Sources & Methods: Trump's UK Visit, Gaza/Ukraine Tension

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast – Sources & Methods: Trump’s UK Visit, Gaza/Ukraine Tension

Date: September 20, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guests: Danielle Kurtzleben (White House Correspondent), Michelle Kellerman (Diplomatic Correspondent), Daniel Estrin (Tel Aviv Correspondent)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Sources & Methods explores the nuanced dynamics of President Trump's high-profile visit to the UK, his meeting with Prime Minister Keir Starmer, and the broader national security implications for the US-UK "special relationship." The discussion pivots around key points of tension, especially differing approaches to the wars in Gaza and Ukraine, and examines diplomatic strategies, media interactions, and evolving international responses—particularly at the United Nations. On-the-ground perspectives from London and Tel Aviv give the episode an immersive, real-time quality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Atmosphere and Diplomacy of Trump’s UK Visit

• Trope of the “Special Relationship” Challenged
  • The once-vaunted post-WWII US-UK relationship appears increasingly transactional, focused on deal-making and less on historical bonds.

    "They're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II and this special alliance." — Michelle Kellerman [00:59], [10:04]

• Royal Pageantry and Opulence
  • Trump’s visit included traditional trappings of state—Windsor, Chequers, royal processions—all in lavish settings. But observers noted the pageantry’s impact on actual policy may be limited.

    "Opulence has been the name of the game this week here in the UK... All the reporters were really packed in like sardines." — Danielle Kurtzleben [03:53]

2. Trump and Prime Minister Keir Starmer: Press Conference Takeaways

• Disagreements on the Middle East
  • Key tension: UK's move toward recognizing Palestinian statehood and divergent approaches to Gaza.

    "Donald Trump responded to a question about that, saying, look, this is just one issue, one of the few issues on which I do not agree with Prime Minister Starmer." — Danielle Kurtzleben [02:52]

  • Trump’s Gaza emphasis was consistently on Israeli trauma, with little mention of Palestinian suffering.

    "[Trump’s] answer was just don’t forget about October 7th." — Michelle Kellerman [17:01]

• Media Access and Questioning
  • Trump limited questions to right-leaning outlets; contrast with Starmer who took more, including from critical British press.

    "President called on right leaning, not to put it mildly, reporters from right leaning organizations... questions from US reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters’ questions pushed Keir Starmer and Trump..." — Danielle Kurtzleben [04:52]

• Controversial Topics Sidestepped
  • Surprisingly, neither leader was questioned about Jeffrey Epstein, though tangential issues arose.

3. Ukraine and U.S.-European Unity

• Trump’s Shifting Rhetoric on Russia
  • Trump’s recent comments suggest disappointment with Putin, possibly hinting at a policy shift—but specifics remain unclear.

    "He’s saying, president Putin, he's let me down. He's really let me down. Does that open the door at all to Ukraine and its European allies..." — Mary Louise Kelly [08:09]

  • Trump asks Europeans to step up economic pressure, focusing particularly on oil imports from Russia.

    "He’s encouraging the Europeans to stop buying oil from Russia. And he's really kind of trying to put the onus back on the Europeans." — Michelle Kellerman [08:40]

4. Gaza War: Reporting, Strategy, and International Response

• In-Depth Coverage from the Ground
  • NPR’s coverage relies on local producer Anas Baba in Gaza, whose harrowing day-to-day reports illustrate the slow, grinding nature of Israel’s ground offensive.

    "[Anas] records the sound of bombardment... All of this is very intense, but it’s also very slow and gradual." — Daniel Estrin [13:46], [15:02]

  • Israeli strategy: sustained, phased military action in Gaza City; uncertainty over occupation logistics, with warnings from military leaders.

    "The Israeli military chief of staff... is warning this would be a full military occupation that Israel does not want. He’s been warning against this operation." — Daniel Estrin [15:45]

• International Pressure and UN Developments
  • Increasing isolation: UN commission accuses Israel of genocide, prompting outrage abroad but relative indifference in Israel—except for broader worries about international ostracism and economic consequences.

