Trump Administration Ignores The Experts As It Cancels $500 Million For Vaccines

Summary

NPR Politics Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Trump Administration Ignores The Experts As It Cancels $500 Million For Vaccines
Release Date: August 8, 2025
Host/Authors: Ashley Lopez, Domenico Montanaro, and Selena Simmons-Duffin

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Ashley Lopez, Domenico Montanaro, and Selena Simmons-Duffin delve into a controversial decision by the Trump administration to cancel approximately $500 million in contracts aimed at developing mRNA vaccines. This move has sparked significant debate, particularly concerning the administration's apparent disregard for expert advice.

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Cancellation of mRNA Vaccine Contracts

The episode opens with Ashley Lopez outlining the central issue: the Trump administration's termination of contracts for mRNA vaccine development. This decision represents a substantial financial rollback in the realm of biomedical research and public health.

Ashley Lopez [01:38]: "This week, the Trump administration canceled roughly $500 million in contracts to develop mRNA vaccines. Today on the podcast, we're talking about how this move follows a pattern of the administration ignoring the advice of subject matter experts."

---

Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s Stance

Selena Simmons-Duffin provides an in-depth look at Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., highlighting his long-standing skepticism towards vaccines. Kennedy's background includes suing pharmaceutical companies and regulatory bodies, culminating in his denunciation of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines as "a crime against humanity."

Selena Simmons-Duffin [02:00]: "Kennedy has built his reputation and fortune advocating against vaccines... he called them a crime against humanity."

Kennedy justified the cancellation by asserting that mRNA vaccines are ineffective for upper respiratory diseases and pose greater risks than benefits. However, this stance has been widely criticized by experts in infectious diseases and biosecurity, who argue that mRNA technology holds significant promise despite its imperfections.

Selena Simmons-Duffin [02:48]: "Experts in infectious disease and biosecurity overwhelmingly panned this decision. They say that this is new technology that has a lot of promise... pulling the investment really makes no sense."

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Pattern of Distrust Towards Experts

The discussion shifts to Kennedy's broader pattern of distrust towards established scientific experts and institutions. His dismissal of conventional wisdom extends to various conspiracy theories, including false claims about Wi-Fi causing cancer and HIV not causing AIDS.

Selena Simmons-Duffin [03:37]: "A fierce skepticism. Right. So now, even though he is the authority, he is the highest-ranking health official... he's really leaning into the distrust of health agencies like the CDC, NIH, FDA..."

Under Kennedy's leadership, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has seen a significant reduction in staff, with around 20,000 employees departing. This exodus has further weakened the department's capacity to function effectively.

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Political Reactions and Partisan Divide

The hosts explore the political fallout of Kennedy's decisions, noting that even some Republicans who initially supported his confirmation are now expressing concerns. Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, a physician, criticized the cancellation, highlighting the potential concession of crucial technology to China.

Senator Bill Cassidy [05:42]: "The decision was unfortunate and that Kennedy has conceded to China an important technology needed to combat cancer and infectious disease."

However, Cassidy's response has been limited to statements on social media, with Selena Simmons-Duffin expressing disappointment over the lack of more substantial actions, such as congressional hearings.

Selena Simmons-Duffin [05:51]: "He could hold a hearing about mRNA technology... the process of grant making for NIH grants involves so many hands. This kind of unilateral decision by the Secretary is unprecedented and really alarming to a lot of scientists."

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Broader Administration Trends of Ignoring Expertise

Domenico Montanaro expands the discussion to other areas where the Trump administration has sidelined experts. Examples include the implementation of tariffs despite economic warnings, the dismissal of the Bureau of Labor Statistics head over unfavorable job data, and the general undermining of governmental institutions.

Domenico Montanaro [09:06]: "Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics... undermining institutions within the government, outside of the government, the media and elsewhere."

These actions are part of a larger strategy to consolidate power and maintain a base that is increasingly distrustful of expert opinions and established institutions.

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Potential Real-World Effects

The conversation turns to the immediate and long-term consequences of dismissing expert advice. While the full impact may not yet be evident, concerns include:

• Public Health Risks: Reduced funding and support for vaccine research could hinder responses to future pandemics and seasonal diseases.

