The Trump Administration Takes On Higher Ed

Summary

The Trump Administration Takes On Higher Ed The NPR Politics Podcast, July 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, host Deepa Shivaram and co-host Domenico Montanaro delve into the Trump administration's recent confrontations with some of the nation’s most prestigious universities. Joining the discussion is Sequoyah Carrillo, NPR's education reporter, who provides in-depth analysis of the ongoing conflicts between the administration and institutions like Harvard, Columbia, Brown, and Duke.

Central Issues of the Conflict

At the heart of these disputes lies the Trump administration's allegations of unequal treatment and favoritism in hiring and admissions practices at elite universities. Sequoyah Carrillo explains that while some cases cite anti-Semitism—particularly around protests related to the war in Gaza—others, such as Duke University, focus on claims of preferential treatment based on race.

“The Trump administration is skipping all that and withholding funding first.”
— Sequoyah Carrillo [02:02]

The administration’s approach deviates from standard protocol, which typically involves a thorough investigation process before any funding is withheld. Instead, the administration imposes immediate financial penalties, prompting universities to respond swiftly, often through legal battles or settlements.

Details of Settlements and Their Implications

Several universities have opted to settle rather than contest the administration's claims in court. For instance, Columbia University agreed to pay $220 million and implement measures to combat anti-Semitism, including comprehensive training programs. A particularly controversial aspect of Columbia’s settlement is the appointment of a third-party resolution monitor, raising concerns about academic freedom.

“There is a lot of trepidation, especially from academics.”
— Sequoyah Carrillo [07:10]

Brown University also reached a settlement, agreeing to pay $50 million over ten years for professional development in Rhode Island, despite being found of no wrongdoing. Unlike Columbia, Brown's agreement does not involve direct payments to the federal government but includes obligations like conducting campus climate surveys without external oversight.

Political Context and Public Response

Domenico Montanaro highlights that these actions are part of a broader cultural war strategy by the Trump administration, which seeks to challenge institutions perceived as bastions of liberal ideology. Public opinion remains deeply divided along party lines, with a significant majority of Republicans supporting the administration’s stance, while Democrats and independents largely oppose it.

“83% of Republicans approved of Trump's approach.”
— Domenico Montanaro [08:48]

This polarization reflects longstanding tensions between conservative critics and elite academic institutions, now exacerbated by the administration's aggressive use of federal funding as leverage.

Impact on Students and Faculty

The repercussions of these disputes extend to the student body and academic staff. While undergraduate students may experience changes like mandatory anti-Semitism training, graduate students, particularly those engaged in research, face more uncertain futures. The instability within academia can hinder the recruitment and retention of talented individuals, further straining educational institutions.

“Undergrads would likely have little interaction with changes.”
— Sequoyah Carrillo [12:36]

Public universities are especially vulnerable due to limited financial resources, making them more susceptible to federal pressure compared to their private counterparts, which often have substantial endowments to withstand such challenges.

Broader Implications for American Institutions

Montanaro emphasizes that the administration's tactics represent a multifaceted attack on American societal pillars, targeting institutions that embody progressive values. This approach is not isolated but part of a comprehensive ideology aimed at reshaping societal norms and governance.

“This is a really multi pronged attack on these places.”
— Sequoyah Carrillo [13:38]

Moreover, the funding cuts affect critical areas like medical research and long-term projects, impacting not just the institutions but also the broader community reliant on these academic contributions.

Conclusion

The Trump administration’s actions against higher education institutions mark a significant escalation in political interference within academia. By leveraging federal funds to enforce ideological conformity, the administration challenges the autonomy of universities and shifts the landscape of American higher education. The long-term effects on educational quality, academic freedom, and institutional integrity remain to be seen as these conflicts continue to unfold.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and readers alike.

Transcript

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[Deepa Shivaram]

Zip hey, it's Deepa Shivaram. It can feel impossible to find your next favorite podcast. And hey, we're so glad you're here listening to us, the NPR Politics Podcast. But when you want to switch it up, check out NPR's Pod Club newsletter. Sign up and you'll get fresh podcast recommendations every week handpicked by the people that live for this stuff. You can subscribe for free using the link in today's show notes [e-mail] podclub okay, here's the show. Hi, this is Val from Denver, Colorado, and I'm heading home from an event at the Denver Botanic Gardens where local artists are scattered through the blooming flowers and play into the evening. This podcast was recorded at 1:07pm on Thursday, July 31, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I will still.

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

Be dreaming about the perfect garden.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Enjoy the show. Not too shabby.