    "Most Israelis are not very rattled by this report. Israelis are used to hearing scathing reports from the United Nations for decades... You see international pressure growing on Israel... Many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing." — Daniel Estrin [20:03]

  • UK and Europe: Moving toward recognition of Palestinian statehood if Israel resists a ceasefire.

    "We know that this summer Starmer vowed the UK would officially recognize Palestinian statehood unless Israel moved on a ceasefire..." — Mary Louise Kelly [11:30]

  • U.S. position remains ambiguous—occasionally critical (such as after strikes on Qatar), but broadly supportive of Israeli government.

    "It was surprising just because this administration hasn’t criticized Israel at all... But that was a strike on an ally in the Middle East..." — Michelle Kellerman [22:23]

5. OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) Segment – Revealing Details

• Royal Security at State Visits
  • Security agents disguised as royal carriage staff; ceremonial military units rehearse active response to threats.

    "Look for the men in the tailored coats, look for the carriagemen... They are protection officers... Military... riding on horseback with swords... practice how they might block an attack." — Mary Louise Kelly [25:30]

• UN Drama: U.S. Visa Denials
  • U.S. denying visas to Palestinian Authority delegations for the UN General Assembly—a significant, pointed application of American leverage.

    "This year, the Trump administration is not giving visas to the Palestinian Authority... The US doesn’t want to see the PA have a role in Gaza, and they're not even letting them come to the General Assembly." — Michelle Kellerman [25:30]

  • This recalls the 1998 precedent when Yasser Arafat was blocked from the US; the UN relocated the General Assembly to Geneva as a workaround.

    "The US also blocked a visa for the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat back in 1998... The UN actually moved... its General Assembly to Geneva." — Daniel Estrin [26:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Supposed Special Relationship:

  "I think the special relationship has never always been all that special." — Michelle Kellerman [09:28]

• On Press Access:

  "The President called on right leaning, not to put it mildly, reporters from right leaning organizations... from the US reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters..." — Danielle Kurtzleben [04:52]

• On Gaza Reporting and Human Impact:

  "He filmed a woman afterwards picking through the belongings in the tent she’s in. She could only salvage Lipton tea bags." — Daniel Estrin [15:02]

• On Israeli Isolation:

  "You see international pressure growing on Israel... Many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing." — Daniel Estrin [20:03]

• On the UN and U.S. Diplomacy:

  "The US doesn’t want to see the PA have a role in Gaza, and they're not even letting them come to the General Assembly." — Michelle Kellerman [25:30]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:59: Critique of US-UK “special relationship” as transactional
• 02:21–05:52: Inside Trump-Starmer press conference: disagreements on Gaza, media access, unexpected omissions
• 08:09–10:23: Russia-Ukraine tension, Trump’s shifting stance, impact on European allies
• 13:04–17:52: Gaza war deep dive: reporting from Tel Aviv and Gaza, Israeli military strategy
• 20:03–23:38: UN commission report on Gaza, Israeli and international reaction, policy implications
• 25:30–27:33: OSINT segment: royal security, US visa maneuvering at UN, historical precedents

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Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, on-the-ground look at how high-level diplomatic events, fraught international crises, and subtle policy choices intersect at the core of US national security and foreign relations. The conversations blend acute journalistic observations with hint-of-the-scene color, keeping the tone brisk and engaging. By pulling back the curtain—on diplomatic choreography in gilded British halls, on the agony of Gaza, and on the inner workings of global diplomacy—Sources & Methods gives listeners rich context and insight into why the headlines matter.

Transcript

[NPR Promo Announcer]

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[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Hey there, It's Tamara Keith here with another Saturday episode of sources and methods, NPR's new national security podcast hosted by Mary Louise Kelly. We've been sharing these episodes here for a few weeks, but today will be the last time we do that. That means now is the time to find sources and methods on your podcast platform of choice and follow the show for new episodes every Thursday. Here's the latest episode of Sources and Methods from npr.