  Selena Simmons-Duffin [12:01]: "Coming into fall vaccine season... how insurers are going to respond to these changing recommendations."

• Erosion of Public Trust: Continued disregard for experts may lead to a broader loss of faith in governmental and scientific institutions.

  Selena Simmons-Duffin [16:07]: "The NIH is the biggest public funder of scientific research... this further erosion of public trust is really concerning."

• Political Ramifications: Potential backlash from the public and healthcare sectors could undermine the administration's standing, although former President Trump himself may remain insulated due to his political positioning.

  Kara Montanaro [13:40]: "Unless you have leaders that are able to say... you're gonna continue to see this erosion of trust in the government."

---

Long-Term Implications

Looking ahead, Selena emphasizes the detrimental effects on scientific progress and public health infrastructure. The cancellation of grants and loss of expertise could have enduring repercussions that extend far beyond the immediate financial losses.

Selena Simmons-Duffin [14:55]: "There's a concern that the disinvestment in scientific research is going to have a really long tail... it's hard to know... we saw during the COVID-19 pandemic that public trust can make or break a response."

Kara adds that this ongoing mistrust reinforces a partisan lens through which all policy and factual information is interpreted, further deepening societal divisions.

Kara Montanaro [16:07]: "We're gonna continue to see everything viewed through a partisan lens... erosion of trust in the government, that trust in the media and people believing what they want to believe."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes by highlighting the critical need for trust in expert institutions and the dangers posed by political leaders who undermine this trust. The cancellation of mRNA vaccine contracts serves as a stark example of how ignoring expert advice can have far-reaching negative consequences for public health, scientific progress, and societal trust in government.

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Notable Quotes

• Selena Simmons-Duffin [02:48]: "Experts in infectious disease and biosecurity overwhelmingly panned this decision. They say that this is new technology that has a lot of promise... pulling the investment really makes no sense."

• Kara Montanaro [05:19]: "You should be open enough to say, I don't have all the answers. And I'm gonna go to those who are the best at understanding this stuff."

• Selena Simmons-Duffin [14:55]: "There's a concern that the disinvestment in scientific research is going to have a really long tail."

---

This detailed examination by The NPR Politics Podcast underscores the critical interplay between political decisions and expert scientific guidance, emphasizing the long-term ramifications of sidelining established expertise.

Transcript

[Ollie]

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[Kara]

This is Kara in Coeur d', Alene, Idaho.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

I'm getting ready to go out and pick raspberries for my raspberry bushes in the backyard.

[Ashley Lopez]

This podcast was recorded at 12:38pm Eastern Time on Friday, August 8, 2025.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Things may have changed since you heard this, but I'll be enjoying either raspberries and cream or raspberry crisp or even raspberry sorbet. Okay, here's the show.

[Kara]

Well, you know what they say when you pick raspberries? You listen to the NPR Politics podcast? Do they say that?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yep.

[Ashley Lopez]

I will say, like, I know gardening is something that I eventually want to get into, but anything in a bush, I'm just afraid something's gonna get me.

[Kara]

Not me.

[Ashley Lopez]

Put my hand in there.

[Kara]

Yeah, I'm a city kid. Sorry.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, yeah, me too.

[Kara]

I don't feel like digging around in the dirt anyways.

[Ashley Lopez]

All right. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Kara]

I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and.

[Ashley Lopez]

Correspondent and NPR Health policy correspondent Selena Simmons Duffin is here as well. Hi, Selena.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Hello.

