Roundup: Trump visits the Middle East

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast: Roundup – Trump Visits the Middle East

Release Date: May 16, 2025

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, host Sarah McCammon, alongside co-hosts Franco Ordonez and Domenico Montanaro, delves into the significant developments surrounding President Donald Trump's recent Middle East trip. The discussion encompasses policy shifts, international relations, domestic political maneuvers, and noteworthy anecdotes from the political arena.

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I. Trump's Middle East Trip and Policy Shifts

Franco Ordonez provides an in-depth analysis of President Trump's actions during his four-day Middle East tour, particularly his decision to lift sanctions on Syria. Announced at a Saudi business forum on the first day (01:26), this move marks the end of sanctions that have been in place since 1979. The trip also included a pivotal meeting with Syrian President Ahmed Al Sharah the following morning (01:26), signaling a substantial shift in U.S. policy towards Syria. Ordonez highlights the significance of this meeting, noting, “Trump spoke about it to us on Air Force One later that afternoon and, you know, basically praised Al Sharra. He called him attractive. He said he was a tough guy. And he said he was someone who he thought had a shot of turning Syria around, though he said it would take a while” (03:00).

Domenico Montanaro comments on Trump's broader approach, emphasizing his tendency to prioritize business deals over traditional diplomatic concerns like democracy and human rights. Montanaro observes, “Trump has always had a sort of soft spot for these kind of dictators and autocrats” (03:55), underscoring the administration's focus on economic investments and strategic partnerships in the region despite ongoing conflicts, such as the war in Gaza.

II. Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks Stagnation

The podcast shifts focus to the intended peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, which were scheduled to take place in Turkey. However, Russian President Vladimir Putin failed to attend the negotiations (06:21), leading to frustration among U.S. officials and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Ordonez explains, “Zelensky... said it was proof that Putin was not taking it seriously” (06:21), while Franco Ordonez adds, “Trump said he, it was time to meet with Putin and he said he was going to meet with Putin as soon as they can get a time on the schedule” (07:09). This failure highlights the challenges Trump faces in leveraging personal diplomacy to resolve entrenched international conflicts.

III. Controversial Offer from Qatar for Air Force One Replacement

A contentious topic arises with Qatar's offer to provide President Trump with a new plane to serve as Air Force One. Franco Ordonez discusses the ethical and legal concerns surrounding this proposal, noting bipartisan skepticism. Despite these concerns, Trump dismissed them, stating, “if it was basically be stupid to turn down such a generous offer” (08:50). Ordonez highlights the complexity of the issue, mentioning, “there have been extensive delays about getting a new official one” (09:55), and observes that even some Republican lawmakers are voicing national security apprehensions (10:12).

IV. DOJ's Crackdown on Non-Citizen Voting: Myth vs. Reality

Miles Parks brings to light the Department of Justice's efforts to prosecute non-citizens for illegal voting. Over recent months, four individuals were charged within a single week, a development that has been co-reported with Jude Joffe Block (12:07). Parks challenges the narrative promoted by Trump and other right-wing figures that Democrats and the Biden administration have been actively facilitating non-citizens to vote, asserting, “this does not match the story that Donald Trump has been promising” (13:14).

The discussion reveals that many of these cases involve individuals who did not fully understand the voting eligibility rules, often lacking malicious intent. Domenico Montanaro reflects on the disparity between high-profile anecdotes and extensive studies showing that widespread voter fraud is not a pervasive issue, stating, “this idea that there's this... fraudulent voting happening in large scale numbers... just isn't happening” (17:03).

V. State-Level Voter ID Laws and the SAVE Act

The conversation shifts to proposals for stricter voter identification laws at both federal and state levels. Miles Parks explains the passage of the SAVE Act in the House of Representatives, which mandates documentary proof of citizenship for voter registration (18:12). He notes the potential challenges, including millions who might struggle to provide such documentation swiftly. Domenico Montanaro elaborates on the political motivations behind these laws, highlighting their popularity among Republicans despite concerns about disenfranchising eligible voters.

Jocelyn Benson, Michigan's Secretary of State and gubernatorial candidate, advocates for a targeted approach rather than broad ID requirements. She emphasizes, “We want to have no evidence of people who aren't eligible voting in our elections. But this is a serious issue and it has to be addressed with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer” (19:57), underscoring the need for precision in electoral reforms to avoid unnecessary voter suppression.