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's very pleasant. Denver's a really great city.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, a lot of cool stuff there. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Deepa Shivaram]

And joining us on the show today is NPR education reporter Sequoyah Carrillo. Welcome back to the podcast Sequoyah.

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

Thanks for having me.

[Deepa Shivaram]

All right, so today on the show, we're getting into the Trump administration's fight with the nation's top universities. In the last couple of weeks, Harvard, Columbia, Brown and Duke universities, among others, have all been in the news over these conflicts. So, Sequoyah New what is at the center of these conflicts?

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

So at the center of many of these disputes, though not all, is the alleged mistreatment of Jewish students at these elite colleges. And the Trump administration withholding funds or freezing funds in response to that treatment. In many cases, the Trump administration is saying that these schools failed to foster a safe environment for Jewish students during the protests over the war in Gaza. So you'll see a lot of the disputes citing anti Semitic as a reason for the investigations. But it's definitely not just anti Semitism. You can look at somewhere like Duke, for instance, where that isn't mentioned at all in the freezing of their funding. Instead, it's talking about preferential treatment in hiring based on race. Or at many schools, the administration is investigating admissions practices based on race, which isn't something unusual for colleges. The Office of Civil Rights at the Department of Education is pretty much there to investigate complaints like this. But there is a protocol for these investigations. There are steps that you have to follow legally in order to solve the complaints. And the very last step is that you can withhold funding, and they typically don't. The Trump administration is skipping all that and withholding funding first. And even when all the schools are saying, we haven't done anything wrong, they are withholding funding and then launching investigations. And that's where you see someone like Harvard taking this to court, saying they are acting in an illegal way, while others are just biting the bullet in some ways, saying like, let's get this money back and let's just settle.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Okay, got it. And so these settlements, I mean, what do they look like? What have you been seeing with that?

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

So the one that's made the biggest headlines is definitely Colombia. It's a lot of money. They paid $220 million to the federal government and they agreed to dissolve existing DEI programs and also really bring in a lot of resources to combat antisemitism, including a school wide antisemitism training. But maybe the most controversial part of settlement was their agreement to a resolution monitor. So that will be someone who's a third party. They're not part of the government or part of Columbia, but they're going to be coming into Columbia to make sure that the school sticks to this agreement. And many people are worried about what that caveat means for academic freedom. Because Columbia is a really rich university, they're able to kind of broker this deal. But if you put up that outside monitor is something that the government's allowed to put into schools, that gets a lot of people worried.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Okay, so you mentioned Duke University. What did that situation look like at Duke?

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

There was a letter that went out a few days ago from the Education Department and also from Health and Human Services that was looking at both Duke Health as well as Duke Law Review and how they're alleging preferential treatment in hiring and sometimes in admissions. And Duke is the most recent one to receive a letter like that.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Okay, but there's kind of a different situation with Brown. Talk to me about how that unfolded.

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

Just yesterday, actually, Brown announced a settlement. This has been a school that has been found of no wrongdoing. And they were also up against those allegations of admissions and hiring practices under Title 6. But the administration found nothing. And so they did settle. And it's a little bit different. They're paying $50 million over 10 years for professional development in Rhode Island. So they're not paying any to the federal government. But there is money going out and there's a few other demands. I mean, they have to have a third party campus climate survey and there's no oversight like there is at Columbia. But this was still a university settling with the administration when there was no wrongdoing found.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, that's interesting, Domenico. I mean, talk me through some of the politics that are at play here. This isn't happening in isolation.

[Domenico Montanaro]

No. And this is part of what Trump ran on in 2024, really. He was fueled by the culture war and culture war ideology. So he's going after these universities, which have long been punching bags for Republican rhetoric. Past campaigns, you've heard lots of candidates saying things like, this must have been an idea cooked up in the Harvard faculty lounge. And that was always a big piece of it. And you know, I mean, we should say there were some very real issues on some campuses, you know, where Jewish students didn't feel comfortable or protected. But what we're seeing with the Trump administration is a redefinition of civil rights. It's often now when you see, oh, there was a civil rights complaint that was filed, it really doesn't have to do with the traditionally marginalized or discriminated against groups. It more often than not has to do with diversity, equity and inclusion. And really what they see as anti white bias.

[Deepa Shivaram]

And I mean, Sequoia, I'm curious if you could talk a little bit more about the response that students are feeling and faculty are feeling as these lawsuits kind of play out. And Domenico, I also am curious how the public has been responding to this from a political perspective.

