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- [00:00]
Frank Ordonez
This message comes from Carvana. With Carvana Value Tracker, you can track your car's value anytime, anywhere. Carvana will even let you know when your car's value changes with updated emails. However you value your car, know its worth with Carvana Value Tracker.
- [00:17]
Mara Liasson
Hey, this is Nikki from Fort Riley, Kansas. I'm on my way to pick up my DD214 reflecting my honorable discharge from the United States Army.
- [00:25]
Sarah McCammon
This podcast was recorded at 1:37pm Eastern Time on Monday, December 16, 2024.
- [00:31]
Mara Liasson
Things may have changed by time you hear this, but I'll already have embarked on my new civilian chapter. Okay, here's the show.
- [00:40]
Frank Ordonez
Good luck, Nikki.
- [00:41]
Mara Liasson
Oh, congratulations.
- [00:43]
Sarah McCammon
Fort Riley, Kansas, not too far from where I grew up. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.
- [00:50]
Frank Ordonez
I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.
- [00:52]
Mara Liasson
And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.
- [00:56]
Sarah McCammon
Earlier today, President elect Donald Trump held a press conference at his Mar A Lago residence in South Florida, his first such event since winning the 2024 presidential race. We're going to talk about some of the big takeaways today. Franco, let's start with immigration. What did Trump say about what he has planned there? Did we get any further insight?
- [01:16]
Frank Ordonez
Yeah, I mean, he basically doubled down on threats to launch a trade war against Mexico and Canada, essentially over his claims of the number of migrants that are arriving from the south and northern borders. I mean, he said it before, and he said again that he'd impose these here huge tariffs on these two neighbors if they don't get a better handle on the migrants who are crossing their borders. You know, he continues to contend as well that the United States is subsidizing both countries to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. And just one other thing on immigration, he also actually threatened legal actions against the Biden administration for, you know, claiming they're selling off portions of the border wall.
- [01:58]
Sarah McCammon
So really, we see here the intersection of two of Trump's signature issues, right. Immigration and tariffs. Mara, it seems like Trump's preferred foreign policy solution to almost everything is tariffs.
- [02:09]
Mara Liasson
Well, it's more than foreign policy. Trump seems to say that tariffs is the solution to every problem that the United States has, both foreign policy and domestic. He has said that tariffs is the most beautiful word in the English language. He said we're going to pay off the debt with tariffs and tax cuts. That's economically very hard to understand how that works. But at the very least, what Trump is trying to do is maintain the threat of tariffs. In his first term, he threatened tariffs, but he never actually went through with most of the ones he threatened because he said that Mexico and Canada agreed to renegotiate nafta, and we'll see if that's what he wants to do this time. Or does he actually want to start a trade war with big tariffs?
- [02:52]
Sarah McCammon
You know, we talk a lot about tariffs as an economic policy measure, and we talk a lot about the risks of inflation from tariffs and so forth. But what about as a foreign policy tool? I mean, if the objective here is to get a handle on undocumented immigration, how effective is it likely to be?
- [03:09]
Frank Ordonez
I mean, for Trump, what he sees using tariffs is a negotiating tactic to get other things that he wants. Every time I actually talk to an ambassador or a diplomat, they're always kind of disappointed or frustrated that Trump kind of juggles different things. He uses tariffs, economic issues to address national security issues. They want to keep everything in its certain lane. For Trump, though, he says this is a way to get things in the US Interest. I mean, he claims that he has stopped wars using tariffs. He often refers to the Remain in Mexico program that required immigrants or migrants coming from other countries to stay in Mexico while their cases proceeded through the courts. He said that only happened because he threatened tariffs against Mexico.
- [04:01]
Mara Liasson
Well, see, this is the great contradiction of Trump. If you believe that tariffs, as he often says, is an economic solution to everything that ails the United States, including the DEB deficit, then you have to go through with them and put the highest tariffs possible on all imported goods. But if you think it's merely a threat to get other countries to do certain things, like stop fentanyl from coming across the border, stop illegal immigrants from coming across the border, then it's just a negotiating tool, and we don't know which one it is.