[Michelle Kellerman]

They're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II and this special alliance.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

After a royal charm offensive. How special is the so called special relationship feeling between the UK and the US we'll check the temperature and dig into one of the key points of tension, the war in Gaza. This is Sources and Methods from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. Every Thursday, we discuss the biggest national security stories of the week. Today I am in London, where I've been covering President Trump's visit, protests, royal carriage ride, business deals, security details and all. NPR diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman has been following it from her perch at the State Department. And Michelle, Nick, no royal carriage rides for you, alas. But I guess you probably have better weather than we do here in Britain, so you can take the win. And we also have on the line White House correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben, who's actually on this side of the pond with me today. Danielle is part of the White House pool traveling with President Trump. Hey, Danielle.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Hey there. You can hear a helicopter behind me. That's how you know this is real.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah. Tell me where you are. What's the scene?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, I am outside of Chequers. That is the prime minister's country. Country residents, that is where we just watched that press conference between President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Keir Starmer. And right now the press pool is just waiting outside for our next move.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I wonder, while I have got you before you board the plane and helicopter and then plane and fly home with the president to Washington, what jumped out at you from this much anticipated press conference with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, a couple things. First of all, the diplomatic issues on which the two men disagree. And I think this jumped out to a lot of people. First of all, there were questions about the UK's impending decision to recognize Palestine as a state. And Donald Trump responded to a question about that, saying, look, this is just one issue, one of the few issues on which I do not agree with Prime Minister Starmer. And when the question of Gaza came up at all, Donald Trump just kept going back to October 7th to the horror of that day, as a way of backing up his decision to continue supporting the.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah, I'm just gonna jump in because we can hear that you're very much in the thick of it and just get a little bit of your sense of what it is there. Pull back the curtain on what it's like to be actually in that room. What struck you in terms of trapping, in terms of body language? Things we might not have been able to see. Those of us who were, you know, watching a video feed from the outside.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

The room was opulent, but like, opulence has been the name of the game this week here in the uk. I mean, between the President's visit to Windsor, we in the press pool went to Windsor. Today, we did not get to go in. But even from the outside, it is just stunning, the grandeur of it. And here at Checkers similarly, it's no, it's no Windsor Castle, but it is a large, beautiful place. And that room that we were in for that press conference, you couldn't see it on the TV feeds, but it was a room about as wide as it was tall. It was kind of a cube. And so it wasn't very large, length and width wise. All the reporters were really packed in like sardines.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, and speak to that, because the reporters packed in like sardines. I was interested in who got called on at this press conference. The Prime Minister took the first few questions. President Trump. Who did he call on and what, what were you noticing as a White House correspondent?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Well, quite frankly, the President called on right leaning, not to put it mildly, reporters from right leaning organizations. Prime Minister Starmer, for his part, did two rounds of questions. I think he took about half a dozen questions, but then President Trump only took three questions and he called on gbn, which is a UK organization that is right leaning. Yes, he called on Real America's Voice and he called on Fox News. And the questions, quite frankly, from the US reporters did not push Trump nearly as much as the British reporters. Questions pushed Keir Starmer and Trump, for that matter.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah, I was in the GB news, newsroom here in London yesterday, getting a sense of how they were covering this visit. So it was really interesting to see their new Washington anchor getting the first question. One topic that did not seem to come up was Jeffrey Epstein. There was a lot of expectation that these two leaders didn't want to talk about, therefore reporters would definitely ask them about it. What do you make of that?

