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Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast for Friday, February 20, 2026. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.
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B
I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I also cover the White House.
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A
And I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.
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C
Today on the show, President Trump's signature economic policy, tariffs on imported goods, has been struck down by the supreme court. In a 6, 3 ruling, the court said the president did not have the authority to impose tariffs unilaterally, as he had long claimed. Danielle, let us start there. How had the president tried to impose tariffs?
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B
Well, in the case that we're talking about here, we're talking about a law called ipa. And you're going to hear us say I EAPA a million times today. IA stands for the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. It's an act from the 1970s that the Trump administration said allowed him to impose just sweeping tariffs on goods from all over the world. The only thing was that he had to declare an emergency first. So those tariffs can only be used in case of emergency, he said. And so he imposed them to deal with what he said were two emergencies. One is a large trade deficit with many countries and the other is fentanyl. So he said, look, the fentanyl trade and also our trade deficits so big, we're going to use these tariffs to try to cover those. Now, one important point that covers just the tariffs that are on particular countries. So if Trump said we are imposing tariffs on goods from China, Canada, Mexico, those are IPA tariffs.
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C
And we can just remind everyone that he had a big ceremony in the Rose Garden with giant poster boards with numbers on them saying the tariffs that he was going to impose on dozens of countries, that was back in the spring.
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B
Yeah, April 2nd of last year. And it wasn't just dozens of countries,
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C
it was about 90 countries, including an island inhabited by penguins.
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B
Absolutely.
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C
And so let's get to the Supreme Court. What does the decision say about why he can't do this?
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B
Well, like you said, it's a 6:3 decision. And those six justices who said, nope, you can't do these tariffs, they were a little bit split on why he can't. But the basic idea is that Congress just didn't give him explicitly the authority. The government had been arguing that there's language in IIPA that IEEPA says the President can regulate and later that the law says importation, so that together he gets to regulate importation.
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C
So are they in the same sentence?
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B
They are, but they're separated by 16 words in between. But this was the government's rationale. And so they said, look, these tariffs aren't a tax, they're regulation. They're to regulate importation, therefore we can use them. And the Supreme Court said, no, no, no. And in the varying opinions, different justices talked about different reasons why this doesn't work. But in one of the opinions, I believe by the Chief justice, it said, look, the SEC gets to regulate all sorts of stuff. That doesn't mean we allow the SEC to impose taxes. So regulate doesn't generally mean you get to tax people.
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C
And I think that we should not overstate here how much of a blow this is to the President of the United States, because this is something that he campaigned on. This is something not just that his economic policy is built around, but also his foreign policy. This isn't just about trade. This is what he was using as leverage to get trade deals. This is what he said he used as leverage to get peace around the world. And as I said, it's something he talked about frequently in the campaign. Ashley, talk about the politics here.
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A
Well, I mean, this is Trump's not just one of his favorite policies, one of his favorite words. Right. He talks about it all the time. And it's actually the part of the economy that voters hold him the most accountable for, which is really important here. When you hear voters talk about the economy, they still blame a lot on Biden and the pandemic, but when it comes to tariffs and some of these lingering high prices, this is the stuff that they blame specifically on Trump. So it's been a double edged sword.
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D
Right.
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A
It might be his favorite thing, but it's actually the thing that a lot of voters, including some of his voters and even members of his own party don't like very much. So there is a world in which this Supreme Court ruling could have been a little bit of a lifeline ahead of the midterms, but that would have depended completely on Trump backing off of tariffs. But that is not the route he take, which I guess could have been pretty much predicted by anyone.
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C
Yeah. And Danielle, you were in the White House press briefing room where President Trump held an impromptu last minute press conference to express his feelings, which were strong.
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B
Oh, he's mad. That's the long and short of it. I mean, he got up there, he was flanked by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, the Trade Representative, Jameson Greer, and Solicitor General John Sauer. And those guys mostly didn't say anything. They just stood there and looked serious. While Trump just got really upset about this decision. He not only said he's disappointed in this decision, but he got personal with the justices, specifically saying that Justices Gorsuch and Barrett, who are two justices he appointed and who ruled against the tariffs, he was upset because he doesn't think they are sufficiently loyal to him.
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C
Yeah, he really tore into the justices and said that this was a terrible decision. But then, as Ashley alluded to, he said, and now I'm gonna double down.
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D
But other alternatives will now be used to replace the ones that the court incorrectly rejected. We have alternatives, great alternatives. Could be more money. We'll take in more money and we'll be a lot stronger for it. We're taking in hundreds of billions of dollars. Will continue to do so.
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C
So, Danielle, what does he mean by that? What is, what is he saying he's going to do?