- [04:29]
Sarah McCammon
Okay. Another thing Trump said today, he again defended Pete Hegseth, his embattled pick to run the Department of Defense. Franco, remind us again, why is Hegseth's nomination getting so much attention?
- [04:41]
Frank Ordonez
Yeah, Hegseth is the former army major as well as a Fox News host, and he has just been facing an avalanche of negative headlines over allegations of sexual assault, abuse of alcohol. I mean, so much so that his nomination really seemed to be kind of teetering on the edge. Just a few weeks ago, they were talking about who could replace them. Names like Florida Governor Ron DeSantis potentially. But in the recent weeks, Trump and his grassroots allies have really rallied around Hegseth and bolstered him in the running I mean, Hegseth was Trump's guest at the Army Navy football game this weekend. Many of the pictures of Trump included Hegseth. So he is looking to be in a much stronger position.
- [05:33]
Sarah McCammon
Yeah. I mean, he went to bat just over a week ago on NBC's Meet the Press for Hegseth. And to be clear, Hegseth has denied these allegations. Does it look like this is going to does this get Trump his nominee despite all the controversy?
- [05:45]
Mara Liasson
It looks like it very well might. What's so interesting about Trump's approach to these nominees is he started out by saying, take it or leave it. United States Senate. If you don't have the votes to confirm these guys, I'm going to push them through as recess appointments. And that would have caused a kind of constitutional crisis where he was at war with his own Republican controlled Senate. But now he's doing something different. He's saying, I have a movement that's extremely powerful. If I use this movement to threaten sitting Republican senators with primary opponents, if they don't vote for my nominees, I can get them through that way. So he's flexing his muscles and so far it seems like it's working.
- [06:20]
Frank Ordonez
It might get him his nominee, but it might just get his nominee to a confirmation hearing. I mean, even Republican senators have warned that if this confirmation hearing happens, it could be very ugly. Talking about the sexual assault allegations, you know, there's going to be testimony. It could be a difficult confirmation process. So, yes, I think it's likely, you know, if this momentum continues, that he gets to the hearings. But I do feel like it could be another ballgame once those start.
- [06:54]
Sarah McCammon
Okay, it's time for a quick break. We'll have more in just a moment.
- [06:58]
Frank Ordonez
This is Eric Glass on this American Life. We like stories that surprise you. For instance, imagine finding a new hobby, realizing to do this hobby right according to the ways of the masters. There's a pretty good chance that you're.
- [07:11]
Mara Liasson
Going to have to bend the law.
- [07:13]
Frank Ordonez
To get the materials that you need.
- [07:15]
Mara Liasson
If not break it. Yeah.
- [07:17]
Frank Ordonez
To break international laws. Real life stories, really good ones. This American Life.
- [07:22]
Mara Liasson
Ho, ho, ho. Santa here coming to you from the North Pole, where the elves in our podcast division have just completed work on this season's best gift for public radio lovers. NPR give the gift of sponsored free listening and even bonus episodes from your favorite NPR podcasts, all while supporting public media. Learn more at plus.NPR.org Every weekday, Up first gives you the news you need to start your day on the Sunday Story from Up first, we Slow down. We bring you the best reporting from NPR journalists around the world, all in one major story, 30 minutes or less. Join me every Sunday on the up first podcast to sit down with the biggest stories from npr.
- [08:11]
Sarah McCammon
And we're back. So we've talked a lot about Trump's trade policy, foreign policy, at least one of his Cabinet nominees. Is there anything else Trump had to say today that particularly jumped out at either of you?
- [08:24]
Mara Liasson
Well, the vaccines really jumped out at me. He was asked about vaccines and autism, and he seemed to suggests that he either was very open minded or actually agreed with Robert F. Kennedy, who has said that there is a connection between vaccines and autism. You know, if you look at autism. So 30 years ago we had, I've heard numbers of like 1 in 200,000, 1 in 100,000, and now I'm hearing numbers of 1 in 100. So something's wrong. There's something wrong and we're going to find out about it.
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Sarah McCammon
And we should just say that the scientific consensus among most experts is that vaccines do not cause autism.
