The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: The President Versus the Pope
Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Miles Parks, with Danielle Kurtzleben (White House Correspondent) and Jason DeRose (Religion Correspondent)

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on an escalating public clash between President Trump and Pope Leo XIV. Triggered by President Trump’s recent social media attacks and a viral AI-generated image, the discussion examines the roots, rhetoric, and implications of this unusual confrontation. The episode delves into the historical context of US presidential relations with the Vatican, the role of religion in American politics, and the potential impact on key voting constituencies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Weekend’s Inciting Incidents

• Trump’s Social Media Post (00:54)

  • President Trump lashed out at Pope Leo XIV, calling him “weak, very liberal, soft on crime, and wanting to have nuclear weapons in Iran.”
  • Trump publicly doubled down, saying:

    “We don’t like a pope that’s going to say that it’s okay to have a nuclear weapon. We don’t want a pope that says crime is okay in our cities. I don’t like it. I’m not a big fan of Pope Leo. He’s a very liberal person and a man that doesn’t believe in stopping crime.” (Trump, 01:17)

  • Clarification: Jason DeRose notes the Pope has “never said that he wanted Iran to have nuclear weapons” and is speaking more generally about peace and humanitarian concerns. (01:35)

• Viral AI-Generated Image (02:10)

  • Trump posted—and later deleted—an AI image with himself depicted in flowing robes, glowing hands, and surrounded by biblical imagery, closely resembling Jesus.
  • Danielle Kurtzleben describes the backlash, even among Trump supporters. Riley Gaines, a conservative commentator, responded:

    “God shall not be mocked on social media.” (02:55)

  • Trump claimed the image was meant to depict him as a doctor rather than as Jesus.

2. Long-simmering Tensions: Trump vs. The Vatican (03:35)

• Relations have been tense for months.
• Key Points of Conflict:
  • Immigration: US Catholic bishops passed resolutions and legal briefs urging humane policy (seen as opposing Trump).
  • Global Peace: The Pope’s outspoken anti-war stance, including opposition to Trump’s Iran rhetoric, is interpreted by Trump as personal criticism.
  • Differing Wavelengths: Danielle remarks,

    “This is Donald Trump trying to throw punches and Pope Leo XIV operating on an entirely different level… The Pope seems to be making this about gospels, humanity, peace, about very particular Christian and Catholic values, which is totally a different wavelength than Donald Trump is operating on.” (05:11)

3. The Nature of Papal Leadership vs. Presidential Politics

• Papal Election and Tenure (06:10–07:05)

  • The Pope is elected for life, unaffected by polls or popularity cycles.
  • Papal elections are considered religious and liturgical acts aimed at eternal truth, contrasted with US elections’ focus on popularity and cycles.
  • Jason recalls interviews with cardinals emphasizing these differences.

• Misconceptions about Authority

  • Trump appears to conflate the Pope’s moral authority with political power.
  • Pope’s criticisms are broad, rarely directed personally at politicians.

4. Political and Public Reactions in the US

• Conservatives and Republican Responses (08:08)
  • Some conservative figures (e.g., Riley Gaines, Megyn Kelly) publicly criticized Trump’s posts, a rare divergence within Trump’s base.
  • Despite outcry, support remains:

    “He still owns this party is what I’m saying. So even if there is this outcry, I’m not sure how long lasting it’s gonna be.” (Danielle, 09:21)

  • VP J.D. Vance (Catholic) on Fox News:

    “It would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality… And let the President… stick to dictating American public policy.” (09:54)

  • Danielle notes the Pope sees war and deportation as moral issues.

5. Papal Response and Moral Framing

• Pope’s Official Stance (11:12–11:41)
  • The Pope asserted he is “not afraid of the president,” focusing on the gospel, peace, and human dignity.
  • From Africa, Pope Leo XIV said:

    “I will continue to speak out loudly against war, looking to promote peace, promoting dialogue and multilateral relationships among the states to look for just solutions to the problems. Too many people are suffering in the world today. Too many innocent people are being killed.” (11:26)

  • Jason DeRose highlights that the Pope is undeterred by accusations of being "weak."