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B
Well, he's saying he's going to use laws other than IEEPA to replace these tariffs, laws that he and his team think will withstand any sort of potential legal challenge. So already we have heard and seen Trump use. Section 232 is the shorthand for it, tariffs that are justified by saying that they are for national security. And he has Section 232 tariffs in place. And those are not going away. That's tariffs on things like steel and aluminum, automobiles and auto parts, that sort of thing. Those are sticking around. But besides that, he said today that he is going to impose a 10% global tariff using a law called Section 1 22. There's a whole mess of laws with three digit numbers that he can use. That's one that he is using. But the difference between those and IEEPA is that those laws come with limitations on the President's power. So these don't give him exactly the same power that he had before, but they're something. And he said he's willing to use them.
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A
Yeah, he's not pivoting away from tariffs just because he got a Supreme Court ruling he doesn't like. And by the way, I mean, from Trump's point of view, this probably seems a little bit like a whiplash because the court has been siding with him, at least on emergency docket stuff. But pretty consistently he's had quite a run before the Supreme Court. I mean, it's interesting that this is the line. This is like the bridge too far for the Supreme Court. But Yeah, I mean, he's like, well, you know, the dissent that was written by Kavanaugh has a pretty clear roadmap of where I could go and take this next. And so I'm not stopping. There's other avenues here, which is very Trump. He doesn't have a habit of pivoting away from the things he really cares about. And as we mentioned, there are a few things he cares about more, especially when you're talking about the economy and foreign policy. There are a few things he cares about more than tariffs.
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B
And really, to drill down into what Ashley is saying, it is kind of remarkable that he is doubling down on tariffs so much. I mean, on the one hand, yes, it makes total sense why he loves tariffs. He loves the negotiations. He loves being able to use the tariffs to twist other countries arms. He has talked about that so much.
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C
He loves the power.
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B
Yeah, absolutely. And what AIPA allowed him to do that these other laws we're gonna discuss generally don't allow him to do is IEBA allows him to sit down and fire off a truth and say, hey, I'm imposing an X percent tariff on that country over there. And then he could go sign an executive order. It allows him to do a lot and fast. Trump loves that. But there was a recent poll from the Pew Research center that showed that half of Americans, including 20% of Republicans, which is a lot right now, when Republicans love him. But they all say these tariffs affect them and their families negatively. Half the country says they're negative. He wants the power even if people don't like this, even if these tariffs make things less affordable.
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C
All right. We are going to take a quick break and we will have much more in a moment.
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D
This week on up first from NPR News, funding ran out for the Department of Homeland Security and Congress went home. DHS does a few important things like secure the airports or the coasts or the president. Now their funding is uncertain. And what does this say about the way Congress works or doesn't? Follow us for the latest each morning on up first on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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C
And we're back. And I have some questions, like what happens next? Because the federal government has been collecting tariffs, which economists say have largely then been pushed on to American consumers and American companies. What happens if all of these tariffs that were imposed have been overturned? What happens to all that money?
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B
That is a great question. And that's the thing everybody's been asking after they've looked at these opinions. Because going through it, the opinion striking down the tariffs does not mention refunds. In fact, Justice Kavanaugh in his dissent, really chided his colleagues, saying, in your opinion, you didn't say what's going to happen regarding refunds. And so that's really not clear. Now today at that White House press briefing, President Trump was also not clear on what happens about refunds. Here's what he said when he was asked about it.
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D
We've taken in hundreds of billions of dollars. Not millions. Hundreds of billions of dollars. And so I said, well, what happens to all the money that we took in? It wasn't discussed. Wouldn't you think they would have put one sentence in there saying that keep the money or don't keep the money? Right. I guess it has to get litigated for the next two years.
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B
But this is something that has been thought about, of course, for months, ever since the Supreme Court heard arguments. And in those arguments, Neal Katyal, who represented the parties suing over these tariffs, he talked about what he thought could happen. He said the specific companies in this case, which is to say only a couple of companies, they'll get their refunds. But the other companies might have to go through an administrative process called an administrative protest, where they come to the government and say, hey, we paid these tariffs. Now those tariffs are illegal. Please give us our money back. Now, that can be a lengthy reimbursement procedure, but you can bet companies. Yeah. That paid tariffs that are now found illegal. Those companies are going to try to get their money back for sure. We just don't know how that's going to happen.
