The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: Sources & Methods: Two wars escalate abroad, political violence at home
Date: September 13, 2025

Episode Overview

This special episode guest-features NPR’s new national security podcast "Sources and Methods." Host Mary Louise Kelly and national security correspondents Odette Youssef and Greg Myre unpack urgent global and domestic security developments: dramatic escalations in the Israel-Hamas and Russia-Ukraine wars, and the assassination of U.S. conservative activist Charlie Kirk in Utah. The episode reflects on the lasting shadow of 9/11 on U.S. institutions and the national security apparatus, the politicization of intelligence under President Trump’s second term, and the evolving and complex landscape of political violence at home.

The show is rounded out with an interview featuring Senator Alyssa Slotkin, a former CIA analyst and White House official profoundly shaped by 9/11, who discusses the current state of American institutions, intelligence, and the persistent threat of division within the country.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk and Rising Political Violence (02:40 – 04:05)

• Charlie Kirk, a prominent conservative activist, was shot and killed during a speech on a Utah college campus—an event amplifying national concern over growing political violence in the U.S.

• Reporting Uncertainty: As of recording, no suspect was in custody. Two individuals had been arrested and released.

• Risks of Rumor and Rhetoric: The vacuum of information led to rampant online speculation and finger-pointing, increasing incendiary rhetoric and polarization.

  “I’m so concerned that the longer we go, some of this really incendiary rhetoric that we’ve been seeing on social media and elsewhere is just going to keep on churning."
  — Odette Youssef [03:17]

2. Escalating Wars Abroad: Israel, Hamas, Qatar and Russia-Ukraine-NATO (04:05 – 06:21)

• Middle East: Israel targeted Hamas leaders in an airstrike on Doha, Qatar—a U.S. ally and venue for ceasefire negotiations.

  • This is a major violation of Qatari sovereignty and undermines U.S.-backed peace efforts.
  • Israeli action perceived as defiance against President Trump's wish for de-escalation.

• Europe: Russian drones violated Polish (NATO) airspace; NATO scrambled fighter jets in response.

  • Seen as Russia testing NATO and U.S. resolve.
  • So far, reactions have been muted, with no significant repercussions.

  “It’s a clear escalation... carried out by leaders who are going directly against the wishes of President Trump, seemingly because they think they can and there won’t be any repercussions.”
  — Greg Myre [04:48]

  “Qatar is sort of the Switzerland of the Middle East — no mountains, no snow, but it’s a safe space where people can get together and talk.”
  — Greg Myre [06:11]

3. Reflecting on 9/11: Intelligence Failures and Institutional Changes (06:21 – 12:06)

• Greg Myre recalls pre-9/11 reporting: Noteworthy is the early identification of Ramzi Yousef (1993 WTC bomber) and his links to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (9/11 mastermind).

  • The CIA had ample clues about targets, methods (using airliners as weapons), and individuals involved before 9/11, but failed to "connect the dots."
  • Seizure of Yousef’s computer in 1995 revealed plots eerily similar to what would later occur.

  “Here in 1995, we knew the potential target... the method... and the family... who would go on to mastermind the 9/11 attack six years later.”
  — Greg Myre [08:04]

• Post-9/11 Institutional Responses:

  • Creation of Department of Homeland Security, Director of National Intelligence, and the Counterterrorism Center.
  • Shift of the CIA from purely intelligence work to paramilitary operations.
  • Initially, focus was on foreign terrorist organizations, but the U.S. also faced major domestic extremist threats (e.g., Oklahoma City Bombing, Timothy McVeigh).
  • Today, the “most lethal and persistent threat” on U.S. soil is white supremacist extremism, per the FBI.

  “The threat landscape here in the homeland today is vastly more complex than it was 24 years ago.”
  — Odette Youssef [11:38]

4. The Politicization and Restructuring of Intelligence (12:54 – 15:48)

• Widespread reshuffling and cuts: Under President Trump, the intelligence community faces abrupt leadership changes, the slashing of staff by nearly half at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and frequent dismissals of top officials whose estimates contradict the administration’s public stances.

• Dilemma for career officials: Intelligence staffers face pressure to align resources and even threat definitions with Trump’s political agenda, complicating objective analysis.

  “As a career official in intelligence, do you really want to put your whole career and reputation on the line by writing something you may believe, but it’s at odds with something that President Trump has stated publicly?”
  — Greg Myre [14:07]

• Changing definitions: Trump’s administration expands the official definition of terrorism to include drug cartels and others—shifting counterterrorism resources and priorities.

  “There’s a lot of questions right now from the counterterrorism world on this sort of reorientation of the definition of terrorism that we’re seeing from the administration.”
  — Odette Youssef [15:12]

5. OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) Roundtable (15:48 – 18:30)

• Greg Myre on Tom Hanks and "Woke" Backlash:
  Tom Hanks, known for his advocacy for veterans, had a West Point award cancelled after President Trump criticized him as “too woke.”