6. Historical Context: Presidents and Popes

• Past Presidential Relations (13:39–17:00)

  • The Vatican’s positions cannot be directly mapped onto the US partisan spectrum (e.g., liberal on poverty and the death penalty, conservative on abortion).
  • Danielle references George W. Bush and John Paul II, noting previous respectful (if tense) interactions even when disagreeing on, e.g., the Iraq War.

• Trump’s History of Vatican Clashes

  • In 2016, Pope Francis questioned whether a border-wall builder could call himself Christian, further fueling tension.

7. Trump’s Complicated Use of Religion

• Trump does not present himself as a devout Christian; his public statements often use religion as a political weapon:

  “When he brings up religion, it is not often in the context of belief and following certain values. It is very often about politics and how you’re voting.” (Danielle, 17:06)

• Incidents like calling “Second Corinthians” “Two Corinthians” reflect limited biblical literacy.

• Distinct Roles:

  • Jason highlights that Trump is usually surrounded by religious figures who agree with him, but the Pope, leading 1.5 billion Catholics, commands a different kind of global and moral authority, especially as an American-born pope speaking English to the US public—a rare dynamic. (18:25–20:02)

8. Political Implications: Electoral Impact

• Catholics vs. Evangelicals (20:17–23:32)

  • White evangelicals remain firmly pro-Trump, with strong cultural-political rather than theological identity.
  • Trump’s perceived “anointed” or “protected by God” status among supporters intensified after the 2024 assassination attempt.
  • Catholic voters, comprising around 20% of the U.S. population, are more evenly split and could be more affectively swayed by these developments.

• Potential Drip-Drip Effect:

  • Danielle notes that while the core base is unlikely to defect, “this might add… to this drip, drip, drip of things you do not appreciate about the president.”
  • For swing or moderate Catholics, these events might tip opinion in a close election.

• Trump’s Achievements for Religious Conservatives

  • Despite recent controversies, many religious supporters remain focused on Trump’s record: religious freedom, judicial appointments, and policy promises central to their support. (23:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump’s attack on the Pope:

  “I don’t like it. I’m not a big fan of Pope Leo. He’s a very liberal person and he’s a man that doesn’t believe in stopping crime.” (Trump, 01:28)

• Danielle on the nature of the “feud”:

  “…this is not two men trading blows. This is Donald Trump trying to throw punches and Pope Leo XIV operating on an entirely different level.” (05:13)

• Pope Leo XIV on peace:

  “I will continue to speak out loudly against war…Too many people are suffering in the world today. Too many innocent people are being killed.” (Pope Leo XIV, 11:26)

• J.D. Vance (Vice President):

  “It would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality…” (09:54)

• Danielle on evangelical support:

  “They view him as anointed and even protected by God… I would be hard pressed to imagine what blasphemous or sacrilegious thing Trump could do to alienate them…” (21:41)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump's Social Media Posts and Papal Criticism: 00:54–03:23
• Long-Term Tensions and Context: 03:35–07:05
• Political and Conservative Backlash: 08:08–10:30
• Pope's Response and Peace Vigil: 11:07–12:27
• Historical Precedents: 13:18–17:00
• Trump’s Relationship to Religion: 17:00–20:02
• Impact on Key Faith Voters: 20:17–23:32

Summary Takeaway

This episode captures the complexity and gravity of a direct confrontation between a sitting US President and the Pope. Rather than a tit-for-tat feud, it’s a clash of moral and political languages—one grounded in electoral cycles and partisan loyalty, the other in enduring spiritual traditions. While unlikely to shift Trump’s core evangelical base, the controversy may have a greater impact with US Catholics, a politically crucial demographic. At its heart, the episode illustrates both the entanglement and the deep differences between American politics and global religious authority in a hyper-connected age.