Trump Falsely Claims Mail Ballots Are "Corrupt," Calls For Their Prohibition

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast

Episode: Trump Falsely Claims Mail Ballots Are "Corrupt," Calls For Their Prohibition
Date: August 20, 2025
Hosts: Tamara Keith, Ashley Lopez, Myles Parks

---

Overview

This episode dissects President Trump’s recent public claims that mail-in voting is “corrupt” and his vow to eliminate it through executive action. NPR’s political reporters examine the legitimacy of Trump’s claims, the constitutional and legislative realities around voting in the U.S., and the wider political implications for the GOP and upcoming elections. The conversation also covers reactions to Trump citing Vladimir Putin as a validator of U.S. election concerns, and explores the practical impact of anti-mail-ballot rhetoric on Republican election strategy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Claim: Mail Ballots are “Corrupt”

• [01:17] Tamara Keith introduces Trump’s statement from the Oval Office, where he alleges that "Mail in ballots are corrupt. Mail in ballots. You can never have a real democracy with mail in ballots. And we as a Republican Party are going to do everything possible that we get rid of mail in ballots." (Donald Trump at 01:25)
• The hosts commit to “unpack” both the veracity of the ‘corrupt’ claim and how American elections are actually governed.

---

2. Can the President Ban Mail-In Voting?

• [01:56] Ashley Lopez unequivocally states:

  "No. The executive branch has absolutely no power in dictating how states run their elections. We have a decentralized system in this country... This one’s one of those cut and dry things where it’s like, absolutely not. The president does not have a say in how states run their elections." (Ashley Lopez, 01:56–02:25)

• Although Trump suggests an executive order, the only routes to change voting method legality would be through Congress or state legislatures.

---

3. Reality Check: Mail Ballot “Corruption”

• [03:38] Myles Parks addresses Trump’s claim directly:

  "There’s no evidence that that is the case. I will say when we talk about fraud in elections, the place where it does marginally happen more is in vote by mail traditionally, but it is still a very, very small amount. And there’s never been evidence to show that vote by mail systems have been fraudulently tainted to the point that Trump talks about... So that is not factually accurate." (Myles Parks, 03:38–04:14)

• Additional facts:
  • Vote by mail has existed in the U.S. for over 150 years, dating to the Civil War.
  • Dozens of countries globally permit postal voting.
  • States have implemented robust mail-ballot tracking and security.

---

4. Election Technology & Security

• Trump, in addition to mail ballots, has called for a ban on "voting machines," but it's unclear whether he refers to electronic voting without paper trails, ballot tabulators, or both.
• Myles Parks clarifies:

  "[Only] a very small percentage of the country doesn’t use paper ballots... and the tabulators... have been found to be much more accurate than hand counting ballots." (Myles Parks, 04:45–05:09)

• Ashley Lopez adds that nearly all jurisdictions now use machines with paper audit trails, and the last election (conducted largely with both mail-in ballots and machines) was certified by even the Trump administration as safe and secure.

---

5. The Political Strategy Behind Attacking Mail-In Balloting

• [05:37] Ashley Lopez explains:

  "This has been an effective way for Trump to... raise the specter of concern over vote by mail and give people a reason to not trust the results of an election ahead of people voting... By the way, he has used [mail ballots] himself." (Ashley Lopez, 05:37–06:02)

• Several GOP-controlled states (like Utah) have run mail-only elections for years, often benefitting Republicans—a point Myles Parks notes (06:09).

---

6. International Influence: Trump Quotes Putin

• [08:16] Trump, fresh from a summit with Vladimir Putin, relays Putin’s supposed statement:

  "Vladimir Putin said something, one of the most interesting things. He said your election was rigged because you have mail in voting. He said, mail in voting every election. He said, no country has mail in voting. It’s impossible to have mail in voting and have honest elections." (Donald Trump, 08:16)

• The hosts point out the irony and alarm in turning to the Russian leader as an authority on free and fair elections (Myles Parks, 08:33; Tamara Keith, 09:04).

