Trump: Man Wrongfully Deported To El Salvador Won't Return To U.S.

Summary

Episode Summary: "Trump: Man Wrongfully Deported To El Salvador Won't Return To U.S."

Release Date: April 15, 2025
Podcast: The NPR Politics Podcast
Hosts: Ashley Lopez, Ximena Bustillo, Frank Ordonez

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Introduction: Setting the Stage

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Ashley Lopez, Ximena Bustillo, and Frank Ordonez delve into the intricate and evolving relationship between the United States and El Salvador, particularly focusing on the controversial deportation practices initiated during the Trump administration. The discussion zeroes in on the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran citizen wrongfully deported to El Salvador, and the broader implications of U.S. immigration policies.

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U.S.-El Salvador Deportation Agreement: Origins and Motivations

Frank Ordonez provides a historical backdrop to the U.S.-El Salvador deportation agreement, highlighting former President Donald Trump's emphasis on immigration as his "signature issue." Trump sought international allies to bolster border security and address the influx of migrants, particularly targeting gang members affiliated with organizations like MS-13.

"Trump's signature issue is obviously immigration... He spent a lot of time talking about the Venezuelan gang trend, MS-13, and promised to... change rules so that they could be more easily deported."
— Frank Ordonez [01:12]

To facilitate this, Trump leveraged the Alien Enemies Act, an obscure law permitting the deportation of individuals deemed a threat. El Salvador, under President Nayib Bukele, emerged as a key partner willing to house deported individuals in facilities like the mega prison Secot.

"Bukele has built a reputation in El Salvador... agreeing to house alleged gang members from the US who were deported using this old law."
— Frank Ordonez [02:04]

The collaboration aimed to provide a solution to the logistical challenges of deporting migrants, particularly those from volatile regions like Venezuela, where the Venezuelan government was largely resistant to accepting deportees.

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The Case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia: A Wrongful Deportation

Ashley Lopez introduces the central figure of the episode, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran citizen residing in Maryland who was wrongfully deported to El Salvador due to an administrative error.

"Kilmar Abrego Garcia was one of the over 200 people that were put on those first three flights from the US to El Salvador to the mega prison known as Secot."
— Ximena Bustillo [03:18]

Abrego Garcia's deportation stemmed from a misapplication of immigration procedures. Despite having successfully argued for withholding of removal in 2019—claiming persecution and potential gang violence in El Salvador—he was erroneously sent abroad.

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Legal Complexities and Supreme Court Intervention

The episode navigates the convoluted landscape of U.S. immigration law, elucidated by Ximena Bustillo. Immigration proceedings involve determining an individual's removability and assessing any available relief from deportation, such as asylum claims.

"In immigration court... Abrego Garcia went through the immigration court process in 2019. During this time, a judge did find that he was removable... but he was able to successfully claim that if he was returned to El Salvador, he could be persecuted."
— Ximena Bustillo [04:06]

Recently, the Supreme Court mandated the Trump administration to "facilitate" Garcia's return, a directive met with resistance and reinterpretation by administration officials. Frank Ordonez explains the administration's stance that the ruling pertains to foreign policy, thereby limiting judicial oversight.

"The Trump administration is basically kind of playing footsie with the court's orders... they're stretching it to a degree."
— Frank Ordonez [08:46]

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Responses from El Salvador and the U.S. Administration

In a joint press conference at the White House, President Bukele fiercely denied any wrongdoing regarding Garcia's deportation, emphasizing El Salvador's commitment to safety and rejecting claims of harboring terrorists.

"How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States?... We're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our country."
— Nayib Bukele [06:14]

Conversely, U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi asserted that if El Salvador sought Garcia's return, the U.S. would "facilitate it" by providing logistical support, such as a plane. This contradictory stance underscores the tension between judicial orders and executive actions.

