAGA voters who love Donald Trump to turn out at times when Trump is not on the ballot. 2018, midterm elections. Republicans lost 40 seats. Donald Trump was not on the ballot. And I gotta tell you, as much as Susie Wiles, the chief of staff there, wants to be able to put Trump on the ballot, he's not gonna be on the ballot in any of these places. He's gonna be on the ballot. Potentially, symbolically, they'll make this a referendum on him. But I think Democrats would welcome that. When you have a president who is, like I said earlier, at the nadir of his popularity, especially in swing districts that are gonna decide control of the.

[Sarah McCammon]

House, yeah, he's got these low approval ratings. The state of the economy is a really big concern for a lot of voters. And, you know, he's been saying that this affordability thing is a hoax, but, you know, that that message, it's hard to see that working long term. I mean, what is his message going to be as he campaigns in the coming months?

[Tamara Keith]

So his message at this rally was a lot of things, and we can get into that. But the argument is that they have lowered prices on some things, including eggs, which had seen a huge price spike at the end of the Biden administration, beginning of the Trump administration, including gas prices, which are maybe like 5 to 10 cents lower today than they were this time last year. Though that hardly makes up for the other costs that are much higher, including goods that are more expensive because of his tariffs and all of these things. But the message is, whether it's based in reality or not, things are cheaper and your paychecks are getting bigger. And they are saying that early next year, people will see that when they get a tax refund because of the one big beautiful bill act that President Trump signed into law over the summer. Those tax cuts are retro proactive. And according to the Tax Policy Center, I spoke with a senior fellow there yesterday who said their analysis is that on average, people will see about a $600 tax cut. Now, that has not evenly distributed. People with higher incomes will get a bigger tax cut. People with lower incomes will get a much smaller tax cut. Lots of different variables, but your paychecks will be somewhat, possibly bigger.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Two things here. One, to borrow a phrase from a former president and use it for this. One sounds a whole lot like Trumponomics. Okay. And two, is that what Trump actually talked about at this rally?

[Tamara Keith]

No.

[Domenico Montanaro]

No. And this has been the story of Trump for a decade. He always comes back to culture war issues, specifically on immigration and crime and demonizing immigrants. And that's what he's going to continue to do. Anybody who thinks it's going to be any different is just fooling them.

[Tamara Keith]

This rally, he joked about being off teleprompter most of the time, essentially said it would be boring if I just delivered the speech that was there, which is one of his bits. I mean, everything is a greatest hit. And, and one of the more remarkable moments as Domenico referenced here, is that among the many things that President Trump said at that rally, he disparaged immigrants from Somalia and Haiti and other countries that he uses an expletive to describe. This is something that it was reported in first term. He said throwback behind closed doors. He denied it at the time. And now at a rally, he is saying the words out loud. We don't want people from these countries. We want people from Scandinavia.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah. And that gets back into a lot of the racial dynamics that we've been talking about on this podcast. When we talked about the types of people that Trump wants to let in on visas, for example, only white Afrikaners from South Africa, but minority groups from other countries that are particularly war torn or experiencing famine, they can stay out.

[Sarah McCammon]

Well, even as the administration has been cracking down on immigration broadly, the so called Trump Gold Card officially launched recently, it allows investors to get US Visas if they contribute at least a million dollars. How does this work, Tam? How is it different from other similar offers that the US Already has in place?

[Tamara Keith]

It's sort of a pay to play thing. It is somewhat similar to a program that already exists where if people are willing to invest in the United States, they can get a fast track. But this essentially would allow companies like Apple and Google and a bunch of the various executives who were in the room when Trump was making this announcement would allow them to buy a Gold Card for an employee or prospective employee coming from outside of the United States. Or maybe they attended college in the United States but would have to leave if they don't get a visa. And it would give them a fast track to permanent residence status when it.

[Sarah McCammon]

Comes to the Gold Card. I'm curious about the optics here. I mean, there's been a longstanding conservative critique of immigration policy, that there are ways for people to skip the line and that that's unfair. But isn't this just another way for people to do that?

