Trump Wants Americans To Have More Babies

Summary

Summary of NPR Politics Podcast Episode: "Trump Wants Americans To Have More Babies"

Release Date: May 1, 2025
Host(s): Sarah McCammon and Asma Khalid
Guest: Lisa Hagan, NPR Reporter Covering Pronatalist Movement

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Introduction

In this episode of The NPR Politics Podcast, hosts Sarah McCammon and Asma Khalid delve into the Trump administration's pronatalist agenda—an effort to encourage American families to have more children. The discussion is enriched by insights from NPR reporter Lisa Hagan, who has been closely following the rise of pronatalist activism.

The Rise of Pronatalism in the Trump Administration

Sarah McCammon introduces the topic by highlighting Vice President J.D. Vance's outspoken support for increasing birth rates. She cites Vance's statement at the March for Life in January:

"Our society has failed to recognize the obligation that one generation has to another is a core part of living in a society to begin with. So let me say very simply, I want more babies in the United States of America." [01:19]

Additionally, President Trump has expressed his desire to become the "fertilization president," a term emphasizing his commitment to boosting the nation's birth rate. Frank Trump echoed this sentiment at CPAC 2023:

"We will support baby boomers and we will support baby bonuses for a new baby boom. How does that sound? That sounds pretty. I want a baby boom." [04:24]

Understanding Pronatalism

Lisa Hagan explains that pronatalism is the advocacy for increased birth rates, typically embracing policies that encourage families to have more children. This movement has gained traction within right-wing circles, reacting to global trends of declining birth rates. According to Hagan:

"The term pronatalism means encouraging people to have more children... they're responding to a global trend of declining birth rates... in the US since about 2008." [02:08]

Strategies to Encourage Higher Birth Rates

The pronatalist movement proposes a range of strategies to counteract declining birth rates:

1. Financial Incentives:

   • Child Tax Credit Expansion: One prominent idea is increasing the child tax credit. Asma Khalid mentions J.D. Vance's proposal to raise it to $5,000, a significant increase aimed at providing financial support to families [03:37].

2. Policy Changes:

   • Ending No-Fault Divorce: Some activists suggest reverting to stricter divorce laws to promote family stability.
   • Reversal of Women's Civil Rights Protections: Extreme proposals include limiting women's rights in ways that critics argue could hinder gender equality [02:47].

3. Support for Assisted Reproductive Technologies:

   • IVF Access Expansion: President Trump signed an executive order in February to explore expanding access to in vitro fertilization (IVF). However, Sarah McCammon notes skepticism from demographers regarding the effectiveness of IVF in increasing overall birth rates [04:36].

4. Cultural and Symbolic Support:

   • National Recognition: Ideas range from creating national medals for mothers with multiple children to broader societal recognition of large families [02:47].

Challenges and Criticisms

Sarah McCammon brings up critiques from demographers who question the efficacy of proposed measures. For instance, expanding IVF access may not significantly boost birth rates but could allow families to delay childbearing instead [06:01].

Lisa Hagan adds that while there is a clear desire among pronatalists to increase birth rates, many proposed solutions may not address underlying societal concerns:

"People want kids. They're worried about the future... stronger social safety nets, for instance." [06:16]

The Role of Immigration

The conversation shifts to whether immigration could offset declining birth rates. Pronatalist Activist notes that the current movement rarely considers immigration as a solution, often veering into conspiratorial rhetoric about preserving white populations.

"This is a movement that... tends toward more conspiratorial thinking about white populations being, quote, unquote, replaced by immigrants." [07:11]

Asma Khalid inquires about the racial or ethnic dimensions of the movement, to which the activist responds that conferences are predominantly white and influenced by groups promoting scientific racism [07:54].

