Trump vs. Newsom: Breaking Down the Politics of the L.A. Protests

Summary

The NPR Politics Podcast: Trump vs. Newsom - Breaking Down the Politics of the L.A. Protests

Release Date: June 10, 2025
Host: Sarah McCammon
Guest: Guy Marzirati, Politics Correspondent at KQED, San Francisco

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1. Escalation of Protests in Los Angeles

The episode opens with a discussion on the intensifying protests in Los Angeles against immigration raids orchestrated by the Trump administration. These protests have now extended into their fifth day, drawing significant attention from both political leaders and the public.

Key Points:

• Deployment of National Guard: President Donald Trump has ordered an additional 2,000 National Guard troops and 700 U.S. Marines to Los Angeles in response to the ongoing protests. This move marks a significant escalation in the federal response to civil unrest.

• Law Enforcement Measures: Reports indicate that law enforcement has employed tear gas and rubber bullets to manage the crowds. However, the intensity of these measures varies, with Monday's demonstrations being quieter compared to Sunday’s larger gatherings.

  Domenico Montanaro (04:10): "Shame on you."
  This chant echoed by multiple speakers signifies the deep emotions surrounding the protests and the federal response.

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2. Legal Challenge by Governor Gavin Newsom

Governor Gavin Newsom has taken a stand against the federalization of the National Guard, resulting in a lawsuit against the Trump administration.

Key Points:

• Basis of the Lawsuit: The lawsuit hinges on two main arguments:
  1. Lack of Notification and Consent: Trump did not inform or seek consent from Newsom before mobilizing the National Guard in California. The relevant law requires that such orders be processed through the governor.
  2. Justification for Deployment: The president must demonstrate an invasion, rebellion, or a situation where law enforcement cannot be maintained by regular forces. There is debate over whether the current protests in LA meet these stringent criteria.

  Guy Marzirati (02:10): "The language is gonna have to be hashed out and to what extent Newsom needed to be consulted..."

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3. Public Opinion on Immigration Policies

Public sentiment plays a crucial role in shaping the strategies of both Trump and Newsom regarding immigration enforcement.

Key Points:

• Support for Trump's Policies: A CBS News poll revealed that 54% of Americans approve of Trump's deportation policies, indicating a slim majority in favor of stricter immigration measures.

  Domenico Montanaro (04:21): "...54% of people approve of Trump's deportation policies, which is in line with a lot of what we've seen in some other polls."

• Shifts in Public Opinion: Since 2020, there has been a noticeable shift towards favoring reduced immigration, aligning closely with sentiments observed post-9/11 during heightened border security concerns.

  Montanaro (04:21): "Now we have 55% of people, according to Gallup, saying that they think immigration needs to be decreased in the country."

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4. Governor Newsom's Political Maneuvering and 2028 Ambitions

Governor Newsom's approach to handling the immigration crisis and his interactions with Trump have significant implications for his political future, particularly his presidential aspirations in 2028.

Key Points:

• Balancing Act: Newsom has oscillated between a confrontational stance against Trump and more conciliatory approaches, such as launching a podcast featuring right-wing voices, which drew criticism from the progressive wing of his party.

  Guy Marzirati (06:04): "He launched this podcast where he was bringing on more right wing voices that got a lot of criticism from folks on the left."

• Public Perception: Surveys indicate that many California voters perceive Newsom as prioritizing his presidential ambitions over effective governance, with a notable split in opinion even among Democrats.

  Marzirati (07:26): "There was a poll recently that found not only do a majority of voters say Newsom's focusing more on doing things that will benefit him as a candidate than actually focus on governing."

• Policy Shifts: In response to budget deficits, Newsom is proposing cuts to Medicaid for undocumented residents, which paradoxically positions him as both a strict immigration enforcer and a defender of undocumented communities within the state.

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5. The Strategic Conflict Between Trump and Newsom

The ongoing clash between Trump and Newsom is not just about immediate policy disagreements but also serves broader political strategies for both leaders.

Key Points:

• Mutually Assured Distraction: Both Trump and Newsom benefit from the confrontation by diverting public attention from other pressing issues, such as California's budget deficits.