[Tamara Keith]

Trump wants makers, not takers. That's sort of his message. That's, that's not the exact words he uses. But essentially he's like, there are all these people we've let into the country and they're just like sucking our resources. We want people that are gonna make us rich.

[Domenico Montanaro]

The idea that just because you're rich, you're a maker isn't exactly the case. You know, I mean, you just basically are paying for your all inclusive US Pass and you just get to pay for it. You can, you know, roam around the United States, have a penthouse in New York. Whatever else doesn't mean that you're necessarily bringing jobs to this country. And again, I'll say that the immigration system in the country, I don't know that you would find anybody on the right or left who doesn't think that it needs to be fixed, that there needs to be some kind of comprehensive overhaul of the immigration system. But it's not something that Trump is interested in doing because he wants to be able to use immigration as an issue in elections.

[Sarah McCammon]

Before we take a break, there's one other foreign policy issue I want to talk about. The US Seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela this week, and that comes as part of the White House's continued pressure campaign against Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and the bombing of boats in the Caribbean and Pacific, which the government alleges are part of narco trafficking operations. What is the government saying about why it sees this boat?

[Tamara Keith]

They are saying that this is a sanctioned boat with sanctioned oil that could have supported terrorism. There are connections with this tanker and both Venezuela and Iran. And actually, unlike the airstrikes on the fishing boats, drug boats in the Caribbean and Pacific, there is sort of a strong legal framework for seizing ships like this oil tanker that are trafficking in sanctioned oil.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And it certainly looks like the United States is continuing to take provocative actions when it comes to Venezuela. President Trump does not like Nicolas Maduro, who's a left wing dictator in Venezuela. But if he actually goes through with some kind of military intervention in Venezuela, it would not be very popular with Americans, including in his own base. There was an Ipsos poll, for example, that showed that 55% of Americans think that the risks of the US taking military action against drug cartels in other countries outweighs the benefits. Only 38% said that the benefits would outweigh the risks. Republicans, two thirds of them, say that they think that the benefits would outweigh the risks. But still, having 31% of Republicans saying that they would disagree with something like this is a significant rift within the Republican base.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. I mean, this is just a real ramping up of pressure, as you say, on Maduro. And the remarkable thing is that President Trump ran on no regime change, on how terrible the Iraq war was and how the Iraq War was regime change and for the oil and all of those things. And now you have the potential for regime change in Venezuela.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah. This idea of America first. We'll see where that goes. Okay, one more break and then it's time for Can't Let It Go.

[Domenico Montanaro]

This week on up first, affordability is the latest buzzword in politics. So President Trump is hitting the road to tout his economic record, his message. The economy is thriving, but will Americans buy it? We'll bring you the latest this week on Up First Now, a Golden Globe nominee for best Podcast Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts on. Wait, Wait, don't tell me. Famous actors remember their days of obscurity, like when Pedro Pascal remembered the stress of being a wait waiter, the logistical labor of meeting everyone's needs in the right manner. You know, the act one, the water.

[Sarah McCammon]

Act two, the drink.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Listen to Wait Wait in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah McCammon]

Regular insurance is great for your standard.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Day to day risks, but for those once in a generation catastrophes, countries like Jamaica have made other preparations. We all realize that hurricanes are inevitable.

[Tamara Keith]

And we can't just sit here and hope.

[Sarah McCammon]

We had to be proactive on Planet.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Money, how Jamaica weathered the worst hurricane in the country's history with a bet. Planet Money Listen on the NPR app.

[Sarah McCammon]

Or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And it's time for Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week. We just can't stop thinking about politics or otherwise. Tam, I'm gonna start with you. What can't you let go?