---

7. Redistricting, 2026 Midterms, and 'Bank Your Vote'

• Ashley Lopez highlights that current fights over election law are closely tied to GOP efforts to shape the electorate via redistricting.
• Trump’s campaign against mail voting runs counter to the GOP’s own recent initiatives to encourage early and mail voting, especially to court older Republican voters (Myles Parks, 10:28).
• Parks notes that suppressing vote-by-mail could drive down turnout among low-propensity (occasional) Trump supporters, inadvertently benefiting Democrats.

---

8. Why Federalizing Elections is a Double-Edged Sword

• Ashley Lopez, referencing conservative legal experts:

  "Just imagine if you federalize elections, and the next time Democrats are in power, they're gonna have things like universal mail in ballots... I actually don’t think that most Republicans would actually like that." (Ashley Lopez, 11:09)

---

9. The Broader Impact: Delegitimizing Elections

• Myles Parks’ closing remarks on Trump’s aim:

  "Even if courts basically say everything you’re requiring is unconstitutional, that is a basis for Trump or anyone else to basically say, no, we tried to make the election secure, and those judges or the Democratic legislatures or whoever wouldn’t let us. And so you cannot trust these election results." (Myles Parks, 11:55)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Donald Trump:
  "Mail in ballots are corrupt. You can never have a real democracy with mail in ballots." (01:25)
  "Vladimir Putin said... your election was rigged because you have mail in voting... no country has mail in voting." (08:16)

• Ashley Lopez:
  "The executive branch has absolutely no power in dictating how states run their elections... absolutely not." (01:56)
  "Trump should be careful what he wishes for. Just imagine if you federalize elections... there will be policies Republicans won’t like." (11:09)

• Myles Parks:
  "There's no evidence that that is the case... when we talk about fraud in elections... it is still a very, very small amount." (03:38)
  "His rhetoric is at odds with political strategy when it comes to Republicans right now." (10:28)
  "Even if courts... say everything you’re requiring is unconstitutional, that is a basis... to delegitimize elections." (11:55)

---

Structure & Timestamps

• [01:17] — Trump’s Oval Office statement: attacks on mail voting
• [01:56–02:25] — Can Trump or any president ban mail-in ballots?
• [03:38–05:09] — Evidence on mail-ballot security; evolution since 2020
• [05:31–06:02] — Why Trump fixates on mail ballots
• [06:02–06:30] — States with mail voting, GOP wins (Utah as case study)
• [08:16–09:04] — Trump quoting Putin, hosts’ analysis
• [09:30–10:05] — Redistricting context, Republican election strategy
• [10:28] — Contradictions between GOP strategy and Trump rhetoric
• [11:09–11:41] — Risks of federalizing elections for Republicans
• [11:55] — Final thoughts: delegitimizing elections through rhetoric

---

Conclusion

This episode critically examines and dismantles Trump’s repeated attacks on mail-in voting, highlighting both the lack of evidence for widespread corruption and the legal impossibility of a unilateral ban by the executive. The panel underscores the political calculus driving these claims, the historical success of mail voting (even for Republicans), and the potential dangers to election legitimacy driven by unfounded political rhetoric. The inclusion of Putin as a validator is roundly critiqued—a “striking” and “ironic” moment, given Russia’s history with election interference and American political discourse.

The episode concludes with a reminder from all legal experts consulted: Should Trump attempt to act, such an executive order would almost certainly be struck down in court—but the damage to faith in American elections could be lasting.

---

Transcript

[Narrator]

Stars. They're just like us. John Legend goes to cbs. Well, that's because he has his own skincare line.

[Myles Parks]

It was so exciting to actually go into one of those stores. We had the end caps.