VI. Can't Let It Go: Legislators' Fatigue and DHS's Reality Show Proposal

In the Can't Let It Go segment, the hosts share lighter moments from the political sphere. Notably, they discuss instances of legislators appearing exhausted during lengthy committee meetings, humanizing elected officials by showcasing their relatable struggles with fatigue (23:19).

A more controversial topic is brought up by Domenico Montanaro, who highlights a report about Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem's proposal for a reality TV show aimed at immigrants seeking citizenship (25:19). This idea, reminiscent of shows like Duck Dynasty or Hunger Games, has sparked criticism for its dehumanizing implications and raises ethical concerns about treating immigration processes as entertainment.

VII. Personal Stories and Closing Remarks

The episode concludes on a positive note, with Miles Parks sharing his personal journey into gardening as a means of mental health and relaxation (27:53). This segment serves as a reminder of the importance of finding balance and tranquility amidst the often tumultuous landscape of politics.

Sarah McCammon wraps up the episode by acknowledging the contributions of the production team and encouraging listeners to engage with other NPR podcasts for diverse content.

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Notable Quotes:

• Franco Ordonez on Syria sanctions: “Trump dropped this news about Syria and lifting sanctions against Syria at a Saudi business forum on his first day on this four day trip through the Middle East” (01:26).

• Domenico Montanaro on Trump's approach to leadership: “Trump has always had a sort of soft spot for these kind of dictators and autocrats” (03:55).

• Miles Parks on DOJ charges: “this does not match the story that Donald Trump has been promising” (13:14).

• Jocelyn Benson on voter ID laws: “We want to have no evidence of people who aren't eligible voting in our elections. But this is a serious issue and it has to be addressed with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer” (19:57).

• Domenico Montanaro on DHS reality show proposal: “it just feels very cringy, like these are real people's lives” (26:18).

This comprehensive roundup captures the multifaceted discussions of the episode, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current political landscape influenced by President Trump's international engagements and domestic policy initiatives.

Transcript

[Sarah McCammon]

Conductor Robert Franz says, a good melody.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Captures our attention and then it moves you through time. Music is architecture in time. If you engage in the moment with what you're listening to, you do lose.

[Miles Parks]

A sense of the time around you.

[Sarah McCammon]

How we experience time. That's on the TED Radio hour from npr.

[Miles Parks]

Hey, npr, this is Morgan from South Lake Tahoe, California. And I am waiting to watch the sun rise over Lake Tahoe, having hiked by nothing but the light of a full flower moon.

[Sarah McCammon]

This podcast was recorded at 11:34am Eastern Time on Friday, May 16, 2025.

[Miles Parks]

Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but the sun will have risen, the moon will have set.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I will certainly be in need of a nap.

[Miles Parks]

Okay, here's the show.

[Sarah McCammon]

And the sun. Tahoe is so gorgeous. Been out there a couple times on reporting trips.

[Franco Ordonez]

Actually, full flower moon. I think that's a nice way to describe a moon.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Franco Ordonez]

I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And it's time for the weekly roundup. And let's start with you, Franco. You've been traveling with the president on his trip through the Middle East. You are speaking to us from Abu Dhabi. And there was some big news in the US Relationship with Syria on this trip. So I want to start with that. Tell us what happened.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, it really was big news. I mean, Trump dropped this news about Syria and lifting sanctions against Syria at a Saudi business forum on his first day on this four day trip through the Middle East. This announcement got a very large sustained political applause among the audience. I mean, these are sanctions on Syria that have been in place since 1979. And on top of that, Trump went and met with the Syrian president, President Ahmed Al Sharah, the next morning. And that, Sarah, is a really big deal because it is a huge shift in US Policy toward al Sharah because it was until recently that he was actually leading a group that the US Labeled a terrorist organization, a group linked to al Qaeda. Also on top of that, I mean, even you could tell that the White House was a little bit reluctant about giving too much information about that. They first told us that this meeting would not happen. Then they said it was going to be a brief hello. So I can tell you that I was very surprised when we got a very long readout that kind of had a detailed plan of what the US And Syria are hoping to accomplish as they move forward. It was not just a brief hello. It was obviously a very clear, long conversation. And Trump spoke about it to us on Air Force One later that afternoon and, you know, basically praised Al Sharra. He called him attractive. He said he was a tough guy. And he said he was someone who he thought had a shot of turning Syria around, though he said it would take a while.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And he called him pretty amazing. Said he led a charge. You know, it really does lend to the idea. And I think his entire trip, in many ways lends to the idea of Trump's view of leadership in the world. You know, there wasn't this talk of democracy or human rights. In fact, he deliberately put that to the back. Berner said that Western cultures shouldn't be lecturing the Middle east on governing and how to live and that the US Wasn't going to be doing that anymore under him. But, you know, the fact that he's doing this with this new leader of Syria and he's, you know, going to all of these kind of glamorous places, you know, in the Middle east, you know, without addressing any of how they rule with iron fists or talking about democracy and at all. Trump has always had a sort of soft spot for these kind of dictators and autocrats.