[Ashley Lopez]

And this week, the Trump administration canceled roughly $500 million in contracts to develop MRNA vaccines. Today on the podcast, we're talking about how this move follows a pattern of the administration ignoring the advice of subject matter experts. Selena, let's start with you. What was the that Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Gave for canceling these contracts in the first place?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Well, you know, the context here is that Kennedy has built his reputation and fortune advocating against vaccines. You know, he sued drug makers and regulators in particular. When it comes to the COVID 19 MRNA vaccines, he's called them a crime against humanity. So this week, he posted a video explaining the decision, and he simply said he had reviewed the evidence and and determined that MRNA vaccines don't work well for upper respiratory diseases and that there are more risks than benefits. And so they're just gonna cancel these contracts. Of course, experts in infectious disease and biosecurity overwhelmingly panned this decision. They say that this is new technology that has a lot of promise. It's not perfect, but, you know, there's a lot to explore in this research, and pulling the investment really makes no sense.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, but this goes beyond vaccines. Right. Like, Kennedy has long questioned experts. I mean, how does this fit into his larger worldview here?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah, you know, distrust of experts, distrust of conventional wisdom, that has been a hallmark of how Kennedy operates. He has espoused a lot of conspiracy theories on all sorts of topics like WI fi causes cancer, HIV might not really cause aids, antidepressants are linked to school shootings. And I want to be clear that none of those things are true, but those are things that he has said in the past. And, you know, he was asked about this during the confirmation process. I keep thinking about this one moment when Senator Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia, asked Kennedy about all of these conspiracy theories. And here's what Kennedy said.

[Kara]

My father told me when I was 13 years old, he said people in authority lie and that the job of a citizen and every democracy is to maintain a fierce skepticism.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

A fierce skepticism. Right. So now, even though he is the authority, he is the highest ranking health official in the federal government, he's also really leaning into the distrust of health agencies like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Institutes for Health, the Food and Drug Administration, you know, ousting top scientists, cutting a lot of staff. 20,000 staff members have left the HHS agencies over the time that he has been in charge. So this is really profoundly a key part of how he views the world and how he is operating in this role.

[Kara]

You know, and we all should have a fierce skepticism. Right. I mean, that's part of the hallmark of being a journalist. You should be skeptical of those in power, but it means going in search of the best information, the consensus from experts, and trying to get the best information, not the stuff that. That I necessarily agree with and say, oh, there's a link, a fringe study that agrees with this thing that I have a sense of. No, you should be open enough to say, I don't have all the answers. And I'm gonna go to those who are the best at understanding this stuff. And I think it's one of the bigger problems in society that if you can't agree on a shared set of facts, then it makes it really hard to then argue about what the policy prescription should be to then solve those problems in the best public policy kind of way.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

I will say this. With Kennedy, there have been a few Republicans Including Republicans who confirmed Kennedy, raising concerns about this move to cancel these MRNA research grants. In particular, I'm thinking about Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy. He posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, that the decision was unfortunate and that Kennedy has, quote, conceded to China an important technology needed to combat cancer and infectious disease.

[Kara]

But he voted for him. Right? He voted to confirm him. He's not doing much more than putting out a statement. And there's not a whole lot that you can.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Once you put somebody in the job. And there were lots of concerns that a lot of people raised beforehand.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah. I mean, Senator Bill Cassidy is a physician. He has spoken passionately about vaccines and about the suffering that they can spare people, the lives that can be saved. But he could do more here than just say, this is unfortunate on social media. You know, he could hold a hearing about MRNA technology. If there is evidence that this isn't a good investment, then let Kennedy show it to Congress and make the case and hear from other people about whether to defend their view that this is a bad decision to cancel these contracts. I should also say that the process of grant making for NIH grants involves so many hands. And so this kind of unilateral decision by the Secretary is unprecedented and really alarming to a lot of scientists.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And, Domenico, how do these responses from folks like Cassidy compare with what we're hearing from Trump's base when it comes to this decision?

[Kara]