Political Spectrum and Pronatalism

While pronatalism is gaining momentum on the right, economic concerns about declining birth rates are acknowledged across the political spectrum. Pronatalist Activist points out that:

"There are legitimate economic concerns... across the political spectrum... Democrats would refer to these ideas as reproductive justice." [08:40]

Gender Roles and Family Vision

The episode explores whether pronatalists advocate for traditional gender roles or a more modern family structure. Pronatalist Activist admits the movement is varied but underscores a common belief that modern culture, influenced by factors like feminism, has disrupted family dynamics. Despite contradictions, such as supporting working mothers:

"There are educated women... ambitious women... Think of Phyllis Schlafly in the opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment." [10:08]

Policy Implementation and Future Directions

Asma Khalid raises concerns about the mismatch between pronatalist rhetoric and substantive policy changes. The administration's continued federal work mandates suggest a lack of comprehensive support for working parents, which demographers believe is crucial for increasing birth rates [11:28].

"It is hard to be a mom or dad... what policies... offer to make that a little bit easier." [12:10]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with hosts Sarah McCammon and Asma Khalid reflecting on the current state of fertility rates and the Trump administration's pronatalist agenda. They emphasize the complexity of the issue, acknowledging the desire for more children while questioning the effectiveness and inclusivity of proposed solutions.

"Look, it's smart if you start talking about it because a lot of people... feel that the current system isn't working for them." [12:10]

Lisa Hagan and the pronatalist activist join the hosts in considering the future implications of these policies and the broader societal challenges they aim to address.

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Notable Quotes

• Vice President J.D. Vance:

  "I want more babies in the United States of America." [01:19]

• Frank Trump:

  "We will support baby boomers and we will support baby bonuses for a new baby boom. How does that sound? That sounds pretty. I want a baby boom." [04:24]

• Pronatalist Activist:

  "The term pronatalism means encouraging people to have more children." [02:08]

• Lisa Hagan:

  "People want kids. They're worried about the future." [06:16]

• Pronatalist Activist:

  "This is a movement that... tends toward more conspiratorial thinking about white populations being replaced by immigrants." [07:11]

• Pronatalist Activist:

  "It's hard to pin it down... something about modern culture... has messed up the way our culture works and produces children." [10:08]

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive overview of the Trump administration's efforts to promote higher birth rates in the United States. Through expert analysis and firsthand reporting, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of pronatalism's motivations, proposed strategies, and the societal debates surrounding this contentious issue.

Transcript

[NPR Host]

There was Barbenheimer Summer, then Bratz Summer. What will this season bring? Maybe it's the season of actual good superhero movies like the Fantastic Four, Superman. For a guide to the movies and tv, we're most excited about this summer, listen to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from npr.

[Dylan]

Hi, this is Dylan from Knoxville, Tennessee, and I'm about to teach my first yoga class ever on my birthday. This podcast was recorded at 1:33pm Eastern.

[Sarah McCammon]

Time on Thursday, May 1, 2025.

[Dylan]

Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but know that each and every one of you is a gift. Okay, here's the show.

[Sarah McCammon]

You sound like a pro.

[Asma Khalid]

Actually, you know, I've never done yoga. I do Pilates, but is that a yoga thing? Sorry, I'm sounding like a total newbie. Is it like a words of affirmation thing at the end of yoga?

[Sarah McCammon]

Yeah, it's a vibe.

[Asma Khalid]

Okay. I like that. I could get it down for that. I've never tried yoga.

[Sarah McCammon]

Hey there. You're listening to the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

[Sarah McCammon]

The Trump administration wants Americans to have more babies.

[J.D. Vance]

Our society has failed to recognize the obligation that one generation has to another is a core part of living in a society to begin with. So let me say very simply, I want more babies in the United States of America.

[Sarah McCammon]

That's Vice President J.D. vance speaking at the March for Life in January. President Trump has said he wants to be the fertilization president. And that's all being cheered by activists who describe themselves as pronatalists. NPR's Lisa Hagan has been covering this movement. She's here to talk about it with us today for the first time on the podcast, I think. Welcome, Lisa.

[Lisa Hagan]

Hi.

[Pronatalist Activist]

Thanks for having me.

[Sarah McCammon]

So just to start off with what is pronatalism? What is the problem these activists are trying to solve?