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A
I think a larger takeaway from all this is if you were hoping that there would be some clarity on all this because of a Supreme Court ruling, that is dashed hopes. That is not happening either. If you're a small business that was hoping to get, you know, some of that money back, that's not clear what happens next in litigation and how long that's going to take. That's not clear what exactly the president's going to do to, like, continue his tariff policy and the other avenues that he believes he has before him. That's a little more clear. But the timeline of that, the effects of that, also unclear. And this is the thing that frustrates a lot of voters when they're thinking about the economy. It is the chaos that is the point here. The lack of being able to plan when you're a small business or to plan if you're an individual or a consumer, is the thing that frustrates voters a lot. And there is nothing that right now seems clear that you can plan on, you can bank on in the next six months, which politically speaking, is not good if you are a Republican who wants to run on Trump's economy come the midterms.
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C
Well, and I've been fascinated by the statements that are coming in From Senator Mitch McConnell, who was the Republican leader from Kentucky, who essentially said the Supreme Court is validating the very important role that Congress is supposed to have here that the president bypassed. Meanwhile, other Republicans are saying this is a terrible decision. Really, it's all over the map. But in terms of the midterms, I do wonder if this gives Republican candidates maybe a little help, like maybe a little arm's distance from the tariff policy that is widely unpopular, or maybe not because the president's doubling down anyway, right?
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B
Yeah, I mean, that's the big question. He does have an out on tariffs now if he wants it. But he sure as heck has said as recently as yesterday how much he loves tariffs. And so is he really going to back off? It sure as heck seems like he's not going to. And also, really, we need to think about again, it's not that all tariffs are gone now, even if he doesn't impose new ones, those high tariffs on steel and aluminum, that's a big deal. I mean, there's plenty of products use steel and aluminum. So does he back down on those? Does he keep them going? I mean, there are so many forthcoming decisions that will determine how these affect voters and how they affect the midterms.
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A
Even though the stock market has been pretty consistently pretty strong, people's feelings about the economy and sort of the longer term picture of the economy isn't looking as good. And if Trump is doubling down on his key economic policies as things continue to get, you know, potentially kind of worse as we get into the midterms, that's a huge liability for him and the party. There are groups that, for example, have been trying to shore up support in the Latino communities and parts of Texas. And the biggest obstacle they have found in talking with those voters, they told me, is actually tariffs is like people
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C
Republicans trying to shore up, Republicans trying
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A
to shore up support that they won among Latino voters in those areas. They're like, yeah, this is the thing that comes up that people blame all the time. Now, if the economy was getting worse, like there's an alternate political reality here where if the economy was getting worse, even if it's slightly worse, he could say, look, I tried a thing and, you know, my hands were tied. But now he continues to own what whatever happens to the economy. And I'm sure he and his White House, as well as the Republican Party now needs to cross all their fingers and hope that things get better so that they can say, well, we have some of Trump's economic plans to thank for that.
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B
Right. But thus far, not only is the economy not looking super great, but also the tariffs haven't done what he said they would. We got data this week that showed the trade deficit in goods, for which is what tariffs are on, was at a record high last year. His tariffs did not shrink that trade deficit, and they haven't brought manufacturing employment roaring back. So he's doubling down on a policy that thus far hasn't done what he said it would.
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C
And he has repeatedly said he needs more time. And I also, while we're discussing the economy, I think we need to say that there are a lot of mixed signals on the direction that the economy is headed. Some, some signals are that the economy is doing okay. There was a better than expected jobs report, but then there was a GDP report that just came out that said the economy grew at a, at a pretty slow pace in, in the last quarter and, and on average over the past year. However, there was a government shutdown in the last quarter. So there are just so many mixed signals on the economy. But the numbers may not be as important as what the voters think about the economy. And, Ashley, you were giving me a knowing look.
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A
Yeah, I was about to say the place where data is not mixed is when you talk to voters, like, pretty consistently. Voters, including people who voted for Trump during the last election, say they feel very pessimistic about the economy, and it is not just about their current situation, which they're not happy about. They don't feel like things are gonna get better anytime soon, and that is not good.
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C
Well, maybe that is a good place to leave it for now with all the uncertainty that comes with it. Ashley, thank you so much for joining us on the pod.
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A
Yeah, glad to be here.
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C
And now we're gonn. And when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back. And I'm also back with Danielle Kurtzleben.
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B
Well, well, well.
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C
And Scott Detrow is here.
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E
I don't know if I'm at the right mic, but I'm here to collect an apology.
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B
I'm so confused.
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C
Oh, really? So, Scott, let us just. Hi, Danielle, Let us just introduce you. Scott Detrow is one of the hosts of All Things Considered, but of course, more importantly is a former host of the NPR politics podcast.
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E
More importantly.
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C
And are you gonna tell us why you're here today?
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E
I think you know why I'm here. For years on this podcast, I said I was 100% convinced that aliens were real. And Tam was skeptical and always said I was wrong. As you might have seen, former President Obama said in a podcast, aliens are real. Very declaratively, that made some news.
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C
Yes.