  Marzirati (07:26): "...this relationship with Trump as like, mutually assured distraction, confrontation."

• Potential for Escalation: There's concern that Trump's aggressive stance could lead to further escalations, potentially justifying more extensive federal intervention in local matters.

  Marzirati (10:55): "Trump is making is to escalate in a way that could then potentially preclude more escalation or justify it..."

• Political Risks: While Trump risks alienating moderate supporters with heavy-handed tactics, Democrats, led by Newsom, risk appearing out of touch or overly radical if they fail to effectively counterbalance Trump's measures.

  Montanaro (11:47): "...if it's viewed as too heavy handed, then that could be a problem politically."

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6. Looking Ahead to 2028

As the political landscape evolves, Newsom's actions are being closely scrutinized in the context of his potential presidential run in 2028.

Key Points:

• Presidential Ambitions: California voters increasingly view Newsom as having presidential ambitions, which influences their perception of his governance.

  Marzirati (12:22): "There was a poll recently that found not only do a majority of voters say Newsom's focusing more on doing things that will benefit him as a candidate than actually focus on governing."

• Cultural Warfare: Newsom’s approach aligns with his identity as a "prolific culture warrior," engaging in high-profile battles over social issues to bolster his national profile.

  Marzirati (12:41): "He is one of the most prolific culture warriors in national politics..."

• Navigating Political Terrain: Balancing his policy positions to appease both progressive and moderate factions within the Democratic Party remains a critical challenge for Newsom as he positions himself for future leadership roles.

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Conclusion

The clash between President Trump and Governor Gavin Newsom over immigration enforcement and the handling of protests in Los Angeles highlights the intricate dance of federal and state politics. Trump's aggressive deployment of federal troops underscores his commitment to stringent immigration policies, which resonate with a slim majority of Americans but carry the risk of political overreach. Meanwhile, Newsom's responses reflect his delicate balancing act between confronting federal overreach and maintaining support within his party, all while eyeing a potential presidential run.

As these dynamics unfold, the political strategies adopted by both leaders will have significant implications for national discourse on immigration, state-federal relations, and the evolving landscape of American politics leading up to the 2028 elections.

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This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the NPR Politics Podcast episode titled "Trump vs. Newsom: Breaking Down the Politics of the L.A. Protests." Notable quotes have been included with appropriate speaker attribution and timestamps to provide depth and context.

Transcript

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[Rebecca]

Hi, this is Rebecca. And I just got to watch my 11 year old score his first touc in his rec football league.

[Sarah McCammon]

This show was recorded at 1:16pm Eastern Time on Tuesday, June 10, 2025.

[Rebecca]

Things may have changed by the time you hear this. Enjoy the show.

[Sarah McCammon]

Congrats on the touchdown. So fun seeing those milestones.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I know, right? That's it takes me back to my youth. I didn't actually play football, but you had a youth.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon, I cover politics.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

Protests against immigration raids in Los Angeles stretched into their fifth day on Tuesday callback.

[Domenico Montanaro]

They're doing tear gas right now.

[Jake Kalik]

Shame on you.

[Sarah McCammon]

Shame on you.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Shame on you.

[Sarah McCammon]

As the White House sends even more troops to the city to address the unrest that's setting up a continued clash between President Trump and California Governor Gavin Newsom. Joining us to talk about the politics of all of this is Guy Marzirati. He's a politics correspondent at San Francisco member station kqed. Welcome to the politics podcast, Guy.

[Guy Marzirati]

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

[Sarah McCammon]

So let's start with the news. Last night, President Trump ordered an additional 2,000 National Guard troops and 700 U.S. marines to Los Angeles. Meanwhile, other anti ice protests have kicked off across the country in response to Trump's immigration crackdown. And Governor Newsom in California has sued the Trump administration over the federalization of the National Guard troops. Guy, let's just start there. Can you tell us about that lawsuit?