[Tamara Keith]

So what I can't let go of is this thing that happened this week. I was appearing on Morning Edition and Up first talking about President Trump's rally in Pennsylvania. And I was trying to come up with an analogy for like why he always does the greatest hits. And what I came up with is that if you go to a Jimmy Buffett concert, then you're gonna be upset if he doesn't play Margaritaville. And I thought it was great. My editor thought it was great. And then make it through the hit and they come down the line in my ear, and they're like, tamara, Jimmy Buffett is dead, and you cannot. We need a better analogy. We need a different analogy. And so then it was like this scramble to try to think up what other musical group has the one song that you really expect to hear. And we thought, like, Eagles, Hotel California. And ultimately, I'm happy. Where I settled it was the Village People and ymca. If you go to see the Village People, you're gonna want to hear ymca. But my question for you all is, like, do you have a musical group? It's like a game. A musical group and the song that they have to play.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, as an editor also, I think you could have used the past tense and would have been fine.

[Tamara Keith]

I will just say yes.

[Domenico Montanaro]

If you went to a Jimmy Buffett concert, you might have expected to hear Margarita. I'm just saying that would have been okay.

[Tamara Keith]

Okay, but play my game. Come on. Come on.

[Domenico Montanaro]

All right. Well, I guess if you go see Dave Matthews Band, you expect to hear ants marching.

[Tamara Keith]

Yes.

[Sarah McCammon]

I saw Springsteen in D.C. like, what, a year ago? Or whatever that was. But it's like somebody like Springsteen has so many greatest hits that it's. You're never going to hear everything you want to hear.

[Tamara Keith]

So what didn't he play?

[Sarah McCammon]

I don't think he played.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Did he play Born to Run?

[Sarah McCammon]

You know what? I don't even remember, which. Cause I feel like there was a whole list of things that I was like, wait, is he gonna play that? Is he gonna play that? But now it's been a year, so I don't remember which.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Were you in a trance the way Chris Christie is in a trance when he goes to.

[Sarah McCammon]

I was standing in the pit, which I realized I'm too old for.

[Domenico Montanaro]

No kidding.

[Tamara Keith]

I mean, everybody at a Springsteen is too old to be in the pit.

[Sarah McCammon]

Seriously. Oh, I mean, I was, like, so jealous of the people sitting in the chairs. Who paid less?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Oh, there was. Speaking of sitting in the chairs, did you guys see the. The concert at the Sphere with the Eagles? Speaking of the Eagles. And there was a fan that took to TikTok and was outraged because of how many people were sitting down the entire time.

[Tamara Keith]

Like, including the band.

[Sarah McCammon]

No, not.

[Tamara Keith]

Because I've been to concerts where the band is sitting, too.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Wow. The people in the audience.

[Sarah McCammon]

But, you know, Tam, I used that analogy for years because it is exactly, exactly how it feels. It's like if he doesn't take through certain things, people are not satisfied.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, and there you go. Rolling Stones.

[Sarah McCammon]

Rolling Stones. Yeah.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, Satisfaction. Isn't that the name of the song?

[Sarah McCammon]

I Can't get no Satisfaction.

[Tamara Keith]

Yes. There you go.

[Sarah McCammon]

All right. Domenico. What can't you let go?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Oh, my goodness. I cannot let go of the story I saw in San Francisco where a woman gave birth in the back of a Waymox.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, my gosh.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Did you guys see this? So she.

[Tamara Keith]

The Waymos in San Francisco are crazy. They're everywhere. Okay.

[Domenico Montanaro]

She. She hailed a ride to the hospital and didn't make it in time and had the baby in the back of the Waymo. The Waymo, you know, customer support team detected, quote, unusual activity.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah, but in the car, there's no one to help you.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, that's not exactly true. You have, basically, people behind the scenes, you know, who detect, quote, unquote, unusual activity, and they decided to call 911 to have them check to see what was happening. But she'd already given birth by the time the car reached the hospital. And Waymo, of course, you can imagine.

[Tamara Keith]

Is there video.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You had? A Waymo spokesperson said, we're proud to be a trusted ride for moments big and small, serving riders from just seconds old to many years young. We wish the new family all the best, and we look forward to safely getting them where they're going through many of life's events.