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

Yeah, you're gonna see these schools frame them as successes. Right. Because it means that the investigation's over and that the funding is released. But when you start talking to people about what it means, there's definitely a lot of trepidation, especially from academics, especially from legal scholars who just see, like I said, Harvard is in court arguing that the Office of Civil Rights has not followed correct protocol and they have a really good legal argument. So when you're seeing schools desperate enough to kind of jump over that and say, let's just finish this and get it done. There's a lot of feelings from the staff and from the students. And with Brown's announcement yesterday, they had an entire section that was like, why did Brown settle? And they went through every single reason, because I think that they knew, seeing what happened with Columbia, they knew that people were going to be nervous about something like this.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, there is a sense when you talk about public opinion that the Trump administration is going too far on a lot of different things. But there's huge splits, obviously, by political party, which, you know, I feel like we can talk about with every single thing that the Trump administration does, because there was a poll, for example, in May from the Associated Press and RC that found 56% of people disapproved of how Trump was handling issues related to colleges. But 83% of Republicans approved of Trump's approach. Half of them wanted to withhold funding from universities. Strong majority majorities, though, of Democrats as well as two thirds of independents said that they disapproved of how Trump was handling these things.

[Deepa Shivaram]

All right. We're going to take a quick break there, and we'll be back in a moment. Hi, it's Katherine Marr, CEO of npr. Federal funding for public media has been eliminated. That means that the NPR network is moving forward in an uncharted future. But our commitment to you will never waver. Please give today to support the kind of journalism that democracy relies upon. Make your [e-mail] thank you.

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[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Deepa Shivaram]

And we're back sequoyah. We've been talking about investigations at a few private universities, right? Columbia, Brown, Duke, et cetera. But the administration has also been investigating public schools across the country in these public colleges and give us a sense of what's playing out there. And is it similar?

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

Yeah. So back in March, actually, the administration released a list of 45 schools, the majority of which were public universities. And public universities just have a lot more to lose. We saw a kind of high profile version of this a few weeks ago with the University of Virginia, where the president stepped down after mounting pressure from one of these investigations. And that was a really powerful message to send to a lot of colleges. I think we hear the most about these private schools because, number one, they have the money to fight and they have the resources to kind of get through a few months without this federal funding. But public universities, it's a totally different ballgame and they sometimes don't even have the money to pay out a settlement. So they're a lot more at the whim of the federal government.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Domenico. I mean, you mentioned this earlier, right? That Republicans have for a long time criticized liberal elite universities. The chatter that's happening in the Harvard faculty lounge, et cetera, et cetera. But in the context of, especially when you consider Trump's first term versus now, is what they're doing new?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I think a lot of it is new. I mean, before, it was often just talk. Trump, though, using federal money as leverage to get what his administration wants is very new. I mean, there's been a lot of talk with Republicans feeling irked that the most elite schools in the country, they feel, push kids or pressure them to be more liberal, and they want access to those schools, and they don't want those schools turning out kids who they feel are never going to be conservative. But this use of government funds for things that are totally unrelated sometimes, you know, pressuring schools, you know, that are taking money for medical research and the like, you know, to say if you don't change your DEI policies, then we're going to withhold those funds. That's not really something that any previous administration has been willing to try and go do.

[Deepa Shivaram]

Yeah, Sequoia. I mean, let's talk about how this affects students, right? For students who are currently attending these schools, undergrads and graduate students, I mean, what does this really mean for them?

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

It's a great question. We don't totally know the answer yet. But just in terms of the way these settlements are structured, so far it looks like undergrads would likely have little interaction with changes other than like if you're at Columbia and you'll now have to undergo a school wide antisemitism training. There are things like that that could impact your day to day for grad, little bit more complicated. There's a lot of PhDs whose funding is tied up in these fights. And it just puts academia in an unstable place which is difficult to then attract students.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I have to say what they're doing on universities and colleges isn't in a vacuum. I mean, this is part of an ideological push by the Trump administration to go after the pillars of American society, the institutions that they feel have made things socially more liberal than the administration wants to see. So this is a really multi pronged attack on these places.

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

And a lot of this funding, it's not going to what you would think of when they're citing it as like an attack on liberal leaning universities. A lot of this is like cancer research. A lot of this is long term trials for little kids. Like there are real people who are being caught up in this far past. Just the students. Yeah.

[Deepa Shivaram]

All right. We're going to leave it there for today. Sequoyah Carillo, thank you so much for joining us.

[Sequoyah Carrillo]

Thank you.

[Deepa Shivaram]

I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover the White House.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Deepa Shivaram]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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[Deepa Shivaram]

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[Deepa Shivaram]

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