"...if El Salvador wanted to return him, we would facilitate it, meaning provide a plane."
— Attorney General Pam Bondi [07:44]

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Precedents and Logistical Realities

Despite bureaucratic hurdles, previous deportations have occasionally seen individuals returned shortly after arrival due to various reasons, including technicalities and foreign policy considerations.

"From those same three first flights that went to El Salvador, there were about nine people that were returned... the women were returned because at that prison secot, they don't house women."
— Ximena Bustillo [10:15]

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Implications and Future Developments

In closing, the hosts discuss the broader implications of Garcia's case and ongoing U.S.-El Salvador relations. Frank Ordonez warns that this situation could set precedents affecting hundreds of other deported individuals and strain bilateral relations.

"What happens with Abrego Garcia could have big impacts on these other cases... It also could have impacts on our relationship with El Salvador."
— Frank Ordonez [11:08]

Moreover, Ximena Bustillo highlights concerns about the administration's expedited immigration processes potentially leading to more wrongful deportations.

"...they are moving really fast on a lot of these arrests, deportations, and that could result in more mistakes in the future."
— Ximena Bustillo [12:32]

The episode concludes with the acknowledgment that the situation remains fluid, with significant legal battles and diplomatic negotiations anticipated in the coming days.

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Key Takeaways

• U.S.-El Salvador Deportation Agreement: Initiated under Trump to address immigration and gang issues, utilizing El Salvador's Secot prison to house deported individuals.

• Kilmar Abrego Garcia's Case: A wrongful deportation resulting from administrative errors, challenging the administration's handling of immigration laws.

• Legal Tensions: Supreme Court orders versus executive interpretations highlight conflicts within U.S. immigration policy execution.

• Diplomatic Strains: El Salvador's resistance to Garcia's return reflects broader challenges in U.S.-Central America relations.

• Future Outlook: Potential precedents set by this case could influence numerous other deportations and reshape immigration policy debates.

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This episode provides a comprehensive examination of a complex international and legal issue, illustrating the far-reaching consequences of immigration policies and bilateral agreements. Through in-depth analysis and firsthand accounts, The NPR Politics Podcast offers listeners a nuanced understanding of the interplay between U.S. domestic policies and foreign relations.

Transcript

[Monica]

Hi, this is Monica in Austin, Texas. I'm here with my co workers at the Texas State Capitol to teach middle school and high school girls about policymaking and advocacy.

[Ashley Lopez]

This podcast was recorded at 1:04pm Eastern Time on Tuesday, April 15, 2025.

[Monica]

Things may have changed by the time that you listen to this, but we'll still be serving girls in Texas. Do you want to tell them why?

[Frank Ordonez]

Because girls are powerful.

[Ashley Lopez]

Aww. Oh, that's really cool. That's awes. Love it.

[Frank Ordonez]

Way to go, Monica.

[Ashley Lopez]

My fellow Austinites. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Monica]

I'm Ximena Bustillo, and I cover immigration policy.

[Frank Ordonez]

And I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Ashley Lopez]

And today on the show, we're looking at the growing relationship between El Salvador and the United States. The country's president, Nayib Bukele visited the White House yesterday, and the two countries have an agreement where some people deported from the US Will be housed at a prison in El Salvador. Frankly, Franco, this relationship has been in the news a lot these last few weeks. I kinda wanna just start with the basics, though. How did this agreement start and why did it start in the first place?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, I'll go back even farther. I mean, Trump's signature issue is obviously immigration, and he's long been looking for allies to help him with border policy, taking in migrants. And during the campaign, this latest campaign, he promised to go after gang members. He spent a lot of time talking about the Venezuelan gang trend, Magua, and promised to, you know, change rules so that they could be more easily deported, and named him a terrorist organization, for example. So once in office, he signed an order allowing him to use this obscure law, it's called the Alien Enemies act, to deport gang members. But again, he obviously needed somewhere for them to go. And that's where Bukele kind of came into the picture.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Well, why him? Like, what is it about Bukele that sort of prompted this relationship in the first place?