[Sarah McCammon]

I was just trying to think about whether if this were me having given birth twice, thankfully, in a hospital, not a car, but, like, would I rather. My first thought was, oh, my gosh, how horrible that it was an unmanned vehicle. But then part of me is like, maybe it's better that it's an unmanned vehicle. Maybe I wouldn't want to deal with, like, the Uber driver who, you know, is playing music I don't like or, you know, has a weird cologne on. Like, maybe I'd rather it was just a Waymo, and it was just me and the Waymo and the baby and the people. I don't know.

[Tamara Keith]

When I went into labor at work, I had a co worker give me a ride to the hospital, and luckily, the baby was not born in my.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Coworker'S room, who was a man, by the way.

[Tamara Keith]

He was a man.

[Domenico Montanaro]

But, you know. But I have heard from nurses that they would appreciate having maybe an unmanned delivery room sometimes. Although I will say I've been there for two of them, and I think I handled myself just fine. But Waymo says, as well here, and this is even more weird, some people just can't wait for their first ride. Oh, my God.

[Sarah McCammon]

I don't know.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I guess they Want Waymo babies.

[Tamara Keith]

The youngest rider ever in a Waymo.

[Sarah McCammon]

There's a record by definition, right?

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. Sarah, what can't you let go of?

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, well, it is the holiday season, and we are all thinking about what to eat for the holidays with our friends and family. And. And this is a story about, I think just about innovation and aspiration in South Carolina, the Department of Corrections issued a post on X in recent days. It says, seems some folks were planning an early holiday Old Bay crab boil and steak dinner, along with their marijuana and cigarettes.

[Tamara Keith]

Oh, my God. I saw this all dropped by a.

[Sarah McCammon]

Drone at a correctional facility in Lee County. And in the picture, you guys, it's a. There's steak. There are what look like crab legs. There is a can of Old Bay seasoning.

[Tamara Keith]

I mean, that's the best part.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yes.

[Tamara Keith]

They have good taste in seasonings there in that prison or whoever was manning that drone. Yeah.

[Sarah McCammon]

And, you know, marijuana and cigarettes and so, you know, I mean, I guess guaranteed to make sure that the steak and the crab legs taste extra tasty. It didn't work, but I have to give them points for innovation, right?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah. The worst part of this story is that it was intercepted.

[Sarah McCammon]

I know. I am rooting for these guys.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Right? I mean, it sounds like a good time.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah. Anyway, happy holidays. Hope your celebrations are more successful. And. Yeah. Points for creativity. Is that where we leave it?

[Tamara Keith]

I think that is the end of the show right there.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Or like, you know, here's some. Now you've got some ideas.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah. Now you've got.

[Sarah McCammon]

You got some ideas for your holiday meal. Yeah. All right, that's all for today. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Our producers are Casey Morrell and Bria Suggs. Our editor is Rachel Bay. Special thanks to Krishnadev Kalimar and Kelsey Snell. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Tamara Keith]

I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Is it just me, or do you.

[Tamara Keith]

Think that weddings are getting a little out of control? I interviewed a woman who had been a bridesmaid in 13 weddings.

[Domenico Montanaro]

She had spent so much money and.

[Tamara Keith]

Gotten into so much credit card debt that when it was her turn to say, I do, they eloped.

[Domenico Montanaro]

How much is a wedding? Actually, listen to the It's Been a.

[Tamara Keith]

Minute podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. Wildcard is where big name interviews feel like conversations with a friend.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, I can't believe how lucky I've been. You didn't say goodbye the right way, McConaughey, she told me.

[Tamara Keith]

I don't think you're Princeton material.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I'm nothing if not open, I guess.

[Tamara Keith]

I'm Rachel Martin.

[Sarah McCammon]

Watch or listen to Wildcard on the NPR app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Fall in love with new music every Friday at All songs considered. That's NPR's music recommendation. Podcast Fridays are where we spend our whole show sharing all the greatest new.

[Tamara Keith]

Releases of the week.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Make the hunt for new music a part of your life again.

[Sarah McCammon]

Tap into new Music Friday from All.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Songs Considered, available wherever you get your podcasts.