[Sarah McCammon]

So this fits into Trump's sort of long standing approach to leaders around the world, especially authoritarian leaders. But how does this fit into his Middle east policy? I mean, he's talked a lot about the Middle East. He promised to end the war between Israel and Hamas. That that hasn't happened. He didn't even visit Israel during this trip. What is he trying to achieve here?

[Franco Ordonez]

I mean, the big thing that they wanted to achieve was business deals. Bring back something domestically to talk to Americans about investments in the United States, arms deals, health deals, energy deals, critical minerals deals. But also a lot of the reason that the focus is on deals and business deals is because so many of the other issues that are going on in this region are so fraught that it's hard to have any good news out of them. I mean, the biggest issue of them all is the war in Gaza. Israel is continuing to escalate its attacks and has promised to even escalate even further, launch a major offensive after Trump leaves. But this is not something that Trump wants to talk about because he doesn't have so much of a solution. The solution that he did end up talking about is a freedom area, which would be essentially displacing Palestinians and developing the land. And I can tell you that his hosts who have been lavishing it with ceremonies and, you know, really giving him the royal treatment, vigorously oppose any such plan. I mean, Saudi Arabia, who Trump really wants to kind of normalize relations with Israel, has been very clear that they are not going to do anything like that until there's a ceasefire, until the Palestinians have an independent state or a plan for it at least.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And we know that the Israelis that are led currently by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his right wing government have no interest whatsoever in a two state solution. And that's something that the United States has been pushing for, for decades. But it really wasn't something that Trump decided to get into very heavily here on this trip. And he's certainly been thwarted by Netanyahu when it comes to trying to end its bombing in Gaza, where Trump felt he had a path to ceasefire that the Israelis just have not gone along with.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, I want to talk about another war that Trump promised to end. Russia, Ukraine and the US Were supposed to get together this week to have peace talks. What happened there?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, those talks are happening in Turkey, but not at the level that the two sides wanted or any of the sides wanted, including the U.S. i mean, Russian President Vladimir Putin just did not show up to the talks in Turkey. And Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky who did, said it was proof that Putin was not taking it seriously. Trump talked about it a little bit today and he said he knew that Putin would not show up if he wasn't there. And Trump did tease this week a couple times that he may make a surprise trip to Turkey. He even said that if he, he would have gone today, but that he needed to get back to the US to meet his new grandchild. His daughter Tiffany just had a baby. But making news, Trump did say that he, it was time to meet with Putin and he said he was going to meet with Putin as soon as they can get a time on the schedule.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, I'll ask you something, Domenico, that we've talked about before, but does this at some point become a political problem for Trump? He said he could end the war quickly. It hasn't happened. Does he need to make some progress here?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, you know, look, he set the bar very high for himself. He said that he'd get a deal done in 24 hours during the campaign, multiple times, he said that he could do it before he was even sworn in. Obviously that hasn't happened. He said that he was being facetious. You know, clearly he's gotta deliver at some point on these major Foreign policy crises. And there's a lot of foreign policy experts who think that, you know, Putin is just trying to delay Russia's president as he continues to try to make advancements into Ukraine. And, you know, Trump said he's not frustrated, but clearly there has to be some degree of frustration. He's got his own Secretary of State, Marco Rubio at these talks, pretty high level person within the United States. Russia sent what was the equivalent of many saw as the C team, the junior level, you know, staffers to try to negotiate. And, you know, there doesn't really seem to be an end in sight to that war. And Trump's gonna have to make a decision at some point. How much does he believe in his own power of the personal to be able to sway Vladimir Putin in whatever meeting that is gonna likely happen that Trump says has to happen for this war to be ended? Or does he simply say at some point, you know, Putin's overplayed his hand and he doesn't trust him anymore.