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E
He then clarified, saying, he's just saying the universe has so many stars and solar systems that of course there's life somewhere. But that led last night to President Trump, first of all, saying that Obama had talked about classified information.
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C
So, like, the aliens are classified.
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D
Yeah.
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E
He would only be talking about classified information if aliens were real. And secondly, saying that he was going to release all of the government files on UFOs, or as we call them now, UAPs. So I just feel really. I just feel really validated.
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C
I'm happy for you, Scott. And as you know, because we have a ongoing text chain about we do extraterrestrial life, my hardness on this is melting.
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E
I appreciate that.
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B
Wait, wait, Tam, are you a Scully here? You don't believe aliens are real?
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C
I am a Scully here. I just don't have space.
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E
I like being a Mulder.
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B
I mean, Mulder's cool.
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C
I am an order Muppet, and Scott is a chaos Muppet, and my order Muppet brain can't handle aliens.
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B
My two cents is that, I mean, Obama was just talking probabilistically, Right? He was just saying that they probably exist, but he should know.
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C
He's the president. Former president.
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B
I don't know. I think the deep state would cover up aliens and not even let the president know. That's my two cents.
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E
That's mostly how it works in movies.
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C
Ha ha.
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D
Yeah.
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E
Can I stay for the rest of Can't Let it Goes?
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C
Yes, please, Danielle. What can't you let go of?
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B
I am not new to this topic, but this is a true can't let it go. This has been stuck with me. I imagine you guys saw this workout video featuring RFK Jr. And Mr. Kid Rock.
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C
Yeah, I regret they're doing all sorts of things.
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B
They're riding an exercise bike and doing what I believe is a cold plunge. There's a hot tub, there's ping pong, there's, I believe, bench pressing. There's all sorts of stuff. And just I can't get over RFK working out in jeans. I can't. And like, look, I love me a workout as much as the next person. Maybe even more. And so, like, I'm just thinking of the chafing and the. No, let's just stick with that. The chafing guys.
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C
Well, the best thing I saw in reference to this was someone posted a photo from Arrested Development. Oh yeah, because Tobias Funkier or whatever, his Nameke Funke is a never nude. He's always wearing jeans of some kind, jean shorts. And that really spoke to me.
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B
I mean, same, same here. I mean, he gets into what I believe is a cold plunge tub with his jeans on. I mean, not that in a government video I would expect him to be.
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E
You could wear a bathing suit though.
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B
Yeah, absolutely. Right. No, I, this, you're the head of hhs. You are supposed to be some sort of an authority on health. Why are you showing us how to work out suboptimally? That's my question. I don't, I don't like it. I don't get it. I, I, I have real problems with this. However, as a reporter, I do do the bejesus out of any story. I do. And I have come to you with. RFK has explained this in the past. He told Fox News at one point, well, I just started doing that a long time ago because I would go hiking in the morning and then I'd go straight to the gym and I found it was convenient and now I'm used to it, so I just do it. I've spent enough time on this. Tam. What can't you let go?
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C
Well, what I cannot let go of is Alyssa Liu's gold winning performance at the Olympics. And the thing that was just so great about her performance is that she wasn't afraid to fail. And as a result, she was just having fun. And my gosh, gosh, I want to approach life that way. The other thing I can't let go of is her fornulum piercing. Like she has like this sparkliness on her teeth. It turns out it's not attached to the teeth. It is a piercing through the sort of connective tissue between her gums and her lip. And the part I really, really can't let go of is, is that she pierced it herself.
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E
Oh, I thought this was braces at first during the team skate. I was like, oh, but no, no, no, no, that's intense.
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B
A quote here, that is metal as hell.
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C
I had my sister hold up my lip and I was looking in the mirror and I had my piercing needle and then, yeah, I just put it through.
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B
Wow, I love her. That is so cool.
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C
I mean, not that I could do the skating part of being her. Also can't do the self piercing part of being her.
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E
You could try.
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B
No, no. I mean, this is an NPR bonus. Let's do the video.
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C
Yes. I realize that self piercing is far easier than learning how to skate, but I don't want to do either.
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B
I mean, I'm with you on the skating routine. I actually watched it on the Metro today just for a boost of happiness, like skating to disco music. She did. She skated to Donna Summer. That was just a cherry on top for me. It was. It was so happy. It was wonderful. Good for her.
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C
Injected in my veins.
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B
Yes.
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C
All right, that is it for today's pod. Our executive producer is Muthani Muturi. Our producers are Casey Morell and Bria Suggs. Our editor is Rachel Bay. Special thanks to Krishnadev Kalamer. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.
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B
I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I also cover the White House.
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E
Oh, I'm Scott Detrow. I used to be on this podcast all the time.
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C
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.