- [09:05]
Frank Ordonez
Yeah, I would just echo that on the vaccines. I think that it's really going to be talked about a lot for, you know, the next few weeks. I would just add that he was also said that he was open to pardoning New York City Mayor Eric Adams, a Democrat who was indicted this fall on corruption charges.
- [09:21]
Sarah McCammon
Just to talk about the optics here for a second, I mean, it's almost as if there are two competing White Houses during this transition period. Of course, there's the one in Washington, D.C. where Joe Biden is still the president, but increasingly there's the one in Florida. You know, Trump is stepping into leadership roles, talking with foreign leaders. He just traveled to France for the rededication of the Notre Dame Cathedral. How much can we glean from what Trump is saying and doing right now about how he will govern starting in just over a month?
- [09:52]
Mara Liasson
Well, we can glean a lot of what he wants to do. He's telling us almost every day, whether it's in a press conference or in a social media post. But what I think this is really about about is the kind of unusual system that we have here in the United States where we have this incredibly long interregnum between the two administrations. In England, somebody moves into 10 Downing Street, I think the next day. So because we have this incredibly long archaic period, you know, it used to take a long time to come to Washington in a horse and buggy. We have this weird situation. And we've had it in most transitions, especially from one party's president to another party's president, where you have, in effect, almost two presidents at a time.
- [10:33]
Frank Ordonez
I do think it is pretty notable that Trump had this press conference, almost an hour and 15 minutes, talking to the press, so much attention on it, while Biden has yet to have an outgoing press conference. And so far, we haven't given in any indication that he will.
- [10:50]
Sarah McCammon
Not to mention that Trump just loves this stuff. He never accepted the 2020 election results. He's wanted to be president all this time, and he seems to be jumping at the chance to step back into the limelight in this way. You know, I want to close by asking you both about something else Trump said that caught my ear today.
- [11:07]
Mara Liasson
In the first term, everybody was fighting me. In this term, everybody wants to be my friend. I don't know, my personality changed or something.
- [11:14]
Sarah McCammon
There does seem to be a greater sense of conciliation and cooperation from business leaders, certainly Silicon Valley, from other politicians, from world leaders, than there was after Trump won in 2016. What do you make of that?
- [11:30]
Mara Liasson
First of all, one of the things I make of this is among business leaders, there's a great enthusiasm, as there would be for any Republican incoming president who promises to cut taxes and regulation. But there's also a whole different approach to Donald Trump. There's not going to be the same kind of resistance. I think world leaders, business leaders, feel that he can be lobbied. Look how he's changed his positions on TikTok crypto. Donald Trump is starting his own crypto company. All of a sudden he's very favorable to crypto. He used to be very negative. So I think there's just a different approach. He is seen as a more legitimate figure because he won the popular vote. But also, I think world leaders and business leaders and other politicians think that there's a different way of dealing with him than just blanket resistance. They're going to try to work with him. It doesn't mean that they have grown any fonder of his policies or his approach, but they're just going to see if they can deal with him in a different way.
- [12:24]
Sarah McCammon
All right, we will leave it there. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.
- [12:28]
Frank Ordonez
I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.
- [12:30]
Mara Liasson
And I'm Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.
- [12:34]
Sarah McCammon
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.
- [12:45]
Mara Liasson
I'm Lakshmi Singh. Public radio reminds us of our shared humanity, even at our darkest hours, like with a story of an artist couple who make beautiful spaces for communities to grieve.
- [12:56]
Sarah McCammon
We found that people will usually stop.
- [12:58]
Mara Liasson
By and just feel a little bit more open and willing to talk and share. Help us make room for light in the dark. Give before the end of the year@donate.NPR.org.
- [13:09]
Frank Ordonez
How much can one person change in four years? The answer comes down to who he puts in charge. Trump's Terms is a podcast where you can follow NPR's coverage of the people who will shape Donald Trump's first hundred days in office and what their goals are. We will track his cabinet picks, his political team, his top military leaders, to understand who they are, what they believe, and how they'll govern. Listen to Trump's Terms from npr.
- [13:33]
Mara Liasson
Listen to this podcast sponsor, free on Amazon Music with a Prime membership or any podcast app by subscribing to NPR Politics+@plus.NPR.org that's plus.NPR.org.