[Sarah McCammon]

We'd be remiss if we didn't also mention the offer from Qatar to give the President a new plane to use as Air Force One. You were there in Qatar this week. Any developments on that story?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, you know, on his way out, I mean, President Trump said if it was basically be stupid to turn down such a generous offer. I mean, as he was leaving, he basically dismissed the ethical and legal concerns about it. And there are a lot of ethical and legal concerns to justify this. He actually posted on social media that the plane would be donated to the Department of Defense and not him. Yet the plan is for this to go to his presidential library after he leaves office. It's not like it would stick around. I mean, this is such a sticky issue. Even some Republican lawmakers are expressing national security concerns, but Trump is clearly pushing forward. I mean, he complained throughout this trip, including this morning, that the plane was 40 years old, that it was not fit for an American president. He also said today that a new one is company, but he didn't. Well, that wasn't specific whether it was the cutter plane or, you know, a new official Air Force One. But I will note that there have been extensive delays about getting a new official one.

[Sarah McCammon]

It's supposedly on order though, right?

[Franco Ordonez]

It is on order on their organ. But Boeing kept having delays and talk about something that Trump is frustrated with. He is very frustrated with those delays.

[Sarah McCammon]

Domenico, There seems to be a rare bipartisan agreement on this, and it's overwhelmingly negative. How do you see this playing out.

[Domenico Montanaro]

There'S objections to this left, right and maga, you know, I mean, and but for very different reasons from all three of those sort of wings, we did hear from some Republicans in Congress who have talked about the real ethical and potential security concerns that they have of a plane being gifted to the United States.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, Franco, well, thanks for making time for us on your big trip. Safe travels back home.

[Franco Ordonez]

Thanks for having me. Great to be here.

[Sarah McCammon]

Time for a break. We'll have more in just a moment.

[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Sarah McCammon]

Shortwave thinks of science as an invisible force showing up in your everyday life, powering the food you eat, the medicine you use, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life. Come explore these connections on the shortwave podcast from npr.

[Domenico Montanaro]

On the Indicator from Planet Money podcast, we're here to help you make sense.

[Franco Ordonez]

Of the economic news from Trump's tariffs.

[Miles Parks]

It's called in game theory a trigger strategy or sometimes called grim trigger, which sort of has a cowboy esque ring.

[Franco Ordonez]

To it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is.

[Domenico Montanaro]

For insight every weekday, listen to NPR's.

[Franco Ordonez]

The Indicator from Planet Money.

[Sarah McCammon]

And we're back. And NPR's Miles Parks is here now. Hey, Miles.

[Miles Parks]

Hi, Sarah.

[Sarah McCammon]

Miles, you have some new reporting on how the Department of Justice is pursuing criminal charges against non citizens who are alleged to have voted in federal elections. And Miles, first of all, tell us about who's being charged and what they're accused of doing.

[Miles Parks]

Over the last couple months, it was clear that DOJ was turning to focus on this more. And then at the end of April, we started to see a result of some of that kind of extra investigative power. Right. We saw four different people be charged for illegal voting as non citizens in the span of one week, which made us me. And then I co reported the story with Jude Joffe Block. We just wanted to ask the question, the big question to me was do these arrests, do these people fit into the narrative that Donald Trump as well as Elon Musk and lots of other people on the right have been promising over the last year that specifically the Democrats and The Biden administration were shipping people in undocumented to vote for them in elections. And the short answer is no, that when you actually dig into the public records, the court filings around these cases, each one of them is a little different. But this does not match the story that Donald Trump has been promising.

[Sarah McCammon]

What do we know about them?

[Miles Parks]

So each one, like I said, is a little different. One of them, I will note, seems to be a very ardent Trump supporter. Actually, I was looking through a lot of his old court filings, and in. In one case, he's quoted as saying, may God bless my favorite president, Donald J. Trump, the greatest man of our times. So that does not exactly sound like a Democratic voter to me. In another case, one we focused on a lot in the story, a mom and a daughter who are alleged to have voted illegally in Florida in 2024. They are legal permanent residents. They are green card holders, but they told federal investigators that they did not know that also didn't mean they could cast ballots. And so when I talked to a researcher, I talked to a guy named Benji Cover at the University of Idaho who's looked into specifically noncitizen voting cases. And that is really, actually, really, really common. That oftentimes when you actually dig into the cases of noncitizen voting, it isn't people who are doing it with malice. A lot of times, it's people who just misunderstand the rules and are here legally, but don't realize that they actually also can't vote.