[Frank Ordonez]

Well, I mean, the challenge, again, is where to send them. I mean, many of these migrants are from Venezuela. And their relationship with Venezuela is not the greatest. The Venezuelan government has mostly, not always, but mostly refused the entry of migrants deported from the US Though they've accepted some. And Bukele is a very key ally of Trump. He has built a reputation in El Salvador as well and across the region of, you know, housing gang members in this mega prison in El Salvador. And he agreed to house alleged gang members from the US who were deported using this old law, the Alien Enemies Act. And, you know, this relation keeps going. Trump's talking about expanding it, sending more migrants, building more prisons. I mean, he's even floated the idea of sending some US Convicts there. But there are, you know, really big questions about the legality of that.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. Well, Jimena, let's talk about someone who has been at the center of this deal between the US And El Salvador, Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He's a citizen of El Salvador, but he's been living in Maryland, and he was wrongfully deported, even according to administration officials. Broadly. What can you tell me about what happened here and how he ended up back in El Salvador in the first place?

[Monica]

Kilmar Abrego Garcia was one of the over 200 people that were put on those first three flights from the US to El Salvador to the mega prison known as Secot. He was not supposed to be taken to El Salvador, Salvador, but administration officials, even Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, say that there was a, quote, administrative error in their back end that resulted in him being arrested, detained, moved across detention facilities, and then eventually put on a flight that he should have never been on.

[Ashley Lopez]

What was Abrego Garcia's immigration status at the time? Like, how is it that he was even able to be even erroneously lifted from.

[Monica]

From the US So immigration courts are really complicated. I think a lot of people think that it's you are either granted status or you're not granted status and you're removed from the country, but it's actually not that black and white. So a really good way to think about it is in immigration court, when you go through immigration proceedings, there's two questions that judges need to find answers to. The first is if you are even removable from the country to begin with. So Abrego Garcia went through the immigration court process in 2019. During this time, a judge did find that he was removable. He had entered the country illegally. But then the second question is, is there any relief to prevent someone from being removed? And that's how you get things like asylum claims. And there are various arguments that people get a chance to make even if they. A judge decides that they are removable. So Abrego Garcia was able to make a claim for something that's called withholding of removal. Withholding means that you're withheld, like your removal does not actually happen. And he was able to successfully claim in front of a judge that if he was returned to El Salvador, he could be persecuted, he could face violence, particularly from gangs in El Salvador. So what happens then is you're in a little bit of a limpo. There is no significant, significant pathway to something like a green card. Now, his lawyer told me that he did have a work permit. So, you know, the judge decided he could not be deported to El Salvador. If the government wanted to pursue deportation proceedings to, let's say, a third country, they could do that. But he was granted permission to be in the United States.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Okay. Well, let's take a quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna talk about the latest in his case. And we're back. So, yesterday in the White House, President Trump and President Bukele were asked about the possibility that Garcia would be returned to the U.S. here's how Bukele responded.

[Nayib Bukele]

I mean, the question is preposterous. How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States? I don't have the power to return him to the United States.

[Monica]

But you could release him inside El Salvador.

[Nayib Bukele]

Yeah, but I'm not releasing. I mean, we're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our country. We just turned the murder capital of the world into the safest country of the Western hemisphere. And you want us to go back into the releasing criminals so we can go back to being the murder capital of the world? That's not going to happen.

[Ashley Lopez]

Franco, what has been the administration's reasons for saying Brego Garcia can't be returned to the US So far?

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, it's kind of evolved quite a bit over time. First, they argued that the lower courts had no authority to call for his return. They also, while acknowledging that he was mistakenly sent to El Salvador, they kind of downplayed it and said it was just a paperwork issue and that he actually is an MS.13 member. Again, his lawyer says he's not. Now they're arguing that this is a foreign policy matter and that the courts have no jurisdiction over U.S. foreign policy and that they can't force El Salvador to return Abrego Garcia, that it's up to Bukele. But as you just heard, Bukele has no interest in doing that. But from the White House standpoint, it just changes quite a bit.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And Ximena, an important wrinkle in all this is that the Supreme Court ordered the administration to, quote, facilitate his return. Why does the administration think that that's, like, open to interpretation?