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Look, I am not going to speculate. I don't know what to make of that. But that was, that was stunning to me. I don't know why no one asked about that. The, the question of that UK Ambassador did come up, though. Someone did ask Keir Starmer about Peter Mandelson, the ambassador who was fired recently after some emails came to light showing that he was quite friendly with Epstein, even after Epstein had been convicted of some pretty heinous things. So that did come up a little. But you are absolutely right that direct questions about Jeffrey Epstein did not come up today. And look, I don't know what to make of it beyond being very, very surprised.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay, Danielle Kurtzleben, we are going to release you to the helicopter into the flight that is taking you and the rest of the White House reporters back to Washington today. Thanks so much for joining Sources and Methods.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Yeah, thank you for bearing with me.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

All right, well, while Danielle makes it to the airport, Michelle Kellerman, I want to run through some of the takeaways that you have from that press conference we just watched back in February. This was when this all got put in motion. Keir Starmer was visiting the Oval Office. He pulled a letter for Trump out of his jacket pocket.

[NPR Promo Announcer]

This is really special.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

This has never happened before.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This is unprecedented. Unusual indeed. Unprecedented invitation from King Charles for a second state visit. My question, Michelle, did it work? What was your takeaway on what these two leaders walked away from after this meeting?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to tell yet whether all of this flattery, the pomp and circumstance is really going to make a difference. I mean, we did hear the president shift gears on Russia a bit. He had met with Putin in Alaska and rolled out the red carpet there. And since then, we've seen the Russians continuing to bomb Kyiv. And Keir Starmer even pointed out that they're hitting things like the British council in Kyiv and the EU Embassy. And you have Russian drones flying over Poland. So the Brits have really wanted to keep a focus on that and to get Trump to kind of change his mind on Putin and to really step up the pressure.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, and it was interesting. I was in Alaska for that summit. And I remember it ended with Trump thanking, and I'm quoting, his good friend Vladimir for a very successful meeting. Here we are a month later. I think it's like a month and three days, and he's saying, president Putin, he's let me down. He's really let me down. Does that open the door at all to Ukraine and its European allies for trying to translate Trump maybe signaling a personal shift to an actual policy shift?

[Michelle Kellerman]

It could, but we didn't hear what that policy shift might look like. We did hear the president say that he thinks that Putin is going to drop out of this if the price of oil comes down. So he's encouraging the Europeans to stop buying oil from Russia. And he's really kind of trying to put the onus back on the Europeans. I'll do the pressure, but you have to as well. You know, we'll see if that really happens.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So let me end us back on the special relationship. I looked this up. It was actually Winston Churchill who coined that phrase shortly after World War II. Of course. Of course it was Churchill. He owns all the best turns of phrase. Does the special relationship still look special from your vantage point covering U.S. diplomacy?

[Michelle Kellerman]

I think the special relationship has never always been all that special.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I mean, it's come a long way since Churchill.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Yeah. Even helped the UK I mean, the UK has seen tariffs like other countries. The UK has come under criticism from this administration for cracking down on hate speech. That's something that the Trump administration is bringing on the Europeans, including the Brits. So President Trump has a fondness for the Brits. His mother came from Scotland and he talks about that a lot.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

But.

[Michelle Kellerman]

But they're treating the Brits like they are other European countries. It's all about deal making, transactional diplomacy, and not so much about these big picture issues of what the world looked like after World War II. And this special alliance, it's gotten down to kind of more transactional diplomacy.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And there was a lot of transactional diplomacy at this particular diplomatic encounter. There were US Business leaders in the room, British business leaders in the room, and many billions in tech and energy and other deals announced. Okay, Michelle Kellerman, stay with us because after a short break, we're going to dig into one of the issues that was front and center during this press conference. Indeed, it got the very first question and a few more after that. That's the war in Gaza. You're listening to sources and methods from npr.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