[Domenico Montanaro]

We saw this was the case in Florida Also when Ron DeSantis, the governor there, had tried to crack down on people voting illegally, whether they were in the country illegally or if they were felons, for example, who didn't have the right to vote yet or still. So. And a lot of those folks did say they didn't realize that they weren't allowed to vote and that it was a mistake. But. But the right really wants to be able to elevate these kinds of anecdotes, as we've seen over the years, for lots of different things. When the data don't match up with the narrative, they'll take an anecdote and make it something bigger than it is.

[Miles Parks]

Well, that's something Professor Cover mentioned to me as well. Domenico. He was basically like, if you just stop and think about it for two seconds, these are people who are risking deportation in a lot of cases, family separation, potentially prison time to go cast one ballot. And that just doesn't logically make sense in most cases.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Miles there's another interesting wrinkle here, and it appears that Doge was involved in, I guess, investigating some of these cases. What do we know about how these came to light?

[Miles Parks]

We are trying to get more answers on that, because in three of the charges that were filed, press releases from the Department of Justice, as well as a tweet sent out by the head of Department of Homeland Security, all credited Doge with being involved in some way in investigating these cases. And we also know in Donald Trump's executive order at the end of March related to voting, he instructed DHS to work with Doge to try to find illegal voting. We did not get any answers from the federal government, but we did do a little dive into things that Elon Musk and his associates have said about Doge's efforts. It seems like from a rally they did in Wisconsin a few weeks ago, that Doge may have been comparing some Social Security records to state voter rolls to try to see if they could find people who had indicated to the federal government in other instances that they were noncitizens, having voted in some of these states. But that is really unclear. The other thing that's. That's really unclear is how many people Doge seems to have found. In one quote, a Doge associate was quoted as saying that they had found more than a thousand noncitizens on rolls. But then in another instance where Elon Musk and some of his Doge team talked to reporters, they said they had referred close to 60 people for prosecution for illegal voting. So we are going to be watching this really closely to see if more cases come out where they say that they've. They've kind of matched data to find illegal voting.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Domenico, one thing I'm wondering about with this, this has been such an important part of Trump's narrative, this claim of illegal voting. And, you know, they say that they're pursuing all of these cases, but really just a handful so far have been produced. I mean, does this advance that narrative, or does it sort of count against their claim that this is a huge problem?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Because it depends on what your previously held belief is. If you believe that there's rampant voter fraud, then this certainly plays right into your belief structure. If you're somebody who knows this to not be the case, then you look at the data and say, this is just one small thing in a broader universe that would have made no difference in past elections. I don't think that this is gonna change anybody's minds one way or the other. I think that it's just another example of the Trump administration wanting to be able to, you know, enact their agenda, push their narrative, and be able to use these anecdotes to be able to spice up what otherwise are. You know, studies after studies that show that this idea that there's this, you know, fraudulent voting happening in large scale numbers that could have changed any elections just isn't happening.

[Sarah McCammon]

This is also being talked about at the state level. Miles, Many states are looking at changing their voter registration and voter ID processes. What's being proposed right now?

[Miles Parks]

Yeah, I mean, it's being proposed at every level of government right now. The Republicans are really focused on this issue and seem to be really galvanized by it. The House of Representatives passed the SAVE Act a few weeks ago, which would require people show documentary proof of citizenship. And I do think it's important to note what that actually means. We're talking about a birth certificate, a passport, some sort of proof that you are a US Citizen when you register to vote. And research has been done on this that that would be really hard for millions, tens of millions of people to produce quickly. So the Senate is set to potentially take up the SAVE act at some point soon. And then at the state level, like you mentioned, Sarah, there are 20 states currently considering some form of that legislation for their elections. And so I do think it's important to distinguish this debate because I think some on the right try to make the argument that either voter advocates or Democrats are saying this is not a problem at all, it doesn't exist. And I think it's a little bit more nuanced than that. I was talking to Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, who is a Democrat who's also running for governor in the state, and she said there just are not many cases of non citizens voting illegally in her state. They didn't audit. They found that only 16 out of the more than 5 million votes cast seem to have been cast by non citizens. So she wants approaches to this problem to be really targeted. What she says is that states, the federal government, everyone needs to be doing more on the back end to make sure non citizens are not able to register and cast votes. The burden shouldn't be put on voters to show that documentary proof of citizenship because that's inevitably going to lead to people just not voting. Here's what she told me.