[Monica]

So yesterday, during that same press conference at the White House, Attorney General Pam Bondi told reporters that if El Salvador wanted to return him, you know, she says, we would facilitate it, meaning provide a plane. Now, that's the same, like, few minutes also where you hear President Bukele say that they can't return him at the same time. So the stories are also a little bit confusing there over who has that authority. But administration officials are pretty united in that the courts should not have anything to do with foreign policy. They have been pretty in line with that, and that's how they've interpreted the ruling. Now in a court filing that was issued by Abrego Garcia's lawyers today, they are that the government should at least be required to request the release of Abrego Garcia, and that to date, it has not done so. Meaning that the Trump administration has not put in a formal ask to El Salvador.

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, like, when I talk to lawyers about this, they tell me that the Trump administration is basically kind of playing footsie with the court's orders. They're pushing it as far as they can, kind of using deniability, just kind of playing around so that they can say that they didn't. Obviously facilitate is kind of a nuanced word. What does it mean? And they're, you know, they're stretching it to, to a degree. So I think that is something definitely that we're going to be need to watch. Like, how does the court force this? But it's been very clear on this case, as well as other cases, that the Trump administration, especially when it deals with immigration, that they're willing to kind of stretch that language as much as possible to kind of fit whatever interests they have or that they argue is in the national interest of the US.

[Monica]

And it's a lot of language that might not sound like it means something, but legally it ultimately does. Right. So having the power to return someone, being able to facilitate something like all of those verbs ultimately have some legal meaning or some legal argument that is up to interpretation, being fought out in the courts. But it gets really complicated in terms of who actually bears the responsibility and who actually has the mechanisms to follow.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. And I think it's worth mentioning that even though the administration is making this sound like it would be such a heavy lift, there have been folks who were sent to El Salvador who have already been returned. Right. Like, logistically, this has already been worked out in some way.

[Monica]

Correct. So from those same three first flights that went to El Salvador, there were about nine people that were returned, eight women and one Nicaraguan man. The women were returned because at that prison secot, they don't house women. And so Bukele sent the women back almost that same night. And then the Nicaraguan man, according to other media reports, was returned because Bukele said that it would harm other relations with other Central American countries if he was to house other nationals from those countries. And so there is a precedent for sending people back that the United States sent in for logistical reasons, for technical reasons, and for foreign policy reasons as well.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah. Well, before we wrap things up, I want to know what you guys are going to be watching for in the days to come.

[Frank Ordonez]

I mean, the relationship with Bukele and Trump is the kind that where if Trump asked for Alvrego Garcia to come back or any of the migrants to come back, I find it very hard to believe that Bukele would not comply and do so. So this case is not over. But it also has huge, huge implications on so many other cases of the 200 migrants that were set before. The American Civil Liberties Union has filed suit against the use of the Alien Enemies act to, to deport them. And they're arguing that, one, it's already wrong to deport people without due process. But it's another thing when the US Is not willing to correct its mistakes. So what happens with Abrego Garcia could have big impacts on these other cases. The ACLU says others were wrongly deported. So this would have impacts. It also could have impacts on fruit your relationship with El Salvador. We're just talking earlier about Trump wanting to expand this. So this would have an impact on that as well.

[Monica]

I also agree with Franco that there are a lot of implications as to the way that the government is handling this case. Could be indicative of how it handles other cases. And experts say the administration is moving really fast. They wanted to move really fast. They are moving really fast on a lot of these arrests, deportations, and that could result in more mistakes in the future.

[Ashley Lopez]

Yeah, lots to keep up on. All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. I am Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

[Monica]

I'm Ximena Bustillo, and I cover immigration policy.

[Frank Ordonez]

And I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House.

[Ashley Lopez]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.