Sources and Methods, the crown jewels of the intelligence community. Shorthand for how do we know what's real? Who told us? If you have those answers, you're on the inside and NPR wants to bring you there. From the Pentagon to the State Department to spy agencies, listen to understand what's really happening and what it means for you. Sources and Methods, the new National Security Podcast from npr. Military commanders, intelligence officials, diplomatic power players, they know things you may not about where the world is headed. And we will pull back the curtain on what they're thinking on sources and methods. NPR's new National Security podcast. Our team will help you understand America's shifting role in the world. Listen to Sources and Methods from npr. All right. We're going to spend the next few minutes on what was perhaps the biggest area of tension at the Trump Starmer meeting, and that is Israel's ongoing offensive in Gaza. It was the one area where we heard President Trump allow that he has some disagree with Keir Starmer and the Brits. We know that this summer Starmer vowed the UK Would officially recognize Palestinian statehood unless Israel moved on a ceasefire and moved toward long term peace. Well, instead, Israel has launched a major ground offensive in Gaza City, and once again, hundreds of thousands of people are being forced to evacuate. So I want to pull a voice from Tel Aviv into this conversation, and that voice is Daniel Estrin, our correspondent for NPR based in Tel Aviv. Hey, Daniel.

[Daniel Estrin]

Hi, Mary Louise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Hey. Okay, so we're gonna talk this through with you and Michelle and I would love to start with how we know what is happening on the ground. I just said you're in Tel Aviv, you're not in Gaza. We do have a producer in Gaza, Anas Baba, who you work with closely on a daily basis. Can you pull back the curtain a little bit on just how that works?

[Daniel Estrin]

Yeah. Anas Baba has been reporting for us from Gaza for the entire duration of the war. He's from there and we get reports from him every single in front of.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Me, a father with his two children.

[Michelle Kellerman]

He's sitting on the sidewalk and he's.

[NPR Promo Announcer]

Sitting above all his luggage, his tent.

[Daniel Estrin]

He records the sound of bombardment, just the last in the last couple nights, he has recorded Overnight, the sound of artillery fire, of helicopter fire, of warplanes, Israeli warplanes rumbling in the skies above Gaza.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Yeah, we always want to be careful because his security is paramount. But what. What is he sharing about what he is seeing, what he is living through? As you said, he's from Gaza. He's not only reporting the story, he's living it as this new, renewed, massive ground operation cranks up.

[Daniel Estrin]

Yeah, and this. This ground operation has been very slowly advancing in phases. And first, Israeli troops were active on the periphery of Gaza City. And while he was reporting on that, he was also packing up his family's home, the furniture, all the belongings, and renting a van, moving it to a warehouse in southern Gaza as Israel was slowly advancing its troops in the periphery of the city, where his family has had his home for as long as he's been alive. And then in the last several weeks, tall buildings have been obliterated by Israeli airstrikes.

[NPR Promo Announcer]

I stood in the dust and debris, one of those towers, filming the attack.

[Daniel Estrin]

I watched a video that he filmed of intense gray plumes of smoke just rolling in. He filmed a woman afterwards picking through the belongings in the tent she's in. She could only salvage Lipton tea bags. And then this week, that intensified bombing at night that I mentioned. So all of this is very intense, but it's also very slow and gradual. Israel turning the screws, trying to encourage and scare Palestinians into leaving the city in advance of troops rolling in.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And you're there in Israel. You cover Israel. What is Israel saying about why, about why this is the strategy they're choosing to pursue?

[Daniel Estrin]

Well, Israel is signaling that this is a different chapter of the war than every other chapter. Every other chapter, troops went into areas, fought Hamas brigades, and then left those areas. And this is different because the army says that they will be sending troops into the heart of Gaza City. This is Gaza's biggest city, dense urban environment with hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living there. Still, some have left, but the majority of the city's residents are still there. And then we don't know what will happen. The. The plan is for them to be there indefinitely. And so this leaves Israel in a completely new situation. Will. Will soldiers be responsible for providing food and water and basic services to hundreds of thousands of civilians in the middle of a dense urban area? The Israeli military chief of staff, privately, we hear in reports, is warning this would be a full military occupation that Israel does not want. He's been warning against this operation, against this offensive, and yet it's moving ahead.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Michelle, Jump in you have reported from the Middle East. You're now covering Middle east diplomacy from Washington and about to cover it from New York, from the UN General assembly, which begins next week. What is striking you and what you're hearing Daniel say, what kind of questions are going to be on your mind?