[Sarah McCammon]

We want to have no evidence of people who aren't eligible voting in our elections. But this is a serious issue and it has to be addressed with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.

[Miles Parks]

That really Stuck out to me, just that idea, the scalpel, not a sledgehammer. When you consider, you know, producing documents like that to go register to vote for college students, married women who have changed their names, older voters who may have had some issue finding records, there's a lot of people who that could potentially impact that. You know, we will just have to see where this goes.

[Sarah McCammon]

I mean, this has obviously been an effective talking point during the campaign for Trump and Republicans. But Domenico, I mean, politically, where do you see this going? Do you see laws actually changing, particularly at the national level?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, certainly at the state level. And we saw the Trump administration put out an executive order saying that they want strict voter ID laws across various states now to be put in place. And we have seen that push, certainly. And I understand, understand why politically they're doing that because it's a popular idea. Most people kind of understand the idea, broadly speaking, of saying, well, if you need a driver's license to get on a plane, then you should be able to have some sort of form of ID to be able to vote. But as Miles points out, there are a number of people who, for one reason or another, don't have, you know, these kinds of documents and this kinds of id. But they are citizens. They live here. And what the left would say is that this is such a small problem in the numbers as it's been studied, that you can audit it, you can prosecute these folks, and maybe that would be more of a deterrent.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay, it's time for a quick break. When we come back, can't let it go. You've probably seen clips from the Jennifer Hudson show spirit tunnel on TikTok or Instagram, the ones where celebrities dance down the hallway to a clever song. These videos can reveal a lot. Do they have rhythm? And how famous are they really? We're breaking down the inescapable Internet trend. Listen to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from npr.

[Miles Parks]

When the Star wars prequels came out, they were polarizing. Many fans of the original trilogy hated.

[Franco Ordonez]

The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones.

[Sarah McCammon]

And Revenge of the Sith, though many.

[Miles Parks]

Younger fans loved them then and loved them still. So we're re watching them with fresh eyes 20 years later. From Jar Jar Binks to the climactic. No, that broke the Internet in half. Listen on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast.

[Sarah McCammon]

Tariffs, recessions, how Colombian drug cartels gave us blueberries all year long. That's the kind of thing the Planet Money podcast explains. I'm Sarah Gonzalez. And on Planet Money, we help you understand the economy and how things all around you came to be the way they are. Para que sepas. So, you know, listen to the Planet Money podcast from npr. And we're back, and it's time for Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about politics or otherwise as often as possible. I try not to think about politics in this portion of the show. That said, there was something from the world of politics this week that I can't let go of, and that was because it was kind of deeply relatable. We all know how hard it is to reach bipartisan agreement on much of anything in Congress, but at least three Houses members inadvertently reminded us that we are all human by appearing to fall asleep this week during very long committee meetings. Did you guys see this?

[Miles Parks]

I missed this.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, I didn't see it either.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay. So according to multiple news reports, Democrats Debbie Dingell of Michigan and Jan Schakowski of Illinois were spotted struggling to stay awake during a House Energy and Commerce Committee meeting that went on for more than 20 hours this week. And then during a House Ways and Means Committee hearing on Wednesday that went late into the night, Republican Blake Moore of Utah had to be woken up to vote. And we have a clip of that moment.

[Franco Ordonez]

Mrs. Fishbach?

[Sarah McCammon]

Mrs. Fishbach.

[Miles Parks]

No.

[Franco Ordonez]

Mr. Moore.

[Sarah McCammon]

And you see the camera panning to him, and he's all slumped over with his eyes closed. And then a colleague kind of taps him on the shoulder and he sort of jolts awake and grins sheepishly.

[Franco Ordonez]

Mr. Moore.

[Sarah McCammon]

And you can hear everyone starts laughing. But, I mean, we've all been there, right? Like in class or whatever?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Mr. Moore.

[Miles Parks]

No.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Are we sure he wasn't having a dream, you know, when he voted No. I mean, you know, sometimes you wake up in the middle of the night and you're like, no, no, no, no. You never know what was going on there.