[Pronatalist Activist]

So the term pronatalism means encouraging people to have more children. And it's, it's a banner that a particular right wing movement is organizing under at the moment. I was recently at a small conference put on by some activists in the movement, and they say that they're responding to a global trend of declining birth rates. And statistically speaking, we're seeing that not as many people are having the two or more children you'd need to replace the current population. That's been true in the US since about 2008, but it's been true for some other countries like Japan, Korea or Italy much longer and what do pronatalists.

[Sarah McCammon]

See as the solution to this problem?

[Pronatalist Activist]

Well, there are an incredibly wide range of suggestions from things like increasing the child tax credit and creating like a national medal for mothers who have six or more children, all the way to things like ending no fault divorce and ending civil rights protections for women.

[Sarah McCammon]

Lisa, what are some of the reasons for this decline in the birth rate?

[Pronatalist Activist]

Some of the reasons that you'll hear from experts who study this sort of thing and survey people about whether or not they want to have children is they definitely do want to have children, but people are worried about being able to provide stability or opportunities or like a safe future for, for their kids that they're bringing into the world. So that's what you see sort of across the board.

[Sarah McCammon]

And Asma, beyond saying that they want more babies, what are members of the Trump administration saying about how they might actually try to achieve that?

[Asma Khalid]

So one idea that has been floating around is this idea of an expansion of, say, the child tax credit. That's one way of looking at it. Some people would also call it a baby bonus. But, you know, the child tax credit is something that the government provides to many families who have children. And J.D. vance spoke about this idea even during the campaign cycle, you know, talking about increasing it to $5,000, which would be a substantial change. Now, look, he's gotten some criticism from folks on the left who say that he skipped a vote in the Senate that would have expanded and raised the child tax credit. But this is, I will say, central to, to something that we have heard from a number of people in this administration, including Frank Trump. He alluded to this idea back in 2023 at this big conference for conservatives known as CPAC.

[Frank Trump]

We will support baby boomers and we will support baby bonuses for a new baby boom. How does that sound? That sounds pretty. I want a baby boom.

[Asma Khalid]

Okay, so that is one idea. The other thing we've seen from the president, though, since he has come into office again on the second term, was an executive order he signed back in February to look into ways to expand access to ivf. And this is something, I'm curious what you hear, Lisa, but it's not something my sense is, is that everybody within this movement necessarily agrees on is ideally the best way to increase the birth rate. But that's another idea out there. And then lastly, I will say, look, there are just a lot of kids around in this administration, whether that's the vice president's children, they have traveled with them, they have brought them to official events, whether that is someone like Elon Musk, the president's advisor, bringing his child into the Oval Office. And that's not something that you traditionally see in circles of Washington.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, you mentioned ivf, and in my own reporting on that, Asma, at least one demographer I was talking to recently said it looks like in most cases, IVF doesn't increase the birth rate. It might enable people to sort of delay when they have children, but it doesn't appear to be increasing the number of children people are having. I mean, Lisa, from the research you've been doing, what are demographers saying about some of these ideas? Are any of them likely to actually work? If the goal is to reverse the birth rate decline.

[Lisa Hagan]

As we've said, people want kids. They're worried about the future. And so you will hear demographers arguing that countries want stronger social safety nets, for instance, then you.

[Sarah McCammon]

Right. So it makes you wonder if there's any reason to think that if it hasn't worked elsewhere, it would work here. But nonetheless, it's really clear that there's a desire, especially on the right, for efforts to increase the birth rate. Okay, it's time for a quick break. We'll have more in just a moment.

[NPR Host]

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[Sarah McCammon]

And we're back. Now, there's been this argument that as the birth rate declines, it could be offset by immigration. Lisa, is that an argument that's making its way into the pronatalist movement at all?

[Pronatalist Activist]

Not really. From what I've seen, this is a movement that, either explicitly or less explicitly, can tend to lean toward more conspiratorial thinking about white populations being, quote, unquote, replaced by immigrants. And so while that's not true of every pronatalist advocate, it's really been a theme of American fears about birth rates going back to, like, the early 1900s and Teddy Roosevelt.