[Narrator]

Were you like, I don't want this locked up. John Legend is one of many stars riding the celebrity branding wave. He tells us about it on the indicator from Planet Money. Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie]

Hi, this is Jamie calling from Hurricane island, Maine, a 19th century quarrying town that supplied grammar for the Brooklyn Bridge and Washington Monument.

[Tamara Keith]

This podcast was recorded at 12:22pm on Wednesday, August 20.

[Jamie]

Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I will be enjoying the rocky shores of Maine and watching students study marine ecology at our off grid off coast science school. Enjoy the show.

[Tamara Keith]

You could get a job in public radio with those sounds. The recording was so good.

[Ashley Lopez]

Such good natural sound.

[Myles Parks]

I can't get over Hurricane island, though. I feel like it's kind of odd to name place after a natural disaster.

[Tamara Keith]

No, especially a place in Maine where there aren't that many hurricanes typically. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Ashley Lopez]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Myles Parks]

And I'm Myles Parks. I cover voting.

[Tamara Keith]

And today on the show, President Trump wants to change the way people vote. Here he is speaking in the Oval Office on Monday.

[Donald Trump]

Mail in ballots are corrupt. Mail in ballots. You can never have a real democracy with mail in ballots. And we as a Republican Party are going to do everything possible that we get rid of mail in ballots.

[Tamara Keith]

So today on the pod, we are going to unpack this, the claim that mail in ballots are corrupt and also talk about how the country votes. But first, Ashley, let us start with the basics. Can President Trump or any president unilaterally get rid of voting by mail?

[Ashley Lopez]

No. The executive branch has absolutely no power in dictating how states run their elections. We have a decentralized system in this country which, by the way, has been embraced by conservatives up until until now. I talked to a lot of legal scholars about this and this was one of those things where, like, there was no equivocation. Everybody was like, this is illegal if he were to do this. So, you know, the founders designed the system this way. I mean, this one's one of those cut and dry things where it's like, absolutely not. The president does not have a say in how states run their elections.

[Tamara Keith]

But the president is saying that he's going to sign an executive order. We don't know exactly what that order will say or do. When asked about this fact of how elections work, the White House says, well, we'll also be working with Republicans in Congress and out in the states.

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, I mean, he mentioned Congress, like Congress could change this system that we have. Right. That is the only structure that could do this. That is the only branch of government that is allowed to change the way we run our elections and sort of centralize it as opposed to having a decentralized system, but.

[Myles Parks]

Or the state legislature. Right. Because like, we did see that after 2020, where when Trump was really mad about how that election went, we saw many Republican states then pass laws that seemed completely based on his complaints to either add new restrictions, new security measures on vote by mail, and do other sort of election changes as a result of that. So we definitely could see that before the midterms, other states changing election policies.

[Tamara Keith]

And the interesting thing here is you say a lot of it has already happened in the states where they wanted to do it back in 2020 and the years immediately after that. So let's look at the claim that the president that mail in ballots are corrupt.

[Myles Parks]

There's no evidence that that is the case. I will say when we talk about fraud in elections, the place where it does marginally happen more is in vote by mail traditionally, but it is still a very, very small amount. And there's never been evidence to show that vote by mail systems have been fraudulently tainted to the point that Trump talks about. I mean, I'm talking about like there have been local elections that have been impacted by stuffing a few mail ballots here and there and things like that. So that is not factually accurate. And I will also say states have been continuing developing new security systems that are also pretty interesting. Like nowadays in many states, you can go online and you can track where your mail ballot is, when it's been sent, when it arrives to you, when it gets back to the election official, when it's been counted, things like that. There's a few other things that he said that I think we should just quickly go through. One of the things was that he indicated that the US Was the only country that still uses vote by mail, which is not true. There are dozens of countries that offer postal mail. And also it's been in use in the US worth noting for over 150 years, since the Civil War. And the last thing he said he wants to get rid of voting machines. That was the other aspect of this to come. Still waiting on this executive order. That's going to somehow eliminate voting machines. It's very unclear what he's talking about there, whether he's talking about people who vote on machines and don't use paper ballots, which is like roughly 1% of the country, like a very small percentage of the country doesn't use paper ballots, or whether he's talking about the tabulators that are used to count the ballots, which also I should note have been found to be much more accurate than hand counting ballots. Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