[Guy Marzirati]

Yeah. So the lawsuit really rests on two arguments from Newsom and from California's Attorney General Rob Bonta. The first is that Trump did not notify Newsom or get his consent to mobilize the National Guard in California. They point to language in a law specifically saying that these orders have to go, quote, through the governor. That language is gonna have to be hashed out and to what extent Newsom needed to be consulted on this. But then the second piece is that same law that Trump is using to justify this action really lays out that the president needs an invasion, a rebellion or a situation where he or she can't enforce the law with regular forces. And I think, as we can talk about, that is gonna be contested, whether what we're seeing in Los Angeles justifies the President taking this movement.

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, and that is a big question. I mean, Guy, we should be clear, you're based in San Francisco, so you haven't been on the ground at these protests. But what are you hearing from people in LA about the size and scope of this?

[Guy Marzirati]

Yeah, I mean, you know, from our great team of reporters who have been out there, I think what we've heard is protests last night, Monday, generally quieter than demonstrations on Sunday. You did still see reports of, you know, clashes with a few dozen people downtown Los Angeles between protesters and law enforcement. Law enforcement did use tear gas, rubber bullets to try to control the crowds. But I would say, you know, from folks I've talked to in Los Angeles, they don't put this on the same level as just, you know, larger celebrations or kind of civic events that we've seen within the city. There was this one political strategist that I talked to on Monday who actually lives in downtown la, and he said, you know, if you put this on the Lakers win a championship scale, if that's a 10, the celebration after the Lakers win the NBA Finals, he said, this is like a three or three and a half.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Domenico, this seems like a fight that the White House is. Is pretty eager to have. I think it's fair to say. The President called in the National Guard. And we talked about on the show yesterday how unusual, almost unprecedented it is to do this in this way. Is public opinion on the Trump administration's side when it comes to these immigration raids?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, certainly more so than a lot of his economic policies, but his economic policies are very much underwater. So, you know, there was a pol over the weekend from CBS News that found that 54% of people approve of Trump's deportation policies, which is in line with a lot of what we've seen in some other polls. 54% now, we shouldn't say is, like, very popular or a huge majority, but it is a slim majority and higher than some of his other policies. So that's why you see Trump want to move a little bit more on, you know, pushing forward with these immigration policies and deportation policies. We also know that Republicans are more trusted on immigration than Democrats have been. A lot of polls have been showing. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we've seen this big shift in public opinion on whether or not people think that immigration needs to be increased. Or decreased. There was a big switch in around 2020 into the the last few years where we saw increased border crossings, where now we have 55% of people, according to Gallup, saying that they think immigration needs to be decreased in the country. Only on level with what we'd seen in 2001 after 9, 11 and when there was a similar number of border crossings. Of course, border crossings have come down some, but Trump's pitch on immigration certainly hit the right time with the public.

[Sarah McCammon]

Now, both of you have been covering the politics of immigration for Democrats and the split between the more progressive and the more moderate wings of the Democratic Party. Guy, what does that look like for Newsom right now?

[Guy Marzirati]

Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen Newsom try to, you know, take some pains in navigating this relationship with Trump. And it's evolved really throughout the year with big ramifications in how he's viewed by the Democratic base. He came, you know, right after the election, called a special session of the state legislature to try to confront Trump and budget money in the state budget to fight Trump in court. That kind of changed after the fires in L. A where Newsom took on more of kind of a conciliatory approach towards the president. Then he launched this podcast where he was bringing on more right wing voices that got a lot of criticism from folks on the left. And then now you see Newsom kind of moving back again towards a more pugilistic stance, going back and forth with Trump and his immigration czar, Tom Homan, about this, you know, idea theoretically, of officials being arrested in California, Newsom saying, bring it on. I think ultimately I've been thinking about this relationship with Trump as like, mutually assured distraction, confrontation. It can be, I think, politically advantageous for both Trump and Newsom and really provide kind of an important change of subject when they need it for the governor. That's, you know, as he's confronting this big budget deficit in California that, by the way, he's proposing to balance by cutting back on Medicaid for undocumented residents. This now puts him in a light of fighting for undocumented residents within the state.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Yeah, I was going to say, just as Trump is eager to have this, this fight over immigration, Newsom really needs to find a way to sort of endear himself to the progressive base because a lot of them have been arms folded watching his sort of about face of having previously been a champion of things like trans rights and immigrants to now having this eye on 2028 where he's taken this more moderate tone and shifted away from some of that and taken a harder line on immigration, for example. He's got to really walk that line narrowly, and having a fight with Trump doesn't hurt.