[Miles Parks]

I do actually feel like I didn't know all of this context, but I do remember now that you're saying this, Sarah, I feel like I'm constantly monitoring lots of feeds of different things. And I do feel like I saw a quote come through from a lawmaker talking about drinking a lot of energy drink. And I didn't, like, fully engage with what was going on or why that was occurring. But this now makes sense that this was happening and that lawmakers were pounding a lot of energy drinks.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, I can't judge because I think I've talked many times on this Podcast about my golden semester as a Senate page in the 1990s. And we would fall asleep on the Senate floor sometimes because, you know, the inner workings of the government are not always glamorous or exciting, and sometimes they take a very long time.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, you're sitting there a while, can get kind of hot. It's kind of a monotone, you know.

[Miles Parks]

Oh, yeah, this is a little white noisy.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, totally domenico. What can't you let go?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Something a little spicier than. Than falling asleep in Congress. But it has to do with Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi NOEM and the DailyMail.com reporting on a 35 page pitch from the producer of Duck Dynasty to DHS to have a reality show for immigrants who do not have permanent status in the country to basically fight it out, quote, for the honor of fast tracking their way to US Citizenship. This is a thing that I might not even mention or take that seriously if it were not for the fact that the Department of Homeland Security acknowledged this pitch and the spokesperson called it a good idea, acknowledging that it was real, that it happened, and that the secretary is actually thinking about potentially doing this or signing on to it, at least thinking about it.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, you can't help but think of like Hunger Games or Squid Games. Those are fiction, guys.

[Miles Parks]

It's just too soon.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, it just feels very cringy, like these are real people's lives, you know. But it really kind of encapsulates the fact that so much of what's gone on in Trump's, you know, first months has been with the idea of, you know, reality tv. You know, Trump was a reality TV host, and certainly no one has been more willing to kind of go along with that, it seems, than, than Secretary Noem. You know, she was at the prison in El Salvador where she appeared in front of. Of prisoners there on video. So she's very attuned to what things seem to be on camera.

[Miles Parks]

It does actually kind of feel like a thing. Not to go back to your Hunger Games reference, Sarah, but it does kind of seem like a thing that could backfire just in terms of, like, once people actually get to know the people, I think they would have. That's always the thing, right, that it's like a lot of this rhetoric dehumanizes people who are in the country undocumented. And I feel like that was like the theme of the Hunger Games is like, once the public got to know these characters, they didn't actually want them to go, like, do all this bad stuff to each other.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, I mean. And to Domenico's point, Trump has always been an entertainer. That's how he got his start in many ways. So maybe it shouldn't surprise us that Hollywood and, you know, network executives would try to find an opportunity for a reality show here. But to borrow another TV reference, this one feels like it's jumped the shark a little bit, to say the least. And yes, we're talking about human beings.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, maybe Miles can lift the mood a little bit. What do you.

[Miles Parks]

I do. Mine is happier for sure. We can end this Friday on a good note. It is, it is spring here in Washington, D.C. and the thing I can't let go of is when I was off for a couple months in the beginning of the year, for the rest of my parental leave, and I got, for the first time in my life, started gardening, basically while the baby was napping. I just was like, like I was telling my friends I was like, going out and digging a hole for mental health. And so I would just like go outside and dig, pull everything out of my front yard and started planting stuff for the first time. And this week we are getting our first blooms. The main thing I planted was a hydrangea bush in our front yard. And I've got like, they not flowers yet, but like the beginnings of flowers. And even that is enough that, like, I'm, like obsessing every time I go outside now, I'm like going with my, like, iPhone flashlight and looking really closely and just like looking at them. And I really enjoyed this as like a way to spend time when I'm at home and not looking at a screen, you know?

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, I used to totally not be into any of that. But I feel like the older I get, the more I appreciate just like the, yes. The therapeutic value of digging in the dirt, planting something, watching it grow. Sometimes it's good to just kind of go back to nature and remember that it keeps doing its thing no matter what else is happening.

[Miles Parks]

I would also just shout out to anyone who hasn't jumped in, just plant stuff, water it, see what happens, you know.

[Sarah McCammon]

Okay. That's all for today. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Casey Murrell edits the podcast. Our producer is Bria Suggs. Special thanks to Roberta Rampton. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Miles Parks]

I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast. Great conversation makes for a great party. But how do you ask the questions that really make the room come alive. Well, here at Life Kit, we've got you. What is a path you almost took but didn't? On our latest episode, how to ask the magical questions that'll make your party sparkle. Listen to the Life Kit podcast from npr. A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story, but right now, you probably need more on up first from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under 15 minutes. Because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big, crazy world.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Of ours on any given morning.

[Sarah McCammon]

Listen now to the upverse podcast from npr.