Well, I mean, so much of this has roots in Covid, in the COVID pandemic. And even though Trump pushed to develop these vaccines, that did allow people to then go out to restaurants again and, you know, for the most part, found to be very safe. You know, Trump has not come out to say, oh, you know, we should continue this, because he's stuck in this difficult position because a lot of people in his base really are distrustful of the experts of the vaccines. And he's had to kind of walk this line because Covid was really a political problem for him, that he wanted to find a way out of these vaccines helped him get out of that, even though he wound up losing the 2020 election. You could argue for mishandling the COVID pandemic, but a lot of people within the MAGA movement really don't think that trusting the cdc, trusting the vaccine experts is the way to go. And that's made it more difficult for Trump to be able to voice support for the kind of vaccines that he helped push to develop.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And, Selena, this isn't the first time that Kennedy has, like, sideline Experts at the Department of Health and Human Services. Can you give me other examples of when he's done something like this?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah. You know, one thing that got a lot of attention is when Kennedy fired the full panel of outside experts on vaccines that the CDC uses to help them make good recommendations. He said he was not going to mess with the ACIP panel when he was going through the confirmation process. And then he fired 17 of these experts and put in a handpicked roster of people who had, you know, historically spread misinformation about vaccines. The reduction in force that he oversaw, you know, 20,000 staff members from HHS, including really top scientists gone from the agency, I think is another really key example. And changing the recommendations for pregnant women to get the COVID vaccine, that's another example of Kennedy has put his judgment ahead of people with expertise in particular fields.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, the loss of expertise doesn't seem to be unique to hhs. Domenico, where else have you heard of the Trump administration either ignoring the advice of experts or losing many altogether?

[Kara]

Well, it's really foundational to Trump's political movement and has been for the last decade. You know, we've seen on trade, for example, we have lots of experts warning that tariffs could lead to higher prices. Already are. In some sectors, businesses have been stockpiling and absorbing some of the costs for now. But experts don't expect that to last forever. Trump's team says, forget that, that's nonsense. Don't believe them. Believe us. They've been wrong about so many things in the past, and that's how they kind of keep everybody in line, at least in their base. Then when it comes to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, for example, Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, an agency that is not usually finding itself the target of politics. But Trump was upset with the numbers that came out that showed a softening labor and it doesn't help his political goals. So he's gonna then undermine those who are experts. And they've done this repeatedly when you're talking about undermining institutions within the government, outside of the government, the media and elsewhere. And that's really one major way that right wing populists across the globe have been able to retain and consolidate power.

[Ashley Lopez]

All right, we're going to take a quick break. More in a second.

[Domenico Montanaro]

This message comes from Cook Unity. Enjoy high quality culinary masterpieces for a fraction of restaurant takeout prices. Subscriptions start as low as $11ameal. Skip deliveries, Pause or cancel anytime. Get what you're craving. Try fresh, great tasting meal delivery made by your favorite celebrity chefs. Go to cookunity.com code or enter code code before checkout for free premium meals for life terms and conditions apply. Go to cookunity.com for details.

[Ollie]

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[Domenico Montanaro]

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[Ashley Lopez]

And we're back. We were talking a moment ago about the other ways in which the Trump administration has moved away from the advice of subject matter experts. Selena, have we begun to see any real world effects from that?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah, when it comes to health, I think it's a little too soon to say so. There were all of the reduction in force, the firings of staff across HHS happened in April, but they were on hold for a long time. And from what I've heard, health agencies are kind of held together with duct tape. And I don't know that all of the things that aren't going to be happening, we haven't really felt that as the public yet. But there have been concerns about food safety, which is one thing that could hit the public. I would say coming into fall vaccine season, it's hard to know whether vaccinations for flu and other kind of seasonal infectious diseases is going to dip and how insurers are going to respond to these changing recommendations. I think those are big open questions. The other thing is that in the fall is going to be open enrollment for insurance. And there are there have been a lot of changes to insurance that health policy experts talking about expertise have warned are going to lead to many, many, many millions of people losing their health insurance and becoming uninsured. As we've been saying, there's been this kind of blanket well, maybe that won't happen. And I think that we're Coming up onto the months where we might actually see lots of people losing health insurance. And, you know, the proof will be in the pudding. Right. Like, do these policies lead to people becoming uninsured or not?

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And I imagine Domenico, that this would lead to definitely political consequences, whether it's a bad Covid or flu season or people losing insurance. I mean, what do you see could be the political cost of all this for Trump?