[Asma Khalid]

Lisa, I am curious if this movement, if that conference you went to, has a dimension of race or ethnicity behind any of this. And the reason I ask that is anecdotally, a number of immigrant families tend to have a lot of children. That's just sort of culturally the norm amongst people I know friends and family.

[Pronatalist Activist]

I think there's some mixed data, first of all, about what happens when immigrants move to a new country in terms of the changes to their fertility. But overall, I would say that this is at least at the conference that I was at. This was a small conference, but it was almost all white people. Absolutely. And it's important to say that one of the major sponsors of this conference that I went to, for instance, is a hard right book publisher. They publish current works today that promote ideas like scientific racism. This is a false idea that things like intelligence or inherent criminality are baked into certain races. That gives you a sense of. Of some of the themes that are running through this movement.

[Sarah McCammon]

You know, Lisa, one thing I'm wondering is, is this just a concern on the right, or are there folks on the left and the center who also worry about the implications of falling birth rates?

[Pronatalist Activist]

There are totally legitimate economic concerns that you'll see being discussed across the political spectrum. You know, you're talking about an aging labor force, what happens there, challenges to our Social Security system, things like that. But I think a lot of the left would argue that supporting people having the size and style of families they want is something they'd refer to as reproductive justice. And Democrats also would say that everything from forgiving college loan debt to funding childcare or environmental protections are all policies that would help families survive and grow. So it's really about the label that you're putting on these ideas.

[Sarah McCammon]

It seems like there are sort of different camps within what you might call the pronatalist movement, or certainly on the right, when it comes to how to think about gender roles, family formation, and the birth of children. And so I'm wondering, you know, do most pronatalists want a return to traditionalist gender roles, to this idea that, you know, women should be in the home, or are they imagining something different, something more in line with some of the highly visible working moms we see in the White House now, like Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, who, I think, as Osma mentioned, you know, brings her baby to work. What's the vision of society that pronatalists are trying to create?

[Pronatalist Activist]

I think it's hard to pin it down. There's definitely a spectrum, although across that spectrum is an idea that something about modern culture, whether you attribute that to feminism or, you know, equal rights or whatever, has messed up the way that our. That our culture works and produces children. On the other hand, I will also say, you know, yes, there are lots of contradictions like the ones you're talking about that were visible at the Pronatalism Conference, there were educated women up there. There were ambitious women up there. And I think that's always been a part of some right wing movements. Think of Phyllis Schlafly in the opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment. As long as you're down for the cause, there's a willingness to have you on the team.

[Sarah McCammon]

And, you know, to that point, it seems like there's also some tension in terms of what kinds of policies we might see from the White House. Asma, you were just talking about some of the ideas that have been floated. You know, when I was talking to a demographer, a few about IVF and about some of these questions, this was a fairly conservative demographer. You know, he said one policy that is anti daedalist, that's likely to discourage people from having more children is forcing a return to work, a return to the office, because that is a policy, he said, that sort of supports working parents, particularly working moms. I mean, do you have any sense of how the White House plans to move forward here?

[Asma Khalid]

I mean, thus far there really has been a return to work mandate across the federal government, and we've seen no indication that they are wanting to change that. And so I am really curious to what degree sort of the messaging that we see from the White House matches substantive policy that helps encourage people to have more children. Look, I mean, it's hard to be a mom or dad, I think, at this moment, of young children. And I wonder what policies either Republican or Democrat, is substantively offering to make that a little bit easier. But politically, look, it's smart if you start talking about it because a lot of people, I would argue, regardless of their policies, feel that the current system isn't working for them.

[Sarah McCammon]

And we're seeing that reflected in the fertility rate. All right. Well, we're going to leave it there. Lisa Hagan, thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us.

[Pronatalist Activist]

Thank you.

[Sarah McCammon]

I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.

[Asma Khalid]

And I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

[Sarah McCammon]

And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.