And I think something thing like in the last election, almost 100% of jurisdictions had voting machines that had a paper trail that you could easily audit. And I mean, it's worth noting that we just had an election where voting machines and mail in ballots were used widely. And even the Trump administration itself has said that that was a great and safe election. So, you know, there is a bit of a disconnect there about like where this is coming from.

[Tamara Keith]

So, Ashley, why then is the president against voting by mail?

[Ashley Lopez]

Well, I mean, this has been an effective way for Trump to, you know, raise the specter of concern over vote by mail and give people a reason to not trust the results of an election ahead of people voting. And so, you know, this was effective ahead of the 2020-20-24 election and the 2024 election. So I'm not super surprised that Trump is yet again, you know, raising concerns over a way of voting that, by the way, he has used himself.

[Tamara Keith]

There are some states that are almost exclusively vote by mail. It's that for a while it seemed like that's the direction voting was going.

[Myles Parks]

It was. And I should also note that Republicans have won in many of these states. I mean, the state that a lot of election officials go back to is Utah, which is almost exclusively controlled by Republicans. And that has been a vote by mail state for years. Though I should note that they are changing that system and it's to be phased out in the future now. But Republicans have won there under all vote by mail systems.

[Announcer]

All right.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, we are going to take a quick break and we'll have more on the politics of all this when we get back.

[Announcer]

Support for NPR and the following message come from Copilot Money. Your fitness tracker helps you stay active. Your weather app keeps you dry. But who is helping you stay on top of your money? That's where Copilot Money comes in. It's a sleek, easy to use app that gives you a crystal clear view of all your accounts, spending and budgets, plus customizable categories and savings goals. The clean design finally makes tracking your finances feel stress free. Start today at Copilot Money and get two months free by entering code POLITICS2. When starting your free trial, there's a.

[Podcast Host]

Lot of news happening. You want to understand it better, but let's be honest, you don't want it to be your entire life either. Well, that's sort of like our show Here and Now Anytime. Every weekday on our podcast, we talk to people all over the country about everything from political analysis to climate resilience, video games. We even talk about dumpster diving on this show. Check out Here and Now Anytime, a daily podcast from NPR and wbur.

[Sponsor Voice]

This message comes from Ritual. Upgrade your supplement routine with Ritual's commitment to trust and traceability during their subscription sale site wide. Get 40% off your first month of [e-mail] podcast.

[Tamara Keith]

And we're back. And just briefly, I want to get to sort of the roots of this. Ashley, as you talked about, President Trump for years has had issues with mail in voting. But the most recent outbreak of this started on Friday in an interview he did on Fox News with Sean Hannity immediately after his summit with Russia's President Vladimir Putin.

[Donald Trump]

Vladimir Putin said something, one of the most interesting things. He said your election was rigged because you have mail in voting. He said, mail in voting every election. He said, no country has mail in voting. It's impossible to have mail in voting and have honest elections.

[Myles Parks]

I mean, that is just absolutely striking, isn't it? I mean, for years, how many years have we been hearing the establishment across the aisle? I mean, I can just remember hearing Republican leaders for the last decade talk about how Russia's elections were not trusted and that Vladimir Putin is like the last person that you would be taking advice on how to run free and fair elections from. And so, I don't know, it is a striking piece of audio to hear.

[Tamara Keith]

It's an interesting validator to choose when talking about election security in the United States, given all of the concerns about Russia and Russia's meddling in the 2016 election. Though, to be clear, votes were not changed. It was mostly a social media effort. And this comes as states are already preparing for the midterm elections in 2026.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, I mean, this is all happening at the same time that there is this big fight between state legislatures and governors about redistricting. And this is not something that was lost on Trump. I mean, he said the quiet part out loud recently and he said, yeah, this is about Republic setting themselves up for the next election. He said many times Republicans have to be smart.