[Sarah McCammon]

Let's take a quick break. We'll talk more about this when we get back.

[Rebecca]

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[Sarah McCammon]

We've been talking about the politics around the immigration protests in California. But you know, we should be clear that there are really two separate issues here. The ICE raids and President Trump's immigration enforcement policy is one thing, and then the protests that have followed and Trump's response to them is another. Is Trump's response to this? You know, sending in the National Guard? Is that overshadowing the larger issue of immigration?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, I mean, there's certainly a risk politically for Trump to go too far. You know, just because, you know, 54% of people say that they approve of his deportation policies doesn't mean that that's the way it'll stay or that they approve of how it'll be executed. Right? I mean, I think that that's the, that's the real issue here is that people may feel like there are too many border crossings or too many people in the country illegally and they want to you know, crack down on that some. But how you do that makes a real difference. You know, a lot of people will say complete, almost unanimously in agreement that hardened criminals, for example, should be deported, but then, you know, going in broad daylight into restaurants and schools, that might be a bit different, or, you know, separating families, for example, things like that. So they do have to be a bit cautious about what their approach is. And so far, there hasn't been a lot of caution to go around.

[Guy Marzirati]

And I would say just from, you know, it seems like part of the strategy or the bet that Trump is making is to escalate in a way that could then potentially preclude more escalation or justify it, you know, and in some ways, perhaps even getting a city like LA to turn on itself, right, to have protests that in response to the escalation then get out of control and then can be pointed to as a reason, you know, to justify more enforcement. I think that's where you hear some concern from, from legal scholars that say, look, if the pretext for, for a move like this is something as simple as protests, you know, people demonstrating this in the streets with isolated cases of violence or vandalism, you know, you could ultimately end up with broader enforcement happening, you know, throughout the country or broader mobilization of the National Guard without, you know, the support of Democratic governors.

[Domenico Montanaro]

And Trump just took questions in the Oval Office where he doubled down on this strategy. You know, he basically said, if protests pop up in other cities, that we'll respond just as forcefully. So there is risk for Trump, you know, in that he might go too far. If it's viewed as too heavy handed, then that could be a problem politically. But there is also risk for Democrats, you know, looking out of touch with public opinion, looking like the party of chaos, and potentially getting painted as radical. So there's gonna be a lot that the two sides are gonna have to do to try to, you know, win over public opinion and keep it on their side.

[Sarah McCammon]

We touched on 2028amoment ago, but it is impossible to talk about Gavin Newsom, who is such a central figure in this story, without thinking about 2028. Beyond his messaging on immigration. What else are you looking for? As this plays out and as Newsom perhaps looks ahead to the next few.

[Guy Marzirati]

Years, I think California voters writ large believe that Newsom has his eye on the presidency. There was a poll recently that found not only do a majority of voters say Newsom's focusing more on doing things that will benefit him as a candidate than actually focus on governing, but even among Democrats, that question was pretty split. So I think voters, you know, by and large view Newsom as chasing the presidency. I will say, you know, for the governor, it seems like this back and forth is a lot more comfortable territory for him than, you know, trying to appease Trump or trying to reach out across the aisle. He is one of the most prolific culture warriors in national politics, really the last, you know, this century, I would argue. And this, I think, is where he feels the most comfortable politically, is kind of taking the fight to Republicans, as he did after the Dobbs decision, as he, you know, attempted to do for Joe Biden on the campaign trail. I think it fits more with who Newsom is, naturally, as a politician.

[Sarah McCammon]

Lots for him to navigate at least in the short term here. We're going to leave it there for today. Guy, thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

[Guy Marzirati]

Yeah, thank you for having me.

[Sarah McCammon]

Guy Marziroti is a politics correspondent with the NPR member station KQED in San Francisco. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.

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