[Kara]

Well, I don't know if there's any political cost for him because it did maybe cost him the 2020 presidential election, but he's not running again. He's barred from running again in 2028, so it may not affect him. Of course, it all comes back to the idea of competence in government. And it's one thing that former President Biden was really tasked with, which was to show that there was a different way to govern and that if you had good governance then that could restore faith in these institutions that. Well, that didn't happen. Then it just kind of came back to Trump being able to say, see, you can't trust any of these folks. And their words just don't mean anything. And when it comes to expertise and the trusting of expertise, I mean, just we mentioned Bill Cassidy and the Senator from Louisiana and that tweet that he put out or that X post. You know, when I looked at Cassidy's post, the first reply I saw was one that said, can you disclose how much you receive from PhRMA? I think we'd all like to know. And I think that very kind of thing is what muddies the waters. And it easy for people to say, I don't believe you, I don't need to believe you. I don't care if you're a doctor, there's some other conspiracy to undermine your value.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And I wonder, I want to hear from both of you on this, like, what are the long term consequences of this?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Well, I think that there's a concern that the disinvestment in scientific research is going to have a really long tail. The NIH is the biggest public funder of scientific research in the world and there's been a lot of cancellation of grants. You know, a lot of labs that were set up with multi year grants that went through this complicated vetting process, just had their funding pulled, people fired, you know, that research just isn't going to happen. And so it's hard to know. I mean, it's hard to say like this technology would have existed or this, you know, pandemic could have been prevented. The way scientific research works is it's like you have to just have faith in the process and have faith that what looks like something kind of small could turn into something really valuable for society. It's hard to kind of look into a crystal ball and see exactly how this is going to play out. But, you know, we saw during the COVID 19 pandemic that public trust can make or break a response. And so I do think that this further erosion of public trust, even when there isn't a crisis like COVID 19 on the horizon that we know of, is really concerning, you know, and those.

[Kara]

Are, you know, real life consequences from a policy standpoint, politically, leadership really matters, you know, and if this continues, we're gonna continue to see everything viewed through a partisan lens of what your chosen leader says and tells you to do. So unless you have leaders that are able to say, hey, guys, we actually all agree on these stats and these numbers, you should, too, you're gonna continue to see this erosion of trust in the government, that trust in the media and people believing what they want to believe.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. All right. We're going to take a quick break, and when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Federal funding for public media has been eliminated, which means decades of support for public radio and television from both political parties is ending. To be clear, NPR isn't going anywhere. But we do need your support. We hope you'll give today to keep rigorous, independent, and irreplaceable news coverage available to everyone free of charge. Make your [e-mail] and thank you. This summer on Planet Money Summer School, we're learning about political economy. We're getting into the nitty gritty of what government does with things like trade, taxes, immigration, and healthcare.

[Kara]

So politics and economics, which are taught separately, they shouldn't be separated at all.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

I think you have to understand one.

[Kara]

To really appreciate the other.

[Domenico Montanaro]

So what is the right amount of government in our lives? Tune into politics, Planet Money Summer School from npr. Wherever you get your podcasts, if you're.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

A robot, this might not be the show for you. But if you're a human with hopes, dreams, and bills to pay, the Life Kit podcast might be just what you need. Three times a week, Life Kit brings you a fresh set of solutions to help you tackle topics big and small, from how to save money on groceries to how to bring the house down at karaoke.

[Ollie]

You know, human stuff.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Listen to the Life Kit Podcast from npr presentaro por mi Marielle Segarra.

[Ashley Lopez]

And we're back. And it's time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And Selena, I want to start with you because this is your first time doing Can't Let It Go. I'm very excited to hear what you.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

It's my debut.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Let's hear what you've been pondering. So what can't you let go of this week?

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Okay, so something that I would like to share with America is that I am a big fan of pro cycling. And we are a Tour de France family. Actually. We watch all the Tour, all the big tours, but the summer is all about the Tour de France. The men's Tour de France. This year was real boring because the same guy always wins the snooze. It's like three weeks of a snooze. Yeah, it's. Well, it's Tade Pagaccia, who is a Slovenian cyclist, but he's so much better than everybody else. It's the snooze. But the women's Tour de France guys was so good. It. It's only nine stages long. They don't give you the full three weeks of racing. But it was so good. Like, Mariana Voss, who's the best of all time, had the yellow jersey at the beginning and Kim Lacourt got the yellow jersey. She is this really amazing rider from Mauritius. And then towards the end, this 23 year old French writer named Mavis Squibbon raced up the mountain and won a stage of the Tour de France out of the blue. Everyone was like, who is this person? Next day, another huge mountain. She does it again. What? It was insane. It was so fun to watch. Anyway, women's cycling. I'm such a big fan. Everyone else should watch too. It's so great.