[Donald Trump]

That's bigger than anything having to do with redistricting, believe me. And the Republicans have to get smart. We're not going to have a country. I said for a long time at rallies, you need borders and you need free and fair elections. Those two things.

[Tamara Keith]

The thing that is fascinating to me about this push from President Trump is that it in some ways comes in conflict with what Republican campaigns have been trying to do. I remember in the last election cycle, there was this whole bank your vote effort that in fact, they got Trump to endorse. And he made a video, though maybe begrudgingly.

[Myles Parks]

I think that 100%, that this is like his rhetoric is at odds with political strategy when it comes to Republicans right now. I think, you know, even before 2020, vote by mail was favored generally by older Republican voters. And so previously, it didn't really make sense to be anti vote by mail. But now, when you take into account the 2024 electorate, how did Trump win that election? He won it by turning out low propensity voters and all research, election research shows that things that make voting easier, vote by mail, voting early helps low propensity voters. So if Trump makes it harder for those low propensity voters to turn out, guess who is going to be favored by that? Democrats in this election environment.

[Tamara Keith]

Yeah.

[Ashley Lopez]

And there's also a larger philosophical thing here that is against the way conservatives have been viewing the way elections are run here. I spoke to someone at a conservative think tank here in D.C. and he said, I mean, Trump should be careful what he wishes for. Just imagine if you federalize elections, and the next time Democrats are in power, they're gonna have things like universal mail in ballots. There will be policies that Republicans won't like in there. So if the goal here is to have the president and the executive branch play a big role in how elections are run, I actually don't think that most Republicans would actually like that.

[Tamara Keith]

Well, and anytime that the president or executive branch has the most preeminent role, then you have this whiplash that we're having in the US where you go from one party to the next, and then all of a sudden everything changes.

[Myles Parks]

I do think it's important, though, to see the bigger picture here, because every legal expert that Ashley talked to in the last couple days says there is no way that any executive order like the one he's talking about will hold up in court. It can still serve President Trump's aims, right? I mean, if his entire goal is to delegitimize elections in 2026 or 2028, I think that's what a lot of election experts are freaked out about, is this idea that even if courts basically say everything you're requiring is unconstitutional, that is a basis for Trump or anyone else to basically say, no, we tried to make the election secure, and those judges or the Democratic legislatures or whoever wouldn't let us. And so you cannot trust these election results. You can do that whether or not your executive order is found to be legal or not.

[Tamara Keith]

All right. We're going to leave it there for now. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

[Ashley Lopez]

I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Myles Parks]

And I'm Miles Parks.

[Jamie]

I cover voting.

[Tamara Keith]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

[Sponsor Voice]

This message comes from Ritual. Upgrade your supplement routine with Ritual's commitment to trust and traceability. During their subscription sale site wide, get 40% off your first month of [e-mail] podcast.

[Announcer]

On the next through line from NPR.

[Sponsor Voice]

The man who saw a dangerous omission in the U.S. constitution and took it upon himself to fix it.

[Donald Trump]

If something happens to a president who is still alive, the consequences for the country would have been enormous.

[Sponsor Voice]

The 25th Amendment. Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Pop Culture Host]

Pop culture Happy Hour NPR's Easy Breezy, laid back pop culture podcast has brought you the best in culture for the past 15 years.

[Announcer]

That means we spent the last 15 years talking about what exactly?

[Pop Culture Host]

Bad reality TV? Actually good. Marvel Movies?

[Myles Parks]

Actually awful Marvel movies Reboots pop music.

[Announcer]

Prestige dramas, Netflix slob.

[Pop Culture Host]

That's 15 years of buzzy pop culture chit chat. And here's to many more. With you along for the ride, listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.