  “President Trump got wind of this, complained publicly and loudly … West Point Alumni association announced… cancelling the ceremony.”
  — Greg Myre [16:13]

• Odette Youssef on Violent Extremism in Pop Culture:
  Fashion brand Shein modeled a T-shirt with accused murderer Luigi Mangioni, possibly through an AI-generated image. Mangioni’s image and persona have become a bizarre pop culture fixture, including musicals and bumper stickers.

  "I continue to be fascinated by the ways that Mangioni seems to have kind of captured the culture.”
  — Odette Youssef [17:36]

• Mary Louise Kelly on NATO Article 4:
  Poland invoked Article 4 after Russian drones entered its airspace. Unlike Article 5 (the bedrock of NATO’s collective defense), Article 4 is about urgent consultations, signaling a heightened seriousness among NATO members.

  “…it conveys a seriousness of concern about what the response should be…”
  — Mary Louise Kelly [18:30]

6. Interview: Senator Alyssa Slotkin

(21:25 – 29:06)

Slotkin’s Background and Perspective

• Personal Impact of 9/11: Slotkin was a 25-year-old student seven miles from the World Trade Center when the attacks occurred, later joining the CIA and serving at the White House and Pentagon.

  “It completely changed my life. I mean, top to bottom, that is.”
  — Alyssa Slotkin [21:34]

• On current institutional upheaval:
  Expresses grave concern over the politicization of intelligence and the “slashing and burning” of agencies under Trump.

  “I can’t tell you how dangerous I think it is to politicize intelligence… it’s very hard to see some of these moves as anything other than attempting to shape the intelligence community to the will of Donald Trump.”
  — Alyssa Slotkin [23:57]

• On the need for reform:
  Advocates for rethinking and improving the U.S. intelligence and defense institutions instead of simply reverting to pre-Trump status quo.

  “The status quo was not working.”
  — Alyssa Slotkin [25:13]

Slotkin’s View of the Biggest National Security Threat

• Primary threat is domestic, not foreign:
  Cites the decline of the middle class and resulting social instability as the greatest threat to U.S. security—driving polarization, resentment, and ultimately violence.

  “The existential threat to the country is not coming from abroad. It’s the shrinking middle class at home and what that does to our stability here.”
  — Alyssa Slotkin [25:44]

• On opportunity for change:
  Emphasizes the need for rapid Defense Department innovation and the dangers of bureaucratic inertia compared to China’s agility.

On the Loss and Hope Since 9/11

• Loss of unity:
  Slotkin mourns the loss of national unity and decency evident after 9/11, contrasting it with today’s fractured political climate.

  “We were all on the same team. And I’m so glad that I got to be there in that moment to see that. And I’m so concerned with how far we feel from that moment.”
  — Alyssa Slotkin [27:56]

• Enduring hope:
  Finds optimism in the “80% middle” of ordinary Americans (“Team Normal”) who wish to escape the grip of political extremes.

  “They just want Team Normal… that gives me hope.”
  — Alyssa Slotkin [28:30]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Here in 1995, we knew the potential target... the method... and the family... who would go on to mastermind the 9/11 attack six years later."
  — Greg Myre [08:04]

• "The most lethal and persistent threat on the homeland, according to former FBI Director Christopher Wray, has been violent white supremacists."
  — Odette Youssef [11:38]

• "As a career official in intelligence, do you really want to put your whole career and reputation on the line by writing something... at odds with something that President Trump has stated publicly?"
  — Greg Myre [14:07]

• "Oftentimes I think Trump has the wrong answer to the right question. It's the way he goes about it."
  — Alyssa Slotkin [24:53]

• "I really believe that the existential threat to the country is not coming from abroad. It's the shrinking middle class at home and what that does to our stability here."
  — Alyssa Slotkin [25:44]

• "They just want Team Normal... and that gives me hope."
  — Alyssa Slotkin [28:30]

Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Event | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------| | 02:40 | Discussion of Charlie Kirk shooting | | 04:05 | Escalation in Israel-Hamas and Russia-Ukraine wars | | 06:21 | 9/11’s legacy and intelligence failures | | 12:54 | Cuts and politicization in U.S. intelligence | | 15:48 | OSINT (Open Source Intelligence) segment | | 21:25 | Senator Alyssa Slotkin interview begins | | 25:44 | Slotkin outlines domestic threats | | 27:56 | Reflections on unity and hope since 9/11 |

Overall Tone

The conversation is urgent, clear-headed, and realistic, confronting dangerous trends at home and abroad while reflecting a deep sense of institutional memory and concern for the future. Senator Slotkin’s interview is personal yet analytically sharp, echoing the podcast’s theme of grappling with complex threats amid upheaval and uncertainty.

Listeners come away with an understanding of:

• The fast-developing crises in U.S. foreign policy arenas
• The disturbing rise in political violence domestically
• The profound shifts in U.S. intelligence and national security since 9/11
• The dangers of politicized intelligence and threats to objectivity
• Why the stability of the American middle class is, according to experts, the foundational security challenge of our time

For questions, feedback, or topics, listeners are encouraged to contact the show at sourcesandmethods@npr.org.