[Michelle Kellerman]

You know, one of the British reporters asked a question of Trump today and it was basically, you're the only one who can stop Netanyahu. What are you going to do? His answer was just don't forget about October 7th.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There was no mention of suffering in Gaza in his yeah, I mean, this.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Administration has pretty much given Netanyahu free reign. And I think that's pretty shocking because of course, the US Wants him to win, wants the hostage is released. But as Daniel said, you know, there are Israeli military people who are saying this is a bad mistake. I mean, friends don't let friends make mistakes like that. Right. But you're not hearing any kind of pushback from the Trump administration. And on the other hand, you have the Europeans who are going to the UN General assembly next week. There's going to be a big event on Monday where more and more countries are going to recognize a state, state of Palestine.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, speaking of the United nations, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we will talk about the sweeping report from a United nations commission that accuses Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. Will it make a difference?

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[Michelle Kellerman]

A lot of short daily news podcasts.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

Focus on just one story, but right.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Now you probably need more on up.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

First from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

In under 15 minutes because no one.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Story can capture all that's happening in.

[Danielle Kurtzleben]

This big crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the upverse podcast from npr. Here at Life Kit, we take advice seriously. We bring you evidence based recommendations. And to do that, we talk with researchers and experts on all sorts of topics because we have the same questions you do, like what's really in my shampoo? Or should I let my kid quit soccer? Or what should I do with my savings in uncertain economic times? You can listen to NPR's Life Kit in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michelle Kellerman]

It's fall so maybe you're figuring out your Halloween costume or where to get a pumpkin spice latte. And if you want to know what buzzy movies and TV shows to check out this fall, we've got you covered. Listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv, pick back up. I want to ask about this independent United nations commission that has found Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Now, Israel, not surprisingly, is rejecting this as distorted, calling it false. How is the news landing where you are in Israel?

[Daniel Estrin]

Most Israelis are not very rattled by this report. Israelis are used to hearing scathing reports from the United nations for decades. And on the question of genocide, most Israelis see this in the lens of the Holocaust and they say Gaza is not Auschwitz. I will say there is something that is rattling Israelis and it is the sense of international isolation that Israel has been rapidly facing. This UN Report is just one example of something a lot bigger that Israelis are looking at. And I can give you a number of examples. Israelis vacationing abroad have been attacked on the streets of Europe in several instances. The Eurovision Song Contest. And don't laugh that I'm bringing this up because this is a huge deal for Israelis. Yeah, they're obsessed with Eurovision and they compete. And the Eurovision Song Contest is under big pressure from several countries to disqualify Israel. Germany is probably Israel's biggest ally besides the US and it is now talking about suspending military exports to Israel, military exports that could be used in Gaza. And other European countries are doing the same with their military exports. And this week there was a speech by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that really rattled Israelis. He said Israel may have to become, and I quote, a super Sparta and self reliant in building its weapons on its own without depending on support from other countries. And after that speech, the stock market in Israel plummeted. So you see international pressure growing on Israel over its conduct in Gaza. You see the isolation. And many Israelis look at that and see a snowball that is just growing and growing.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Michelle, weigh in on that because I'm thinking it's very hard, I will say, to keep track of quite what the US Position is on some of this. On the one hand, we saw just today President Trump again not mentioning the crisis in Gaza, instead focusing very much on wanting to get Israeli hostages home. That follows last week, though, the US Joining the UN Security Council and condemning Israeli strikes on Qatar. As someone who's covered the UN For a long time, how surprising was that?

[Michelle Kellerman]