[Kara]

I don't know how they go uphill.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah.

[Kara]

That's the thing I just don't get. I know they have like, really cool bikes that you can like, hold on your, like, finger. But, like, I don't how they make it. I'd have to get off and walk my bike.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And also just the cardiovascular strength that that takes. Like, to do that for an extended period of time is kind of nuts.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

It's insane. But my spouse is a serious cyclist and watching this, she's like, oh, yeah, that looks fun. Okay.

[Kara]

No, you get the inside scoop.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

All right. Well, Domenico. What? Can't you let go of this Week.

[Kara]

Well, it's less what I can't let go of. And apparently what the government can't let go of, which is McGruff the crime dog. Remember him?

[Ashley Lopez]

Oh, yeah, in the little trench coat.

[Kara]

Yeah, the trench coat. In the 1980s, he used to have these ads about how he was gonna be tough on crime and, you know, don't. He's gonna take a bite out of crime is what McGruff used to say. He's back to try to stop other kind of crime, which is fentanyl crossing the border. He's in these new ads like this one.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Did you know that fake prescription pills may contain fentanyl? And an amount small enough to fit on the tip of a pencil can be lethal?

[Kara]

Number one, I think my daughter would listen to this ad and just go, ugh, cringe. Like the way she talks about me whenever I try to use Gen Z lingo.

[Ashley Lopez]

I was gonna say, it has been 40 years and still anti drug ads are so cringe worthy. Like, they haven't gotten any better.

[Kara]

I also have questions about the voice.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Is it AI? It's not the same voice as McGruff in the 80s. And I want this backstory on that.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kara]

All right, Ashley, what can't you let go of?

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, what I can't let go of this week is this story I saw on the AP about a zoo in Denmark that is asking for donations of small pets as food for predators at the zoo. This is. Yeah, so they're trying to, like, like they say, mimic the natural food chain of the houses of, like, the animals that are there. This is for the sake of both animal welfare and the professional integrity that the zoo offers. But anyways, this is like a way to, they say, gently euthanize your small pets, like your guinea pigs and rabbits and stuff. And they're like, make sure they're healthy. So, like, who is giving, like, their healthy pet guinea pig over to be eaten by a snake or something?

[Kara]

Frustrated. Frustrated with your Pomeranian pooping around the house. Give it over to this hawk.

[Ashley Lopez]

You're very small chihuahua. While it's barking too much. It's just like, I don't know. I found this horrifying. I'm sure there's like an ecological reason why this is like a better way to get rid of a small pet, but I was horrified. You know, a pet owner.

[Kara]

All right, that's cold.

[Ashley Lopez]

It is. All right, that's a wrap for today. Thank you for joining us, Lena.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Thanks for having me. It was really fun.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Our editor is Rachel Bay. Our producers are Casey Morel and Bria Suggs. Thanks to Podmon and Diane Weber. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Kara]

I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Ashley Lopez]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

Congress has approved a White House request to eliminate federal funding for public media. NPR remains committed to our mission of informing the public, increasing your understanding of the world and enriching everyday life. But without federal funding, we are relying on your support now more than ever. Please give [e-mail] this week on Consider.

[Domenico Montanaro]

This, the fight over gerrymandering spreading from Texas to other states. Now some Democrats want to fight fire with fire, and a lot of us are searching the Web differently, letting AI do it for us. Why? The Internet could change if you search, but never click. This week on Consider this, Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

I'm Rachel Martin, host of Wildcard from npr.

[Ashley Lopez]

I've spent years interviewing all kinds of.

[Selena Simmons-Duffin]

People, and I've realized there are ideas that we all think about but don't talk about very much. So I made a shortcut, a deck of cards with questions that anyone can answer, questions that go deep into the experiences that shape us. Listen to the Wild Card podcast only from NPR.