It was surprising just because this administration hasn't criticized Israel at all. But that was a strike on an ally in the Middle East, Qatar. The US has a big base there. And I think, I think Trump sounded frustrated with Netanyahu about that. They sent Marco Rubio to go to Qatar, but that's it. I think next week you're going to see the U.S. and Israel very isolated at the U.N. i mean, 142 countries already in the General assembly have approved this declaration that the Saudis and the French have come up with, which is just basically just trying to revive the whole notion of a two state solution. Saying that's the only way to really resolve this. It's not gonna change anything on the ground if you have more and more countries recognizing a state of Palestine that doesn't wish it into existence, but it will step up the pressure internationally. And just listening to the words that Keir Starmer used. He said we have to end the catastrophe in Gaza. He said the situation is intolerable. Those were pret strong language that he had today.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So that's a little bit of what to look for next week. I'm going to move us toward our last segment, the very popular, increasingly popular OSINT section of our podcast. Before I do, a quick reminder. You can email us. We are at sourcesandmethodspr.org you can send us your questions, your feedback, your tips. A thank you to listener Sam in the D.C. area who did just that. He wrote to say he listens on Friday mornings while getting ready for school, high school. And he asked us, how about covering eastern sentry. Now that is a NATO operation to protect territory on the eastern flank of the alliance. And Sam, we will keep it in mind. He also adds that his favorite part of the show is osint. So, Sam, this one's for you. For those of you who are new to Osint, it means open source intelligence. O S I N T It's the final segment of our show. We share some not so secret details that maybe might reveal a bigger story. If you know where to look, I will kick us off. This is something fascinating that I just learned this week here in London. We were doing all kinds of reporting on the security preparations for President Trump's visit. They are immense, as you will imagine. And we interviewed a guy named Nick Aldworth. He used to be the UK's National Coordinator for counterterrorism. And he said, when you're watching all the proceedings at Windsor Castle, all the royal pageantry, look for the men in the tailored coats, look for the carriagemen. On the back of the carriages. He said they are protection officers. He also said, look at the military that are riding on horseback with swords that you might imagine are ceremonial. No, no. He said every year they get together, they practice how they might block an attack. He said, it's really impressive to watch. So I had no idea. I just figured they had a really good tailor and good suits. But there you go. Michelle Kellerman, what do you have?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Well, as I'm getting ready for the UN General assembly, the words that keep coming back up is the headquarters agreement. You know, the UN is based in New York in the us, and the US has an obligation to allow people to come to the UN to speak countries from around the world. And, you know, you had Soviet leaders during the height of the Cold War. I remember Hugo Chavez from Venezuela speaking after George Bush had spoken, and he said the devil was here today and it still smells like sulfur in the room. You know, you've had a lot of drama of people over the years and, and, you know, a lot of kind of bad actors coming to the UN General Assembly. But this year, the Trump administration is not giving visas to the Palestinian Authority. Those are the people that, you know, you'd think the US would want to support to have some sort of future Palestinian state and to talk about this statehood issue, to talk about peace. But the US doesn't want to see the PA have a role in Gaza, and they're not even letting them come to the General Assembly.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Wow, Daniel, I bet you have thoughts on that from Tel Aviv.

[Daniel Estrin]

Well, I will mention one thing there. There is a precedent there. The US also blocked a visa for the Palestinian leader Yasser arafat back in 1998 for the UN. I didn't know this before. The UN actually moved its General assembly meeting to Geneva in order for him to be able to come and give a speech. That was in 1998. What I'm hearing from Palestinian officials and from my reporting here is that the Palestinian Authority president without a visa now, thanks to the Trump administration, they did not want to rock the boat by asking the UN to move the UN General assembly this year. And so it's going to be in New York without him. They didn't want to rock the boat because they want to remain in the US's good graces. So we'll have to see if Abbas sends his speech on video. I don't know.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I do not either. But I do know I'm glad to have had the chance to talk to you. NPR international correspondent Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv thanks so much.

[Daniel Estrin]

Oh, it was a pleasure.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Thank you. And diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman in Washington. Thank you.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Great to be here.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That's our show for today. One more thing you for this week, to our NPR supporters who hear the show without sponsor messages, if that is you, thank you. Starting next week, you'll have access to our growing archive, which includes all but the most recent four episodes. If you're not a supporter, you can learn more and you can sign up at plus.npr.org plus.npr.org, the link. It's in our episode notes. Supporters help keep this show going. You power independent journalism across npr. Npr. We're back next Thursday with another new episode. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. Thank you for listening to sources and methods from npr.

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